Violent criminals are just a myth, until they aren't and you need a gun to stop them.

[2aguy]

Because it catches all the guns that aren't sold in gun stores.....it creates new registries and expands the old one....and the only reason you want that is so that, down the road, you can collect those guns that no one knew about before.

Do gun shop background checks go on a registry?

Not by name of the owner, just that the gun was sold.

So no registry?

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

 

[2aguy]

Do gun shop background checks go on a registry?

Not normally. The GunShop keeps them on file. Each state has it's own time limit for how long. But it's not generally sent to the state or the feds. It's a background check not a gun registration.

The firearms I sell in my shop, any and all paperwork on the firearm is destroyed as soon as humanly possible.
That way there is absolutely zero chance of any record on said firearm...

Good for you. Any reason individual sales couldn't be handled the same way?

Time, money and privacy

WTF does that mean? Does a background check for an individual seller have to take longer, cost more, or reveal more information than one done for a licensed dealer? If so, why?

The gun store is not making money off of a private sale so they will charge a fee for doing the background check.

Here you go...

AGain.....David Kopel explains why a record has to be kept...

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory.


For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge.

The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number.

Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Not normally. The GunShop keeps them on file. Each state has it's own time limit for how long. But it's not generally sent to the state or the feds. It's a background check not a gun registration.

The firearms I sell in my shop, any and all paperwork on the firearm is destroyed as soon as humanly possible.
That way there is absolutely zero chance of any record on said firearm...

Good for you. Any reason individual sales couldn't be handled the same way?

Time, money and privacy

WTF does that mean? Does a background check for an individual seller have to take longer, cost more, or reveal more information than one done for a licensed dealer? If so, why?

The gun store is not making money off of a private sale so they will charge a fee for doing the background check.

Here you go...

AGain.....David Kopel explains why a record has to be kept...

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory.


For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge.

The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number.

Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation.

What hogwash. How doyou even get out of bed with all these fears ahd fobles. I can think of many other things in life much more important than any of this. This is so low on the totem pole it's not worth mentioning. Kiss a good woman. Hug a small child. Pat a dog on the head. Look up at the sky and marvel at Gods work. Dangle your feet over the edge of a canyon at 11,000 feet and watch an eagle soar just above the clouds. Soprry and Hatred just means more Sorrow and Hatred.

 

[BULLDOG]

Do gun shop background checks go on a registry?

Not by name of the owner, just that the gun was sold.

So no registry?

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

 

[Skull Pilot]

If that were true, considering more than 17 million people have CCW permits, there would be a lot more violence than there is today
But keep spouting this shit and proving what a fucking idiot you are.

I hope I'm there when you get the shit beat out of you so I can laugh my ass off while you're waiting for the cops to come rescue you

Your numbers are slightly inflated but not enough to worry about. But what you don't take into account is, only about 3 million actually carry even when they have a CCW. It's a real hassle when you go out. What do you do with it when you need to go into a library or someplace that doesn't allow your weapon according to the law? You can't go bar hopping, go into schools to visit your kids and more. So you either leave it home or lock it in your trunk. I wouldn't trust locking it in the glove box since any thief worth his salts can break into there in 4 seconds with a screwdriver. Just having the Permit doesn't mean you go around armed all the time.

Now, stop making shit up.

Concealed Carry Statistics: Quick Facts by State (2017)

New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

So 16.3 million a year ago

17 million is probably a lower number than actual today

unlike you I actually know what I'm talking about

Lots of people will sell a gun to who ever has the cash. Doesn't matter if the purchaser is a crook or not as long as there is no obligation to even care about that, much less the legal obligation to do a background check. Many fewer will do that if they are legally obligated to find out if the purchaser is even allowed to have a gun. No. It won't make all guns unavailable to all crooks, but it will make it harder for them to get a gun. Are you such a twat as to not see that?

