Welfare Cowboy

[flacaltenn]

So bottom line on this OP -- When you understand that this is not about the LAST HOLDOUT on the land grab -- there is no rabble-rousing militia story.. It's about the residents who understand the land and the long history of management abuse and arrogance. Its the knowledge of the callousness of the morons in charge.. Folks whose HOMES AND RANCHES were on the border of the Nevada Test Site and were driving cattle during those tests. NOT a story of insurrection, and sedition... You wont get that story sitting in your urban apartment listening to CNN and playing your partisian political games..

 

[CaféAuLait]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

Not to change the subject but...

Are you a reptile hater, you're certainy not the environmentalist you claimed to be in past posts or-----or maybe you're just a bird lover. If you're a bird lover how-----how can you support Bundy et al, wiping out an endangered species of bird while complaining about bird kills by windmills?
.

Bundy has not wiped out any species, when did birds become part of this matter?

It is the desert tortoise whose existence is endangered by people-- hikers and visitors to the area who thought it hilarious to pick up the animals because they void a years worth of life sustaining water they have stored when they are picked up by humans. Humans who run them over in the area, humans who leave trash behind for them to consume. And guess what that trash and road kill attract ravens who kill the turtle eggs.

The factors contributing to their dramatic increase (ravens) include more roads, thus more roadkill; landfills; powerline poles, an ideal lookout post for hungry ravens; and littering. Litter in the park attracts ravens, so please dispose of your garbage responsibly.

Strangely, the 6 million visitors to the area each year who camp, hike, hunt and kill animals, run horses, cars ATVs, drive over the turtles, etc., are not required to pay one red cent to the government to ensure the turtle is not endangered by their presence and torment of the animals.

Endangered Species International

Desert Tortoise - Joshua Tree National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

http://www.birdandhike.com/Areas/GoldButte/_gb_area.htm

 

[CaféAuLait]

I dont know the whole story on the reason why. To me thats not an issue. The ranchers are not entitled to graze on that land if they no longer have the grazing rights. Have you ever considered Bundy actually caused all of this by not paying his fees? All it takes is one bad apple to screw it up for everyone else.

Rumors about politics are behind most things like this. It may or may not be true but the point is that they simply do not have a legal right to continue grazing the land. If this land was owned by the ranchers then I would be concerned. As it is they don't have a leg to stand on. The ones that paid used the land so that was fair exchange. The free loader got off from paying but not for long.

Perhaps its is history Asclepias and what is going on as we speak? BLM is trying to take this guys 90 acres he owns and has always paid taxes on.

Oklahoma-Texas border dispute has ranchers worried



Oklahoma-Texas border dispute has ranchers worried



And then you have this guy, a federal judge said BLM was wrong and lambasted a conspiracy by the BLM.

Wayne Hage ( same thing as Bundy but this was over a plant not a turtle) and he was awarded millions because of BLM and the Forestry service.

152.
Following this spirit, as well as the law and the evidence, the Court hereby finds that the
Government’s actions amount to a taking of Plaintiffs’ property with respect to their surface water rights and their 1866 Act ditches. The Court further finds that the Government dedicated Plaintiffs’ historical grazing lands to “another public purpose” for the purposes of 43 U.S.C. § 1752(g). Thus, Plaintiffs are hereby14 When the government takes an individual’s property, the owner “is entitled to interestthereon sufficient to insure that he is placed in as good of a position pecuniarily as he wouldhave occupied if the payment had coincided with the appropriation.” Kirby Forest Indus. Inc. v.United States, 467 U.S. 1, 10 (1984); see CCA Associates v. United States, 75 Fed. Cl. 170, 204(2007).18AWARDED $2,854,816,20 for the value of their water rights plus $1,365,615 for the value of their improvements, for a total award of $ 4,220,431.20, plus interest from the date of the taking14 and attorney’s fees and costs under the Uniform Relocation Act, 42 U.S.C. § 4654(c).

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/fedclaim/2008/911470lp.pdf

Perhaps Bundy sees this and knows of the above ruling and that is what is he acting on as well? IDK.

But as you see above BLM is trying to take lands owned and paid taxes on.

Right or wrong the 5th amendment allows for the government to take your land as long as they pay fair market value. I may be mistaken but in the cases the BLM handled it wrong and did not pay did they not lose in court and have to pay?

I think that is totally different from grazing on land you do not own and just deciding you are not going to pay. Bundy may have very well used those cases to drum up support for his illegal activity. I think that makes him a fraud in addition to being a free loader.

Yes, in the first case BLM was forced to pay 4 million, nearly 29 years after the fact and after the farmer had died and his business suffered severely because of it. That is how long the case went though the court system- 29 years! Hardly fair at all.

