Was obama The Reason The LEFT Turned Into Full Blown Socialists?

[CrusaderFrank]

Sadly it's how Hitler got started.

Hitler studied to be a christian priest, joined the military and fought valiantly in WWI.

That's nothing like Obama.

Obama fought bravely in the First Macaca Islamic Brigade

 

[auditor0007]

Nutters....

You clowns are why the GOP is drowning.

I laugh my ass off every time I read a post from one of these crackpots. Everyone is a socialist, marxist, or communist, if they aren't far right wing nutjobs. Fucking hilarious.

 

[regent]

Nutters....

You clowns are why the GOP is drowning.

I laugh my ass off every time I read a post from one of these crackpots. Everyone is a socialist, marxist, or communist, if they aren't far right wing nutjobs. Fucking hilarious.

Don't laugh, this has been the most effective use of fear that a political party has ever used. The Republicans began this effort in the 1930's with the Great Depression, seems the Democrats were trying to give aid and comfort to the American people rather than business and corporations. But that was exactly what communists claimed they were doing, helping people. It was a natural for Republicans to put the two together, and then the New Deal with its PWA, the WPA the CCC, the TVA all designed to help people survive, the Republican party was on its way. The capper was Social Security. From that time on, Democrats and their helping Americans, not corporations, became communists. The Republicans had their battle cry for the century. Did it work, does it work, read these posts.

 

[peach174]

do you think annapolis and west point and colorado springs are "extremely liberal"? I sure don't.

so...talking to a handful of Cuban immigrants removes the requirement for you to know what words actually mean? If you knew the definition of words, as you say you do, then you would know that saying that the fact that the government took control of ONE industry was far beyond socialism and was, in fact, pure communism, as you asserted, was totally ridiculous. You are a moron. That's abundantly clear.

You need to re read what I said.
I never said that the government took control of one industry.
I said that they own stock in GM and that is partial ownership and that is socialism.
I said that 100% of owning stock by any government is Communism.

It wasn't me who said it. It was the Cubans who actually lived in Socialism.That is why they escaped.

again. I could give a rat's rectum what a handful of cigar rolling immigrants say about anything. If the government has 100% ownership in any one industry that is NOT communism. Learn from a book instead of a bunch of immigrants talking trash down at the barber shop.

edit: Cuba is not now, nor has it ever been "socialist". It was a colony and then it was run by a series of dictators who totally subjugated a largely illiterate agrarian population. Castro was just a different variety of the same thing. There was no governmental systems in place to prevent the abuses of power that Castro bestowed upon his people. Of course they ran away. Of course they came to Florida when they had the chance... but they weren't running away from "socialism", they were running away from a malevolent dictator. You want examples of countries that are attempting to run a socialist model? Try Sweden and Norway. Do you hear stories of boatloads of refugees coming to our shores to escape the scourge of Scandinavian socialism? Of course not. And how do you think that the US could EVER become an oppressive dictatorship like Cuba without a violent revolution. Do you honestly think that Congress would just roll over and let that crazy Marxist Kenyan rule by FIAT? Do you honestly think that the Supreme Court would just throw up their hands and say "fuck it", there's nothing we can do?

Really. I spent years reading "Das Kapital", "The Conditions of the Working Class in England", "The Communist Manifesto", "Critical Notes on Political Economy", "The Wretched of the Earth" to name just a handful of serious source matter on socialism and communism.... and you... you talked to some old Cuban guys who escaped a dictator. You don't know feces from fat meat. You make me laugh.

Well that is what they called themselves;
The Constitution of 1976, which defined Cuba as a socialist republic, was replaced by the Constitution of 1992, which is "guided by the ideas of José Martí and the political and social ideas of Marx, Engels and Lenin." Communism.
The Cuban state adheres to socialist principles in organizing its largely state-controlled planned economy.

They lived under socialism and communism and they fled to America. They recognize that America has slowly been heading toward socialism.
It is not just Cubans it is many immigrants that fled from Communism and Socialism. They recognize it and many of them speak out about it.

 

[expatriate]

You need to re read what I said.
I never said that the government took control of one industry.
I said that they own stock in GM and that is partial ownership and that is socialism.
I said that 100% of owning stock by any government is Communism.

