Walter Cronkite's Ridiculous Spin on the 1968 Tet Offensive in South Vietnam

[Soupnazi630]

The only thing you taught me is how stupid some people are and you take the biscuit.

I taught you facts boy you spun yourself into a corner

Do not call others stupid son you are just projecting and it is unbecoming

 

[Hector12]

Just admit it douchebag you are wrong and full of crap

It was minh who refused it and then became the aggressor no matyter how much you butch and scream to the contrary

Ho Chi Minh should have known he would win a nation wide election. Ngô Đình Diệm had little support in South Vietnam and virtually none in North Vietnam.

 

[Robert W]

Communist China would not have allowed the United States to conquer all of North Korea without a fight.

I must learn more. Do you represent the Chinese interests?

 

[Hector12]

It is instructive to compare what President Eisenhower really said with what Greene and the others quote:

I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly eighty percent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai. Indeed, the lack of leadership and drive on the part of Bao Dai was a factor in the feeling prevalent among Vietnamese that they had nothing to fight for. (Emphasis added to denote omissions).

Thus, (1) President Eisenhower was talking about an election which might have taken place in 1954, not 1956 (and the situation in both North and South Vietnam during this two-year period changed significantly to Ho Chi Minh's disadvantage, as will be shown shortly); and (2) he was talking about a contest between Ho and the French puppet Bao Dai. There is little question that Ngo Dinh Diem would have defeated Bao Dai by eighty percent of the vote, too. The "feeling prevalent among Vietnamese that they had nothing to fight for" was largely the result of having a choice between a French puppet and a Communist dictator, when the majority of Vietnamese really wanted a true nationalist. (pp. 32-33)

The 80% figure is the best estimate of Ho Chi Minh's popularity we have, without an opinion survey.

 

[Hector12]

I must learn more. Do you represent the Chinese interests?

We know that the Chinese did enter the Korean War. That is a better estimate of their determination than anything you have.

 

[Robert W]

Ho Chi Minh should have known he would win a nation wide election. Ngô Đình Diệm had little support in South Vietnam and virtually none in North Vietnam.

It is my observation that your support of Ho Chi Minh was not supported by the Southern part of Vietnam.

 

[Robert W]

The 80% figure is the best estimate of Ho Chi Minh's popularity we have, without an opinion survey.

Ho had vanished from Vietnam for 30 years. Why do you think he was popular in all of Vietnam?

 

[Soupnazi630]

The 80% figure is the best estimate of Ho Chi Minh's popularity we have, without an opinion survey.

No it is not

it is a weak and stupiod estimate

You keep overlooking that kost vietnamese did not support one side or the other

 

[Robert W]

We know that the Chinese did enter the Korean War. That is a better estimate of their determination than anything you have.

My contention is had Truman done right, Doug would have had plenty of forces to halt the Chinese.

 

[Deadstick]

I did read it ASSWIPE

and it does not prove anything to the contrary of what i taught you

From the mouth of Diem himself read and learn Kid.
20 July
The date specified in the Geneva Accords for national elections to re-unify North and South Vietnam. The elections were not held because President Diem said South Vietnam was not a party to the Accords. Most observers believe that Ho Chi Minh would have won the elections easily[16]: 649–51 [24]

 

[Hector12]

My contention is had Truman done right, Doug would have had plenty of forces to halt the Chinese.

We will never know, will we? What we do know is that MacArthur's recklessness prolonged the war for another three years, leaving North Korea intact.

 

[Robert W]

We will never know, will we? What we do know is that MacArthur's recklessness prolonged the war for another three years, leaving North Korea intact.

I still get shocked when the Communists side shows up to discuss wars.

 

[Soupnazi630]

From the mouth of Diem himself read and learn Kid.
20 July
The date specified in the Geneva Accords for national elections to re-unify North and South Vietnam. The elections were not held because President Diem said South Vietnam was not a party to the Accords. Most observers believe that Ho Chi Minh would have won the elections easily[16]: 649–51 [24]

That is not a link.

You simply typed it

Here is a link.

