We all know you hate labor unions but do you hate collective bargaining itself?

[Avorysuds]

I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.

I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.

Management always goes for the throat when they decide to squeeze some more productivity out of the same workers who have been squeezed for more productivity every quarter or so, It's the most callous, lazy and unimaginative way possible to get profits up, when does it end? Do they ever have the justification to fight back?

Who's management?

Evil Republicans that like to see others children starve.

 

[Si modo]

That would kind of negate the sole leverage workers have in a strike would it not? So the your answer is no?

now now... don't put words in my mouth. My answer is YES... they have a right to strike.

however...

actions have consequences..... if you want to walk off the job.... don't expect your job back.

As just firing strikers without due process or an honest attempt to negotiate is illegal I must still assume your answer is that workers do not have this right in the sense that they should be protected by law.

With the idiotic unions, only certain workers get the "right" not to work and still keep their jobs.

That's not equal protection under the law.

But, if we give all workers such a right...I just LMAO at that idea.




No one is more equal than another under the law. It's great to be an American. You should try being Chinese for a few decades so that you can have some real perspective. You'd fit right in, I am sure, though.

 

[Avorysuds]

It has been made very very very clear for years that Public sector Unions are the problem. Very few have ever attacked Privet sector Unions. Sure some privet sector Unions have caused companies to go under, they failed to best represent their members or maybe the company failed to make a healthy work place. But giving a employee's in a Union the ability to go on strike and not be replaced or fired is about the most retarded idea ever, who wouldn't strike, seriously...

Anyways, to stay on point. How is it possible that this many years later you’re JUST now understanding that the attack was never on if people should have a collection bargaining rights, but that Unions shouldn’t have the power to force everyone to join that Union…… It’s been said possible tens of millions of times, yelled at “you people” because it’s like you idiots try to not hear the debate.

 

[occupied]

they have very right to get together and try and bargain all they want. The also have every right to strike and walk off the job to try an force their employer to meet their terms and do as they want...


however.... the employer should ALSO have the right to fire anyone who walks off the job, obstructs others from doing their jobs or preventing anyone from patronizing the employer....and replacing them.

That would kind of negate the sole leverage workers have in a strike would it not? So the your answer is no?

I’m sure many will and have pointed out but the answer is no, it does not negate the leverage the workers have. All you’re doing by saying a employer can’t fire people that don’t show up for work is give the workers a freakishly overpowered monopoly.

I can't understand why so many liberals hate evolution. A business MUST follow the same rules or you get cows walking in their own shit spreading disease.

I have to take a moment and point out just how stunningly little you understand about business. You truly seem to hate success, you value employees as if they created the business, as if they took the risks, that if the business fails they will enjoy bankruptcy and liquidation of assets.

It’s awkward seeing people “debate” these issues when it seems like Disney raised them on what a business owner is, an evil fat dog person in a pin stripe suit that smokes cigars and fires people by the masses and laughs when confronted with how children will be starving.

Some employees steal, are horrible at their job and make the work place a nightmare for others, just like some business owners can have much the same effect.

Another one who thinks people today can just quit a sucky job that demands wage and benefit concessions from workers and go right out and get a better one. Jobs are scarce and no one knows this better than the dickhead looking for a way to squeeze some more production or profit out of a workforce. Half of America would kick their boss in the 'nads and walk out tomorrow morning if they didn't have loss of health insurance hanging over their heads.

 

[Si modo]

That would kind of negate the sole leverage workers have in a strike would it not? So the your answer is no?

I’m sure many will and have pointed out but the answer is no, it does not negate the leverage the workers have. All you’re doing by saying a employer can’t fire people that don’t show up for work is give the workers a freakishly overpowered monopoly.

I can't understand why so many liberals hate evolution. A business MUST follow the same rules or you get cows walking in their own shit spreading disease.

I have to take a moment and point out just how stunningly little you understand about business. You truly seem to hate success, you value employees as if they created the business, as if they took the risks, that if the business fails they will enjoy bankruptcy and liquidation of assets.

It’s awkward seeing people “debate” these issues when it seems like Disney raised them on what a business owner is, an evil fat dog person in a pin stripe suit that smokes cigars and fires people by the masses and laughs when confronted with how children will be starving.

Some employees steal, are horrible at their job and make the work place a nightmare for others, just like some business owners can have much the same effect.

