Using the Bible to defend (or convict) two men of raping 13 year old relative

[emilynghiem]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Indeed. We are a nation of laws. The Bible has no more authority than the Koran, I Ching or the Tibetan Book of the Dead..

 

[tyroneweaver]

Jesus said that divorce is ok if immorality occurs.
If all sins are to be forgiven carte blanch then He wouldn't have allowed this.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

 

[tyroneweaver]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

You can torture a scripture to death to get the interpretation ya want.

 

[emilynghiem]

Indeed. We are a nation of laws. The Bible has no more authority than the Koran, I Ching or the Tibetan Book of the Dead..

Dear Billy_Kinetta for procedural legal purposes yes.
PSYCHOLOGICALLY to communicate and convict these men by their own consciences
and understanding, the Bible is the language and authority they requested to use.
So give them what they ask. Let them have it with both church and state laws, where these agree
this is wrong and these men need to answer for their crimes. Let them hear and receive it
by God's authority as they request. Justice will still be served using both laws to hold them to account.

 

[Eloy]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

 

[emilynghiem]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Yes buckeye45_73
the Bible does say every dime shall be paid, and to settle matters quickly lest ye be taken to court.
Whatever they ask, give.

I am curious if these men might be citing passages out of the OT that refer to rape
such as handing daughters over to be raped. Whatever it is, they are not following
all the laws IN CONTEXT.

There are ministers who are called to rebuke and correct those who need this using the Bible.
I believe with proper counseling, they would comply with civil authorities once they understand.
Some don't learn to obey and comply until later in the process.
Just wish they'd been corrected before anyone else got abused and harmed to this degree.

Religious and cult abuse needs to be addressed and corrected much earlier
and never allowed to go unchecked to this degree because people think religion cover them.
You are still not allowed to abuse religion to violate civil and criminal laws of the state.

All citizens should be taught this, and required to sign statements for legal responsibility,
or else get screened for mental or criminal illness if found to be incompetent.

If we require tests before licensing people to drive,
why not education, testing and screening before people are granted legal privileges as citizens
upon turning 18. There must be some standard way to check for criminal abuse and sickness
that DOESN'T violate civil rights and due process of citizens who aren't guilty of any abuse or intent,
instead of having to wait to be convicted of a crime before any such procedure can be initiated.

Perhaps at the point that religious organizations or groups register with states for
church or nonprofit status, there could be standards required for screening members
or policing for religious or cult abuse that the organization would otherwise be responsible for enabling. That might catch the bigger groups, such as the Scientologists and Jehovah's Witnesses or LDS with history of child abuse, though unaffiliated groups would be harder to check.

 

[emilynghiem]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

You can torture a scripture to death to get the interpretation ya want.

Yes tyroneweaver but if this conflict is addressed between Believers,
then we are supposed to rebuke and correct each other to establish TRUTH
that resolves and dismisses any such error or falsehood, regardless how twisted it may be.
See Matthew 18:15-20

So if these men speak falsely, as a form of "bearing false witness"
then they can still meet with rebuke and be asked to receive correction.
If they are asking to be rebuked or redeemed by Biblical authority,
why not give them the very counseling they seek? So that truth may be established
in the mouths of witnesses, and let this truth set these men free? even of their own errors.

 

[emilynghiem]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

 

[Eloy]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

 

[baileyn45]

These two need to be buried under the prison after a long miserable sentence, hopefully full of gang rapes.

 

[Eloy]

These two need to be buried under the prison after a long miserable sentence, hopefully full of gang rapes.

What you propose in advocating for rape would not be allowed in the European Union.

 

[baileyn45]

These two need to be buried under the prison after a long miserable sentence, hopefully full of gang rapes.

What you propose in advocating for rape would not be allowed in the European Union.

Who cares, these two have given up their rights as human being. They should be treated as a rabid dog was back in the day, track it, trap it and kill it.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

There is nowhere in the Bible that says you can keep anyone shackled against their will, so you can have your way with them. It does however speak against fathers & sons 'sharing' a woman (although underage marriages were frequent) AND it speaks against incest...including 'step' children.

They even broke biblical law and would have been put to death for this type of action/behavior

 

[there4eyeM]

The article is another of those things that only provides the 'strange' without any details. The defendants' use of the word "strategies", for example, is bizarre without and not clarified. Having read the Bible, what is clear is that these 'persons' do not understand it, but have taken some portion that fits their twisted desires and made it central to their self-justification.The unfathomable thing is that this even appears as a case, since there is no reason at all to accept their argument of supplanting U.S. law with another system.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Yes buckeye45_73
the Bible does say every dime shall be paid, and to settle matters quickly lest ye be taken to court.
Whatever they ask, give.

