We get to pay for student loans. Great.

[Red Front]

One of three things happen under our system.
1: The state takes care of them.
2: Private charity (including family) takes care of them.
3: They die of starvation or neglect or both.

Of the three, option #1 is the least acceptable as it unnecessarily burderns the responsible, #3 most closely represents nature, and #2 is voluntary.

The state shouldn't take care of someone who refuses to work when they can. So your system is worse, much more flawed, than socialism. In your system, this exists:

​

In ours, we consider the above highly destructive, to the people who are suffering in that condition and to society in general. Look at all of those filthy streets, being occupied by these homeless drug addicts. Private charity and family aren't enough, that's why humanity evolved and formed something called "government", a social apparatus organized by people to manage their large-scale socioeconomic, civil affairs, and projects. Courts, law enforcement, military, public works..etc, is managed by the institution of human government.

If you're a bible believing Christian, you have no reason or justification to be so hostile towards government or an institution of governance and social organization because according to the bible it is a divinely created reality (Romans 13). According to your bible, Satan is the rebel spirit that inherently hates all government and ironically many of you supposed disciples of Jesus Christ seem to hate everything that has to do with government and the state. That's not a holy spirit you're manifesting, but rather demonic.

 

[kaz]

How many times will you partisans whip out this excuse? Just because your "opponent" does something bad, doesn't mean it's ok for you to do the same thing. Buying votes is a corruption of government. Stop defending it.

Democrats who tried to add a trillion a year over the next ten years to spending on socialist policies and giveaways complaining they hate Trump because he went a long with a bunch of their spending is classic, LOL.

Trump was fine with spending money and he spent way too much. But Donald H crying that Trump didn't stop him and so it's Trump's fault is just classic

 

[Mac1958]

I understand the desire to help. Lots of kids got fucked with the student loan shit. They got suckered in to loans they'd never be able to pay back. But we need to put a stop to the program that's causing the problem before we consider bailing out its victims. Biden's "gift" is just a bandaid to prop up a system that clearly isn't working.

Yep. America just loves band aids. A few obvious questions come to mind:

• What happens next year? Are we going to help THOSE graduates? And the years after?
• Why are we singling out people who usually do better in life with their degrees?
• What about those who played by the rules, sacrificed and paid their debts? Do they get free stuff, too?
• What about those who didn't go to college yet are gainfully employed?

Bad idea. Playing to the base. We don't fucking learn.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The state shouldn't take care of someone who refuses to work when they can.

As I said:
Option #1 is the least acceptable as it unnecessarily burdens the responsible,

So your system is worse, much more flawed, than socialism

In our system , we still have option #2 and option #3, both of which involcve people making a choice to act as they see fit.
Under your socialism, able bodies are forced to work at gunpoint.
How is that better?

 

[Donald H]

How many times will you partisans lean on this excuse? Just because your "opponent" does something bad, doesn't mean it's ok for you to do the same thing. Buying votes is a corruption of government. Stop defending it.

I'm a Canadian but I will suggest that all's fair in America's politics now, since the acceptance of Trump.

Bad begets bad and it's far too late to whine about it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm a Canadian but I will suggest that all's fair in America's politics now, since the acceptance of Trump.

Ah. Your understanding of history begins in 2017.
Explains a lot.

 

[Red Front]

Yep. America just loves band aids. A few obvious questions come to mind:

• What happens next year? Are we going to help THOSE graduates? And the years after?
• Why are we singling out people who usually do better in life with their degrees?
• What about those who played by the rules, sacrificed and paid their debts? Do they get free stuff, too?
• What about those who didn't go to college yet are gainfully employed?

Bad idea. Playing to the base. We don't fucking learn.

Education should be a human right, hence tuition free. Free at the point of service. The ROI, return on investment of having a well-educated, skilled, competent, informed, thoughtful populace, is priceless and immensely vital to our survival and success as a society, country, and species (i.e. mankind).

 

[Uncensored2008]

We get to pay for student loans. Great​

Shoulda got you one.

I did, but I paid it back.

It's an old concept - don't be a fucking deadbeat - you wouldn't understand.

No doubt you believe that only chumps pay their debts.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Education should be a human right, hence tuition free. Free at the point of service.

Nothing is free.

 

[Donald H]

The state shouldn't take care of someone who refuses to work when they can. So your system is worse, much more flawed, than socialism. In your system, this exists:

​

You would probably find that rea social change is no closer to Biden's mindset than it is to Trump's.
This speaks well for a fascist takeover of democracy as the only possible fix.

No wonder any prospect of change is so popular.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Less fair to who?