It wasn't me who said it. It was the Cubans who actually lived in Socialism.That is why they escaped.

again. I could give a rat's rectum what a handful of cigar rolling immigrants say about anything. If the government has 100% ownership in any one industry that is NOT communism. Learn from a book instead of a bunch of immigrants talking trash down at the barber shop.

edit: Cuba is not now, nor has it ever been "socialist". It was a colony and then it was run by a series of dictators who totally subjugated a largely illiterate agrarian population. Castro was just a different variety of the same thing. There was no governmental systems in place to prevent the abuses of power that Castro bestowed upon his people. Of course they ran away. Of course they came to Florida when they had the chance... but they weren't running away from "socialism", they were running away from a malevolent dictator. You want examples of countries that are attempting to run a socialist model? Try Sweden and Norway. Do you hear stories of boatloads of refugees coming to our shores to escape the scourge of Scandinavian socialism? Of course not. And how do you think that the US could EVER become an oppressive dictatorship like Cuba without a violent revolution. Do you honestly think that Congress would just roll over and let that crazy Marxist Kenyan rule by FIAT? Do you honestly think that the Supreme Court would just throw up their hands and say "fuck it", there's nothing we can do?

Really. I spent years reading "Das Kapital", "The Conditions of the Working Class in England", "The Communist Manifesto", "Critical Notes on Political Economy", "The Wretched of the Earth" to name just a handful of serious source matter on socialism and communism.... and you... you talked to some old Cuban guys who escaped a dictator. You don't know feces from fat meat. You make me laugh.

Well that is what they called themselves;
The Constitution of 1976, which defined Cuba as a socialist republic, was replaced by the Constitution of 1992, which is "guided by the ideas of José Martí and the political and social ideas of Marx, Engels and Lenin." Communism.
The Cuban state adheres to socialist principles in organizing its largely state-controlled planned economy.

They lived under socialism and communism and they fled to America. They recognize that America has slowly been heading toward socialism.
It is not just Cubans it is many immigrants that fled from Communism and Socialism. They recognize it and many of them speak out about it.

I ask again... where are the boatloads of Swedes and Norwegians fleeing the oppression of Scandinavian socialism?

You don't know what you're talking about and rely on the grumblings of a handful of CUban exiles to give you all the academic and theoretical background you need to try and talk like you have a clue about what socialism or communism really is. When you said that government ownership of one industry was beyond socialism and was "pure communism", I should have just responded with a ROFLMFAO and left you at that. Silly me... a retiree with too much time on my hands.

 

[peach174]

Nutters....

You clowns are why the GOP is drowning.

I laugh my ass off every time I read a post from one of these crackpots. Everyone is a socialist, marxist, or communist, if they aren't far right wing nutjobs. Fucking hilarious.

Don't laugh, this has been the most effective use of fear that a political party has ever used. The Republicans began this effort in the 1930's with the Great Depression, seems the Democrats were trying to give aid and comfort to the American people rather than business and corporations. But that was exactly what communists claimed they were doing, helping people. It was a natural for Republicans to put the two together, and then the New Deal with its PWA, the WPA the CCC, the TVA all designed to help people survive, the Republican party was on its way. The capper was Social Security. From that time on, Democrats and their helping Americans, not corporations, became communists. The Republicans had their battle cry for the century. Did it work, does it work, read these posts.

It is the Dem's who named themselves;
In 1972, the Socialist Party voted to rename itself as Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA) by a vote of 73 to 34 at its December Convention

 

[regent]

I laugh my ass off every time I read a post from one of these crackpots. Everyone is a socialist, marxist, or communist, if they aren't far right wing nutjobs. Fucking hilarious.

Don't laugh, this has been the most effective use of fear that a political party has ever used. The Republicans began this effort in the 1930's with the Great Depression, seems the Democrats were trying to give aid and comfort to the American people rather than business and corporations. But that was exactly what communists claimed they were doing, helping people. It was a natural for Republicans to put the two together, and then the New Deal with its PWA, the WPA the CCC, the TVA all designed to help people survive, the Republican party was on its way. The capper was Social Security. From that time on, Democrats and their helping Americans, not corporations, became communists. The Republicans had their battle cry for the century. Did it work, does it work, read these posts.

It is the Dem's who named themselves;
In 1972, the Socialist Party voted to rename itself as Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA) by a vote of 73 to 34 at its December Convention

So if a group named themselves the Social Republicans, the Republican party would be communists?

