We get to pay for student loans. Great.

[kaz]

Why do you believe the federal government should force people to pay fpr your student loans?

Lesh represents the party of white leftist elitists

 

[Red Front]

What horseshit. Ever watch HGTV? Try it sometime, especially the shows they highlight Europe. In general their dwellings are small, no basements, bathrooms most Americans would be embarrassed to show their friends. How do they have higher take home pay than Americans when so much is sucked out in taxes?

Here we have federal, state, and local taxes, sales taxes, social security, and other expenses. In my last place of employment, they were cutting $1.25 off of my hourly wage for medical coverage with United Health. I still had to pay co-payments and they actually refused to pay for a treatment that I needed to survive, without charging me thousands of dollars in deductibles hence I had to find another source of funding to get my open heart surgery. In this country, a large % of workers take home less due to all of the extra expenses we have to cover ourselves, plus taxes. In Europe taxes are enough and you get a robust system of social services and benefits.

 

[80zephyr]

You can't declare bankruptcy on student loans because, unlike real estate, there's nothing to repossess. Think better.

Are you actually saying you need tangible assets in order to declare bancrupcy?

Mark

 

[dblack]

No one has absolute individual liberty even in this society we're currently living in. We all have obligations and duties to our loved ones, friends, neighbors, and society/country. I was living in Costa Rica a few years ago as an American ex-pat, and my parents in Miami, got a letter sent to me from the local municipality, stating that I had to appear in court for jury selection and perhaps serve as a juror. Well, I was living in another country so I couldn't at that time fly to Miami to do that. I had to call the number given in the document sent to me and inform them that I wasn't in the country, hence I couldn't serve in that capacity, at that time. They granted me a waiver. Do you know what would've happened to me if I decided to exercise my supposed "DIVINE, ABSOLUTE INDIVIDUAL SOVEREIGNTY" and not inform them that I was in Costa Rica? The local Miami, Dade government could've issued an arrest warrant for me and my parents would've gotten a knock on the door by local law enforcement looking for their son, who thinks he's a type of god, who has no obligations to anyone, but himself.

In a socialist society, just like in this country, we have civic duties and obligations, one of which is to work, provided you can. That's not slavery, that's called life. Even in your own bible, it says, those who don't work, don't eat. Ever read that in your bible? Don't work, don't eat? If a person can't work, that's a different story, but if they can and refuse to work, then they deserve to be penalized, and punished, as lazy, worthless bums.

As far as working for the people's state or government, that's far from slavery, especially when citizens elect their representatives. When was the last time you participated in an election at your 9 to 5? Do you work in a worker-cooperative, run democratically? In Marxist socialism, the state apparatus can receive its authority from the people's councils or "soviets", which are comprised of workers and members of the communist party. Any citizen that declares themselves "communists", and attends monthly meetings, can vote. Did you think the socialist state just arbitrarily chooses the members of its congress? No, all of the members of congress are chosen and elected by the worker councils ("soviets"). More, in the workplace, whether you are a member of the communist party or not, you can vote for who becomes a manager or head of a department. So whether you are a member of the vanguard, communist party or not, you still have the capacity to vote.

I'm personally for a very strict form of socialism, however, others aren't as strict as I am. Some socialists believe all workers and citizens of the nation can vote, irrespective of whether they're members of the communist party or not. I believe only committed communists and members of the party, should be the only ones allowed to elect the members of congress.

Under capitalism, there is no vote in the workplace, unlike in socialism, where workers have much more power on how production is run. The state centrally plans the economy in cooperation with the worker-cooperatives of each industry. There is inquiry, respectful, considerate interaction and exchange of ideas, between the socialist state and the worker-cooperatives. Your idea of socialism is skewed by Western cold war propaganda.

THE ANTI-COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA MACHINE:





​

tl;dr

 

[Red Front]

But you said the able bodies "will work".
That is, they do not have a choice in the matter,
Did you mean to say "the will work... if they want to"?

If they want to, you mean.

Ah. There you go. They will work -- at gunpoint if necessary.

Just like anywhere. Do you think it's different or any better under our current system?

 

[Ralph Norton]

We get to pay for student loans. Great.

we should all be dead by "climate change" before any of that happens......so there's that!!! Climate change will simply force us all to adopt safe, abundant nuclear energy or some other clean energy source. I believe nuclear is the solution.

www.usmessageboard.com

I answered your question in the above post. You can ignore it and pretend your question wasn't adequately answered, but I expect that by anti-socialist polemicists. Those interested in descriptive, thorough answers will read my posts, and those who just want to attack socialism won't.