Make it make sense idiot.

It’s not fair to the people working who did not go to college. It’s not fair to the college graduates who were responsible in the loan amounts they took and paid it off. Big Education could do more to make college more affordable; cut unnecessary costs, pass the savings onto students.

 

[Red Front]

As I said:
Option #1 is the least acceptable as it unnecessarily burdens the responsible,

In our system , we still have option #2 and option #3, both of which involcve people making a choice to act as they see fit.
Under your socialism, able bodies are forced to work at gunpoint.
How is that better?

Sorry but life doesn't work that way. You may want to be a bum but if society decides that being a bum is illegal and unacceptable, you will be forced to comply with its rules or you can always leave that society and go live somewhere else. Maybe out in the woods with the squirrels and possums. In our society, bums destroy themselves and everything, everyone around them. Not in socialism, nope. You will be afforded the opportunity to be housed, in your own housing, fed, and receive the medical care that you need and training to acquire a skill, along with employment, but you're not allowed to be destructive. Homelessness and drug addiction are highly destructive, to the individuals who are in that condition and to society in general. No one has the right to behave that way in a civilized society, especially one that provides food, housing, clothing, healthcare, education, employment, a robust, modern public infrastructure with plenty of transportation, and everything imaginable in a technologically advanced civilization. There's no excuse for being a filthy bum.

 

[Red Front]

It’s not fair to the people working who did not go to college. It’s not fair to the college graduates who were responsible in the loan amounts they took and paid it off. Big Education could do more to make college more affordable; cut unnecessary costs, pass the savings onto students.

You're a communist?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Human nature evolves.

In your case, devolves.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Sorry but life doesn't work that way.

Oh, no no - -that's exactly how "life" works.
You don't work, you don't eat -- unless the state force someone else to take care of you -- which you agree is unacceptable - or someone chooses to take care of you

Under your socialism, able bodies are forced to work at gunpoint.
How is that better?

 

[Red Front]

Oh, no no - -that's exactly how "life" works.
You won't work, you don't eat -- unless the state force ssomeone else to take care of you -- which you agree is unacceptable - or someone chooses to take care of you

Under your socialism, able bodies are forced to work at gunpoint.
How is that better?

It's better for the obvious reasons I already explained. In America, no one will force you to work, but they will force you into the woods. You can't sleep on the sidewalk or behind a Starbucks, without getting fined, arrested..etc, in most cities. That's "gunpoint" isn't it? In most cities, homelessness is illegal, especially in right-wing conservative-run communities. You're forced to find a homeless shelter and if there aren't any beds in that shelter, you're out of luck. You're going to risk getting fined or arrested by the police, for sleeping outside on public property or perhaps behind a shopping mall. Socialism houses everyone, so no one is homeless and if someone insists on being homeless they get in trouble, just like in America, in the vast majority of municipalities. Someone who refuses to work, even 20 hours a week, in a socialist society, is probably mentally ill.

 

[LeftofLeft]

You're a communist?

Far from it. Just pointing out the obvious that more unfairness is being generated by making people who were responsible not to take on egregious debt for overvalued college education.

If there is any good that can come out of this is that more financial criteria and controls can be put into place so that people don’t bury themselves in college loans that can’t be paid off.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Sorry but life doesn't work that way. You may want to be a bum but if society decides that being a bum is illegal and unacceptable, you will be forced to comply with its rules or you can always leave that society and go live somewhere else. Maybe out in the woods with the squirrels and possums. In our society, bums destroy themselves and everything, everyone around them. Not in socialism, nope. You will be afforded the opportunity to be housed, in your own housing, fed, and receive the medical care that you need and training to acquire a skill, along with employment, but you're not allowed to be destructive. Homelessness and drug addiction are highly destructive, to the individuals who are in that condition and to society in general. No one has the right to behave that way in a civilized society, especially one that provides food, housing, clothing, healthcare, education, employment, a robust, modern public infrastructure with plenty of transportation, and everything imaginable in a technologically advanced civilization. There's no excuse for being a filthy bum.

Two motivators: The dollar or the whip.

You prefer the whip.

Decent people prefer the dollar.

 

[WEATHER53]

Dozens of us are going to write it off as a tax credit

 

[Red Front]

Far from it. Just pointing out the obvious that more unfairness is being generated by making people who were responsible not to take on egregious debt for overvalued college education.

If there is any good that can come out of this is that more financial criteria and controls can be put into place so that people don’t bury themselves in college loans that can’t be paid off.

Oh I see, Che is picking his nose in your profile pick. OK, you're obviously not a communist. I thought you were my comrade.