WA School Mistaken: Satan Group Is A Hate Group & Can't Use Campus Therefore

[Montrovant]

It's great that this group is showing the christian exclusivity behind our so-called religious freedom in America. Everywhere they go they show that Christians only treasure their own religious freedom.

Right, except they guy admitted they are NOT a religion. They just want to give religious people shit.

Actually, the guy only said that they don't believe in Satan as a deity. That doesn't mean that they aren't a religion, legally.

 

[Silhouette]

^^ If you read close enough Monty, you'd know that it doesn't matter whether they're religious or secular...either is allowed on school: unless they teach hate. Then they're not.

To be clear, are you saying that "fighting religious tyranny and oppression" is teaching hatred?

Yes, because it is the labelling of "all religions" as "tyrannical and oppressive". Remember Hilter went around teaching "good white Germans" that Jews were "tyrannical and oppressive". From there hatred was implied.

All religions are not tyrannical and oppressive. So it is bigotry. It is teaching bigotry to children: to hate other groups by label "religious". And that isn't allowed on public grounds; including school campuses.

 

[occupied]

Satan can never be classified as a "hate" anything since Satan supports the Democrats.

LOL don't remember hearing about that particular endorsement. Since we are talking about him as an actual person, Christian tradition holds that Satan is adept at using the holy scriptures to lead people astray.

 

[Montrovant]

They certainly have the right to form a club and the right to use school property as any other club is allowed to do. However, since they are stating up front that they really aren't a 'Satan Worshipping group' but are instead forming as a kind of 'fake' Satan Worshipping group to force school districts to either stop giving preferential treatment to religious groups or afford all groups the same treatment, they may have a tough time if it goes to court. I think even a 'fake' SW group should have equal access as it is just a club like any religious group on campus would be, but this MAY be a gray area the court could rule against them.

And you have to admit, it is really almost like a year-round Halloweener group, and the horns look awesome!

That's the milder of the two reasons not to allow them on campus. The more potent is THAT THEY STATED THEY ARE A GROUP THAT TEACHES THE HATRED OR DISDAIN GENERALLY AGAINST ALL OTHER ORGANIZED RELIGION.

Hate groups are not allowed to use school campuses. If this group flies, then nazi groups that teach children the hatred of Judaism must be allowed as well.

To be clear, are you saying that "fighting religious tyranny and oppression" is teaching hatred?

Why bother? Sil is an open racist here. For an open racist to disparage teaching 'hate' is laughable anyway. There is little reason to feed that particular troll. :/

I'm like a dog with a bone when it comes to Sil. I keep gnawing at it, trying to get to some sort of reason inside if I chew away the outer ridiculousness.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who's to say a religion can't teach hate? If your God teaches you to hate, that's part of your religion.

Nope. Christians teach to hate behaviors, not people doing them. The main edict of Christianity is to hate the behavior the sinner is doing, but not the sinner himself. The group from the OP openly states that their goal is to teach children to hate "the tyranny of religion" while calling themselves a religion "Satanists" who don't actually have anything to do with Satan. They are a fake group who generally want to teach hatred of others as a group "the religious".

Because of those two things, they are not allowed on school grounds.

That's a dubious distinction. When Christians claim it's okay to deny homosexuals equal rights because of their sexual orientation, that is hatred.

 

[Montrovant]

^^ If you read close enough Monty, you'd know that it doesn't matter whether they're religious or secular...either is allowed on school: unless they teach hate. Then they're not.

To be clear, are you saying that "fighting religious tyranny and oppression" is teaching hatred?

Yes, because it is the labelling of "all religions" as "tyrannical and oppressive". Remember Hilter went around teaching "good white Germans" that Jews were "tyrannical and oppressive". From there hatred was implied.

All religions are not tyrannical and oppressive. So it is bigotry. It is teaching bigotry to children: to hate other groups by label "religious".

Where did the spokesman say anything about all religions being tyrannical and oppressive? Oh, that's right, nowhere.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The satanists need to go international and open a chaper in Yemen.

 

[FA_Q2]

They certainly have the right to form a club and the right to use school property as any other club is allowed to do. However, since they are stating up front that they really aren't a 'Satan Worshipping group' but are instead forming as a kind of 'fake' Satan Worshipping group to force school districts to either stop giving preferential treatment to religious groups or afford all groups the same treatment, they may have a tough time if it goes to court. I think even a 'fake' SW group should have equal access as it is just a club like any religious group on campus would be, but this MAY be a gray area the court could rule against them.

And you have to admit, it is really almost like a year-round Halloweener group, and the horns look awesome!

That's the milder of the two reasons not to allow them on campus. The more potent is THAT THEY STATED THEY ARE A GROUP THAT TEACHES THE HATRED OR DISDAIN GENERALLY AGAINST ALL OTHER ORGANIZED RELIGION.

Hate groups are not allowed to use school campuses. If this group flies, then nazi groups that teach children the hatred of Judaism must be allowed as well.

