Used to be Christian, now atheist/other

[koshergrl]

You also didn't answer my question....what if you're wrong?

What if?

I cannot suspend all reason on a what if. And if there is some magic man in the sky and I have to answer to him when i die. If the way I have tried to live my life, quietly with respect, integrity and without intentionally hurting anyone isn't good enough for him then he would be n one I would bend a knee to anyway.

I believe those out for a reward who live a good life out of fear are not better than those who live a good life with no expectation of a reward.

Christians don't fear God. We live our lives to honor Him, but we don't fear him. If someone says they fear God, then they're not sure of themselves and aren't sure they are really saved. They haven't really experienced Him. I try to live a good life, but i also know i'm nowhere near perfect (and nobody is). I don't "expect" a reward.

Oh,I think we should fear God....God is perfect, righteous, and his power is infinite. He is so mighty we cannot look upon his face in our current state. And we will all be judged...I think we are wise to fear that. We know that as the saved, we will gain eternal life and it will be splendid..but we will still answer to God for our lives, and I think that will be terrifying.

 

[koshergrl]

Used to be a true believer of a mainline Protestant variety.

Agnostic deist, now.

I get agnostic - I assume deist means there is a higher power, just not of the judeo-christian variety?

They just don't acknowledge the Bible as the Word of God or Christ as his son. They believe in some sort of creator, but they prefer one they make up in their minds to the one that is documented.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Used to be a true believer of a mainline Protestant variety.

Agnostic deist, now.

I get agnostic - I assume deist means there is a higher power, just not of the judeo-christian variety?

They just don't acknowledge the Bible as the Word of God or Christ as his son. They believe in some sort of creator, but they prefer one they make up in their minds to the one that is documented.

The Bible is hardly an infallible source.

 

[rdean]

I'm interested in this subject, because one of my cousins and I are very close. We were raised in the same church background, and I remain in the church, and he is an atheist. Some of my thinking has changed from talking to him, though I won't get into specifics just yet (except to say, I don't believe he's going to hell. Of course, he doesn't believe anything happens after we die.)

Where are you at?

Don't let yourself get turned off to Religion just because of what American right wingers have done to it. Jesus never believed in "Feed the poor and they will breed" or "let him die". Jesus would never promote making disaster victims pay to be rescued. Jesus would promote school lunches for poor children, not try to end them. The American right wing has ruined Christianity in this country. It's not even recognizable.

Can you buy a "vaginal probe" on eBay?

 

[Delia]

I'm interested in this subject, because one of my cousins and I are very close. We were raised in the same church background, and I remain in the church, and he is an atheist. Some of my thinking has changed from talking to him, though I won't get into specifics just yet (except to say, I don't believe he's going to hell. Of course, he doesn't believe anything happens after we die.)

Where are you at?

Don't let yourself get turned off to Religion just because of what American right wingers have done to it. Jesus never believed in "Feed the poor and they will breed" or "let him die". Jesus would never promote making disaster victims pay to be rescued. Jesus would promote school lunches for poor children, not try to end them. The American right wing has ruined Christianity in this country. It's not even recognizable.

People should absolutely let themselves get turned off to religion. Who did Jesus rail against? "Scribes, Pharisees - hypocrites."

 

[koshergrl]

Christ established another church, however....

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm interested in this subject, because one of my cousins and I are very close. We were raised in the same church background, and I remain in the church, and he is an atheist. Some of my thinking has changed from talking to him, though I won't get into specifics just yet (except to say, I don't believe he's going to hell. Of course, he doesn't believe anything happens after we die.)

Where are you at?

Don't let yourself get turned off to Religion just because of what American right wingers have done to it. Jesus never believed in "Feed the poor and they will breed" or "let him die". Jesus would never promote making disaster victims pay to be rescued. Jesus would promote school lunches for poor children, not try to end them. The American right wing has ruined Christianity in this country. It's not even recognizable.

Can you buy a "vaginal probe" on eBay?

