Used to be Christian, now atheist/other

[ArmyCowboy]

You also didn't answer my question....what if you're wrong?

If an atheist is wrong they're wrong.

Are you suggesting atheists pay some hypocritical lip service to the christianist god as some half-assed attempt to get into heave?

You either believe or you don't. If you don't believe, I'd imagine a god would be able to see through your charade.

If ANYONE is wrong, they're wrong.
And no, i'm not suggesting anything of the kind, like you said...God would know, you can't fool Him. My question to Skull was what if you're wrong about God. What if you die and find out God was always here, there is an eternal afterlife, and when you die you find this out and there's nothing you can do to change the outcome? I've asked this question to several people and never get an answer (if i do it's just a smart ass comment). I think some people are afraid to answer it....

Then you were wrong.

I mean what if you're christian and you die and find out the muslims or the hindus were right.

What then?

You make your decisions and you move on and live with them.

 

[Caroljo]

You also didn't answer my question....what if you're wrong?

If an atheist is wrong they're wrong.

Are you suggesting atheists pay some hypocritical lip service to the christianist god as some half-assed attempt to get into heave?

You either believe or you don't. If you don't believe, I'd imagine a god would be able to see through your charade.

Yes. And on that note I have one more point to make.

I am a good guy. Donate to charity, help out those in my community. Spend a heck of a lot more time and money for the good of others than most I grew up with in the church.

And yet, the fact that I don't believe means god is going to send me to hell for all eternity. So the christian pedophile, sitting in prison for raping 15+ kids goes to heaven, because he believes. The fucker in the next cell who murdered his wife has accepted christ too, so he's bound for the pearly gates.

But I go to hell for beating off as a teenager and lying to my mother about where I was on a friday night in 1994.

Sounds like a just god.

What believers fail to see is that there is a reason religions are set up this way. They couldn't care less what you have done. They couldn't care less how many people you hurt. What they care about is attendance. What they care about is tithing.

So disbelief is the ultimate sin. While murder and rape, while bad, are forgivable. Does that make any sense? Why would a just and loving god, who really cares about people, care less about the ultimate sins than the simple and easily understandable lack of faith which hurts no one?

It's absurd and makes clear the true motives of the church.

I understand what you're saying, it doesn't make sense, to us. And i've NEVER told someone they're going to hell because of their lifestyle or anything else, that's between them and God.

Disbelief is NOT the ultimate sin. The ultimate sin is blasphemy against God.
And you're right, if a murderer or rapist has REALLY turned to God and honestly believes in Him, and they ask for forgiveness, yes God will forgive them. They won't get away with "lip service", God knows their heart. Just like he knows your heart...He knows you're a good person and have done good things. I don't believe someone like you would go to hell. I just can't believe it....just like my parents were wonderful people, but they didn't go to Church and i don't know if they did believe (i don't think so).

Truthfully...NOBODY knows exactly what happens after we die, where we go....maybe there's different "layers" of Heaven, maybe not everyone goes to the same place...depending on how you led your life on earth. There's lots of "maybe's"....I just know in my heart God is there...the rest will all be a surprise!

 

[koshergrl]

I refused to be indoctrinated.

I stopped attending church and catechism when I was in 3rd grade.

I was asking too many questions when some creepy old priest grabbed my by the face and yelled, "You are not here to ask questions. You are here to listen and believe!"

I smacked his hand and walked out never to return to the cult.

That's unfortunate...but you do realize that now your understanding and attitude towards church are stalled at third grade? You're basing your rejection of it on one incident that took place decades ago.

 

[Underhill]

You also didn't answer my question....what if you're wrong?

If an atheist is wrong they're wrong.

Are you suggesting atheists pay some hypocritical lip service to the christianist god as some half-assed attempt to get into heave?

You either believe or you don't. If you don't believe, I'd imagine a god would be able to see through your charade.

If ANYONE is wrong, they're wrong.
And no, i'm not suggesting anything of the kind, like you said...God would know, you can't fool Him. My question to Skull was what if you're wrong about God. What if you die and find out God was always here, there is an eternal afterlife, and when you die you find this out and there's nothing you can do to change the outcome? I've asked this question to several people and never get an answer (if i do it's just a smart ass comment). I think some people are afraid to answer it....

