Was Jesus Gay?

[BluePhantom]

Hmmmmm....no proof jesus exsisted outside of the self testimony of the new testament...... But i digress people should ask themselves was it normal in the time of jesus for men to not have wives and children...if gd is a gd of procreation and he wanted people to go forth and multiply and we are blessed by our children then would not jesus behaviour be seen as contrary to the teachings of the time and would not jesus stick out like a sore thumb if he was indeed a jew as it is argued......definately food for thought....

Contrary to popular myth Jewish men were not forced by any social or religious code to marry nor would it have been possible. So many women died in childbirth that adult men outnumbered adult women by a pretty good margin. There was simply not enough women to go around for every man to have a wife.

That is absolute nonsense a man as popular as jesus was according to the stories in the new testament would have had what few women you claim avaliable absolutely throwing themselves at him...he was everybit as popular as a rock star is today and we all know that even if they are not attractive men they have women literally throwing themselves at them so your point is rediculous....he would have had his pick no matter the supposed scarcity...

That's not the point I was referring to. You had made the statement "people should ask themselves was it normal in the time of Jesus for men to not have wives and children". The answer is most men did but being unmarried was hardly a rarity because there were not enough women for all men to have a wife. Therefore, simply because Jesus was unmarried is not evidence that he was gay. There were lots of unmarried men in His time. Could He have married? Probably. Why didn't He? Who fucking knows. Maybe it just wasn't important to Him. Maybe He had higher priorities. Maybe He knew He was going to die and didn't wish to widow a wife. Maybe He thought it was pointless. There is any number of reasons why He chose not to marry. We don't know what was in His mind. Jumping to the conclusion that He was gay is laughable. One is just picking one out of any number of reasons and insisting that is the reason.

Now if Jesus was gay it would not change how I feel about Him in the least bit, but there's no evidence to support the claim so it's really nothing more than something activists made up in order to give their own lives more validity and justification.

 

[aris2chat]

Was Jesus Gay?


Interesting piece, interesting ideas.

As it turns out, this is not a unique theory. Dr. Reverend Bob Shore-Goss, an openly gay senior pastor, has written several books on the subject, including Queering Christ and Jesus ACTED UP: A Gay and Lesbian Manifesto. He holds a doctorate degree in Comparative Religion from Harvard, and he serves on the National Advisory Board of the Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies in Religion. Oh, and he believes that Jesus was gay. I got in touch with Reverend Goss, who laid out the Biblical evidence and explained how his theory plays out.

Some more facts from the article:

Does Jesus himself ever address that?
As a matter of fact, one of Jesus's miracles is the healing the Centurion's boy. It's in Matthew and Luke. Matthew uses the word "pais"—you get the word pederasty from it, it means youth—to describe this boy, who is essentially a concubine to the Centurian. It's an erotic relationship. He comes to Jesus and asks for his boy to be healed. And Jesus asks if he should heal him, and he says, "I'm not worthy that you should come under my roof, but say the word and my boy will be healed." Jesus says about the faith of the Centurion, who is in a homoerotic relationship, that "there is no greater faith than I've encountered in Israel."

What's great about that is that every time you go to communion on Sunday, millions of Catholics say, "Lord, I'm not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." They're uttering this homoerotic phrase that was uttered by a Centurion in an actual homosexual relationship with a youth. We've just sanitized that and forgotten those sort of things in the meantime. But a church of the second century would understand that this is a homosexual relationship and it wasn't a big deal.

both mark and secret mark strongly imply he 'lay' with a naked young man who he raised from the dead.
even suggestions by scholars that judus also was gay.

 

[shimon]

Blue phantom do you have proo that there were not availiable enough women...show me the proof...further the rest of your post is conjecture and others have shown where one of the converged characters could have been gay thus tainting the jesus character in mark and secret mark....it should be noted that homosexuality was not unknown in this time frame there is conjecture that ariostotle taught his students other things and that roman soldiers that were in the companionship of other men without women around might have been prone to these acts...i have often wondered about squires with the knights in england etc etc..i could ho on and on...

 

[aris2chat]

Blue phantom do you have proo that there were not availiable enough women...show me the proof...further the rest of your post is conjecture and others have shown where one of the converged characters could have been gay thus tainting the jesus character in mark and secret mark....it should be noted that homosexuality was not unknown in this time frame there is conjecture that ariostotle taught his students other things and that roman soldiers that were in the companionship of other men without women around might have been prone to these acts...i have often wondered about squires with the knights in england etc etc..i could ho on and on...

Homosexuality and even gay marriage is more ancient that the bible or torah. Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt had records of gay marriage.

 

[shimon]

Very true...even in the animal kingdom it is rampant...we could talk on this subject in depth but it would take us off the post.......if there was a civilization before ours as is briefly mentioned before noah then that was also spoken of

 

[aris2chat]

Very true...even in the animal kingdom it is rampant...we could talk on this subject in depth but it would take us off the post.......if there was a civilization before ours as is briefly mentioned before noah then that was also spoken of

All part of nature's design. Even goes back to the time of dinosaurs 65 million years ago.

In a world with over population, why are gays viewed with such contempt? They are not a threat to heterosexual couples that want to marry and raise families. Gay couples that raise children have no higher rate in those children of being homosexual that a heterosexual couple.
Marriage is a civil union. Religious marriage is more of a slavery contract than a union of love. This is the standard by which marriage is judged? Women as property and subject to the whims of their husbands? Marriage that was often between a man and many women? Wives and daughters that could be sold off?
Biblical marriage was no piece of cake for women. Often they were too young and far too many died in childbirth.

Christian sex in marriage was very dull and gave little consideration to the women's desires. At least jews and muslims required that women had a right to satisfaction in sex. If their husbands could not meet their needs the women could divorce their husbands. Christianity for centuries tried to prevent divorce. Now they have changed their tune.