The second case the rancher had over 120 acres taken from him by BLM and they refused to pay for it even though he had been paying taxes and had a deed to the property. -he is currently suing, but BLM is back for a second bite of 90 acres.

 

[flacaltenn]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

Not to change the subject but...

Are you a reptile hater, you're certainy not the environmentalist you claimed to be in past posts or-----or maybe you're just a bird lover. If you're a bird lover how-----how can you support Bundy et al, wiping out an endangered species of bird while complaining about bird kills by windmills?
.

You're making charges that are not in evidence. That flycatcher habitat is restricted to about 40 yards either side of the Virgin River. The only Bundy impact is on the 100 acres he OWNS on the river.. Nothing to do with the BLM grazing land. In addition, the BLM has sponsored experimental import of Bush Eating Beetles to combat non-native plant species in that area.. The same bush material PREFERRED by this bird...

Virgin River | webdev.msi.ucsb.edu
Beetles were moved by managers to St. George in 2006, then dispersed down the Virgin River where in 2010 they defoliated plants through the Virgin Valley and in subsequent years continued moving to the Mormon Mesa area in 2011 and in 2012 to Lake Mead, including the inflow from the mainstem Colorado River. Beetles scrape the foliage, causing it to dry out, but it takes several years to kill the weed. Instead, they will gradually decline leaving native plants to recover and re-colonize the riverbanks.

Biocontrol is not without risk; while Diorhabda poses no threat to other plants, wildlife managers worry that defoliation may threaten the willow flycatcher, an endangered bird that nests in tamarisk at some Virgin River sites, and defoliation during breeding can expose nests to the elements. Recovery of willows and other native trees will provide better future habitat, but wildlife agencies must consider even short-term risk of harm. Thus, monitoring is needed to assess positive and negative responses, and to identify where actions such as restoration should be focused to minimize risks.

The cattle and the melon-growing have done far less damage and the phoney charges by the BLM are because matching private grants for habitat restoration are delayed until the BLM can EVICT all those ranchers from the area. Just folks wanting a pristine hedge on their enviro charity..

How can I be upset by solar thermal towers burning birds out of the sky? SERIOUSLY?
In the same damn desert where you are worried about 1000 cows?
How can I be upset by wind farms getting permits to KILL EAGLES, while any other project would be fined or shutdown? Wind farms deny habitat.. It's not about the number of kills. It's about removing TERRITORIAL species by attrition within a several mile RADIUS of any windmill toy...

Givemeabreak...

 

[Star]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

Not to change the subject but...

Are you a reptile hater, you're certainy not the environmentalist you claimed to be in past posts or-----or maybe you're just a bird lover. If you're a bird lover how-----how can you support Bundy et al, wiping out an endangered species of bird while complaining about bird kills by windmills?
.

Bundy has not wiped out any species, when did birds become part of this matter?

It is the desert tortoise whose existence is endangered by people-- hikers and visitors to the area who thought it hilarious to pick up the animals because they void a years worth of life sustaining water they have stored when they are picked up by humans. Humans who run them over in the area, humans who leave trash behind for them to consume. And guess what that trash and road kill attract ravens who kill the turtle eggs.

The factors contributing to their dramatic increase (ravens) include more roads, thus more roadkill; landfills; powerline poles, an ideal lookout post for hungry ravens; and littering. Litter in the park attracts ravens, so please dispose of your garbage responsibly.

Strangely, the 6 million visitors to the area each year who camp, hike, hunt and kill animals, run horses, cars ATVs, drive over the turtles, etc., are not required to pay one red cent to the government to ensure the turtle is not endangered by their presence and torment of the animals.

Endangered Species International

Desert Tortoise - Joshua Tree National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

Gold Butte Region - Area Overview

I don't expect much in the way of rightwinger reading skills or search engine skills but-----but just to be clear, I didn't say the Sage Grouse had been wiped out, I asked a self described environmentalist how s/he could support wiping out an endangered species.

EPA Sage Grouse Endangered Listing Obscured By Bundy Range War - Farm Progress
.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Not to change the subject but...

Are you a reptile hater, you're certainy not the environmentalist you claimed to be in past posts or-----or maybe you're just a bird lover. If you're a bird lover how-----how can you support Bundy et al, wiping out an endangered species of bird while complaining about bird kills by windmills?
.

Bundy has not wiped out any species, when did birds become part of this matter?

It is the desert tortoise whose existence is endangered by people-- hikers and visitors to the area who thought it hilarious to pick up the animals because they void a years worth of life sustaining water they have stored when they are picked up by humans. Humans who run them over in the area, humans who leave trash behind for them to consume. And guess what that trash and road kill attract ravens who kill the turtle eggs.