So rather than simply answering my question you expect me to go back and read all of your previous posts looking for the answer?
Why are you posting here anyway? What exactly do you hope to accomplish?
* but you do get 1 bonus point for using "polemicists" in a sentence - we are all suitably impressed.

 

[dblack]

Just like anywhere. Do you think it's different or any better under our current system?

Unequivocally.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Just like anywhere.

Well, no.
I can't think of a western democracy that forces, at gunpoint, the able bodies to work.

Do you think it's different or any better under our current system?

As the US does not force, at gunpoint, the able bodies to work - yes, its different here.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is no "utopia" in the foreseeable future, but there can be a better society and system than capitalism. Can you be more specific as to who are these people you refer to?

There is no better system than capitalism because capitalism is a reward system. The harder you work, the more you are rewarded in most cases. Capitalism made us the richest and most powerful country in the world.

 

[M14 Shooter]

There is no better system than capitalism because capitalism is a reward system.

It also most closely resembles human nature.

 

[Red Front]

So rather than simply answering my question you expect me to go back and read all of your previous posts looking for the answer?
Why are you posting here anyway? What exactly do you hope to accomplish?
* but you do get 1 bonus point for using "polemicists" in a sentence - we are all suitably impressed.

I provided you with a direct link to my answer to your question. Since then I've answered the question again and I will perhaps continue to expand upon this subject within the next few minutes. Someone else is now asking the same question. As far as why I'm here, why not? Why does a socialist have to justify or provide an explanation as to why they're here? Why are you here? I'm perhaps here for the same reason you are. To discuss politics, to test arguments, to learn something, to teach..etc.

 

[Orangecat]

Are you actually saying you need tangible assets in order to declare bancrupcy?

No, I'm saying you can't repossess an education.
I'm also saying " bancrupcy" isn't a word.

 

[petro]

Nothing but purchasing votes...

 

[Red Front]

There is no better system than capitalism because capitalism is a reward system. The harder you work, the more you are rewarded in most cases. Capitalism made us the richest and most powerful country in the world.

There are all types of reward systems and capitalism isn't the only one, nor necessarily the best and most applicable or compatible to present and future conditions. The US relied heavily on the government to develop its infrastructure, not to speak of slaves and settler colonial actions heavily supported by the state. This country is a plutocratic empire and the fact that it holds so much power doesn't imply that its current mode of production and economic system is eternal or incapable of being replaced with something better. We're still evolving.

 

[Red Front]

Unequivocally.

How is this system treating those who refuse to work any better than under socialism?

 

[dblack]

How is it better here for those who refuse to work?

Sorry. I can only read so much communist propaganda in one day, and I'm over my quota.

 

[Red Front]

Sorry. I can only read so much communist propaganda in one day, and I'm over my quota.

You don't want to answer because you know our current system actually punishes bums worse than socialism does. You're much worse off as a lazy bum under capitalism than under socialism. Sure you'll get punished as a lazy miscreant in a socialist society, but at least you'll be housed, fed, and rehabilitated. Perhaps you can just leave and go to a nation where you can be a lazy bum and live under a bridge? You can "defect" and go get a bed at the Salvation Army in Paterson, New Jersey.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How is this system treating those who refuse to work any better than under socialism?

One of three things happen under our system.
1: The state takes care of them.
2: Private charity (including family) takes care of them.
3: They die of starvation or neglect or both.

Of the three, option #1 is the least acceptable as it unnecessarily burderns the responsible, #3 most closely represents nature, and #2 is voluntary.

 

[Ralph Norton]

I provided you with a direct link to my answer to your question. Since then I've answered the question again and I will perhaps continue to expand upon this subject within the next few minutes. Someone else is now asking the same question. As far as why I'm here, why not? Why does a socialist have to justify or provide an explanation as to why they're here? Why are you here? I'm perhaps here for the same reason you are. To discuss politics, to test arguments, to learn something, to teach..etc.

"Why does a socialist have to justify or provide an explanation as to why they're here?"
I'm just curious why you expend such a large amount of time, thought, & effort to promote your politics in USMB? Surely even you must have noticed that you are virtually, if not completely, alone here in what you espouse?

 

[Red Front]

It also most closely resembles human nature.

Human nature evolves.