Another one who thinks people today can just quit a sucky job that demands wage and benefit concessions from workers and go right out and get a better one. Jobs are scarce and no one knows this better than the dickhead looking for a way to squeeze some more production or profit out of a workforce. Half of America would kick their boss in the 'nads and walk out tomorrow morning if they didn't have loss of health insurance hanging over their heads.

What a crock of shit.

 

[Darkwind]

That would kind of negate the sole leverage workers have in a strike would it not? So the your answer is no?

I’m sure many will and have pointed out but the answer is no, it does not negate the leverage the workers have. All you’re doing by saying a employer can’t fire people that don’t show up for work is give the workers a freakishly overpowered monopoly.

I can't understand why so many liberals hate evolution. A business MUST follow the same rules or you get cows walking in their own shit spreading disease.

I have to take a moment and point out just how stunningly little you understand about business. You truly seem to hate success, you value employees as if they created the business, as if they took the risks, that if the business fails they will enjoy bankruptcy and liquidation of assets.

It’s awkward seeing people “debate” these issues when it seems like Disney raised them on what a business owner is, an evil fat dog person in a pin stripe suit that smokes cigars and fires people by the masses and laughs when confronted with how children will be starving.

Some employees steal, are horrible at their job and make the work place a nightmare for others, just like some business owners can have much the same effect.

Another one who thinks people today can just quit a sucky job that demands wage and benefit concessions from workers and go right out and get a better one. Jobs are scarce and no one knows this better than the dickhead looking for a way to squeeze some more production or profit out of a workforce. Half of America would kick their boss in the 'nads and walk out tomorrow morning if they didn't have loss of health insurance hanging over their heads.

This has been debunked already.

No one believes that a person can just up and quit and find a better job.
What they ARE saying is that if your job sucks that bad, then take the time to find a better job, and when you do, just walk out and don't look back......and while you are looking for that better job, how about taking a college course or 10 and make yourself more valuable so that your resume looks better to people who ARE looking for quality employees.

It isn't rocket surgery, but it is called, "Acting like a man."

 

[zakdavis]

Another one who thinks people today can just quit a sucky job that demands wage and benefit concessions from workers and go right out and get a better one. Jobs are scarce and no one knows this better than the dickhead looking for a way to squeeze some more production or profit out of a workforce. Half of America would kick their boss in the 'nads and walk out tomorrow morning if they didn't have loss of health insurance hanging over their heads.

Wtf, when was the last time you had a real job?

 

[Avorysuds]

That would kind of negate the sole leverage workers have in a strike would it not? So the your answer is no?

I’m sure many will and have pointed out but the answer is no, it does not negate the leverage the workers have. All you’re doing by saying a employer can’t fire people that don’t show up for work is give the workers a freakishly overpowered monopoly.

I can't understand why so many liberals hate evolution. A business MUST follow the same rules or you get cows walking in their own shit spreading disease.

I have to take a moment and point out just how stunningly little you understand about business. You truly seem to hate success, you value employees as if they created the business, as if they took the risks, that if the business fails they will enjoy bankruptcy and liquidation of assets.

It’s awkward seeing people “debate” these issues when it seems like Disney raised them on what a business owner is, an evil fat dog person in a pin stripe suit that smokes cigars and fires people by the masses and laughs when confronted with how children will be starving.

Some employees steal, are horrible at their job and make the work place a nightmare for others, just like some business owners can have much the same effect.

Another one who thinks people today can just quit a sucky job that demands wage and benefit concessions from workers and go right out and get a better one. Jobs are scarce and no one knows this better than the dickhead looking for a way to squeeze some more production or profit out of a workforce. Half of America would kick their boss in the 'nads and walk out tomorrow morning if they didn't have loss of health insurance hanging over their heads.

You're a fucking moron. There really is no point. I honestly can't believe you have the nut sack to talk to people like you do on these boards. I'd bet money if you sat in a room full of business owners they would just stare right into your face then start laughing.

What you want is 100% job security, do you hear me? 100% job security. You want an employee to not ever in their life be allowed to be fired, how the fuck can they be? You also don't understand that life is hard on the bottom, that's why you try so hard to move up, if you have HC, education, housing, food paid for by the Government and any job you have you have absolute security in, ask yourself, why would you EVER need to try and move up? Why would you EVER work hard? I mean really, you just took the entire book on evolution and tossed it out the window. You have nothing to fear for doing as little as possible, you literally penalize success. Where do you think the majority of people will find themselves on that scale?