 

[peach174]

again. I could give a rat's rectum what a handful of cigar rolling immigrants say about anything. If the government has 100% ownership in any one industry that is NOT communism. Learn from a book instead of a bunch of immigrants talking trash down at the barber shop.

edit: Cuba is not now, nor has it ever been "socialist". It was a colony and then it was run by a series of dictators who totally subjugated a largely illiterate agrarian population. Castro was just a different variety of the same thing. There was no governmental systems in place to prevent the abuses of power that Castro bestowed upon his people. Of course they ran away. Of course they came to Florida when they had the chance... but they weren't running away from "socialism", they were running away from a malevolent dictator. You want examples of countries that are attempting to run a socialist model? Try Sweden and Norway. Do you hear stories of boatloads of refugees coming to our shores to escape the scourge of Scandinavian socialism? Of course not. And how do you think that the US could EVER become an oppressive dictatorship like Cuba without a violent revolution. Do you honestly think that Congress would just roll over and let that crazy Marxist Kenyan rule by FIAT? Do you honestly think that the Supreme Court would just throw up their hands and say "fuck it", there's nothing we can do?

Really. I spent years reading "Das Kapital", "The Conditions of the Working Class in England", "The Communist Manifesto", "Critical Notes on Political Economy", "The Wretched of the Earth" to name just a handful of serious source matter on socialism and communism.... and you... you talked to some old Cuban guys who escaped a dictator. You don't know feces from fat meat. You make me laugh.

Well that is what they called themselves;
The Constitution of 1976, which defined Cuba as a socialist republic, was replaced by the Constitution of 1992, which is "guided by the ideas of José Martí and the political and social ideas of Marx, Engels and Lenin." Communism.
The Cuban state adheres to socialist principles in organizing its largely state-controlled planned economy.

They lived under socialism and communism and they fled to America. They recognize that America has slowly been heading toward socialism.
It is not just Cubans it is many immigrants that fled from Communism and Socialism. They recognize it and many of them speak out about it.

I ask again... where are the boatloads of Swedes and Norwegians fleeing the oppression of Scandinavian socialism?

You don't know what you're talking about and rely on the grumblings of a handful of CUban exiles to give you all the academic and theoretical background you need to try and talk like you have a clue about what socialism or communism really is. When you said that government ownership of one industry was beyond socialism and was "pure communism", I should have just responded with a ROFLMFAO and left you at that. Silly me... a retiree with too much time on my hands.

We had a Swede(22 yrs old) on the board not to long ago who was asking how to move here. He said Sweden was boring.This is what happens when everything and everyone is the same.Collectivism.
I have a Norwegian girlfriend who moved here. She also recognizes that America is moving toward Socialism.

Communism-
Communism is a system of government and ideals where all people are considered equal in an attempt to create a fairer society.
In a communist country, all property – land, businesses and resources – is owned by the people through the government.

The income from that wealth is then distributed evenly to ensure everyone is healthy, educated and financially secure.

Dem's are calling for greater government involvement to make things more equal and ensure that everyone gets their “fair share.”

This gets both the problem and its solution all wrong. Free-market economics is not about dividing up a dwindling pie, but expanding the pie to serve everyone. Those who succeed do not do so at the expense of others.

 

[peach174]

Don't laugh, this has been the most effective use of fear that a political party has ever used. The Republicans began this effort in the 1930's with the Great Depression, seems the Democrats were trying to give aid and comfort to the American people rather than business and corporations. But that was exactly what communists claimed they were doing, helping people. It was a natural for Republicans to put the two together, and then the New Deal with its PWA, the WPA the CCC, the TVA all designed to help people survive, the Republican party was on its way. The capper was Social Security. From that time on, Democrats and their helping Americans, not corporations, became communists. The Republicans had their battle cry for the century. Did it work, does it work, read these posts.

It is the Dem's who named themselves;
In 1972, the Socialist Party voted to rename itself as Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA) by a vote of 73 to 34 at its December Convention

So if a group named themselves the Social Republicans, the Republican party would be communists?

Not Communists- Socialists
What do you think the Bull Moose party was? Socialists.
Socialist ideas started with the Republicans and Dem's took it over and ran with it. Both parties have embraced it.