It won't stop any piece of shit criminal from buying a gun PERIOD

Yes, I know that is your constant claim, but you have offered no reason to believe it other than "because I say so"

You mean other than the fact that criminals by definition don't obey the law?

If stupid were money you'd be a multimillionaire

 

[2aguy]

Not by name of the owner, just that the gun was sold.

So no registry?

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

Because, you simple fool.... at the gun store when a sale is made the fact that a background check is done is recorded on the sale..but the exact human buying the gun is not identified.

For a background check on a private sale to work, both parties have to be known... so that the government knows that the background check actually was done....other wise.... they could sell the gun, and the new owners says, sure, we did a background check...or Hey, I have always owned this gun. Without a record of ownership they can't check who the buyer is and if they were put through a background check....

That is the issue and why it is a gun registration move and not a safety move.

 

[Rustic]

Not normally. The GunShop keeps them on file. Each state has it's own time limit for how long. But it's not generally sent to the state or the feds. It's a background check not a gun registration.

The firearms I sell in my shop, any and all paperwork on the firearm is destroyed as soon as humanly possible.
That way there is absolutely zero chance of any record on said firearm...

Good for you. Any reason individual sales couldn't be handled the same way?

Time, money and privacy

WTF does that mean? Does a background check for an individual seller have to take longer, cost more, or reveal more information than one done for a licensed dealer? If so, why?

The gun store is not making money off of a private sale so they will charge a fee for doing the background check.

Here you go...

AGain.....David Kopel explains why a record has to be kept...

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory.


For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge.

The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number.

Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation.

Yep
Bloomberg wants an all out gun confiscation...

 

[Rustic]

The firearms I sell in my shop, any and all paperwork on the firearm is destroyed as soon as humanly possible.
That way there is absolutely zero chance of any record on said firearm...

Good for you. Any reason individual sales couldn't be handled the same way?

Time, money and privacy

WTF does that mean? Does a background check for an individual seller have to take longer, cost more, or reveal more information than one done for a licensed dealer? If so, why?

The gun store is not making money off of a private sale so they will charge a fee for doing the background check.

Here you go...

AGain.....David Kopel explains why a record has to be kept...

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory.


For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge.

The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number.

Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation.

What hogwash. How doyou even get out of bed with all these fears ahd fobles. I can think of many other things in life much more important than any of this. This is so low on the totem pole it's not worth mentioning. Kiss a good woman. Hug a small child. Pat a dog on the head. Look up at the sky and marvel at Gods work. Dangle your feet over the edge of a canyon at 11,000 feet and watch an eagle soar just above the clouds. Soprry and Hatred just means more Sorrow and Hatred.

And you say you are not a control freak… LOL

 

[Rustic]

Not by name of the owner, just that the gun was sold.

So no registry?

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

No one has the right to record any private sales, it’s against the Constitution

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Good for you. Any reason individual sales couldn't be handled the same way?

Time, money and privacy

WTF does that mean? Does a background check for an individual seller have to take longer, cost more, or reveal more information than one done for a licensed dealer? If so, why?

The gun store is not making money off of a private sale so they will charge a fee for doing the background check.

Here you go...

AGain.....David Kopel explains why a record has to be kept...

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory.


For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge.

The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number.

Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation.

What hogwash. How doyou even get out of bed with all these fears ahd fobles. I can think of many other things in life much more important than any of this. This is so low on the totem pole it's not worth mentioning. Kiss a good woman. Hug a small child. Pat a dog on the head. Look up at the sky and marvel at Gods work. Dangle your feet over the edge of a canyon at 11,000 feet and watch an eagle soar just above the clouds. Soprry and Hatred just means more Sorrow and Hatred.

And you say you are not a control freak… LOL

Control Freak? Hell, I don't even have that much control over me, much less anyone else. LOL

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The firearms I sell in my shop, any and all paperwork on the firearm is destroyed as soon as humanly possible.
That way there is absolutely zero chance of any record on said firearm...