Biblical marriage is nothing to be celebrated.
.........and the church really wants it as the gold standard?

 

[BluePhantom]

Blue phantom do you have proo that there were not availiable enough women...show me the proof...further the rest of your post is conjecture and others have shown where one of the converged characters could have been gay thus tainting the jesus character in mark and secret mark....it should be noted that homosexuality was not unknown in this time frame there is conjecture that ariostotle taught his students other things and that roman soldiers that were in the companionship of other men without women around might have been prone to these acts...i have often wondered about squires with the knights in england etc etc..i could ho on and on...

Well some basic common sense is all you need, but if you insist we can start here.

"In ancient Rome, childbirth was a hazardous event for both mother and child with high rates of infant and maternal mortality. Traditional Roman medicine centred on folklore and religious practices, but with the development of Hippocratic medicine came significant advances in the care of women during pregnancy and confinement. Midwives or obstetrices played an important role and applied rational scientific practices to improve outcomes. This evolution from folklore to obstetrics was a pivotal point in the history of childbirth........Childbirth in Roman society was associated with a high risk to both the fetus and the mother, with substantial infant and maternal mortality. The ancient literature provides abundant evidence of the hazards involved.."

Childbirth in ancient Rome From traditional folklore to obstetrics - TODMAN - 2007 - Australian and New Zealand Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology - Wiley Online Library

Now we can turn to here....

"Historians speculate that the infant and mortality rates in antiquity were probably similar to premodern rates, even though women in classical Greece married before the age of twenty while the average age of marriage for premodern women was twenty-five. Later marriage correlated to a lower overall risk to mother and baby."

Great so what were the pre-modern rates?

"Studies by Roger Schofield, B. M. Wilmott Dobbie, and Irvine Loudon estimate that maternal mortality rates between 1400 and 1800 were between 1 and 3 percent. Most often, women died in childbirth due to protracted labor caused by a narrow or deformed pelvis, fetal malpresentation, postpartum hemorrhage, or puerperal fevers. The health risk was renewed at each pregnancy. Since a woman averaged five pregnancies, 10 percent of these women died during or soon after childbirth."

Obstetrics and Midwifery - Antiquity and the Medieval and Early Modern Period The Modern Period Cesarean Section - Encyclopedia of Children and Childhood in History and Society

We can toss this in..

"...the idea that Jewish men in 1st century Palestine were required to be married is false....in the ancient world, except in times of constant war, men far outnumbered women in the general population. So many women died in childbirth that it would have been impossible for every man to be married." (Ehrman, Bart D, The Greatest Controversies of Early Christian History, pg. 44)

We can also toss in some Paul to assist. In 1st Corinthians 7 Paul writes, "8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Cor. 7:8-9, NIV) Paul is teaching that one should not get married unless they cannot control their lusts There is a reason for why he taught this. Paul was under the belief that everyone would be ascending to heaven soon so there was no point in changing your status. Paul writes:

"26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband." (1 Cor. 734, NIV)

It's reasonable to assume Jesus had a similar motivation for remaining single.

Furthermore the conjecture is that he was gay. Not that he wasn't. Since the rate of homosexuality in a given society is roughly 5% or so it is statistically far more likely that he was straight. Thus, the burden of proof lies upon you to show that Jesus was in the 5% or so and not the other way around. It is far more reasonable to state that Jesus was probably unmarried because He held a view similar to Paul's view and not that He fell within the 5% or so of the population that was probably homosexual.

 

[HaShev]

Amazing how Blue Phantom is not to lazy to come up with thorough research on something so insignificant but then is missing in action when it comes to research very significant info that would make using the name Jesus and Paul look foolish.
Who is this Jesus and who is this Paul, try researching that before you spew names of non historical figures like you are imagining them as real.

 

[hazlnut]

The Christian right doesn't have any opinion on this?

Do they concur?

 

[BluePhantom]

The Christian right doesn't have any opinion on this?

Do they concur?

Read the post right above yours

 

[MaryL]

Was Jesus Gay?


Interesting piece, interesting ideas.

As it turns out, this is not a unique theory. Dr. Reverend Bob Shore-Goss, an openly gay senior pastor, has written several books on the subject, including Queering Christ and Jesus ACTED UP: A Gay and Lesbian Manifesto. He holds a doctorate degree in Comparative Religion from Harvard, and he serves on the National Advisory Board of the Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies in Religion. Oh, and he believes that Jesus was gay. I got in touch with Reverend Goss, who laid out the Biblical evidence and explained how his theory plays out.

Some more facts from the article:

Does Jesus himself ever address that?
As a matter of fact, one of Jesus's miracles is the healing the Centurion's boy. It's in Matthew and Luke. Matthew uses the word "pais"—you get the word pederasty from it, it means youth—to describe this boy, who is essentially a concubine to the Centurian. It's an erotic relationship. He comes to Jesus and asks for his boy to be healed. And Jesus asks if he should heal him, and he says, "I'm not worthy that you should come under my roof, but say the word and my boy will be healed." Jesus says about the faith of the Centurion, who is in a homoerotic relationship, that "there is no greater faith than I've encountered in Israel."

What's great about that is that every time you go to communion on Sunday, millions of Catholics say, "Lord, I'm not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." They're uttering this homoerotic phrase that was uttered by a Centurion in an actual homosexual relationship with a youth. We've just sanitized that and forgotten those sort of things in the meantime. But a church of the second century would understand that this is a homosexual relationship and it wasn't a big deal.

Wow, But nobody can draw an erotic gay picture of Allah as gay, straight or squillily line without a death sentence. Let's MOCK Allah! Allah is gay, what pictures do you have? Please.