Wage Strikes Planned at Fast-Food Outlets

[Wry Catcher]

Do you actually believe that if you raise their wages that others that currently make more, in tougher positions won't either demand more, or take their jobs? When everyone gets their additional pay, rents and other costs will also raise to and the fasts food workers are back where they started.

Within a few years they are back in the same economic position they were in to start with

Brilliant

Hail, hail, the Slippery Slope, another popular logical fallacy third to the always popular ad hominem and Straw Man. Yep, "Brilliant" in lesser minds.

Of course there is some truth to what the lesser mind posted, consider how executive management has parlayed the enormous salary and benefits of others in executive positions. Today's CEO compensation is now nearly 273 times as much as the people they employ.

"A report released yesterday by the Economic Policy Institute confirms what many already knew: CEOs are getting raises far bigger and faster than the people they employ—and they now make nearly 273 times as much, on average."

Link: CEO Pay Has Risen More Than Twice As Much As The Stock Market - Forbes

Hail, hail the deflection to to an argument about CEO pay.

You simply can't make this stuff up. Lesser minds deflect

Are you on crack?

 

[The Rabbi]

Wow, what a very naive comment.

I wonder how many employees working in the fast food industry did you interviewed before coming to this conclusion. You must have missed those with no transportation and needed to walk to work; the single moms who needed to be home and might need to work a split shift simply to care for her kids; the high school kid who hoped to save for college since his parents could not afford to help her; and the seniors whose social security and Medicare benefits no longer provided them sufficient resources to eat, pay the rent and buy their medicine without supplemental income.

I wonder if you, Jughead, live in the real world or in the fantasy world of the ideologue where everyone who works hard lives the American Dream, doors open for them almost by magic, kids never get sick and schedulers at work make life easier.

WTF do you know about any of it? When was the last time you worked a min wage job?
No one is forced to work in this country. No one is forced to live anywhere. People make choices, something liberals are opposed to.

And anyway, increasing min wage reduces the number of jobs available. Look at the graph of teen unemployment (teens are most likely to hold min wage jobs) compared to rises in min wage rates. They parallel almost perfectly. Raising the min wage gives less choice of jobs, and fewer of them.

You're full of shit. You simply repeat 'statistics' without an ounce of proof. Suggesting teens are most likely to work minimum wage jobs is ridiculous, but, I'll allow you to provide evidence before I once again call you a liar. Oh, and don't post a conservative blog as evidence, that too is a ridiculous strategy of your kind.

You're just itching to have your ass handed to you, arent you?
OK, I assume you'll take the BLS as unbiased, right?

Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)

 

[The Rabbi]

Hail, hail, the Slippery Slope, another popular logical fallacy third to the always popular ad hominem and Straw Man. Yep, "Brilliant" in lesser minds.

Of course there is some truth to what the lesser mind posted, consider how executive management has parlayed the enormous salary and benefits of others in executive positions. Today's CEO compensation is now nearly 273 times as much as the people they employ.

"A report released yesterday by the Economic Policy Institute confirms what many already knew: CEOs are getting raises far bigger and faster than the people they employ—and they now make nearly 273 times as much, on average."

Link: CEO Pay Has Risen More Than Twice As Much As The Stock Market - Forbes

Hail, hail the deflection to to an argument about CEO pay.

You simply can't make this stuff up. Lesser minds deflect

Are you on crack?

No but you must be to think anyone is buying an argument about ceo pay in this discussion.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The millionaire CEO. This is obvious. Investment drives expansion, not spending. Sure, you need some spending but it is investment in new equipment, new facilities, new business that creates growth. A tax cut for a millionaire produces more jobs in new industries. A tax cut for a min wage worker (who pays no tax anyway but so what) produces another sale of a big screen TV.
It is thinking that people spending money grows the economy that has resulted in the worst economic performance out of a recession than ever.

Investment is gambling.

Investment doesn't produce jobs or commerce. Consumer demand does.

Therefore, wages should be given the higher consideration over investment.

Investment doesnt produce jobs? What do you think happens when companies get started or expand? The tooth fairy delivers the money?
Of course for a guy whose work experience consists of hanging around a union hall griping about other people what could anyone expect?

Why would a CEO or small business owner expand his/her business when the market for his/her product no longer exists? Did you not see all the retail store property empty after the crash of '08.

Sometimes what happens when companies expand they move their assets overseas.

Sometimes they hire employees without the legal right to work in the United States.

Investment does produce jobs, which is why the Obama Administration and most Democrats supported the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Why didn't the GOP and the self proclaimed Conservatives who post here?

 

[Katzndogz]

The employees aren't protesting. Professional protesters hired by the SEIU are doing the protesting. The SEIU is suffering a massive reduction in membership. They have to increase the number of union members.

