Warren and the Divine Right of Capital: Accountable Capitalism Act

[Grumblenuts]

Correct. You too.

I'll get right on that......even if it starves poor Cambodians.

Good, "patriot"! Then they can reopen their old stores. FREEDOM!

WalMart put their stores out of business? In Cambodia?

Stores, sewing shops, whatever!..

The company union told the workers that the company was bankrupt and the owner had fled the country.

The garment workers are owed around $200,000 collectively—less than what Walmart makes in profits every six minutes.

Since their boss-run union wouldn't fight back, 200 workers organized themselves and began protesting outside the factory gates January 1. In the middle of the night January 3, they noticed company staff attempting to remove the sewing machines from the factory.

“We decided to start sleeping outside of the factory to prevent management from taking the machinery out,” said Yorn Sok Leng, 30, who has worked at the factory for two years.

With the help of a worker center, the Community Legal Education Centre (CLEC), the workers occupied the outside of the factory—setting up tarps, a sleeping area, and a kitchen.

Stores, sewing shops, whatever!..

That's awful!

What were the names of the Cambodian "Stores [and] sewing shops" driven under by WalMart?

The company union told the workers that the company was bankrupt

A unionized company went out of business? How is that possible?

The garment workers are owed around $200,000 collectively—less than what Walmart makes in profits every six minutes.

That's awful! A company not owned or run by WalMart owes some non-WalMart workers some money.

There must be billions of non-WalMart workers around the world. Why should we care more about these
200 than the other billions plus?​

Who said anything about caring more? Oh, that must be you. Pretty sure I'm arguing with you.. but you just keep arguing with yourself..
Eww, you're a mess!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'll get right on that......even if it starves poor Cambodians.

Good, "patriot"! Then they can reopen their old stores. FREEDOM!

WalMart put their stores out of business? In Cambodia?

Stores, sewing shops, whatever!..

The company union told the workers that the company was bankrupt and the owner had fled the country.

The garment workers are owed around $200,000 collectively—less than what Walmart makes in profits every six minutes.

Since their boss-run union wouldn't fight back, 200 workers organized themselves and began protesting outside the factory gates January 1. In the middle of the night January 3, they noticed company staff attempting to remove the sewing machines from the factory.

“We decided to start sleeping outside of the factory to prevent management from taking the machinery out,” said Yorn Sok Leng, 30, who has worked at the factory for two years.

With the help of a worker center, the Community Legal Education Centre (CLEC), the workers occupied the outside of the factory—setting up tarps, a sleeping area, and a kitchen.

Stores, sewing shops, whatever!..

That's awful!

What were the names of the Cambodian "Stores [and] sewing shops" driven under by WalMart?

The company union told the workers that the company was bankrupt

A unionized company went out of business? How is that possible?

The garment workers are owed around $200,000 collectively—less than what Walmart makes in profits every six minutes.

That's awful! A company not owned or run by WalMart owes some non-WalMart workers some money.

There must be billions of non-WalMart workers around the world. Why should we care more about these
200 than the other billions plus?​

Who said anything about caring more? Oh, that must be you. Pretty sure I'm arguing with you.. but you just keep arguing with yourself..
Eww, you're a mess!

Who said anything about caring more?

Got it.....these workers don't matter more than any of the billions of other workers in the world.

You should have said that at the beginning.....expending all your energy whining about a few Cambodians.

You're right, who cares?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Who said "Who cares"? Oh, you again. What a mess you are.

It’s a familiar problem: multinational corporations use layers of subcontractors to duck responsibility.

Walmart in particular is notorious for failing to enforce its own rules. Its supplier standards make it responsible for contractors’ behavior, but instead of forcing improvements, when a factory is caught in violations, it is easiest for Walmart to cut and run—firing the contractor and leaving workers with nothing.

 

[dudmuck]

Because we have a market system based on ability to pay instead of need. There Are Alternatives.