To be clear, are you saying that "fighting religious tyranny and oppression" is teaching hatred?

Why bother? Sil is an open racist here. For an open racist to disparage teaching 'hate' is laughable anyway. There is little reason to feed that particular troll. :/

I'm like a dog with a bone when it comes to Sil. I keep gnawing at it, trying to get to some sort of reason inside if I chew away the outer ridiculousness.

Good Luck!

 

[Silhouette]

^^ Yep, that's a pretty big bone to take on Monty..

That's a dubious distinction. When Christians claim it's okay to deny homosexuals equal rights because of their sexual orientation, that is hatred.

The 7th circuit federal court of appeals did not cite Christianity at all when it said that homosexuals were not covered under the 1964 Civil Rights Act in Hively v Ivy Tech (2016). So your blame is misplaced; seeking a scapegoat to beat up (Christians). It was a secular court citing secular law that said homosexuality is behaviors, not a race or gender.

 

[BULLDOG]

Dontcha just love the newly indoctrinated generation of Millennials? Great work Church of Satan. Wonder what influenced these kids now grown as they were growing up? Twenty guesses and the first 19 don't count.

(numbers mine)
Satanic Temple seeks after-school Satan club in Mount Vernon

The Satanic Temple of Seattle would like to have the program running this school year but needs approval from the school district....A 1991 Supreme Court ruling, Good News Club vs. Milford Central School District, 1. stated that if schools allow any organization to use school property, they must allow all organizations — religious and secular — access, Bruner said....
Claypool said a Centennial parent recently brought the Good News Bible Club’s use of school property to the attention of the Satanic Temple, which has operating in Seattle for about a year and a half, Claypool said.


The parent was concerned about publicly funded spaces being used by the Good News Bible Club, he said.


2. “These children (in the Good News Bible Club), they’re also taught to evangelize to other children,” Claypool said. “(The parent) thought this indoctrination on school grounds was inappropriate.”...
The temple has aspirations to open an After School Satan Club at every school that has a Good News Bible Club, Claypool said.


3. He said the goal aligns with a movement on behalf of Satanic Temples nationwide.


“We’re leveraging equal access,” he said....“We don’t worship a deity,” he said. “We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression.”...
“It’s kind of an all-or-nothing deal,” Bruner said. “Do we want to exclude everyone from use of our public facilities just because of this group that’s trying to make a point?”


4. The district will work with its attorney and its School Board to explore how to respond to the application.

****************

1. This is the premise upon which they launch to gain access to children's minds. (evangelize)

2. Their object is to teach the ways and benefits of the Satanist Church, which is evangelizing. While at the same time they state that evangelizing on school grounds they do not support. Therefore their reason for wanting access to the school is either A. Duplicitous or B. For another reason... (grounds not to allow them there).

3. So they are phony, not representing what they say they are. They even admit that the word "Satan" is an attention-getter; you know, to susceptible and curious children they're trying to rope in (see "evangelize"). The group is a hate group because their stated intent and the intent of the same nationwide where this is going on is to be "fighting religious tyranny and oppression". Straight out of the chute they're declaring they're a group whose sole goal is to impart to children to hate or hold potent disdain in a generalized way for other organized religions. They are a hate group because hating other groups in a generalized way is what KKK does. It's what any bigot does without examining the merits of individuals within that group. And hate groups are not allowed to use schools or other public facilities.

4. Dear district: See #3. There's only one way this group can gain legal access to school campuses, and that is if nazis can hold clubs on school grounds while stating the purpose of those meetings is to teach or otherwise impart disdain or hatred for Judaism.

You're welcome.

Congratulations. You have gone to the trouble of making a decision, but now all you need to do is become a judge and get appointed in the district that makes the decision on this case.

 

[IsaacNewton]

I think if I were in high school I would demand the cafeteria only serve spaghetti as I would profess worship of The Spaghetti Monster and he would approve of 'eating of his body' for spiritual nourishment.

 

[Silhouette]

Congratulations. You have gone to the trouble of making a decision, but now all you need to do is become a judge and get appointed in the district that makes the decision on this case.

Lawyers are the law. You'd know that if you spent any time in a courtroom. A judge is merely a referee. But the game is played out behind the Bar. I've given the school district in WA some meat and potatoes and some nice big hockey sticks to play the game with; when before they were playing with wet noodles and toothpicks.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

‘A 1991 Supreme Court ruling, Good News Club vs. Milford Central School District, stated that if schools allow any organization to use school property, they must allow all organizations — religious and secular — access, Bruner said.

“We don’t worship a deity,” he said. “We only see Satan as a metaphor for fighting religious tyranny and oppression.”

The temple has created a curriculum for the program, which Claypool said would be run by two adults who have been trained to teach it.

“Our curriculum is about teaching them logic, self-empowerment and reasoning,” he said. “The most Satanic thing about it is in the healthy snack — we have an apple.”’

