Violent crime on London "Tubes" up 45% over the last 3 years....but they banned guns?

[Markle]

So when will our murder rates come down to US levels ?

What are the demographics of both countries?

 

[Markle]

We have had a conservative government for 8 years. The rise in crime has coincided with their cuts to policing and community services. You know nothing about the UK, or anything else really.

Then educate us. Provide us with reliable sources and links proving your allegations. Thank you!

 

[2aguy]

Wrong...you have an increasing flow of illegal guns flooding Britain, you have teenagers stabbing each other to death in record numbers, so you are about to experience gun crime like you haven't experienced it before.....

Law abiding citizens are not shooting people...... our schools are gun free zones created by people like you, leaving those in those places helpless while they are being murdered...meanwhile, actual research shows that armed citizens are 94% effective against mass public shooters in stopping them or reducing deaths and injuries...you will want to keep that statistic at hand in the next few years in Britain....you are going to need it....

I dream of the day when we are as safe as the US. Said nobody ever.

Your country is more violent than the U.S.....and here, our violence is contained to tiny areas in democrat party controlled neighborhoods....you, your crime is all over your country, and getting worse....

So when will our murder rates come down to US levels ?

Given time.....you might just see it one day......your police are over stretched, your young men are more violent after decades of single teenage mothers heading households.......and guns flooding your country.... thanks to left wing policies....

We have had a conservative government for 8 years. The rise in crime has coincided with their cuts to policing and community services. You know nothing about the UK, or anything else really.

The cuts to policing have happened because you can't afford your welfare state......so cuts have to come from somewhere....you really think the hard core lefties will do more for police?

 

[Vagabond63]

I agree, the answer to gun violence is not "more guns"; it's like saying "quick, use the gasoline to put out the fire," madness.

That's an ABSURD analogy. Humans cause violence, and often cause fires whether it be with gasoline, or any other TOOL. The tool does not cause the problem. People do. Take responsibility humans! Does your fork cause you to be fat?

Maybe, but it's still valid. Perhaps organisations like the CDC should be allowed to conduct proper research into the causes of gun violence.

They can and have been doing gun research, they were only stopped from advocating for gun confiscation.....

No, The Government Is Not 'Banned' From Studying Gun Violence

Absolutely nothing in the amendment prohibits the CDC from studying “gun violence,” even if this narrowly focused topic tells us little. In response to this inconvenient fact, gun controllers will explain that while there isn’t an outright ban, the Dickey amendment has a “chilling” effect on the study of gun violence.


Does it? Pointing out that “research plummeted after the 1996 ban” could just as easily tell us that most research funded by the CDC had been politically motivated. Because the idea that the CDC, whose spectacular mission creep has taken it from its primary goal of preventing malaria and other dangerous communicable diseases, to spending hundreds of millions of dollars nagging you about how much salt you put on your steaks or how often you do calisthenics, is nervous about the repercussions of engaging in non-partisan research is hard to believe.

Also unlikely is the notion that a $2.6 million cut in funding so horrified the agency that it was rendered powerless to pay for or conduct studies on gun violence. The CDC funding tripled from 1996 to 2010. The CDC’s budget is over six billion dollars today.

And the idea that the CDC was paralyzed through two-years of full Democratic Party control, and then six years under a president who was more antagonistic towards the Second Amendment than any other in history, is difficult to believe, because it’s provably false.

In 2013, President Barack Obama not only signed an Executive Order directing the CDC to research “gun violence,” the administration also provided an additional $10 million to do it. Here is the study on gun violence that was supposedly banned and yet funded by the CDC. You might not have heard about the resulting research, because it contains numerous inconvenient facts about gun ownership that fails to propel the predetermined narrative. Trump’s HHS Secretary Alex Azar is also open to the idea of funding more gun violence research.

It’s not banned. It’s not chilled.

Meanwhile, numerous states and private entities fund peer-reviewed studies and other research on gun violence. I know this because gun control advocates are constantly sending me studies that distort and conflate issues to help them make their arguments. My inbox is bombarded with studies and conferences and “webinars” dissecting gun violence.

The real problem here is two-fold. One, researchers want the CDC involved so they can access government data about American gun owners. Considering the rhetoric coming from Democrats — gun ownership being tantamount to terrorism, and so on — there’s absolutely no reason Republicans should acquiesce to helping gun controllers circumvent the privacy of Americans citizens peacefully practicing their Constitutional rights.