Ho Chi Minh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And here is the relative passage from that link

By the afternoon of 20 July 1954, the remaining outstanding issues were resolved as the parties agreed that the partition line should be at the 17th parallel and the elections for a reunified government should be held in July 1956, two years after the ceasefire.[85] The Agreement on the Cessation of Hostilities in Vietnam was only signed by the French and Việt Minh military commands, with no participation or consultation of the State of Vietnam.[86] Based on a proposal by Chinese delegation head Zhou Enlai, an International Control Commission (ICC) chaired by India, with Canada and Poland as members, was placed in charge of supervising the ceasefire.[87][88] Because issues were to be decided unanimously, Poland's presence in the ICC provided the Communists with effective veto power over supervision of the treaty.[89] The unsigned Final Declaration of the Geneva Conference called for reunification elections, which the majority of delegates expected to be supervised by the ICC. The Việt Minh never accepted ICC authority over such elections, insisting that the ICC's "competence was to be limited to the supervision and control of the implementation of the Agreement on the Cessation of Hostilities by both parties".[90] Of the nine nations represented, only the United States and the State of Vietnam refused to accept the declaration. Undersecretary of state Walter Bedell Smith delivered a "unilateral declaration" of the United States position, reiterating: "We shall seek to achieve unity through free elections supervised by the United Nations to ensure that they are conducted fairly".[91]

Minh refused elections if overseen by others.

Sorry boyu as always you are full of shit

Ming refused elctions and attacked another nation

 

[Hector12]

I still get shocked when the Communists side shows up to discuss wars.

If that is directed against me, I think Karl Marx had two valid insights, and that he was mistaken about everything else.

 

[AZrailwhale]

With Trump any lie rings true. He was a high school athlete. His bone spurs did not cause him any problems then.

Mine didn't cause me problems either. They were found when my foot was checked with an ultrasound to find a piece of glass from a coke bottle that I had stepped on. But the Army still wanted to throw me out despite all the training I had and the proven fact that the bone spurs didn't restrict me in any way.

 

[AZrailwhale]

American troops on the Chinese border they would see as a threat.

American troop never reached the Yalu. As far as I can tell, they never even got within seventy five miles of the border.

 

[AZrailwhale]

That is not a link.

You simply typed it

Here is a link.

Ho Chi Minh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And here is the relative passage from that link

By the afternoon of 20 July 1954, the remaining outstanding issues were resolved as the parties agreed that the partition line should be at the 17th parallel and the elections for a reunified government should be held in July 1956, two years after the ceasefire.[85] The Agreement on the Cessation of Hostilities in Vietnam was only signed by the French and Việt Minh military commands, with no participation or consultation of the State of Vietnam.[86] Based on a proposal by Chinese delegation head Zhou Enlai, an International Control Commission (ICC) chaired by India, with Canada and Poland as members, was placed in charge of supervising the ceasefire.[87][88] Because issues were to be decided unanimously, Poland's presence in the ICC provided the Communists with effective veto power over supervision of the treaty.[89] The unsigned Final Declaration of the Geneva Conference called for reunification elections, which the majority of delegates expected to be supervised by the ICC. The Việt Minh never accepted ICC authority over such elections, insisting that the ICC's "competence was to be limited to the supervision and control of the implementation of the Agreement on the Cessation of Hostilities by both parties".[90] Of the nine nations represented, only the United States and the State of Vietnam refused to accept the declaration. Undersecretary of state Walter Bedell Smith delivered a "unilateral declaration" of the United States position, reiterating: "We shall seek to achieve unity through free elections supervised by the United Nations to ensure that they are conducted fairly".[91]

Minh refused elections if overseen by others.

Sorry boyu as always you are full of shit

Ming refused elctions and attacked another nation

Totalitarian states never agree to free elections supervised by neutral parties. The PRVN refused to honor the deal, NOT the RVN.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Let's us try to see this as Douglas MacArthur saw it. Doug's experience at that point was his success at Inchon. Due to that, the lower part of Korea also was taken over by his force. And they were racing like they were greyhounds at a race. Doug could have finished had Truman backed him. Doug needed more forces at the top of Korea than he had. This allowed China to attack our military forces. China waged war very different. They would sacrifice troops all day long. And not mind them dying.

Mac Aurthur always had a staff of sycophants. The told him what he wanted to hear. He didn't want to hear that the Chinese were massing troops and were a threat, he wanted to be the big conqueror again.

 

[Robert W]

Mac Aurthur always had a staff of sycophants. The told him what he wanted to hear. He didn't want to hear that the Chinese were massing troops and were a threat, he wanted to be the big conqueror again.

It is real RARE General who is not like that. Bear in mind that at the time, our ability to have intelligence on the enemy or his friends was not like it is now. Today they see what you think Doug saw. But Doug had limits. I try to evaluate all Generals and leave out the insults against them.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Give it a rest you arsehole, that is why they were going to have a election to unify the Country, the election Diem refused.

Diem refused an election under communist supervision. We all know how those turned out in eastern Europe. Uncle Ho refused to allow the election to be supervised by a neutral party.