 

[Wry Catcher]

WTF do you know about any of it? When was the last time you worked a min wage job?
No one is forced to work in this country. No one is forced to live anywhere. People make choices, something liberals are opposed to.

And anyway, increasing min wage reduces the number of jobs available. Look at the graph of teen unemployment (teens are most likely to hold min wage jobs) compared to rises in min wage rates. They parallel almost perfectly. Raising the min wage gives less choice of jobs, and fewer of them.

You're full of shit. You simply repeat 'statistics' without an ounce of proof. Suggesting teens are most likely to work minimum wage jobs is ridiculous, but, I'll allow you to provide evidence before I once again call you a liar. Oh, and don't post a conservative blog as evidence, that too is a ridiculous strategy of your kind.

You're just itching to have your ass handed to you, arent you?
OK, I assume you'll take the BLS as unbiased, right?

Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)

Let's break down your 'proof'. You claimed teens, the evidence supplied reports out,

"Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THOSE UNDER 25 WHERE TEENAGERS, WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL, WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE ON THEIR OWN AND WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE SINGLE MOMS? Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. "

Where is your proof to verify this statement: "And anyway, increasing min wage reduces the number of jobs available".

 

[The Rabbi]

You're full of shit. You simply repeat 'statistics' without an ounce of proof. Suggesting teens are most likely to work minimum wage jobs is ridiculous, but, I'll allow you to provide evidence before I once again call you a liar. Oh, and don't post a conservative blog as evidence, that too is a ridiculous strategy of your kind.

You're just itching to have your ass handed to you, arent you?
OK, I assume you'll take the BLS as unbiased, right?

Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)

Let's break down your 'proof'. You claimed teens, the evidence supplied reports out,

"Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THOSE UNDER 25 WHERE TEENAGERS, WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL, WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE ON THEIR OWN AND WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE SINGLE MOMS? Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. "

Where is your proof to verify this statement: "And anyway, increasing min wage reduces the number of jobs available".

Was that supposed to be some kind of refutation?
I posted proof for both things. Teens overwhelmingly make up min wage workers.
Rises in min wage cause rising unemployment for teens.
This isn't hard, really.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You're just itching to have your ass handed to you, arent you?
OK, I assume you'll take the BLS as unbiased, right?

Let's break down your 'proof'. You claimed teens, the evidence supplied reports out,

"Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THOSE UNDER 25 WHERE TEENAGERS, WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL, WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE ON THEIR OWN AND WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE SINGLE MOMS? Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. "

Where is your proof to verify this statement: "And anyway, increasing min wage reduces the number of jobs available".

Was that supposed to be some kind of refutation?
I posted proof for both things. Teens overwhelmingly make up min wage workers.
Rises in min wage cause rising unemployment for teens.
This isn't hard, really.

Define teen. I simply pointed out in red how misleading simple stats can be and usually are.

Five myths about the minimum wage - Washington Post

 

[Wry Catcher]

"So what’s the discrepancy between theory and what so many economists think? When economists have analyzed the data, many have found few, if any, negative effects of a minimum wage on employment. This has shifted some of the thinking in the profession — and pointed to flaws in a perfectly competitive model.

"Paying workers more often leads them to feel better about their work and reduces stress, both of which increase productivity. And when workers produce more, employers’ labor costs fall. Companies such as Costco have figured this out, and voluntarily pay higher wages. Other firms may not care whether they pay less and get less from their workers, or pay more and get more."

Link:

Five myths about the minimum wage - Washington Post

 

[expat_panama]

...When economists have analyzed the data, many have found few, if any, negative effects of a minimum wage on employment...

--and the other economists who're not on the payroll of Marxist ideologues know it's obvious minimum wage laws don't raise wages, they just make it illegal to hire the bottom segment of the labor pool.

Work with me on this; making illegal the hiring of a group people has simply got to increase the employment level of that group of people.








Am I still going too fast for everyone here?

 

[rdean]

USMB Republicans on disability attacking workers on minimum wage. Didn't see that coming.

 

[Kimura]

Increasing the minimum wage won’t impose any increased costs. The costs are, by every metric, minimal. Firms can adjust in other ways besides laying off employees or closing their doors.
We should look at this from the monopsony approach to labor. Employers have real costs when they hire new workers, even those in the low-wage sections of our labor market. Workers also have costs, such as locating and securing employment, transportation costs, other expenditures, etc. These people tend to limit their employment search to locations and the availability of transportation. In order to overcome these hurdles, employers may hire workers for more than the minimum wage, to fill open positions or they’ll have to wait. The end result is lost output for businesses until these jobs can be filled by people willing to accept a certain wage. The unemployed do face real and tangible constraints, such as $$$$, transportation, etc.

If you initially look at the problem, it seems this scenario wouldn't be beneficial to employers, since they have to offer higher wages for more employees. In real terms, such problems put low wage employees at quite a disadvantage to their employers.

