Used to be Christian, now atheist/other

[koshergrl]

I'm not being arrogant, I'm being accurate and direct.

Having said that, you have no standing to judge me in my walk. As an atheist dead in sin, you are incapable of judgement of the saved. Your unsaved status means you haven't the Holy Spirit, and therefore lack the standing to effectively wield the Word.

 

[Underhill]

I'm not being arrogant, I'm being accurate and direct.

Having said that, you have no standing to judge me in my walk. As an atheist dead in sin, you are incapable of judgement of the saved. Your unsaved status means you haven't the Holy Spirit, and therefore lack the standing to effectively wield the Word.

Mathew 7

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

 

[koshergrl]

You can spout the bible all day long; you lack the ability to comprehend it, and you lack the authority to judge me.

BTW...Judge not is talking about Christians judging each other. Not non-believers judging Christians. And certainly it isn't referring to our authority over those who reject Christ...we do have the authority to judge you, and we will be the judges on judgement day.

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs...neither cast ye your pearls before swine..."

Guess who the dogs and swine are? Not the saved.

 

[Underhill]

You can spout the bible all day long; you lack the ability to comprehend it, and you lack the authority to judge me.

BTW...Judge not is talking about Christians judging each other. Not non-believers judging Christians. And certainly it isn't referring to our authority over those who reject Christ...we do have the authority to judge you, and we will be the judges on judgement day.

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs...neither cast ye your pearls before swine..."

Guess who the dogs and swine are? Not the saved.

Wow, that is some seriously fucked up doctrine. Jesus taught something completely different. But what the fuck did he know?

 

[koshergrl]

That is precisely what Jesus taught. You can't comprehend it because you're one of the swine, one of the dogs.

 

[Delia]

And you are nausea-inducing, literally.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, that is a common side effect of those who interact with demons, when faced with the authority of Christ and his followers.

 

[koshergrl]

Matt 7:6:"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."

Prov 23 Do not speak to a fool, for he will scorn the wisdom of your words.

Prov 26:4: Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Rev 22:15: Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

""Dogs" signify people who spurn, oppose, and abuse that doctrine; people of special sourness and malignity of temper, who meet it like growling and quarrelsome curs, Philippians 3:2; 2 Peter 2:22; Revelation 22:15. "Swine" denote those who would trample the precepts underfoot; people of impurity of life; those who are corrupt, polluted, profane, obscene, and sensual; those who would not know the value of the gospel, and who would tread it down as swine would pearls, 2 Peter 2:22; Proverbs 11:22. The meaning of this proverb, then, is, do not offer your doctrine to those violent and abusive people who would growl and curse you; nor to those especially debased and profligate who would not perceive its value, would trample it down, and would abuse you. This verse furnishes a beautiful instance of what has been called the "introverted parallelism."

http://bible.cc/matthew/7-6.htm

 

[koshergrl]

You can spout the bible all day long; you lack the ability to comprehend it, and you lack the authority to judge me.

BTW...Judge not is talking about Christians judging each other. Not non-believers judging Christians. And certainly it isn't referring to our authority over those who reject Christ...we do have the authority to judge you, and we will be the judges on judgement day.

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs...neither cast ye your pearls before swine..."

Guess who the dogs and swine are? Not the saved.

Wow, that is some seriously fucked up doctrine. Jesus taught something completely different. But what the fuck did he know?

Jesus taught exactly that:



"Yet even then, when the beam is cast out of thine own eye, Give not - That is, talk not of the deep things of God to those whom you know to be wallowing in sin. neither declare the great things God hath done for your soul to the profane, furious, persecuting wretches. Talk not of perfection, for instance, to the former; not of your experience to the latter. But our Lord does in nowise forbid us to reprove, as occasion is, both the one and the other...."

Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

 

[Underhill]

You can spout the bible all day long; you lack the ability to comprehend it, and you lack the authority to judge me.

BTW...Judge not is talking about Christians judging each other. Not non-believers judging Christians. And certainly it isn't referring to our authority over those who reject Christ...we do have the authority to judge you, and we will be the judges on judgement day.