 

[Toro]

We had a Swede(22 yrs old) on the board not to long ago who was asking how to move here. He said Sweden was boring.This is what happens when everything and everyone is the same.Collectivism.

Mississippi is boring.

 

[expatriate]

Well that is what they called themselves;
The Constitution of 1976, which defined Cuba as a socialist republic, was replaced by the Constitution of 1992, which is "guided by the ideas of José Martí and the political and social ideas of Marx, Engels and Lenin." Communism.
The Cuban state adheres to socialist principles in organizing its largely state-controlled planned economy.

They lived under socialism and communism and they fled to America. They recognize that America has slowly been heading toward socialism.
It is not just Cubans it is many immigrants that fled from Communism and Socialism. They recognize it and many of them speak out about it.

I ask again... where are the boatloads of Swedes and Norwegians fleeing the oppression of Scandinavian socialism?

You don't know what you're talking about and rely on the grumblings of a handful of CUban exiles to give you all the academic and theoretical background you need to try and talk like you have a clue about what socialism or communism really is. When you said that government ownership of one industry was beyond socialism and was "pure communism", I should have just responded with a ROFLMFAO and left you at that. Silly me... a retiree with too much time on my hands.

We had a Swede(22 yrs old) on the board not to long ago who was asking how to move here. He said Sweden was boring.This is what happens when everything and everyone is the same.Collectivism.
I have a Norwegian girlfriend who moved here. She also recognizes that America is moving toward Socialism.

Communism-
Communism is a system of government and ideals where all people are considered equal in an attempt to create a fairer society.
In a communist country, all property – land, businesses and resources – is owned by the people through the government.

The income from that wealth is then distributed evenly to ensure everyone is healthy, educated and financially secure.

Dem's are calling for greater government involvement to make things more equal and ensure that everyone gets their “fair share.”

This gets both the problem and its solution all wrong. Free-market economics is not about dividing up a dwindling pie, but expanding the pie to serve everyone. Those who succeed do not do so at the expense of others.

One bored and disenchanted 22 year old swede on a message board. Now that is what I call some conclusive evidence of the failure of the scandinavian socio-economic system! Wow!!!! WHo needs academic study and critical research when you've got blockbuster stuff like that???? Oh... and one quick point: "fair" share does NOT equate to "EQUAL" share. See the difference, or is it too subtle for you?

And look, you found a simple cut and paste definition of communism - from wikipedia, was it? Good for you. It's certainly a step better than relying on the word of a couple of cigar rolling cuban immigrants. Now... try to use a little critical thinking. First... do some studying about the way that Marx stated that communism needed to be implemented. Learn what the dialectic process means. Realize that communism is not a system that can be implemented in gradual incremental steps.... just like you cannot cross a large deep chasm in two medium sized steps, you need one giant leap. That is the way they system was designed - by its very inventor - to be implemented... and that is how it HAS been implemented (albeit imperfectly) every time it has happened around the world. No nation has slowly, incrementally, gradually slipped into a communist model. None. Your post #47 in which you claimed that government ownership of just one industry would not be socialism but would be, in your words, "full blown communism" is absolute proof positive that a tiny bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. You know precious little about political theory, socio-economic theory, and rely, instead on the summary lines from wikipedia pages and anecdotal "evidence" gleaned from cuban americans and young swedish boys on internet sites. Step back a moment and realize how out of your league you are in this discussion. Really. For me to get into a battle of wits with you on this topic is tantamount to me shooting an unarmed man. Give it up... or better yet... spend the next six months or so doing some serious reading outside your comfort zone and then come back and try again.

 

[expatriate]

some interesting reading:

The World's Happiest (And Saddest) Countries - Christopher Helman Southwest Bureau - Forbes

 

[tyroneweaver]

​

You far-righties are evidence of wide spread inbreeding in deep red states.

You are so fucking dense.

ya, we all know how out of control the states of Idaho and Utah are. LOL

Nice try with the reversal.

 

[HUGGY]

Sadly it's how Hitler got started.

Hitler studied to be a christian priest, joined the military and fought valiantly in WWI.

That's nothing like Obama.

Obama fought bravely in the First Macaca Islamic Brigade

NewGOPers lie at every opportunity. They lie when they are serious..they lie when they joke and everything in between.