I will go to hell.

Simple enough for you?

But if I am wrong you wasted your entire life, your only life, on a fairy tail. To me, that is a tragedy every bit as dire, and a lot more likely.

 

[Caroljo]

If an atheist is wrong they're wrong.

Are you suggesting atheists pay some hypocritical lip service to the christianist god as some half-assed attempt to get into heave?

You either believe or you don't. If you don't believe, I'd imagine a god would be able to see through your charade.

If ANYONE is wrong, they're wrong.
And no, i'm not suggesting anything of the kind, like you said...God would know, you can't fool Him. My question to Skull was what if you're wrong about God. What if you die and find out God was always here, there is an eternal afterlife, and when you die you find this out and there's nothing you can do to change the outcome? I've asked this question to several people and never get an answer (if i do it's just a smart ass comment). I think some people are afraid to answer it....

Then you were wrong.

I mean what if you're christian and you die and find out the muslims or the hindus were right.

What then?

You make your decisions and you move on and live with them.

I could be wrong...i'm not saying I'm not. But i have faith and i believe. I would much rather have the belief i have than to not believe and then find out i was wrong! Life is much better this way . It gives me something to look forward to.

I hope you're wrong about the muslims or hindus tho...i'd rather die and find out there nothing! Lol!

 

[koshergrl]

If an atheist is wrong they're wrong.

Are you suggesting atheists pay some hypocritical lip service to the christianist god as some half-assed attempt to get into heave?

You either believe or you don't. If you don't believe, I'd imagine a god would be able to see through your charade.

If ANYONE is wrong, they're wrong.
And no, i'm not suggesting anything of the kind, like you said...God would know, you can't fool Him. My question to Skull was what if you're wrong about God. What if you die and find out God was always here, there is an eternal afterlife, and when you die you find this out and there's nothing you can do to change the outcome? I've asked this question to several people and never get an answer (if i do it's just a smart ass comment). I think some people are afraid to answer it....

Then you were wrong.

I mean what if you're christian and you die and find out the muslims or the hindus were right.

What then?

You make your decisions and you move on and live with them.

For the short duration of your life...and then the eternal hereafter.

 

[Caroljo]

If an atheist is wrong they're wrong.

Are you suggesting atheists pay some hypocritical lip service to the christianist god as some half-assed attempt to get into heave?

You either believe or you don't. If you don't believe, I'd imagine a god would be able to see through your charade.

If ANYONE is wrong, they're wrong.
And no, i'm not suggesting anything of the kind, like you said...God would know, you can't fool Him. My question to Skull was what if you're wrong about God. What if you die and find out God was always here, there is an eternal afterlife, and when you die you find this out and there's nothing you can do to change the outcome? I've asked this question to several people and never get an answer (if i do it's just a smart ass comment). I think some people are afraid to answer it....

I will go to hell.

Simple enough for you?

But if I am wrong you wasted your entire life, your only life, on a fairy tail. To me, that is a tragedy every bit as dire, and a lot more likely.

You don't know if you will....only God knows that.

I would rather waste my life on this "fairy tale" (spelled correctly! ) than think there's nothing else. It's helped me through many hardships in life, it's helped me stay strong and endure a lot of crap that's happened in my life. So i'm not sorry one bit that i feel the way i do.

 

[Underhill]

If ANYONE is wrong, they're wrong.
And no, i'm not suggesting anything of the kind, like you said...God would know, you can't fool Him. My question to Skull was what if you're wrong about God. What if you die and find out God was always here, there is an eternal afterlife, and when you die you find this out and there's nothing you can do to change the outcome? I've asked this question to several people and never get an answer (if i do it's just a smart ass comment). I think some people are afraid to answer it....

I will go to hell.

Simple enough for you?

But if I am wrong you wasted your entire life, your only life, on a fairy tail. To me, that is a tragedy every bit as dire, and a lot more likely.

You don't know if you will....only God knows that.

I would rather waste my life on this "fairy tale" (spelled correctly! ) than think there's nothing else. It's helped me through many hardships in life, it's helped me stay strong and endure a lot of crap that's happened in my life. So i'm not sorry one bit that i feel the way i do.