This is of course the problem with welfare, it makes people dependent and poor. Not everyone, just most people. Don't believe me? Tell me again how hard it is to get a job, tell me again how shitty America is doing... Then try and tell me we have less welfare than we did 2 years ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20, 30, 50, 100 years ago... Notice a trend much? More welfare, more poor people. 100% job security is welfare.

It is scary people like you talk out loud because you have no interst in learning, juat repeating yourself and making noise.

 

[Darkwind]

I have to wonder at the entire conversation here.

My father was a welder. He was union his whole life and managed to get an Associates degree in programing in the early 80's while working 60+ hours a week welding the Bradley tank. He worked on Apollo's 11 and 15, and built a number of construction cranes when he was younger.

He worked fucking hard at becoming the very best welder in any shop he worked in. My father could walk out of any job and find another employer within a week. His resume and skills were that good.

Now, we hear about the mighty union worker who can't go out and find a job to save his life?

Maybe we are talking about two different animals.....The unions My father worked in had skilled labor....not pussies.

 

[occupied]

Looks like everyone had a problem with that remark but it's the truth, the leverage that employers have with health insurance is enormous, enough to go years without meaningful pay raises or to even force cuts or any number of other coercive practices. All of you ignoring this fact at once is pretty funny.

 

[Si modo]

Looks like everyone had a problem with that remark but it's the truth, the leverage that employers have with health insurance is enormous, enough to go years without meaningful pay raises or to even force cuts or any number of other coercive practices. All of you ignoring this fact at once is pretty funny.

Then the worker is a moron for not leaving that job. I would bet most of us thought that was damn obvious.

 

[Darkwind]

Looks like everyone had a problem with that remark but it's the truth, the leverage that employers have with health insurance is enormous, enough to go years without meaningful pay raises or to even force cuts or any number of other coercive practices. All of you ignoring this fact at once is pretty funny.

I've rarely gone years without a pay raise. I'm not sure what kind of cuts you can force from an employer....

 

[occupied]

I have to wonder at the entire conversation here.

My father was a welder. He was union his whole life and managed to get an Associates degree in programing in the early 80's while working 60+ hours a week welding the Bradley tank. He worked on Apollo's 11 and 15, and built a number of construction cranes when he was younger.

He worked fucking hard at becoming the very best welder in any shop he worked in. My father could walk out of any job and find another employer within a week. His resume and skills were that good.

Now, we hear about the mighty union worker who can't go out and find a job to save his life?

Maybe we are talking about two different animals.....The unions My father worked in had skilled labor....not pussies.

I had to change professions a number of years ago because I became much too qualified and experienced and frankly too old (in their opinions) when they could get a few underpaid kids to replace me, I'm doing OK now but what I went through in those years when corporate America ditched the deep well of experience represented by middle aged workers for a bunch of debt laden kids who would literally work for chicken feed has soured my faith that any empty management suit knows a damned thing about what is best for their companies.

 

[Plasmaball]

sure it is....

Cant they bargain with the employer and STILL work? Sure they can.

walking off the job... is quitting.

that would defeat the point.

actions have consequences.....

while true, said boss most likely signed a prior agreement saying he/she wouldnt fire people if they striked.

so you have to factor that in

 

[jhc1983]

I have to wonder at the entire conversation here.

My father was a welder. He was union his whole life and managed to get an Associates degree in programing in the early 80's while working 60+ hours a week welding the Bradley tank. He worked on Apollo's 11 and 15, and built a number of construction cranes when he was younger.

He worked fucking hard at becoming the very best welder in any shop he worked in. My father could walk out of any job and find another employer within a week. His resume and skills were that good.

Now, we hear about the mighty union worker who can't go out and find a job to save his life?

Maybe we are talking about two different animals.....The unions My father worked in had skilled labor....not pussies.

It is the anti union bullshit that is being spread.
What is worse is that the people that believe the anti union bullshit are the ones who C.B. would help the most

 

[zakdavis]

I have to wonder at the entire conversation here.

My father was a welder. He was union his whole life and managed to get an Associates degree in programing in the early 80's while working 60+ hours a week welding the Bradley tank. He worked on Apollo's 11 and 15, and built a number of construction cranes when he was younger.

He worked fucking hard at becoming the very best welder in any shop he worked in. My father could walk out of any job and find another employer within a week. His resume and skills were that good.

Now, we hear about the mighty union worker who can't go out and find a job to save his life?

Maybe we are talking about two different animals.....The unions My father worked in had skilled labor....not pussies.