Yeah, we've seen your alternatives. They suck. All of them suck. That's why you are not living in a commune right now.... are you? No you are not.

That's why every country that has tried your alternatives, has fallen into ruins. Why are you not living in Cuba right now? Or any other purely "according to their need" system?

And don't give me this crap about Europe either. I've been to Europe. You know how the poor live in Europe? Like they are poor. You know how the rich live in Europe? Like they are rich. See these Lego Dutch multi-billionaires, with a private horse farm, because daddies daughter likes to compete in Pony Shows... and you have some idiot in the US talking about how they are so much more "equal" over there. Garbage.

Your system does not work. Never has. Never will.

Trump was on Twitter calling for boycots of specific companies, encouraging the use of others, handing out my tax dollars as subsidies to farmers and billioniare business owners.

Thats your idea of free markets?

No of course not. That's why I didn't vote for him.

If you read something that is not a Free-Market Capitalist idea.... and I'm advocating Free-market Capitalism..... you are free to assume that I am not in support of an idea that isn't an idea I said I supported. Pretty easy.

Logic sir. Try it.

By the way, boycots are free-market capitalist ideas. You are free to go to...or not to go to... any company you do or do not wish to go to. That's free-market sir. Trump can't make me, or prevent me, from going anywhere. Free-market capitalism.

But subsidies.... no, I'm not in favor of taking money from one person, and giving it to another. I am not in favor of that when it is Medicare, Social Security, or Green-energy grants.

I'm against all subsidies. Again... I support free-market capitalism.

An explanation of how boycotts arent free market.

You might have a case if the boycott were called upon by a private individual, but when the highest government official is doing so, this is government intervention.

Subsidies: 9 of 10 counties that voted for Trump get subsidy.

You might have a case if the boycott were called upon by a private individual, but when the highest government official is doing so, this is government intervention.

Speaking about the economy at an event in New Hampshire, Mr Obama told Americans: “When times are tough, you tighten your belts.

“You don’t go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage. You don’t blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you’re trying to save for college. You prioritise. You make tough choices.”

The economy of the world’s most famous gambling and entertainment destination is heavily dependent on tourism and Las Vegans were already incensed by a comment from Mr Obama last year that companies should not use federal bail out money for trips to the city.


Barack Obama tells Americans 'don't go to Las Vegas'

You really want taxpayer funds to pay for play time in Las Vegas?

Obama was just telling people to spend money wisely when times are tough.
This is different than boycotting specific companies.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, we've seen your alternatives. They suck. All of them suck. That's why you are not living in a commune right now.... are you? No you are not.

That's why every country that has tried your alternatives, has fallen into ruins. Why are you not living in Cuba right now? Or any other purely "according to their need" system?

And don't give me this crap about Europe either. I've been to Europe. You know how the poor live in Europe? Like they are poor. You know how the rich live in Europe? Like they are rich. See these Lego Dutch multi-billionaires, with a private horse farm, because daddies daughter likes to compete in Pony Shows... and you have some idiot in the US talking about how they are so much more "equal" over there. Garbage.

Your system does not work. Never has. Never will.

Trump was on Twitter calling for boycots of specific companies, encouraging the use of others, handing out my tax dollars as subsidies to farmers and billioniare business owners.

Thats your idea of free markets?

No of course not. That's why I didn't vote for him.

If you read something that is not a Free-Market Capitalist idea.... and I'm advocating Free-market Capitalism..... you are free to assume that I am not in support of an idea that isn't an idea I said I supported. Pretty easy.

Logic sir. Try it.

By the way, boycots are free-market capitalist ideas. You are free to go to...or not to go to... any company you do or do not wish to go to. That's free-market sir. Trump can't make me, or prevent me, from going anywhere. Free-market capitalism.

But subsidies.... no, I'm not in favor of taking money from one person, and giving it to another. I am not in favor of that when it is Medicare, Social Security, or Green-energy grants.