I am curious if these men might be citing passages out of the OT that refer to rape
such as handing daughters over to be raped. Whatever it is, they are not following
all the laws IN CONTEXT.

There are ministers who are called to rebuke and correct those who need this using the Bible.
I believe with proper counseling, they would comply with civil authorities once they understand.
Some don't learn to obey and comply until later in the process.
Just wish they'd been corrected before anyone else got abused and harmed to this degree.

Religious and cult abuse needs to be addressed and corrected much earlier
and never allowed to go unchecked to this degree because people think religion cover them.
You are still not allowed to abuse religion to violate civil and criminal laws of the state.

All citizens should be taught this, and required to sign statements for legal responsibility,
or else get screened for mental or criminal illness if found to be incompetent.

If we require tests before licensing people to drive,
why not education, testing and screening before people are granted legal privileges as citizens
upon turning 18. There must be some standard way to check for criminal abuse and sickness
that DOESN'T violate civil rights and due process of citizens who aren't guilty of any abuse or intent,
instead of having to wait to be convicted of a crime before any such procedure can be initiated.

Perhaps at the point that religious organizations or groups register with states for
church or nonprofit status, there could be standards required for screening members
or policing for religious or cult abuse that the organization would otherwise be responsible for enabling. That might catch the bigger groups, such as the Scientologists and Jehovah's Witnesses or LDS with history of child abuse, though unaffiliated groups would be harder to check.

Because when you screw someones.life up, you shouldn't be able to get counseling and continue on. You should get justice.

I don't understand people that care more about the criminal than the innocent victim.


As far as cults, if we were harsher, many of these groups would disapate, because they would be getting hammered by the law and people would be discouraged from joining.

But thane problem.with cults is you have to make judgements on what is and is not, I'm on with it, but the left tends to say they don't like judgemental attitudes l.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Ok, that's a stupid law. Murder and rape are barbaric, getting what you deserve is not.
Of you want to trade rape and murder to keep you holier than thou attitude, I fell pitty and disgust for those people.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Ohio Duo’s ‘Bible-Based’ Defense Should Fail In Court | Americans United

Okay, so I'm reading enough of these articles to get the idea:
these two men someone believe that using the Bible for defense of their "strategies"
is going to do more for their defense than hold them to account for their crimes.

What part of not committing adultery, and not coveting thy neighbor's wife or servant
or anything that belongs to thy neighbor do these men not get out of the Bible?

If they cite that they are forgiven, that's fine but doesn't ABSOLVE them of
crime punishments or due process of law under CIVIL AUTHORITY
the Bible also calls adherents and believers to OBEY. Even if it means
to be persecuted as believers in order to witness to Kings.

I would LOVE to help a team of Christians answer these two men's request to be rebuked
and tried using Biblical laws alone. We might get stuck on what it means
to obey civil authority. But given other men of authority speaking the Word of God
to them, by the language and laws they request, I believe this rebuke could be done effectively.
And they would submit to God's authority.

A couple of things

I know of nowhere in the bible that justifies raping kids...so they may be committing blasphemy.....which is really really bad, in addition to raping a child which is beyond disgusting.

Also, christains do forgive as
Jesus did, but you still have to face the music. So if you kill someone you can be forgiven, but you still need to be executed

Executing people is forbidden in the European Union on the grounds that it is barbaric.

Dear Eloy if people including the convicted
agree to that punishment then it is not barbaric but consensual and willful,
if it is mutually accepted as God's will by God's laws.

If it is part of free exercise of religion, and everyone involved consents to it,
it is part of the natural laws of justice.

it depends on the case, and what is the spiritual path, process and purpose
of the people involved.

Only a mentally disturbed person would want to be killed and only barbaric people would have execution as a just punishment.
So-called "God's will" might go down well in fundamentalist religious countries like Saudi Arabia and former rebel states of the USA but secular countries have no time for Biblical dogma.

So murder and rape aren't that bad according to you. All I can say is wow!

 

[buckeye45_73]

These two need to be buried under the prison after a long miserable sentence, hopefully full of gang rapes.

What you propose in advocating for rape would not be allowed in the European Union.

Who cares, these two have given up their rights as human being. They should be treated as a rabid dog was back in the day, track it, trap it and kill it.

Bingo once you do that stuff, you have declared I am not human and therfore it's open season.