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs...neither cast ye your pearls before swine..."

Guess who the dogs and swine are? Not the saved.

Wow, that is some seriously fucked up doctrine. Jesus taught something completely different. But what the fuck did he know?

Jesus taught exactly that:



"Yet even then, when the beam is cast out of thine own eye, Give not - That is, talk not of the deep things of God to those whom you know to be wallowing in sin. neither declare the great things God hath done for your soul to the profane, furious, persecuting wretches. Talk not of perfection, for instance, to the former; not of your experience to the latter. But our Lord does in nowise forbid us to reprove, as occasion is, both the one and the other...."

Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

What does Jesus say about lying perchance?

 

[koshergrl]

Why don't you tell me? You seem to view yourself as a purveyer of the Word.

You quote it, and I'll explain to you what it really means. Oh, and point out where I've lied, while you're at it.

 

[Underhill]

Why don't you tell me? You seem to view yourself as a purveyer of the Word.

You quote it, and I'll explain to you what it really means. Oh, and point out where I've lied, while you're at it.

You have repeatedly just made shit up. Tried to inform me that I agreed with Hitler.

That is the difference between you and me. I don't claim to know everything. I don't claim to be superior. I simply point out what I believe to be the truth based upon experience and years of reading everything put in front of me.

You demean and attempt to tear down those who disagree with you. It's a sign of weakness. It's what people do when they are insecure.

 

[Delia]

Yes, that is a common side effect of those who interact with demons, when faced with the authority of Christ and his followers.

I am a christian. And you are not.

 

[koshergrl]

Why don't you tell me? You seem to view yourself as a purveyer of the Word.

You quote it, and I'll explain to you what it really means. Oh, and point out where I've lied, while you're at it.

You have repeatedly just made shit up. Tried to inform me that I agreed with Hitler.

That is the difference between you and me. I don't claim to know everything. I don't claim to be superior. I simply point out what I believe to be the truth based upon experience and years of reading everything put in front of me.

You demean and attempt to tear down those who disagree with you. It's a sign of weakness. It's what people do when they are insecure.

You're lying here.

I asked you to point out which of Hitler's statements you disagreed with. You haven't disagreed with any of them, so far.

Yes, I demean people who lie, obfuscate, and refuse to engage in meaningful discussion. Or rather, I point out that they lie, obfuscate and refuse to engage in meaningful discussion...which they, in turn, view as *demeaning*. Sorry. If you have an argument, make it. So far, all you've offered are lies and logical fallacy. Keep trying though. Maybe you'll catch on.

 

[logical4u]

Don't let yourself get turned off to Religion just because of what American right wingers have done to it. Jesus never believed in "Feed the poor and they will breed" or "let him die". Jesus would never promote making disaster victims pay to be rescued. Jesus would promote school lunches for poor children, not try to end them. The American right wing has ruined Christianity in this country. It's not even recognizable.

Can you buy a "vaginal probe" on eBay?

No God just wiped people out with plagues and floods.

And if you believe in that myth of the holy trinity Jesus, and God were the same guy.

While I have no juvenile mystical beliefs (like Noah's Ark or the earth being only thousands of years old), I do believe there is a spiritualism that connects mankind in a way that transcends the mundane, and this is evidenced in the way Americans help other Americans. Not the right wing of course. They believe in "let him die" and other kinds of wicked evil. They try to lie and say they don't but then elect leaders who promote such bad ill will.

The bond of mother and child. What holds communities together beyond economics. People wanting to help those of a different culture who can't even speak the same language. Republicans call the "socialism" and say it's a "bad thing".

If monetary transactions aren't involved, it's no good. The opposite of what Jesus clearly believed.

How do I know these to be true? They tell us.

Christianity is the most "generous" faith on the planet. More people have been helped by Christians than any other faith.
Communism/Socialism (faith based) gov'ts have been responsible for more deaths than all other religions, combined (USSR, Cuba, China, Cambodia, etc). They must murder, convert or subjugate all other beliefs in order for them to work (however temporary, for they will run out of other peoples' resources, eventually).