No God just wiped people out with plagues and floods.

And if you believe in that myth of the holy trinity Jesus, and God were the same guy.

 

[rdean]

I'm interested in this subject, because one of my cousins and I are very close. We were raised in the same church background, and I remain in the church, and he is an atheist. Some of my thinking has changed from talking to him, though I won't get into specifics just yet (except to say, I don't believe he's going to hell. Of course, he doesn't believe anything happens after we die.)

Where are you at?

Don't let yourself get turned off to Religion just because of what American right wingers have done to it. Jesus never believed in "Feed the poor and they will breed" or "let him die". Jesus would never promote making disaster victims pay to be rescued. Jesus would promote school lunches for poor children, not try to end them. The American right wing has ruined Christianity in this country. It's not even recognizable.

Can you buy a "vaginal probe" on eBay?

No God just wiped people out with plagues and floods.

And if you believe in that myth of the holy trinity Jesus, and God were the same guy.

While I have no juvenile mystical beliefs (like Noah's Ark or the earth being only thousands of years old), I do believe there is a spiritualism that connects mankind in a way that transcends the mundane, and this is evidenced in the way Americans help other Americans. Not the right wing of course. They believe in "let him die" and other kinds of wicked evil. They try to lie and say they don't but then elect leaders who promote such bad ill will.

The bond of mother and child. What holds communities together beyond economics. People wanting to help those of a different culture who can't even speak the same language. Republicans call the "socialism" and say it's a "bad thing".

If monetary transactions aren't involved, it's no good. The opposite of what Jesus clearly believed.

How do I know these to be true? They tell us.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Don't let yourself get turned off to Religion just because of what American right wingers have done to it. Jesus never believed in "Feed the poor and they will breed" or "let him die". Jesus would never promote making disaster victims pay to be rescued. Jesus would promote school lunches for poor children, not try to end them. The American right wing has ruined Christianity in this country. It's not even recognizable.

Can you buy a "vaginal probe" on eBay?

No God just wiped people out with plagues and floods.

And if you believe in that myth of the holy trinity Jesus, and God were the same guy.

While I have no juvenile mystical beliefs (like Noah's Ark or the earth being only thousands of years old), I do believe there is a spiritualism that connects mankind in a way that transcends the mundane, and this is evidenced in the way Americans help other Americans. Not the right wing of course. They believe in "let him die" and other kinds of wicked evil. They try to lie and say they don't but then elect leaders who promote such bad ill will.

Wow only Americans help each other? That particular characteristic was spawned from the need to survive rather than form some mystical spiritual connection.

The bond of mother and child. What holds communities together beyond economics. People wanting to help those of a different culture who can't even speak the same language. Republicans call the "socialism" and say it's a "bad thing".

The bond of mother and child is nothing but a genetically mandated behavior to ensure the survival of the species. there is nothing magic about it. In fact women have enlarged mammary glands for the same reason.

Evolutionarily speaking breasts are nothing but a representation of the buttocks which successfully resulted in face to face copulation which basically conditioned the human male to associate feelings of pleasure with the face of his partner thus ensuring that he stay with a woman and provide for them until a child was old enough to start to be independent.

If monetary transactions aren't involved, it's no good. The opposite of what Jesus clearly believed.

If Jesus had no need for money why did he ask people for tithes? Let's face it Jesus was a capitalist who asked people for venture capital so as to grow his cult.

 

[Hollie]

If Jesus had no need for money why did he ask people for tithes? Let's face it Jesus was a capitalist who asked people for venture capital so as to grow his cult.

The bolded part (my bolding), caught my attention.

CULT - Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top.

The Abrahamic religions fall prey to this. Catholicism, for example, has a Pope and a structure of Bishops and priests, each a lower level of authority with all the teaching "at the top". By definition, it is a cult.

Let me toss out Scientology here (the reason will be apparent in the next paragraph), where all its teaching comes from L Ron Hubbard (Scientology has been decreed a bona fide religion based on .... finances and headcount). I bring this up because its Leader is dead but still the teaching comes from one person at the top.