Second, gun control advocates want to lift the ban on politically skewed research because they’re interested in producing politically skewed research. When the American Medical Association declares gun violence a “public health crisis,” it’s not interested in a balance look at the issue. When researchers advocate lifting the restrictions on advocacy at the CDC, they don’t even pretend they not to hold pre-conceived notions about the outcomes.

-------

There’s no reason to allow activists — then or now — to use the veneer of state-sanctioned science for their partisan purposes. For example, we now know that Rosenberg and others at the CDC turned out to be wrong about the correlation between guns and crime — a steep drop in gun crimes coincided with the explosions of gun ownership from 1996 to 2014.

Really?

From your own source,

"However, the scarcity of research on firearm-related violence limits policy makers’ ability to propose evidence-based policies that reduce injuries and deaths and maximize safety while recognizing Second Amendment rights. Since the 1960s, a number of state and federal laws and regulations have been enacted that restrict government’s ability to collect and share information about gun sales, ownership, and possession, which has limited data collection and collation relevant to firearm violence prevention research. Among these are the amendments to the Gun Control Act of 1968,17 which prohibits the federal government from establishing an electronic database of the names of gun purchasers and requires gun dealers to conduct annual inventories of their firearms.

In addition to the restrictions on certain kinds of data collection, congressional action in 1996 effectively halted all firearm-related injury research at the CDC by prohibiting the use of federal funding “to advocate or promote gun control.”18 In 2011, Congress enacted similar restrictions affecting the entire U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.19 The net result was an overall reduction in firearm violence research (Kellermann and Rivara, 2013). As a result, the past 20 years have witnessed diminished progress in understanding the causes and effects of firearm violence." https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#23

 

[Vagabond63]

Law abiding citizens are not shooting people......

You always omit the fact that until they shoot someone, they no longer "are law abiding" As of April 2018, 1,200 people were kiled by "law abiding citizens". More Than 1,200 Non-Self Defense Deaths Involving Concealed Carry Killers Since 2007, Latest Violence Policy Center Research Shows

 

[Vagabond63]

I dream of the day when we are as safe as the US. Said nobody ever.

Your country is more violent than the U.S.....and here, our violence is contained to tiny areas in democrat party controlled neighborhoods....you, your crime is all over your country, and getting worse....

So when will our murder rates come down to US levels ?

Given time.....you might just see it one day......your police are over stretched, your young men are more violent after decades of single teenage mothers heading households.......and guns flooding your country.... thanks to left wing policies....

We have had a conservative government for 8 years. The rise in crime has coincided with their cuts to policing and community services. You know nothing about the UK, or anything else really.

The cuts to policing have happened because you can't afford your welfare state......so cuts have to come from somewhere....you really think the hard core lefties will do more for police?

Complete, BS. Cuts were due to warped Right wing ideology, every left wing government has increased spending on Police, since the 1990's, that's why our crime rates fall under Labour and rise under the Conservatives.

 

[2aguy]

I agree, the answer to gun violence is not "more guns"; it's like saying "quick, use the gasoline to put out the fire," madness.

That's an ABSURD analogy. Humans cause violence, and often cause fires whether it be with gasoline, or any other TOOL. The tool does not cause the problem. People do. Take responsibility humans! Does your fork cause you to be fat?

Maybe, but it's still valid. Perhaps organisations like the CDC should be allowed to conduct proper research into the causes of gun violence.

They can and have been doing gun research, they were only stopped from advocating for gun confiscation.....

No, The Government Is Not 'Banned' From Studying Gun Violence

Absolutely nothing in the amendment prohibits the CDC from studying “gun violence,” even if this narrowly focused topic tells us little. In response to this inconvenient fact, gun controllers will explain that while there isn’t an outright ban, the Dickey amendment has a “chilling” effect on the study of gun violence.


Does it? Pointing out that “research plummeted after the 1996 ban” could just as easily tell us that most research funded by the CDC had been politically motivated. Because the idea that the CDC, whose spectacular mission creep has taken it from its primary goal of preventing malaria and other dangerous communicable diseases, to spending hundreds of millions of dollars nagging you about how much salt you put on your steaks or how often you do calisthenics, is nervous about the repercussions of engaging in non-partisan research is hard to believe.