Frankie? Didn't your mommy tell you not to lie?

 

[Doc91678]

Sadly it's how Hitler got started.

Hitler studied to be a christian priest, joined the military and fought valiantly in WWI.

That's nothing like Obama.

Obama fought bravely in the First Macaca Islamic Brigade

Joseph Stalin's Early Years and Family​

Joseph Stalin was born Josef Vissarionovich Djugashvili on December 18, 1878, or December 6, 1878, according to the Old Style Julian calendar (although he later invented a new birth date for himself: December 21, 1879), in the small town of Gori, Georgia, then part of the Russian empire. When he was in his 30s, he took the name Stalin, from the Russian for "man of steel."

Stalin grew up poor and an only child. His father was a shoemaker and alcoholic who beat his son, and his mother was a laundress. As a boy, Stalin contracted smallpox, which left him with lifelong facial scars. As a teen, he earned a scholarship to attend a seminary in the nearby city of Tblisi and study for the priesthood in the Georgian Orthodox Church. While there he began secretly reading the work of German social philosopher and "Communist Manifesto" author Karl Marx, becoming interested in the revolutionary movement against the Russian monarchy. In 1899, Stalin was expelled from the seminary for missing exams, although he claimed it was for Marxist propaganda.

Read more:
Joseph Stalin — History.com Articles, Video, Pictures and Facts

 

[peach174]

I ask again... where are the boatloads of Swedes and Norwegians fleeing the oppression of Scandinavian socialism?

You don't know what you're talking about and rely on the grumblings of a handful of CUban exiles to give you all the academic and theoretical background you need to try and talk like you have a clue about what socialism or communism really is. When you said that government ownership of one industry was beyond socialism and was "pure communism", I should have just responded with a ROFLMFAO and left you at that. Silly me... a retiree with too much time on my hands.

We had a Swede(22 yrs old) on the board not to long ago who was asking how to move here. He said Sweden was boring.This is what happens when everything and everyone is the same.Collectivism.
I have a Norwegian girlfriend who moved here. She also recognizes that America is moving toward Socialism.

Communism-
Communism is a system of government and ideals where all people are considered equal in an attempt to create a fairer society.
In a communist country, all property – land, businesses and resources – is owned by the people through the government.

The income from that wealth is then distributed evenly to ensure everyone is healthy, educated and financially secure.

Dem's are calling for greater government involvement to make things more equal and ensure that everyone gets their “fair share.”

This gets both the problem and its solution all wrong. Free-market economics is not about dividing up a dwindling pie, but expanding the pie to serve everyone. Those who succeed do not do so at the expense of others.

One bored and disenchanted 22 year old swede on a message board. Now that is what I call some conclusive evidence of the failure of the scandinavian socio-economic system! Wow!!!! WHo needs academic study and critical research when you've got blockbuster stuff like that???? Oh... and one quick point: "fair" share does NOT equate to "EQUAL" share. See the difference, or is it too subtle for you?

And look, you found a simple cut and paste definition of communism - from wikipedia, was it? Good for you. It's certainly a step better than relying on the word of a couple of cigar rolling cuban immigrants. Now... try to use a little critical thinking. First... do some studying about the way that Marx stated that communism needed to be implemented. Learn what the dialectic process means. Realize that communism is not a system that can be implemented in gradual incremental steps.... just like you cannot cross a large deep chasm in two medium sized steps, you need one giant leap. That is the way they system was designed - by its very inventor - to be implemented... and that is how it HAS been implemented (albeit imperfectly) every time it has happened around the world. No nation has slowly, incrementally, gradually slipped into a communist model. None. Your post #47 in which you claimed that government ownership of just one industry would not be socialism but would be, in your words, "full blown communism" is absolute proof positive that a tiny bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. You know precious little about political theory, socio-economic theory, and rely, instead on the summary lines from wikipedia pages and anecdotal "evidence" gleaned from cuban americans and young swedish boys on internet sites. Step back a moment and realize how out of your league you are in this discussion. Really. For me to get into a battle of wits with you on this topic is tantamount to me shooting an unarmed man. Give it up... or better yet... spend the next six months or so doing some serious reading outside your comfort zone and then come back and try again.