All Christianity is a cult as well under these strictures. There is a hierarchy of authority not in any way different from Scientology. Jesus is the authority who is dead, as well as the apostle Paul (who was the authority who really established the founding of Christianity as a religion). But the i]authority[/i] still comes from the "top" through these two individuals who are no more or less dead than L Ron Hubbard (except they have been dead a lot longer). That the religion confers a special status to these two authorities is of no consequence, as Scientologists confer a special status to their "spiritual leader" as well. Neither this fact nor the antiquity of the Christian folk being dead (or for that matter Mohammed or David Koresh or Jim Jones, etc.) is in anyway legitimized one over the other. BTW, each of these men have made grandious claims of self-importance, each claiming those who follow different paths are doomed to eternal torment.
Next:


a) The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Everlasting Life; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their members. This definition covers cults within all major world religions, along with those cults which have no OBVIOUS religious base such as commercial, educational and psychological cults.

All religions make these claims. Each claim to be the only way to god, that the others are wrong, and all use some form of mind control to gain and keep their members. Christianity uses heaven and hell, the concept of sin, a corrupted nature no one can escape, the requirement of a savior to ameliorate the gap between gods and men. Reincarnation is the device used by Buddhism and Hinduism, wherein the "punishment" is a repeatable life that would stress the soul in ways it stressed other in its previous life. Every religion cloaks itself under dynamics which affects commercial life (tithing for instance), educational (teaching the doctrine of the religion is inerrant even in the face of overwhelming proof contrary to the religious doctrine), and psychological (gods with a vested interest in the behaviors of men, who can see their sins, who are able to mete out justice -- all of these are severe and inescapable mental leveragings that dictate human behavior-- i.e., psychologies).
Next:

b) The group will have an ELITIST view of itself in relation to others, and a UNIQUE CAUSE.


c) THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT - everyone else is wrong. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING GOD'S WILL - everyone else is in apostasy.


d) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL.

 

[logical4u]

By the fruits produced, the tree shall be known.....
Take a good look. What fruits are produced by atheists? What fruits are produced by Christians, muslims, buddahists, hindus, etc?
IMHO, the Bible is a book of spiritual growth. There are lessons there for everyone. The OT demonstrates that the worst people can be transformed into greatness when they believe. The NT teaches us that "forgiveness" and "love" are the only ways to transform ourselves (and thru us, society). There is no other book or "faith" that comes close to the wisdom found in the Bible (many of the "self-help" books use Biblical reference, and then explain them in a secular way). I enjoy discussing what is in the Bible, and what people actually believe. Some times I point out that their beliefs are not Biblically based (as they assumed they were). Some times people give me a different perspective, and help me understand that we do not all worship the same. I think that the different denominations are similar to universities: people choose where to study based on location, style of teaching, amount of participation, etc. They are all seeking knowledge and wisdom.

Your relationship with the LORD is your own. It is for you to decide. Yeshua said that being nonchalant about faith was being "lukewarm" and HE would spit you out. If you really want some answers, I would suggest that you start with HIM. Sit down and speak to him the same way you would talk to a person with answers, in a forthright, respectful manner. Ask HIM to help you with the knowledge (a gift of the HOLY SPIRIT) you seek. If you get no response, repeat, until you are at peace (chances are that you have received your answer at that point).

May the LORD Bless you and help you in your hour of need.

 

[rdean]

No God just wiped people out with plagues and floods.

And if you believe in that myth of the holy trinity Jesus, and God were the same guy.

While I have no juvenile mystical beliefs (like Noah's Ark or the earth being only thousands of years old), I do believe there is a spiritualism that connects mankind in a way that transcends the mundane, and this is evidenced in the way Americans help other Americans. Not the right wing of course. They believe in "let him die" and other kinds of wicked evil. They try to lie and say they don't but then elect leaders who promote such bad ill will.