Also unlikely is the notion that a $2.6 million cut in funding so horrified the agency that it was rendered powerless to pay for or conduct studies on gun violence. The CDC funding tripled from 1996 to 2010. The CDC’s budget is over six billion dollars today.

And the idea that the CDC was paralyzed through two-years of full Democratic Party control, and then six years under a president who was more antagonistic towards the Second Amendment than any other in history, is difficult to believe, because it’s provably false.

In 2013, President Barack Obama not only signed an Executive Order directing the CDC to research “gun violence,” the administration also provided an additional $10 million to do it. Here is the study on gun violence that was supposedly banned and yet funded by the CDC. You might not have heard about the resulting research, because it contains numerous inconvenient facts about gun ownership that fails to propel the predetermined narrative. Trump’s HHS Secretary Alex Azar is also open to the idea of funding more gun violence research.

It’s not banned. It’s not chilled.

Meanwhile, numerous states and private entities fund peer-reviewed studies and other research on gun violence. I know this because gun control advocates are constantly sending me studies that distort and conflate issues to help them make their arguments. My inbox is bombarded with studies and conferences and “webinars” dissecting gun violence.

The real problem here is two-fold. One, researchers want the CDC involved so they can access government data about American gun owners. Considering the rhetoric coming from Democrats — gun ownership being tantamount to terrorism, and so on — there’s absolutely no reason Republicans should acquiesce to helping gun controllers circumvent the privacy of Americans citizens peacefully practicing their Constitutional rights.

Second, gun control advocates want to lift the ban on politically skewed research because they’re interested in producing politically skewed research. When the American Medical Association declares gun violence a “public health crisis,” it’s not interested in a balance look at the issue. When researchers advocate lifting the restrictions on advocacy at the CDC, they don’t even pretend they not to hold pre-conceived notions about the outcomes.

-------

There’s no reason to allow activists — then or now — to use the veneer of state-sanctioned science for their partisan purposes. For example, we now know that Rosenberg and others at the CDC turned out to be wrong about the correlation between guns and crime — a steep drop in gun crimes coincided with the explosions of gun ownership from 1996 to 2014.

Really?

From your own source,

"However, the scarcity of research on firearm-related violence limits policy makers’ ability to propose evidence-based policies that reduce injuries and deaths and maximize safety while recognizing Second Amendment rights. Since the 1960s, a number of state and federal laws and regulations have been enacted that restrict government’s ability to collect and share information about gun sales, ownership, and possession, which has limited data collection and collation relevant to firearm violence prevention research. Among these are the amendments to the Gun Control Act of 1968,17 which prohibits the federal government from establishing an electronic database of the names of gun purchasers and requires gun dealers to conduct annual inventories of their firearms.

In addition to the restrictions on certain kinds of data collection, congressional action in 1996 effectively halted all firearm-related injury research at the CDC by prohibiting the use of federal funding “to advocate or promote gun control.”18 In 2011, Congress enacted similar restrictions affecting the entire U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.19 The net result was an overall reduction in firearm violence research (Kellermann and Rivara, 2013). As a result, the past 20 years have witnessed diminished progress in understanding the causes and effects of firearm violence." https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#23

And yet the CDC does conduct gun research.....they cannot promote gun control...from the quote you used..... Once they were no longer allowed to promote attacking a Civil Right, they stopped doing fake research to support it....and still do actual research...in other threads I have given the research on guns that they have done since the ban on gun control promotion....

 

[2aguy]

Your country is more violent than the U.S.....and here, our violence is contained to tiny areas in democrat party controlled neighborhoods....you, your crime is all over your country, and getting worse....

So when will our murder rates come down to US levels ?

Given time.....you might just see it one day......your police are over stretched, your young men are more violent after decades of single teenage mothers heading households.......and guns flooding your country.... thanks to left wing policies....

We have had a conservative government for 8 years. The rise in crime has coincided with their cuts to policing and community services. You know nothing about the UK, or anything else really.

The cuts to policing have happened because you can't afford your welfare state......so cuts have to come from somewhere....you really think the hard core lefties will do more for police?

Complete, BS. Cuts were due to warped Right wing ideology, every left wing government has increased spending on Police, since the 1990's, that's why our crime rates fall under Labour and rise under the Conservatives.

Britain can't afford it's welfare state anymore than any other country can.....so the first things cut are the police, since the rich will have protection, and the only ones who will suffer are the poor......