Good for you. Any reason individual sales couldn't be handled the same way?

Time, money and privacy

WTF does that mean? Does a background check for an individual seller have to take longer, cost more, or reveal more information than one done for a licensed dealer? If so, why?

The gun store is not making money off of a private sale so they will charge a fee for doing the background check.

Here you go...

AGain.....David Kopel explains why a record has to be kept...

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory.


For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge.

The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number.

Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation.

Yep
Bloomberg wants an all out gun confiscation...

And you really think I listen with baited breath to Bloomberg? He's about as bloviated as Rush.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Not by name of the owner, just that the gun was sold.

So no registry?

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

Bulldog, tutu is a bullshit artist. Of course there isn't. In this state, it's required for the seller and the buyer to go to a licensed dealer and do a background check. The cost is set at 7 bucks. If you can't afford the money then you probably can't afford the gun in the first place.

 

[BULLDOG]

Your numbers are slightly inflated but not enough to worry about. But what you don't take into account is, only about 3 million actually carry even when they have a CCW. It's a real hassle when you go out. What do you do with it when you need to go into a library or someplace that doesn't allow your weapon according to the law? You can't go bar hopping, go into schools to visit your kids and more. So you either leave it home or lock it in your trunk. I wouldn't trust locking it in the glove box since any thief worth his salts can break into there in 4 seconds with a screwdriver. Just having the Permit doesn't mean you go around armed all the time.

Now, stop making shit up.

Concealed Carry Statistics: Quick Facts by State (2017)

New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

So 16.3 million a year ago

17 million is probably a lower number than actual today

unlike you I actually know what I'm talking about

Lots of people will sell a gun to who ever has the cash. Doesn't matter if the purchaser is a crook or not as long as there is no obligation to even care about that, much less the legal obligation to do a background check. Many fewer will do that if they are legally obligated to find out if the purchaser is even allowed to have a gun. No. It won't make all guns unavailable to all crooks, but it will make it harder for them to get a gun. Are you such a twat as to not see that?

It won't stop any piece of shit criminal from buying a gun PERIOD

Yes, I know that is your constant claim, but you have offered no reason to believe it other than "because I say so"

You mean other than the fact that criminals by definition don't obey the law?

If stupid were money you'd be a multimillionaire

That is an absurd claim that could be used to justify the removal of all laws. Do you have a rational answer to the question?

 

[BULLDOG]

So no registry?

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

Because, you simple fool.... at the gun store when a sale is made the fact that a background check is done is recorded on the sale..but the exact human buying the gun is not identified.

For a background check on a private sale to work, both parties have to be known... so that the government knows that the background check actually was done....other wise.... they could sell the gun, and the new owners says, sure, we did a background check...or Hey, I have always owned this gun. Without a record of ownership they can't check who the buyer is and if they were put through a background check....

That is the issue and why it is a gun registration move and not a safety move.

So how does the government know a background check was actually done when a gun shop sells a gun. Using your logic, a crooked gun shop owner, who by your definition doesn't follow the law, might just say "sure, we did a background check". How do those scenarios differ?

 

[BULLDOG]

So no registry?

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

No one has the right to record any private sales, it’s against the Constitution

Which article?

 

[2aguy]

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

Because, you simple fool.... at the gun store when a sale is made the fact that a background check is done is recorded on the sale..but the exact human buying the gun is not identified.

For a background check on a private sale to work, both parties have to be known... so that the government knows that the background check actually was done....other wise.... they could sell the gun, and the new owners says, sure, we did a background check...or Hey, I have always owned this gun. Without a record of ownership they can't check who the buyer is and if they were put through a background check....

That is the issue and why it is a gun registration move and not a safety move.

So how does the government know a background check was actually done when a gun shop sells a gun. Using your logic, a crooked gun shop owner, who by your definition doesn't follow the law, might just say "sure, we did a background check". How do those scenarios differ?