Wow only Americans help each other? That particular characteristic was spawned from the need to survive rather than form some mystical spiritual connection.

The bond of mother and child. What holds communities together beyond economics. People wanting to help those of a different culture who can't even speak the same language. Republicans call the "socialism" and say it's a "bad thing".

The bond of mother and child is nothing but a genetically mandated behavior to ensure the survival of the species. there is nothing magic about it. In fact women have enlarged mammary glands for the same reason.

Evolutionarily speaking breasts are nothing but a representation of the buttocks which successfully resulted in face to face copulation which basically conditioned the human male to associate feelings of pleasure with the face of his partner thus ensuring that he stay with a woman and provide for them until a child was old enough to start to be independent.

If monetary transactions aren't involved, it's no good. The opposite of what Jesus clearly believed.

If Jesus had no need for money why did he ask people for tithes? Let's face it Jesus was a capitalist who asked people for venture capital so as to grow his cult.

When you assign something to the other person that they didn't say and then argue against it, you've lost the argument.

 

[Skull Pilot]

While I have no juvenile mystical beliefs (like Noah's Ark or the earth being only thousands of years old), I do believe there is a spiritualism that connects mankind in a way that transcends the mundane, and this is evidenced in the way Americans help other Americans. Not the right wing of course. They believe in "let him die" and other kinds of wicked evil. They try to lie and say they don't but then elect leaders who promote such bad ill will.

Wow only Americans help each other? That particular characteristic was spawned from the need to survive rather than form some mystical spiritual connection.



The bond of mother and child is nothing but a genetically mandated behavior to ensure the survival of the species. there is nothing magic about it. In fact women have enlarged mammary glands for the same reason.

Evolutionarily speaking breasts are nothing but a representation of the buttocks which successfully resulted in face to face copulation which basically conditioned the human male to associate feelings of pleasure with the face of his partner thus ensuring that he stay with a woman and provide for them until a child was old enough to start to be independent.

If monetary transactions aren't involved, it's no good. The opposite of what Jesus clearly believed.

If Jesus had no need for money why did he ask people for tithes? Let's face it Jesus was a capitalist who asked people for venture capital so as to grow his cult.

When you assign something to the other person that they didn't say and then argue against it, you've lost the argument.

You didn't say for example, "How people help other people"

You specifically said , "...how Americans help other Americans..." thereby implying that the spiritual connection crap of which you speak applied to Americans and not all of humanity.

 

[Mr. H.]

Despite my falling out with the Church, I still administer Christian baptisms.
Why? Because I can.

My middle name is John, but I must admit that I did not stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.

 

[koshergrl]

I get agnostic - I assume deist means there is a higher power, just not of the judeo-christian variety?

They just don't acknowledge the Bible as the Word of God or Christ as his son. They believe in some sort of creator, but they prefer one they make up in their minds to the one that is documented.

The Bible is hardly an infallible source.

Yes, it is. You just can't wrap your mind around it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

They just don't acknowledge the Bible as the Word of God or Christ as his son. They believe in some sort of creator, but they prefer one they make up in their minds to the one that is documented.

The Bible is hardly an infallible source.

Yes, it is. You just can't wrap your mind around it.

No, you just believe fairy tales are reality

 

[koshergrl]

No, I really don't.

 

[Underhill]

By the fruits produced, the tree shall be known.....
Take a good look. What fruits are produced by atheists? What fruits are produced by Christians, muslims, buddahists, hindus, etc?

So you are claiming that good things only come from christians? Really?

 

[koshergrl]

Nope, try again. Read the words. The words mean something.

 

[Delia]

By the fruits produced, the tree shall be known.....
Take a good look. What fruits are produced by atheists? What fruits are produced by Christians, muslims, buddahists, hindus, etc?

So you are claiming that good things only come from christians? Really?

Yes, he is. It's not true, but it is what he's claiming.

Apparently he never heard of Thomas Edison, Helen Keller or Marie Curie (among many, many others.)