I'm against all subsidies. Again... I support free-market capitalism.

An explanation of how boycotts arent free market.

You might have a case if the boycott were called upon by a private individual, but when the highest government official is doing so, this is government intervention.

Subsidies: 9 of 10 counties that voted for Trump get subsidy.

You might have a case if the boycott were called upon by a private individual, but when the highest government official is doing so, this is government intervention.

Speaking about the economy at an event in New Hampshire, Mr Obama told Americans: “When times are tough, you tighten your belts.

“You don’t go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage. You don’t blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you’re trying to save for college. You prioritise. You make tough choices.”

The economy of the world’s most famous gambling and entertainment destination is heavily dependent on tourism and Las Vegans were already incensed by a comment from Mr Obama last year that companies should not use federal bail out money for trips to the city.


Barack Obama tells Americans 'don't go to Las Vegas'

You really want taxpayer funds to pay for play time in Las Vegas?

Obama was just telling people to spend money wisely when times are tough.
This is different than boycotting specific companies.

​

Obama was just telling people to spend money wisely when times are tough.​

Yeah, he gave great advice.......​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who said "Who cares"? Oh, you again. What a mess you are.

It’s a familiar problem: multinational corporations use layers of subcontractors to duck responsibility.

Walmart in particular is notorious for failing to enforce its own rules. Its supplier standards make it responsible for contractors’ behavior, but instead of forcing improvements, when a factory is caught in violations, it is easiest for Walmart to cut and run—firing the contractor and leaving workers with nothing.

You care, you don't care......your whining is very convincing.

 

[Bush92]

Yeah, we've seen your alternatives. They suck. All of them suck. That's why you are not living in a commune right now.... are you? No you are not.

That's why every country that has tried your alternatives, has fallen into ruins. Why are you not living in Cuba right now? Or any other purely "according to their need" system?

And don't give me this crap about Europe either. I've been to Europe. You know how the poor live in Europe? Like they are poor. You know how the rich live in Europe? Like they are rich. See these Lego Dutch multi-billionaires, with a private horse farm, because daddies daughter likes to compete in Pony Shows... and you have some idiot in the US talking about how they are so much more "equal" over there. Garbage.

Your system does not work. Never has. Never will.

Trump was on Twitter calling for boycots of specific companies, encouraging the use of others, handing out my tax dollars as subsidies to farmers and billioniare business owners.

Thats your idea of free markets?

No of course not. That's why I didn't vote for him.

If you read something that is not a Free-Market Capitalist idea.... and I'm advocating Free-market Capitalism..... you are free to assume that I am not in support of an idea that isn't an idea I said I supported. Pretty easy.

Logic sir. Try it.

By the way, boycots are free-market capitalist ideas. You are free to go to...or not to go to... any company you do or do not wish to go to. That's free-market sir. Trump can't make me, or prevent me, from going anywhere. Free-market capitalism.

But subsidies.... no, I'm not in favor of taking money from one person, and giving it to another. I am not in favor of that when it is Medicare, Social Security, or Green-energy grants.

I'm against all subsidies. Again... I support free-market capitalism.

An explanation of how boycotts arent free market.

You might have a case if the boycott were called upon by a private individual, but when the highest government official is doing so, this is government intervention.

Subsidies: 9 of 10 counties that voted for Trump get subsidy.

You might have a case if the boycott were called upon by a private individual, but when the highest government official is doing so, this is government intervention.

Speaking about the economy at an event in New Hampshire, Mr Obama told Americans: “When times are tough, you tighten your belts.

“You don’t go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage. You don’t blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you’re trying to save for college. You prioritise. You make tough choices.”

The economy of the world’s most famous gambling and entertainment destination is heavily dependent on tourism and Las Vegans were already incensed by a comment from Mr Obama last year that companies should not use federal bail out money for trips to the city.