Low wage employers are in a good position to take advantage of these problems. Basically, employers have to pay new employees a higher wage to fill job vacancies in a timely fashion, but they can still pay current employees less than their marginal product, even though these workers had to overcome certain constraints.

The monopsony model tells us that employers will not pay a higher wage for any job openings since they would have to match the increase for their current employees. In this monopsonistic situation, employers constantly have open positions, as opposed to paying a higher wage to their employees. If we increase the minimum wage, it will increase employment by raising wages of current employees to a more competitive level. By competitive level, I mean no positions were lost due to employees being paid under their marginal product or filling up job openings which would raise overall employment levels.

 

[The Rabbi]

Let's break down your 'proof'. You claimed teens, the evidence supplied reports out,

"Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THOSE UNDER 25 WHERE TEENAGERS, WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL, WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE ON THEIR OWN AND WHAT PERCENTAGE WERE SINGLE MOMS? Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. "

Where is your proof to verify this statement: "And anyway, increasing min wage reduces the number of jobs available".

Was that supposed to be some kind of refutation?
I posted proof for both things. Teens overwhelmingly make up min wage workers.
Rises in min wage cause rising unemployment for teens.
This isn't hard, really.

Define teen. I simply pointed out in red how misleading simple stats can be and usually are.

Five myths about the minimum wage - Washington Post

You are playing semantic games. And losing.
Posting crap articles from lib outlets does not change that.

 

[Kimura]

USMB Republicans on disability attacking workers on minimum wage. Didn't see that coming.

It seem like attacking workers is something both reactionaries and neoliberals can agree on. These people won't be happy until our society resembles feudal Europe.

 

[Pop23]

Nothing is stopping a lot of these people from working two jobs. Not hearing that talked about.

 

[Kimura]

By the way, for the sake of the op, wage floors can raise pay and employment. The is based on the concept of employers having monopsony as the buyers of labor. If an employer can set ALL wages, they can effectively keep wages below any competitive rates. Many economists disagreed with this until about twenty or so years ago.

I'd like to point people to the New Jersey fast food study (click here) which clearly demonstrated that raising the minimum wage increased overall employment. If we use supply and demand as a gauge, then yeah, it would follow that increasing wages would increase unemployment, but this simply isn't the case in reality. The labor market is much different in the real world. I would also point research in other OECD countries, such as Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Norway, Italy, Japan, etc.

 

[Meathead]

The caliber of many fast food employees is succinctly qualified here: Barefoot Taco Employee Latest in Grossest Viral Fast-Food Moments - ABC News

 

[The Rabbi]

By the way, for the sake of the op, wage floors can raise pay and employment. The is based on the concept of employers having monopsony as the buyers of labor. If an employer can set ALL wages, they can effectively keep wages below any competitive rates. Many economists disagreed with this until about twenty or so years ago.

I'd like to point people to the New Jersey fast food study (click here) which clearly demonstrated that raising the minimum wage increased overall employment. If we use supply and demand as a gauge, then yeah, it would follow that increasing wages would increase unemployment, but this simply isn't the case in reality. The labor market is much different in the real world. I would also point research in other OECD countries, such as Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Norway, Italy, Japan, etc.

Darn I was hoping your post was a one time thing and we could all ignore it.
Now I see you are doubling down on stupid.
For starters, the NJ study did not consider survivor bias.

 

[Kimura]

By the way, for the sake of the op, wage floors can raise pay and employment. The is based on the concept of employers having monopsony as the buyers of labor. If an employer can set ALL wages, they can effectively keep wages below any competitive rates. Many economists disagreed with this until about twenty or so years ago.

I'd like to point people to the New Jersey fast food study (click here) which clearly demonstrated that raising the minimum wage increased overall employment. If we use supply and demand as a gauge, then yeah, it would follow that increasing wages would increase unemployment, but this simply isn't the case in reality. The labor market is much different in the real world. I would also point research in other OECD countries, such as Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Norway, Italy, Japan, etc.

Darn I was hoping your post was a one time thing and we could all ignore it.
Now I see you are doubling down on stupid.
For starters, the NJ study did not consider survivor bias.

It was a DID study. The data sets included NJ/PA fast food restaurants. I really didn't see any type of selection bias and/or omitted variables.

 

[expat_panama]

...won’t impose any increased costs. The costs are, by every metric, minimal...

Wow, in the time it took to read eight words the costs went from nothing to minimal. I figured I'd better stop reading because they'd be hitting the excessive level if I went much further, but I didn't--

...Firms can adjust...

Of course they can, by laying off workers that that can no longer pay their keep.

See, everyone's different, and our labor all comes with different market prices based on how much profit we bring in. Companies got no problem with an employee only able of bringing in 6$/hour profit, so long as they don't have to pay more than $5.99/hr. Make it illegal to hire for $5.99 and the poor guy gets laid off.

This really isn't rocket science.