From the above cited Supreme Court ruling:

“What matters for Free Speech Clause purposes is that there is no logical difference in kind between the invocation of Christianity by the Club and the invocation of teamwork, loyalty, or patriotism by other associations to provide a foundation for their lessons.”

Clearly teaching logic, self-empowerment, and reasoning, as well as opposing religious tyranny and oppression, is as legitimate as any religious dogma, and is just as valuable as teaching teamwork, loyalty, or patriotism – for the school district to deny the Temple access to the after-school program would likewise violate the Temple’s free speech rights.

 

[occupied]

The satanists need to go international and open a chaper in Yemen.

The impulse that would make a Muslim murder a Satanist and a Christian deny them religious freedom is the the same thing, they differ only in method.

 

[FA_Q2]

“Our curriculum is about teaching them logic, self-empowerment and reasoning,” he said. “The most Satanic thing about it is in the healthy snack — we have an apple.”’

I missed that. Hilarious

 

[Montrovant]

Congratulations. You have gone to the trouble of making a decision, but now all you need to do is become a judge and get appointed in the district that makes the decision on this case.

Lawyers are the law. You'd know that if you spent any time in a courtroom. A judge is merely a referee. But the game is played out behind the Bar. I've given the school district in WA some meat and potatoes and some nice big hockey sticks to play the game with; when before they were playing with wet noodles and toothpicks.

I'm sure the courts are hanging on your every word.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Aren't true 'Satanist' or Satan Worship an actual religion and/or the religious worship of a deity? THAT would fall under the right of access for religious purposes....but this group isn't that by their own admission and so they shouldn't be allowed on campus period. They aren't apart of a religious sect so they can't demand access under religious grounds or freedoms.

I grew up in a hardcore Christian home and community. I can tell you from long sad experience that most Christians do not make the distinction between sin and sinner. All I am is an atheist and 3/4 of my family has not spoken to me for over 20 years. The rest are hateful as hell all because I decided I no longer wanted to attend church three time s a week. Don't try to tell how Christians are, I know how they are when they drop all pretense of public piety.

Your unfortunate and wayward example does not a religion make. I feel sorry for you. I grew up similarly but learned not to hate an entire group just because of the sins of two or three of them against me personally.

Well that's awesome, try calling some of your fellow Christians out for hypocrisy and see how fast they turn on you. My case is far from unique, the gay people I have met that can never go home again is far too common. What kind of indoctrination could make anyone turn their backs on their own child?

and what does that have to do with anything???

As was pointed out, access is required for any group regardless of religion. Weather or not they are religious is rather irrelevant - they have the same right of access as the chess club.

true enough, but isn't their demand of access religious based?

Either/or it's still a hate group

 

[BULLDOG]

Congratulations. You have gone to the trouble of making a decision, but now all you need to do is become a judge and get appointed in the district that makes the decision on this case.

Lawyers are the law. You'd know that if you spent any time in a courtroom. A judge is merely a referee. But the game is played out behind the Bar. I've given the school district in WA some meat and potatoes and some nice big hockey sticks to play the game with; when before they were playing with wet noodles and toothpicks.

No. Lawyers aren't the law. The law is the law. Lawyers just try to form an argument based on the law. The judge is actually the judge. That's why they don't call him the referee. It's interesting that you think you are more knowledgeable of the law and this case than the lawyers who are actually involved in it. It's funny, that you actually think the judge is nothing more than a referee.

 

[Silhouette]

I'm sure the courts are hanging on your every word.

I'm not going to be the lawyer for the school arguing that teaching children to hate or disdain "the religious" is not allowed on school grounds.

 

[Montrovant]

Aren't true 'Satanist' or Satan Worship an actual religion and/or the religious worship of a deity? THAT would fall under the right of access for religious purposes....but this group isn't that by their own admission and so they shouldn't be allowed on campus period. They aren't apart of a religious sect so they can't demand access under religious grounds or freedoms.

I grew up in a hardcore Christian home and community. I can tell you from long sad experience that most Christians do not make the distinction between sin and sinner. All I am is an atheist and 3/4 of my family has not spoken to me for over 20 years. The rest are hateful as hell all because I decided I no longer wanted to attend church three time s a week. Don't try to tell how Christians are, I know how they are when they drop all pretense of public piety.

Your unfortunate and wayward example does not a religion make. I feel sorry for you. I grew up similarly but learned not to hate an entire group just because of the sins of two or three of them against me personally.

Well that's awesome, try calling some of your fellow Christians out for hypocrisy and see how fast they turn on you. My case is far from unique, the gay people I have met that can never go home again is far too common. What kind of indoctrination could make anyone turn their backs on their own child?

and what does that have to do with anything???

As was pointed out, access is required for any group regardless of religion. Weather or not they are religious is rather irrelevant - they have the same right of access as the chess club.

true enough, but isn't their demand of access religious based?

Either/or it's still a hate group

What makes them a hate group?