 

[2aguy]

Law abiding citizens are not shooting people......

You always omit the fact that until they shoot someone, they no longer "are law abiding" As of April 2018, 1,200 people were kiled by "law abiding citizens". More Than 1,200 Non-Self Defense Deaths Involving Concealed Carry Killers Since 2007, Latest Violence Policy Center Research Shows

The gun violence policy numbers are wrong...you used a biased, anti-gun source......

New York Times again using the bogus Violence Policy Center data - Crime Prevention Research Center

The New York Times continues its reliance on the Violence Policy Center’s discussion about concealed handgun permit holders.

since 2007, at least 763 people have been killed in 579 shootings that did not involve self-defense.

When the New York Times cited this source in February we had this piece at Fox.

The VPC keeps a record of permit holder abuses in each state. Take the claimed worst state, Michigan. The VPC cites state police and media reports indicating that permit holders committed 277 suicides or murders during the period from 2007 through 2015 (217 suicides and 60 murders). If accurate, a 38 percent share of all 722 deaths nationwide that the VPC attributed to permitted concealed handguns occurred in Michigan.

But suicides are not in any meaningful way linked to the act of carrying a permitted concealed handgun outside of one’s home. The Michigan State Police reports it does not collect information on how the suicides were committed, just that permit holders committed suicide.

Interestingly, the 2013 suicide rate among Michigan permit holders (6.2 per 100,000 permit holders) is lower than the rate among the general adult population (16.59). Typically, suicides — with or without guns — take place at home. So, again, what do these numbers have to do with the concealed-carry debate? . . .

All in all, the VPC has managed to at least triple-count the true number of cases of permit holders killing people. Furthermore, the vast majority of these killings were suicides, or legitimate self-defense shootings. . . .

 

[2aguy]

Law abiding citizens are not shooting people......

You always omit the fact that until they shoot someone, they no longer "are law abiding" As of April 2018, 1,200 people were kiled by "law abiding citizens". More Than 1,200 Non-Self Defense Deaths Involving Concealed Carry Killers Since 2007, Latest Violence Policy Center Research Shows

No....law abiding citizens do not snap and commit murder simply because they have guns......people who shoot other people are 90% of the time life time criminals, with records going back to their teen years....so you are wrong, again......

The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

 

[Markle]

Law abiding citizens are not shooting people......

You always omit the fact that until they shoot someone, they no longer "are law abiding" As of April 2018, 1,200 people were kiled by "law abiding citizens". More Than 1,200 Non-Self Defense Deaths Involving Concealed Carry Killers Since 2007, Latest Violence Policy Center Research Shows

Since 2007? Really? WOW!

 

[Vagabond63]

And yet the CDC does conduct gun research...

"Despite an executive order by President Barack Obama to resume research on gun violence, the CDC has adhered to a two-decade-old Congressional restriction that effectively bans such inquiries. Now here was a document suggesting it was tiptoeing back in." The CDC Just Released a 'Gun Violence' Study

The gun violence policy numbers are wrong...you used a biased, anti-gun source......

LOL! A John Lott website is an unbiased source, oh please!

 

[candycorn]

Yep.......when you disarm the people, you turn them into victims of any young, strong, aggressive males who want to take what they have.....

Violent crime rises by 43% in three years on London Underground

When they get to 30,000 gun deaths a year, call us.

 

[2aguy]

And yet the CDC does conduct gun research...

"Despite an executive order by President Barack Obama to resume research on gun violence, the CDC has adhered to a two-decade-old Congressional restriction that effectively bans such inquiries. Now here was a document suggesting it was tiptoeing back in." The CDC Just Released a 'Gun Violence' Study

The gun violence policy numbers are wrong...you used a biased, anti-gun source......

LOL! A John Lott website is an unbiased source, oh please!

wrong again......the CDC has been conducting gun research....but since they can't use it to push gun control they just don't have the desire to do it...but they still have done it...go and look at the CDC research studies and you will see....

Obama CDC Study: Silencers Best Option for Noise Reduction at Gun Ranges - The Truth About Guns

The CDC looked at a number of different solutions to reduce the exposure to the hazardous noise levels in shooting ranges and arrived at the same solution as every other logical gun owner: silencers.
The only potentially effective noise control method to reduce students’ or instructors’ noise exposure from gunfire is through the use of noise suppressors that can be attached to the end of the gun barrel. However, some states do not permit civilians to use suppressors on firearms.
Some gun control activists claim that noise on shooting ranges isn’t a health issue. The CDC says otherwise, and the report is right here in black and white. Are these luddites going to argue with science?