How old are you?
I would guess 30 something.
This is not about wits or a game, we are over16 trillion in the hole because of social entitlement programs (mostly implemented by Dem's). Gov. spends way to much money and the Dem's refuse to get serious about cut backs.
We have a congress that is playing blame games, just so one or the other can remain in power.
Life experience is just as much as an education as book learning. You refuse to see the truth. These people lived in Socialism and you refuse to see it for what is really is.
You keep using Communism when I and many others are saying we moving more and more toward socialism.
We have moved toward Socialism not communism for the last 100 yrs.

 

[expatriate]

We had a Swede(22 yrs old) on the board not to long ago who was asking how to move here. He said Sweden was boring.This is what happens when everything and everyone is the same.Collectivism.
I have a Norwegian girlfriend who moved here. She also recognizes that America is moving toward Socialism.

Communism-
Communism is a system of government and ideals where all people are considered equal in an attempt to create a fairer society.
In a communist country, all property – land, businesses and resources – is owned by the people through the government.

The income from that wealth is then distributed evenly to ensure everyone is healthy, educated and financially secure.

Dem's are calling for greater government involvement to make things more equal and ensure that everyone gets their “fair share.”

This gets both the problem and its solution all wrong. Free-market economics is not about dividing up a dwindling pie, but expanding the pie to serve everyone. Those who succeed do not do so at the expense of others.

One bored and disenchanted 22 year old swede on a message board. Now that is what I call some conclusive evidence of the failure of the scandinavian socio-economic system! Wow!!!! WHo needs academic study and critical research when you've got blockbuster stuff like that???? Oh... and one quick point: "fair" share does NOT equate to "EQUAL" share. See the difference, or is it too subtle for you?

And look, you found a simple cut and paste definition of communism - from wikipedia, was it? Good for you. It's certainly a step better than relying on the word of a couple of cigar rolling cuban immigrants. Now... try to use a little critical thinking. First... do some studying about the way that Marx stated that communism needed to be implemented. Learn what the dialectic process means. Realize that communism is not a system that can be implemented in gradual incremental steps.... just like you cannot cross a large deep chasm in two medium sized steps, you need one giant leap. That is the way they system was designed - by its very inventor - to be implemented... and that is how it HAS been implemented (albeit imperfectly) every time it has happened around the world. No nation has slowly, incrementally, gradually slipped into a communist model. None. Your post #47 in which you claimed that government ownership of just one industry would not be socialism but would be, in your words, "full blown communism" is absolute proof positive that a tiny bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. You know precious little about political theory, socio-economic theory, and rely, instead on the summary lines from wikipedia pages and anecdotal "evidence" gleaned from cuban americans and young swedish boys on internet sites. Step back a moment and realize how out of your league you are in this discussion. Really. For me to get into a battle of wits with you on this topic is tantamount to me shooting an unarmed man. Give it up... or better yet... spend the next six months or so doing some serious reading outside your comfort zone and then come back and try again.

How old are you?
I would guess 30 something.
This is not about wits or a game, we are over16 trillion in the hole because of social entitlement programs (mostly implemented by Dem's). Gov. spends way to much money and the Dem's refuse to get serious about cut backs.
We have a congress that is playing blame games, just so one or the other can remain in power.
Life experience is just as much as an education as book learning. You refuse to see the truth. These people lived in Socialism and you refuse to see it for what is really is.
You keep using Communism when I and many others are saying we moving more and more toward socialism.
We have moved toward Socialism not communism for the last 100 yrs.