Good for you. And perhaps some people need that reassurance.

Personally, I do not.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

If ANYONE is wrong, they're wrong.
And no, i'm not suggesting anything of the kind, like you said...God would know, you can't fool Him. My question to Skull was what if you're wrong about God. What if you die and find out God was always here, there is an eternal afterlife, and when you die you find this out and there's nothing you can do to change the outcome? I've asked this question to several people and never get an answer (if i do it's just a smart ass comment). I think some people are afraid to answer it....

Then you were wrong.

I mean what if you're christian and you die and find out the muslims or the hindus were right.

What then?

You make your decisions and you move on and live with them.

I could be wrong...i'm not saying I'm not. But i have faith and i believe. I would much rather have the belief i have than to not believe and then find out i was wrong! Life is much better this way . It gives me something to look forward to.

I hope you're wrong about the muslims or hindus tho...i'd rather die and find out there nothing! Lol!

You're right that nobody knows, but a lot of people around the world believe just as much as you do that their religion is the right one.

Personally, I think it's all a bunch of bunk, but as I stated previously, I could be wrong too.

Personally, I think it would be hilarious if some obscure little religion is the right one and all the rest are wrong.

Of course it would also be a trip to be at the river Styx....

 

[Underhill]

Then you were wrong.

I mean what if you're christian and you die and find out the muslims or the hindus were right.

What then?

You make your decisions and you move on and live with them.

I could be wrong...i'm not saying I'm not. But i have faith and i believe. I would much rather have the belief i have than to not believe and then find out i was wrong! Life is much better this way . It gives me something to look forward to.

I hope you're wrong about the muslims or hindus tho...i'd rather die and find out there nothing! Lol!

You're right that nobody knows, but a lot of people around the world believe just as much as you do that their religion is the right one.

Personally, I think it's all a bunch of bunk, but as I stated previously, I could be wrong too.

Personally, I think it would be hilarious if some obscure little religion is the right one and all the rest are wrong.

Of course it would also be a trip to be at the river Styx....

Son of a...

The Kumina's were right all along!

 

[ArmyCowboy]

I could be wrong...i'm not saying I'm not. But i have faith and i believe. I would much rather have the belief i have than to not believe and then find out i was wrong! Life is much better this way . It gives me something to look forward to.

I hope you're wrong about the muslims or hindus tho...i'd rather die and find out there nothing! Lol!

You're right that nobody knows, but a lot of people around the world believe just as much as you do that their religion is the right one.

Personally, I think it's all a bunch of bunk, but as I stated previously, I could be wrong too.

Personally, I think it would be hilarious if some obscure little religion is the right one and all the rest are wrong.

Of course it would also be a trip to be at the river Styx....

Son of a...

The Kumina's were right all along!

Everything irie, mon.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if you're wrong? Because i believe you are....but it's you're choice and i'm not one to push my beliefs on others, but i can put you in my prayers that you'll realize you're mistake before it's too late.

I'm not asking you to pray for me so please don't.

You also didn't answer my question....what if you're wrong?

What if?

I cannot suspend all reason on a what if. And if there is some magic man in the sky and I have to answer to him when i die, then if the way I have tried to live my life, quietly with respect, integrity and without intentionally hurting anyone isn't good enough for him then he would be no one I would bend a knee to anyway.

I believe those out for a reward who live a good life out of fear are not better than those who live a good life with no expectation of a reward.

 

[koshergrl]

You won't have a choice, and you will bend a knee.

From hell, of course. But it will happen.

 

[Caroljo]

Then you were wrong.

I mean what if you're christian and you die and find out the muslims or the hindus were right.

What then?

You make your decisions and you move on and live with them.

I could be wrong...i'm not saying I'm not. But i have faith and i believe. I would much rather have the belief i have than to not believe and then find out i was wrong! Life is much better this way . It gives me something to look forward to.

I hope you're wrong about the muslims or hindus tho...i'd rather die and find out there nothing! Lol!

You're right that nobody knows, but a lot of people around the world believe just as much as you do that their religion is the right one.

Personally, I think it's all a bunch of bunk, but as I stated previously, I could be wrong too.