The gun is sold and they have the paperwork to confirm it was sold with a check..... And if they did fake it? They wouldlose their license and go to jail you freaking dumb ass......

 

[Rustic]

So no registry?

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

Bulldog, tutu is a bullshit artist. Of course there isn't. In this state, it's required for the seller and the buyer to go to a licensed dealer and do a background check. The cost is set at 7 bucks. If you can't afford the money then you probably can't afford the gun in the first place.

It’s not necessary here

 

[BULLDOG]

Just got off the phone to a gun store in Illinois.... nope, they do not register the guns, they simply record a sale. So a universal background check law would end up registering any gun I sell......no thanks.

So what makes you think an individual sale would have to be more than registering a sale?

... the only way to tell if a background check was done for a private sale is to keep a record of the seller and who they sell it too.....otherwise they can just say they did it or that they are the original owner.....without gun registration, universal background checks can't work. At a gun store they can record a background check was done for that gun....without registering the name of the buyer...... a private sale won't work like that

Still not clear on why an individual sale can't be recorded the same way. Is there some magical spell preventing that?

Bulldog, tutu is a bullshit artist. Of course there isn't. In this state, it's required for the seller and the buyer to go to a licensed dealer and do a background check. The cost is set at 7 bucks. If you can't afford the money then you probably can't afford the gun in the first place.

It’s not necessary here

Yes, I know that. That's why I'm saying it should be.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Concealed Carry Statistics: Quick Facts by State (2017)

New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

So 16.3 million a year ago

17 million is probably a lower number than actual today

unlike you I actually know what I'm talking about

Lots of people will sell a gun to who ever has the cash. Doesn't matter if the purchaser is a crook or not as long as there is no obligation to even care about that, much less the legal obligation to do a background check. Many fewer will do that if they are legally obligated to find out if the purchaser is even allowed to have a gun. No. It won't make all guns unavailable to all crooks, but it will make it harder for them to get a gun. Are you such a twat as to not see that?

It won't stop any piece of shit criminal from buying a gun PERIOD

Yes, I know that is your constant claim, but you have offered no reason to believe it other than "because I say so"

You mean other than the fact that criminals by definition don't obey the law?

If stupid were money you'd be a multimillionaire

That is an absurd claim that could be used to justify the removal of all laws. Do you have a rational answer to the question?

Just like your claim that a law will stop crime

Laws do not prevent criminals from committing crimes laws are nothing but a a statement of prohibited behaviors and the punishment for engaging in such behaviors

When the police have no obligation to uphold laws what in hell makes you think that a new law will be effective ?

I suppose you think all our drug laws have been effective in reducing drug use too right?

 

[BULLDOG]

Lots of people will sell a gun to who ever has the cash. Doesn't matter if the purchaser is a crook or not as long as there is no obligation to even care about that, much less the legal obligation to do a background check. Many fewer will do that if they are legally obligated to find out if the purchaser is even allowed to have a gun. No. It won't make all guns unavailable to all crooks, but it will make it harder for them to get a gun. Are you such a twat as to not see that?

It won't stop any piece of shit criminal from buying a gun PERIOD

Yes, I know that is your constant claim, but you have offered no reason to believe it other than "because I say so"

You mean other than the fact that criminals by definition don't obey the law?

If stupid were money you'd be a multimillionaire

That is an absurd claim that could be used to justify the removal of all laws. Do you have a rational answer to the question?

Just like your claim that a law will stop crime

Laws do not prevent criminals from committing crimes laws are nothing but a a statement of prohibited behaviors and the punishment for engaging in such behaviors

When the police have no obligation to uphold laws what in hell makes you think that a new law will be effective ?

I suppose you think all our drug laws have been effective in reducing drug use too right?

Some laws are very effective, but some aren't. The law against building machine guns is one that works quite well. There are plenty of plans available to build fully automatic weapons in your garage with simple tools that most people have. Why do you think everybody doesn't do that?