====================

When Gun Violence Felt Like a Disease, a City in Delaware Turned to the C.D.C.

When epidemiologists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came to this city, they were not here to track an outbreak of meningitis or study the effectiveness of a particular vaccine.



They were here to examine gun violence.

This city of about 70,000 had a 45 percent jump in shootings from 2011 to 2013, and the violence has remained stubbornly high; 25 shooting deaths have been reported this year, slightly more than last year, according to the mayor’s office
.-------



The final report, which has been submitted to the state, reached a conclusion that many here said they already knew: that there are certain patterns in the lives of many who commit gun violence.

“The majority of individuals involved in urban firearm violence are young men with substantial violence involvement preceding the more serious offense of a firearm crime,” the report said. “Our findings suggest that integrating data systems could help these individuals better receive the early, comprehensive help that they need to prevent violence involvement.”

Researchers analyzed data on 569 people charged with firearm crimes from 2009 to May 21, 2014, and looked for certain risk factors in their lives, such as whether they had been unemployed, had received help from assistance programs, had been possible victims of child abuse, or had been shot or stabbed. The idea was to show that linking such data could create a better understanding of who might need help before becoming involved in violence.

 

[2aguy]

Yep.......when you disarm the people, you turn them into victims of any young, strong, aggressive males who want to take what they have.....

Violent crime rises by 43% in three years on London Underground

When they get to 30,000 gun deaths a year, call us.

You put suicide into the number...you hack. And British criminals had guns before the ban and confiscation and didn't kill each other with them.....now, after the ban, the number of murders went up, and then returned to the same level...

What is it with you guys that think that having a gun makes a criminal use it to commit murder......as the British police have stated, they can't stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain, and island....their gun control laws do not work...

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Yep.......when you disarm the people, you turn them into victims of any young, strong, aggressive males who want to take what they have.....

Violent crime rises by 43% in three years on London Underground

Good grief.

You are still spamming the board with the same threads, one after another after another after another?

And still no facts to back up your position.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

 

[Vagabond63]

go and look at the CDC research studies and you will see...

...Nothing, just gathering statistics...no, wait, "According to the research, 39,773 people were fatally shot in 2017, a figure that has grown by more than 10,000 people since 1999. CDC data going back to 1979 shows that last year had the highest rates of gun deaths in nearly 40 years." Gun Deaths in the U.S. Are at Their Highest Rates in Decades, CDC Says

Lack of any control over firearms is "detrimental" to public health, wouldn't you agree?

 

[2aguy]

go and look at the CDC research studies and you will see...

...Nothing, just gathering statistics...no, wait, "According to the research, 39,773 people were fatally shot in 2017, a figure that has grown by more than 10,000 people since 1999. CDC data going back to 1979 shows that last year had the highest rates of gun deaths in nearly 40 years." Gun Deaths in the U.S. Are at Their Highest Rates in Decades, CDC Says

Lack of any control over firearms is "detrimental" to public health, wouldn't you agree?

Nope.....we have more than enough control over guns, what we lack is control over gun criminals. This problem stems from our democrat party......they release violent, repeat gun offenders, the ones doing the shooting, over and over again.

And of course, they used suicides to get that number up....a dishonest action on their part to push their anti-self defense agenda.....

And again, suicides do not count, since any other means will be used if guns are not available. Just ask the Japanese, Chinese and Koreans...as well as many of the European countries that all have higher suicide rates than the U.S.

Here is the true measure...more Americans own and carry guns, while our crime rates drop....meanwhile, in Britain, your crime rates are going up...

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

go and look at the CDC research studies and you will see...

...Nothing, just gathering statistics...no, wait, "According to the research, 39,773 people were fatally shot in 2017, a figure that has grown by more than 10,000 people since 1999. CDC data going back to 1979 shows that last year had the highest rates of gun deaths in nearly 40 years." Gun Deaths in the U.S. Are at Their Highest Rates in Decades, CDC Says

Lack of any control over firearms is "detrimental" to public health, wouldn't you agree?

And since the CDC is including suicide in their number, to push their anti-self defense agenda....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world.

According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.