Personally, I think it would be hilarious if some obscure little religion is the right one and all the rest are wrong.

Of course it would also be a trip to be at the river Styx....

Somebody's going to be wrong....that's all we know for sure!

 

[Caroljo]

I'm not asking you to pray for me so please don't.

You also didn't answer my question....what if you're wrong?

What if?

I cannot suspend all reason on a what if. And if there is some magic man in the sky and I have to answer to him when i die. If the way I have tried to live my life, quietly with respect, integrity and without intentionally hurting anyone isn't good enough for him then he would be n one I would bend a knee to anyway.

I believe those out for a reward who live a good life out of fear are not better than those who live a good life with no expectation of a reward.

Christians don't fear God. We live our lives to honor Him, but we don't fear him. If someone says they fear God, then they're not sure of themselves and aren't sure they are really saved. They haven't really experienced Him. I try to live a good life, but i also know i'm nowhere near perfect (and nobody is). I don't "expect" a reward.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You also didn't answer my question....what if you're wrong?

What if?

I cannot suspend all reason on a what if. And if there is some magic man in the sky and I have to answer to him when i die. If the way I have tried to live my life, quietly with respect, integrity and without intentionally hurting anyone isn't good enough for him then he would be n one I would bend a knee to anyway.

I believe those out for a reward who live a good life out of fear are not better than those who live a good life with no expectation of a reward.

Christians don't fear God. We live our lives to honor Him, but we don't fear him. If someone says they fear God, then they're not sure of themselves and aren't sure they are really saved. They haven't really experienced Him. I try to live a good life, but i also know i'm nowhere near perfect (and nobody is). I don't "expect" a reward.

Bull. God fearing is used all to often. And terrifying children with tales of torture in hell is not instilling fear?

Religion is just another control that you have accepted.

You're all out for some eternal reward and that is your motivation.

Would you still be all so be in love with the magic man in the sky if there was no eternal reward of paradise?

 

[editec]

Used to be a true believer of a mainline Protestant variety.

Agnostic deist, now.

 

[Hollie]

If ANYONE is wrong, they're wrong.
And no, i'm not suggesting anything of the kind, like you said...God would know, you can't fool Him. My question to Skull was what if you're wrong about God. What if you die and find out God was always here, there is an eternal afterlife, and when you die you find this out and there's nothing you can do to change the outcome? I've asked this question to several people and never get an answer (if i do it's just a smart ass comment). I think some people are afraid to answer it....

Then you were wrong.

I mean what if you're christian and you die and find out the muslims or the hindus were right.

What then?

You make your decisions and you move on and live with them.

I could be wrong...i'm not saying I'm not. But i have faith and i believe. I would much rather have the belief i have than to not believe and then find out i was wrong! Life is much better this way . It gives me something to look forward to.

I hope you're wrong about the muslims or hindus tho...i'd rather die and find out there nothing! Lol!

Blaise Pascal would be so proud.

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong god? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” god for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on god displays prideful ego and might anger god, and you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error

c. God might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

We disagree on how difficult it is to accept god on faith. From my perspective, people generally do it, and then go about their daily lives and it has minimal to no real impact.

Billions go through their rituals and really their religious beliefs are more or less like a second nature they really give no second thought to. It simply is the way it is for them.

Honestly, how many theists do you know who could even assess the problem of Pascal's Wager, let alone have even heard of it?

 

[Delia]

Used to be a true believer of a mainline Protestant variety.

Agnostic deist, now.

I get agnostic - I assume deist means there is a higher power, just not of the judeo-christian variety?

 

[Delia]

Blaise Pascal would be so proud.

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong god? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” god for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on god displays prideful ego and might anger god, and you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error

c. God might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

We disagree on how difficult it is to accept god on faith. From my perspective, people generally do it, and then go about their daily lives and it has minimal to no real impact.

Billions go through their rituals and really their religious beliefs are more or less like a second nature they really give no second thought to. It simply is the way it is for them.

Honestly, how many theists do you know who could even assess the problem of Pascal's Wager, let alone have even heard of it?

My point exactly.

And from another angle: Why do we have to "take this country back" if most everybody is already Christian, and degree to which they follow that doctrine doesn't matter?