Barack Obama tells Americans 'don't go to Las Vegas'

You really want taxpayer funds to pay for play time in Las Vegas?

Obama was just telling people to spend money wisely when times are tough.
This is different than boycotting specific companies.

You are a complete ignorant idiot.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Yeah, we've seen your alternatives. They suck. All of them suck. That's why you are not living in a commune right now.... are you? No you are not.

That's why every country that has tried your alternatives, has fallen into ruins. Why are you not living in Cuba right now? Or any other purely "according to their need" system?

And don't give me this crap about Europe either. I've been to Europe. You know how the poor live in Europe? Like they are poor. You know how the rich live in Europe? Like they are rich. See these Lego Dutch multi-billionaires, with a private horse farm, because daddies daughter likes to compete in Pony Shows... and you have some idiot in the US talking about how they are so much more "equal" over there. Garbage.

Your system does not work. Never has. Never will.

Trump was on Twitter calling for boycots of specific companies, encouraging the use of others, handing out my tax dollars as subsidies to farmers and billioniare business owners.

Thats your idea of free markets?

No of course not. That's why I didn't vote for him.

If you read something that is not a Free-Market Capitalist idea.... and I'm advocating Free-market Capitalism..... you are free to assume that I am not in support of an idea that isn't an idea I said I supported. Pretty easy.

Logic sir. Try it.

By the way, boycots are free-market capitalist ideas. You are free to go to...or not to go to... any company you do or do not wish to go to. That's free-market sir. Trump can't make me, or prevent me, from going anywhere. Free-market capitalism.

But subsidies.... no, I'm not in favor of taking money from one person, and giving it to another. I am not in favor of that when it is Medicare, Social Security, or Green-energy grants.

I'm against all subsidies. Again... I support free-market capitalism.

An explanation of how boycotts arent free market.

You might have a case if the boycott were called upon by a private individual, but when the highest government official is doing so, this is government intervention.

Subsidies: 9 of 10 counties that voted for Trump get subsidy.

You might have a case if the boycott were called upon by a private individual, but when the highest government official is doing so, this is government intervention.

Speaking about the economy at an event in New Hampshire, Mr Obama told Americans: “When times are tough, you tighten your belts.

“You don’t go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage. You don’t blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you’re trying to save for college. You prioritise. You make tough choices.”

The economy of the world’s most famous gambling and entertainment destination is heavily dependent on tourism and Las Vegans were already incensed by a comment from Mr Obama last year that companies should not use federal bail out money for trips to the city.


Barack Obama tells Americans 'don't go to Las Vegas'

You really want taxpayer funds to pay for play time in Las Vegas?

Obama was just telling people to spend money wisely when times are tough.
This is different than boycotting specific companies.

There are a SHIT TON of conventions held in Vegas regarding virtually every profitable industry you can imagine, due in no small part to insanely affordable weekday lodging rates during non-Holiday periods and the fact that there are few cities as well set up for conventions as is Las Vegas. Thousands of companies send managers and employees to such conventions every year, and very few of these companies use company funds, regardless of the source, to fund the recreation in which those employees engage while in Vegas.

If you don't presume that everybody in the private sector is a robber baron, that advice doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Who said "Who cares"? Oh, you again. What a mess you are.

It’s a familiar problem: multinational corporations use layers of subcontractors to duck responsibility.

Walmart in particular is notorious for failing to enforce its own rules. Its supplier standards make it responsible for contractors’ behavior, but instead of forcing improvements, when a factory is caught in violations, it is easiest for Walmart to cut and run—firing the contractor and leaving workers with nothing.

You care, you don't care......your whining is very convincing.

For the record: I care. You don't. And proudly so. That much is obvious.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Who said "Who cares"? Oh, you again. What a mess you are.

It’s a familiar problem: multinational corporations use layers of subcontractors to duck responsibility.