your guess about my age is as uninformed as everything else you write. My age is more than double your guess. I am a retired military officer with tons of post graduate education and a great deal of academic concentration on the very topic we are discussing. You are in over your head, trust me. The discussion about entitlements and taxes is a political discussion that has been happening and evolving for as long as we have been a nation. You can claim that your "life experience" in talking with Cuban immigrants somehow is equivalent to my years of education and study and experience on the topic of socialism and communism, but your claims are ridiculous. YOU are the one who claimed that government ownership of one single industry or aspect of society was beyond socialism and was, again in your words, "pure communism". If you'd like to retract that absurd statement, that would be great, but until you do, it remains as proof positive that you don't have a fucking clue about the words you toss around. People from the right said that social security was " socialism". People on the right said that medicare was "socialism". People on the right said that AFDC and WIC and MEDICAID and all the other social safety net programs that have been instituted over the past century were "socialism". But yet, you really don't understand what the terms "socialism" OR "communism" mean. "Socialism", by definition, is government control and ownership of EVERYTHING.... not parts of things. We have been moving toward a more caring and inclusive society where those who have been lucky enough to be blessed with intelligence and wealth - myself included - help pay for the lesser folks in our society who may not have the intelligence to achieve wealth and security but are perfectly capable of sending their sons off to die in Korea or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan, or who work long hard hours washing the dishes that you eat off of an restaurants or picking up your trash that you leave at your curb, or making the beds and cleaning the rooms of the hotels you stay in or mowing your lawns or replacing your roofs or washing your cars... I know that people like that are necessary to make this society run... and I am perfectly willing to pay a bit more in taxes to ensure that they aren't destitute or financially ruined if their spouse gets cancer or their child has some illness. You... you talk to your cuban immigrants, think you know all sorts of stuff about things that you clearly know little to nothing about.... and you make me ill. I wonder how this great country of ours has devolved into a place where morons like you think they have all the answers and those answers do not contain ANY compassion for their fellow citizens. You make me sick. I need a drink.

 

[RosieS]

One bored and disenchanted 22 year old swede on a message board. Now that is what I call some conclusive evidence of the failure of the scandinavian socio-economic system! Wow!!!! WHo needs academic study and critical research when you've got blockbuster stuff like that???? Oh... and one quick point: "fair" share does NOT equate to "EQUAL" share. See the difference, or is it too subtle for you?

And look, you found a simple cut and paste definition of communism - from wikipedia, was it? Good for you. It's certainly a step better than relying on the word of a couple of cigar rolling cuban immigrants. Now... try to use a little critical thinking. First... do some studying about the way that Marx stated that communism needed to be implemented. Learn what the dialectic process means. Realize that communism is not a system that can be implemented in gradual incremental steps.... just like you cannot cross a large deep chasm in two medium sized steps, you need one giant leap. That is the way they system was designed - by its very inventor - to be implemented... and that is how it HAS been implemented (albeit imperfectly) every time it has happened around the world. No nation has slowly, incrementally, gradually slipped into a communist model. None. Your post #47 in which you claimed that government ownership of just one industry would not be socialism but would be, in your words, "full blown communism" is absolute proof positive that a tiny bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. You know precious little about political theory, socio-economic theory, and rely, instead on the summary lines from wikipedia pages and anecdotal "evidence" gleaned from cuban americans and young swedish boys on internet sites. Step back a moment and realize how out of your league you are in this discussion. Really. For me to get into a battle of wits with you on this topic is tantamount to me shooting an unarmed man. Give it up... or better yet... spend the next six months or so doing some serious reading outside your comfort zone and then come back and try again.

How old are you?
I would guess 30 something.
This is not about wits or a game, we are over16 trillion in the hole because of social entitlement programs (mostly implemented by Dem's). Gov. spends way to much money and the Dem's refuse to get serious about cut backs.
We have a congress that is playing blame games, just so one or the other can remain in power.
Life experience is just as much as an education as book learning. You refuse to see the truth. These people lived in Socialism and you refuse to see it for what is really is.
You keep using Communism when I and many others are saying we moving more and more toward socialism.
We have moved toward Socialism not communism for the last 100 yrs.

your guess about my age is as uninformed as everything else you write. My age is more than double your guess. I am a retired military officer with tons of post graduate education and a great deal of academic concentration on the very topic we are discussing. You are in over your head, trust me. The discussion about entitlements and taxes is a political discussion that has been happening and evolving for as long as we have been a nation. You can claim that your "life experience" in talking with Cuban immigrants somehow is equivalent to my years of education and study and experience on the topic of socialism and communism, but your claims are ridiculous. YOU are the one who claimed that government ownership of one single industry or aspect of society was beyond socialism and was, again in your words, "pure communism". If you'd like to retract that absurd statement, that would be great, but until you do, it remains as proof positive that you don't have a fucking clue about the words you toss around. People from the right said that social security was " socialism". People on the right said that medicare was "socialism". People on the right said that AFDC and WIC and MEDICAID and all the other social safety net programs that have been instituted over the past century were "socialism". But yet, you really don't understand what the terms "socialism" OR "communism" mean. "Socialism", by definition, is government control and ownership of EVERYTHING.... not parts of things. We have been moving toward a more caring and inclusive society where those who have been lucky enough to be blessed with intelligence and wealth - myself included - help pay for the lesser folks in our society who may not have the intelligence to achieve wealth and security but are perfectly capable of sending their sons off to die in Korea or Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan, or who work long hard hours washing the dishes that you eat off of an restaurants or picking up your trash that you leave at your curb, or making the beds and cleaning the rooms of the hotels you stay in or mowing your lawns or replacing your roofs or washing your cars... I know that people like that are necessary to make this society run... and I am perfectly willing to pay a bit more in taxes to ensure that they aren't destitute or financially ruined if their spouse gets cancer or their child has some illness. You... you talk to your cuban immigrants, think you know all sorts of stuff about things that you clearly know little to nothing about.... and you make me ill. I wonder how this great country of ours has devolved into a place
where morons like you think they have all the answers and those answers do not contain
ANY compassion for their fellow citizens. You make me sick. I need a drink.