Yeshua told the man that sought to trap HIM, give to Ceasar, what is Ceasar's. HE clearly supported monetary systems and "authority". HE did not support using "HIS Father's house" as a corrupt sale place, where people would "pay" to make themselves "feel better". If you are going to talk about what Yeshua did, please use it in context, and truthfully. In Revelations, it warns about twisting the Bible for your own purposes (one of the reasons people need to read more of the Bible, so they can know when they are being manipulated).

 

[logical4u]

If Jesus had no need for money why did he ask people for tithes? Let's face it Jesus was a capitalist who asked people for venture capital so as to grow his cult.

The bolded part (my bolding), caught my attention.

CULT - Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top.

The Abrahamic religions fall prey to this. Catholicism, for example, has a Pope and a structure of Bishops and priests, each a lower level of authority with all the teaching "at the top". By definition, it is a cult.

Let me toss out Scientology here (the reason will be apparent in the next paragraph), where all its teaching comes from L Ron Hubbard (Scientology has been decreed a bona fide religion based on .... finances and headcount). I bring this up because its Leader is dead but still the teaching comes from one person at the top.

All Christianity is a cult as well under these strictures. There is a hierarchy of authority not in any way different from Scientology. Jesus is the authority who is dead, as well as the apostle Paul (who was the authority who really established the founding of Christianity as a religion). But the i]authority[/i] still comes from the "top" through these two individuals who are no more or less dead than L Ron Hubbard (except they have been dead a lot longer). That the religion confers a special status to these two authorities is of no consequence, as Scientologists confer a special status to their "spiritual leader" as well. Neither this fact nor the antiquity of the Christian folk being dead (or for that matter Mohammed or David Koresh or Jim Jones, etc.) is in anyway legitimized one over the other. BTW, each of these men have made grandious claims of self-importance, each claiming those who follow different paths are doomed to eternal torment.
Next:


a) The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Everlasting Life; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their members. This definition covers cults within all major world religions, along with those cults which have no OBVIOUS religious base such as commercial, educational and psychological cults.

All religions make these claims. Each claim to be the only way to god, that the others are wrong, and all use some form of mind control to gain and keep their members. Christianity uses heaven and hell, the concept of sin, a corrupted nature no one can escape, the requirement of a savior to ameliorate the gap between gods and men. Reincarnation is the device used by Buddhism and Hinduism, wherein the "punishment" is a repeatable life that would stress the soul in ways it stressed other in its previous life. Every religion cloaks itself under dynamics which affects commercial life (tithing for instance), educational (teaching the doctrine of the religion is inerrant even in the face of overwhelming proof contrary to the religious doctrine), and psychological (gods with a vested interest in the behaviors of men, who can see their sins, who are able to mete out justice -- all of these are severe and inescapable mental leveragings that dictate human behavior-- i.e., psychologies).
Next:

b) The group will have an ELITIST view of itself in relation to others, and a UNIQUE CAUSE.


c) THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT - everyone else is wrong. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING GOD'S WILL - everyone else is in apostasy.


d) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL.

Two points:

Yeshua is NOT dead.

Judge a faith by its fruits (what it produces). More scientists, doctors, mathematicians come from "Christian" cultures than any other faith. More charities, hospitals that are Christian based go into "other" cultures, than any other "faith based" charities. Christians welcome the "needy" from any race or religion.

All those other "cults" that claim to know the way..... check out their "fruits".

 

[Derideo_Te]

Delia, did you know that there are such things as spiritual atheists? Essentially they embrace their own innate spiritually (AKA sense of wonder) while rejecting the religious concept of a creator and everything else that requires faith and a suspension of rational thought and reason.

 

[Derideo_Te]

While I agree with your sentiment about teaching only the positive the nature of the religion itself does not allow you to ignore the negative aspects of the deity in question. It is an all or nothing proposition. Fortunately there are alternatives.