Walmart in particular is notorious for failing to enforce its own rules. Its supplier standards make it responsible for contractors’ behavior, but instead of forcing improvements, when a factory is caught in violations, it is easiest for Walmart to cut and run—firing the contractor and leaving workers with nothing.

You care, you don't care......your whining is very convincing.

For the record: I care. You don't. And proudly so. That much is obvious.

Damn, dude. You're so virtuous. I stand here in awe at what a good person you are, and how much better you are than the people who don't agree with y-I mean, the people who don't care like you care.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who said "Who cares"? Oh, you again. What a mess you are.

It’s a familiar problem: multinational corporations use layers of subcontractors to duck responsibility.

Walmart in particular is notorious for failing to enforce its own rules. Its supplier standards make it responsible for contractors’ behavior, but instead of forcing improvements, when a factory is caught in violations, it is easiest for Walmart to cut and run—firing the contractor and leaving workers with nothing.

You care, you don't care......your whining is very convincing.

For the record: I care. You don't. And proudly so. That much is obvious.

For the record: I care.

For the record: You said WalMart forced them out of business. Forced their sewing shops and stores in Cambodia out of business.

So you're an idiot....For the record.

You don't. And proudly so.

I think they would do better making goods for WalMart than having no job at all.
But, as I said, billions around the world don't do any WalMart related work.
You should whine some more about those other billions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who said "Who cares"? Oh, you again. What a mess you are.

It’s a familiar problem: multinational corporations use layers of subcontractors to duck responsibility.

Walmart in particular is notorious for failing to enforce its own rules. Its supplier standards make it responsible for contractors’ behavior, but instead of forcing improvements, when a factory is caught in violations, it is easiest for Walmart to cut and run—firing the contractor and leaving workers with nothing.

You care, you don't care......your whining is very convincing.

For the record: I care. You don't. And proudly so. That much is obvious.

Damn, dude. You're so virtuous. I stand here in awe at what a good person you are, and how much better you are than the people who don't agree with y-I mean, the people who don't care like you care.

He's Like Mother Theresa...….a whining...err...walking saint.

 

[Markle]

For the record: I care. You don't. And proudly so. That much is obvious.

How can you say you care, with a straight face? You demand enforced, shared, equal poverty. How is that a good thing?

 

[georgephillip]

As I've pointed out on more than one occasion, socialism means society controls the means of production; government is one option, but so are worker self controlled enterprises.

This is horseshit equivocation. Society owns the means of production under capitalism.

This is horseshit equivocation. Society owns the means of production under capitalism.

You're confused.
A small, parasitic faction of society "own" the means of production under capitalism.
Currently those who control the most capital decide what, where, and when to produce goods or services. Unless your definition of "society" is limited to its richest one percent, your claim is Trump-level stupid.

I'm not confused, you're lying. The fact of the matter is, there are already "worker self controlled enterprises", and we can make more whenever we like. This doesn't require state control of the economy.

'm not confused, you're lying. The fact of the matter is, there are already "worker self controlled enterprises", and we can make more whenever we like. This doesn't require state control of the economy.

How would that affect the trading hub of the world's biggest economy? (Get ready for the meme, Mutt)

 

[Grumblenuts]

For the record: You said WalMart forced them out of business. Forced their sewing shops and stores in Cambodia out of business.

For the record, you don't know one way or the other. Directly or indirectly. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. And neither do I. But we both know it's happened and continues to happen right here in the U.S.. Big time. No denying that, son. Admit it. The Waltons ain't no saints nor saviors. They help themselves at huge taxpayer expense while fucking up people's lives and freedoms worldwide.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

For the record: You said WalMart forced them out of business. Forced their sewing shops and stores in Cambodia out of business.

For the record, you don't know one way or the other. Directly or indirectly. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. And neither do I. But we both know it's happened and continues to happen right here in the U.S.. Big time. No denying that, son. Admit it. The Waltons ain't no saints nor saviors. They help themselves at huge taxpayer expense while fucking up people's lives and freedoms worldwide.