Thank you for your service. Thank you for showing that our nation's military forces serve ALL citizens, not just rightists.

Thank you for saying what needed to be said and saying it eloquently. Please know that many of today's youth have the compassion and idealism that you find lacking in our
fellow posters.

You also restore my faith. I was beginning to think that all former military here were obscenity and filth spewing pieces of garbage. I am *so* glad I am wrong!

Regards from Rosie

 

[tooAlive]

I'm sorry expatriate, but some of your statements are a little unfounded.

There's nothing "compassionate" about socialism or communism. The poor need to be fed, people need a roof over their heads, the sick need medical treatment, and our youth need an affordable education.

But having the government take from some to give to others is far from compassionate. It's theft and downright immoral.

Compassion is going out and helping the poor yourself. Not forcing everyone's hand to do as you see fit. So you're very wrong when you say we aren't compassionate. Because many of us are; we just don't like a wasteful government taking from what we have earned and doing with it what they please. There's no compassion or satisfaction in that.

Although there is profound satisfaction is seeing with your very own eyes what you can do for someone else. How you can change someones life by providing for them even just a few of the things I mentioned before. That is the definition of caring. And that's what we should be advocating. Not flawed Marxist ideals based on envy and jealousy.

And you mentioned communism has never been implemented correctly. That's because it can't be. As long as you have human beings in the equation with their natural tendencies, communism will always be a complete failure.

There is no correct way of implementing communism. Because communism itself is not correct.

 

[expatriate]

I'm sorry expatriate, but some of your statements are a little unfounded.

There's nothing "compassionate" about socialism or communism. The poor need to be fed, people need a roof over their heads, the sick need medical treatment, and our youth need an affordable education.

But having the government take from some to give to others is far from compassionate. It's theft and downright immoral.

Compassion is going out and helping the poor yourself. Not forcing everyone's hand to do as you see fit. So you're very wrong when you say we aren't compassionate. Because many of us are; we just don't like a wasteful government taking from what we have earned and doing with it what they please. There's no compassion or satisfaction in that.

Although there is profound satisfaction is seeing with your very own eyes what you can do for someone else. How you can change someones life by providing for them even just a few of the things I mentioned before. That is the definition of caring. And that's what we should be advocating. Not flawed Marxist ideals based on envy and jealousy.

And you mentioned communism has never been implemented correctly. That's because it can't be. As long as you have human beings in the equation with their natural tendencies, communism will always be a complete failure.

There is no correct way of implementing communism. Because communism itself is not correct.

now... if you could find one single solitary WORD from me that ever stated that I advocated or even admired socialism OR communism, that would be real nice. But you can't so stfu and don't even THINK about trying to hang advocacy of either of those systems on ME.

And our government has had a progressive income tax structure for well over a century because president after president, congress after congress, and supreme court after supreme court has not only agreed that such a progressive tax structure WAS compassionate and WAS in the best interests of ALL our citizens but ALSO was constitutional. Got a bitch with the compassionate nature of our taxation and our social safety net? Take it our with every president and congress and supreme court since Woodrow Wilson.

And I merely point out that NEVER has communism been implemented in graduated increments, and never has it been implemented without violent revolutionary upheaval. To say that America, somehow, could or would SLIDE or DRIFT into such a state of governance is fucking ridiculous.