I had to change professions a number of years ago because I became much too qualified and experienced and frankly too old (in their opinions) when they could get a few underpaid kids to replace me, I'm doing OK now but what I went through in those years when corporate America ditched the deep well of experience represented by middle aged workers for a bunch of debt laden kids who would literally work for chicken feed has soured my faith that any empty management suit knows a damned thing about what is best for their companies.

So what you want then is 100% job security, and fuck those young wipper snappers for wanting a job!

 

[Darkwind]

I have to wonder at the entire conversation here.

My father was a welder. He was union his whole life and managed to get an Associates degree in programing in the early 80's while working 60+ hours a week welding the Bradley tank. He worked on Apollo's 11 and 15, and built a number of construction cranes when he was younger.

He worked fucking hard at becoming the very best welder in any shop he worked in. My father could walk out of any job and find another employer within a week. His resume and skills were that good.

Now, we hear about the mighty union worker who can't go out and find a job to save his life?

Maybe we are talking about two different animals.....The unions My father worked in had skilled labor....not pussies.

I had to change professions a number of years ago because I became much too qualified and experienced and frankly too old (in their opinions) when they could get a few underpaid kids to replace me, I'm doing OK now but what I went through in those years when corporate America ditched the deep well of experience represented by middle aged workers for a bunch of debt laden kids who would literally work for chicken feed has soured my faith that any empty management suit knows a damned thing about what is best for their companies.

I'm sorry to hear that. I truly am. Yet, if you've been around the block, then you understand, thems the breaks...

If your ultimately qualified to do what you are trained to do, then I would suggest taking a risk and doing it for yourself. I do understand the age discrimination thing. I feel it Myself.

But I'm not going to whine and bitch about it beyond grumbling about what pricks they are for not seeing a sure thing.

I'm going to go out and make it happen despite them. But then, I'm a prick that way.

 

[Darkwind]

I have to wonder at the entire conversation here.

My father was a welder. He was union his whole life and managed to get an Associates degree in programing in the early 80's while working 60+ hours a week welding the Bradley tank. He worked on Apollo's 11 and 15, and built a number of construction cranes when he was younger.

He worked fucking hard at becoming the very best welder in any shop he worked in. My father could walk out of any job and find another employer within a week. His resume and skills were that good.

Now, we hear about the mighty union worker who can't go out and find a job to save his life?

Maybe we are talking about two different animals.....The unions My father worked in had skilled labor....not pussies.

It is the anti union bullshit that is being spread.
What is worse is that the people that believe the anti union bullshit are the ones who C.B. would help the most

Its just the lies that I hate. Because I see it another way, they have to lie about My hating unions. I don't.

I don't have much use for them, but I don't hate them, and I don't want private unions destroyed. I just think they should survive or die like the rest of us....based upon your skills of survival.

 

[occupied]

I have to wonder at the entire conversation here.

My father was a welder. He was union his whole life and managed to get an Associates degree in programing in the early 80's while working 60+ hours a week welding the Bradley tank. He worked on Apollo's 11 and 15, and built a number of construction cranes when he was younger.

He worked fucking hard at becoming the very best welder in any shop he worked in. My father could walk out of any job and find another employer within a week. His resume and skills were that good.

Now, we hear about the mighty union worker who can't go out and find a job to save his life?

Maybe we are talking about two different animals.....The unions My father worked in had skilled labor....not pussies.

I had to change professions a number of years ago because I became much too qualified and experienced and frankly too old (in their opinions) when they could get a few underpaid kids to replace me, I'm doing OK now but what I went through in those years when corporate America ditched the deep well of experience represented by middle aged workers for a bunch of debt laden kids who would literally work for chicken feed has soured my faith that any empty management suit knows a damned thing about what is best for their companies.

So what you want then is 100% job security, and fuck those young wipper snappers for wanting a job!

Are you just being dense or what? If you were to get replaced with cheaper labor rather than better labor you would feel a little raw about it too. If you then went to look for other work and get told point blank that you are overqualified for every entry level position back to where you were before then you get a little mad, if you then had to work a shit job through school in middle age you get bitter, if you then got out to a new life of less pay and a bunch of student debt then you lose faith in the American dream where hard work and dedication is supposed to mean something.

 

[Darkwind]

that would defeat the point.

actions have consequences.....

while true, said boss most likely signed a prior agreement saying he/she wouldnt fire people if they striked.

so you have to factor that in

Employers ARE required to keep their word......any employer who doesn't deserves to go out of business.