For the record, you don't know one way or the other. Directly or indirectly. Maybe they did.

You made the claim and you had zero proof? That's funny.

They help themselves at huge taxpayer expense

That's funny too.....

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

For the record: You said WalMart forced them out of business. Forced their sewing shops and stores in Cambodia out of business.

For the record, you don't know one way or the other. Directly or indirectly. Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. And neither do I. But we both know it's happened and continues to happen right here in the U.S.. Big time. No denying that, son. Admit it. The Waltons ain't no saints nor saviors. They help themselves at huge taxpayer expense while fucking up people's lives and freedoms worldwide.

Out competing other businesses doesn't make you evil. Walmart put small companies out of business because they figured out a business model whereby they were able to offer comparable products at reduced prices, coupled with the convenience inherent to large department stores: The ability to get just about everything you might be shopping for all in one crack.

Maybe you hate Walmart. I certainly don't enjoy shopping there. But the fact that they did retail better than everybody else isn't inherently evil. When the early bird gets the worm, that isn't tantamount to the oppression of the sleepin'-in-bird. The sleepin'-in-bird's nourishment is his own responsibility, and the early bird didn't invent the scarcity that necessitates competition.

 

[georgephillip]

"Section 5(b)(2) requires US corporations to have the purpose of 'creating a general public benefit', while section 5(c) requires that directors have a duty to consider the interests of shareholders, employees (including of subsidiaries and suppliers), customers, the community, environment, and the long-term."

The United States is in a minority of countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development that gives no representation of the workforce in corporate governance.[2]

The theory/practical gap has already been witnessed George

They always find a way to pit one worker ant against another

~S~

The theory/practical gap has already been witnessed George

They always find a way to pit one worker ant against another

I think that's true for an economy that depends on private for-profit capitalists to supply a majority of jobs, but what about New Deal jobs? FDR created about ten million jobs when the US workforce totaled about 50 million workers. If we apply the same ratio to today's workforce of 160 million, a unionized Green New Deal could lay the foundation for an economy where a majority of workers decides what, where, and when production will occur.

If we apply the same ratio to today's workforce of 160 million, a unionized Green New Deal

We already have enough unionized government employees leeching off the taxpayer.
We don't need millions more wasting our tax dollars to build more expensive, less reliable "green energy" idiocy.

More production.
Less Finance.

MAGA much?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Section 5(b)(2) requires US corporations to have the purpose of 'creating a general public benefit', while section 5(c) requires that directors have a duty to consider the interests of shareholders, employees (including of subsidiaries and suppliers), customers, the community, environment, and the long-term."

The United States is in a minority of countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development that gives no representation of the workforce in corporate governance.[2]

The theory/practical gap has already been witnessed George

They always find a way to pit one worker ant against another

~S~

The theory/practical gap has already been witnessed George

They always find a way to pit one worker ant against another

I think that's true for an economy that depends on private for-profit capitalists to supply a majority of jobs, but what about New Deal jobs? FDR created about ten million jobs when the US workforce totaled about 50 million workers. If we apply the same ratio to today's workforce of 160 million, a unionized Green New Deal could lay the foundation for an economy where a majority of workers decides what, where, and when production will occur.

If we apply the same ratio to today's workforce of 160 million, a unionized Green New Deal

We already have enough unionized government employees leeching off the taxpayer.
We don't need millions more wasting our tax dollars to build more expensive, less reliable "green energy" idiocy.

More production.
Less Finance.

MAGA much?

Finance is useful. Finance adds value.

Unlike you.

Why don't you show the same chart for government? DURR.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Maybe you hate Walmart. I certainly don't enjoy shopping there.

Fine admission.

But the fact that they did retail better than everybody else isn't inherently evil.

Never said it was. But never let facts stop you..
The consistent problem is having too much, just as having too little is obviously a problem. Not being too clever.