The factors contributing to their dramatic increase (ravens) include more roads, thus more roadkill; landfills; powerline poles, an ideal lookout post for hungry ravens; and littering. Litter in the park attracts ravens, so please dispose of your garbage responsibly.

Strangely, the 6 million visitors to the area each year who camp, hike, hunt and kill animals, run horses, cars ATVs, drive over the turtles, etc., are not required to pay one red cent to the government to ensure the turtle is not endangered by their presence and torment of the animals.

Endangered Species International

Desert Tortoise - Joshua Tree National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

Gold Butte Region - Area Overview

I don't expect much in the way of rightwinger reading skills or search engine skills but-----but just to be clear, I didn't say the Sage Grouse had been wiped out, I asked a self described environmentalist how s/he could support wiping out an endangered species.

EPA Sage Grouse Endangered Listing Obscured By Bundy Range War - Farm Progress
.

You said:

If you're a bird lover how-----how can you support Bundy et al, wiping out an endangered species of bird while complaining about bird kills by windmills?

Yes, you certainly did suggest Bundy, et al wiped out the species of bird.

But guess what? People are allowed to HUNT and kill Sage grouse in Nevada. Stop blaming Bundy for everything. Start blaming those who call the bird threatened but ALLOW hunting. Sheesh!

NDOW follows guidelines established by the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (WAFWA) that suggest hunter harvest should not exceed 10% of the estimated fall population and populations should not be hunted where less than 300 individuals comprise the breeding population. Since 2004, the statewide harvest of sage-grouse during the hunting season has been between 2% and 6% of the estimated fall population annually.

http://www.ndow.org/uploadedFiles/n...da_Wildlife/Sage-grouse Hunting in Nevada.pdf


Nevada Department of Wildlife

If they are so freaking endangered/threatened why are people allow to blow their heads off? What do you think is doing more harm cows or people with guns?

 

[flacaltenn]

Sage Grouse was NEVER MENTIONED in the list of charges against the Bundy ranch.. But the FlyCatchers were... Fact...

Here is the ?notorious? missing BLM page connecting to Harry Reid (not) | The Wildlife News

 

[Star]

Progs are upset that a few hundred people came out to push back against a tyrannical government.

LOL

"When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Hammond, 1821. ME 15:332

Glad you brought up Thomas Jefferson.

As you know, this range war has less to do with a criminal cowboy than it does about what's behind Bundy and the AFP funded rabble-rousers. If Bundy is allowed to win this battle, America's pollution will compete with Beijing's and-----and the Koch brothers stand to be the big winners in this range war but more importantly-----more importantly the American people will be the big losers.

Thomas Jefferson warned us about stacking to much wealth in to few hands...

"It should seem then that it must be because of the enormous wealth, which places them above attention to the increase of their revenues, that I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable, but [that] the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." ~ Thomas Jefferson
.

 

[JFK_USA]

Angry conservatives don't want to look in the mirror and see that their hero is just as much of a welfare queen as the food stamp surfer they like to point to and say ALL food stamps participants are like that.

Honestly most just wanted an excuse to use their big guns to have some significance in their lives. I mean you see those videos of those militias men and they just wanted a fight. They are so pissed off that life sucks and they want to kill people legally. Even though killing government agents is not legal at all and even if they wanted to plead self defense, no one would believe them because they wanted a fight and came with guns to have that fight.

I have a question. If this was a black inner city man who had a bunch of black militia members defying a court order saying it was their property and not the federal government's property with guns, would you say they are patriots or criminal thugs? I know what the true answer is but I would love to see the honesty from conservatives.

 

[Howey]

Angry conservatives don't want to look in the mirror and see that their hero is just as much of a welfare queen as the food stamp surfer they like to point to and say ALL food stamps participants are like that.

Honestly most just wanted an excuse to use their big guns to have some significance in their lives. I mean you see those videos of those militias men and they just wanted a fight. They are so pissed off that life sucks and they want to kill people legally. Even though killing government agents is not legal at all and even if they wanted to plead self defense, no one would believe them because they wanted a fight and came with guns to have that fight.

I have a question. If this was a black inner city man who had a bunch of black militia members defying a court order saying it was their property and not the federal government's property with guns, would you say they are patriots or criminal thugs? I know what the true answer is but I would love to see the honesty from conservatives.

What's funny is most of them are fatass old grubby men who couldn't keep up with a tortoise.

The wild, wild west is soo two centuries ago.

 

[Star]

Angry conservatives don't want to look in the mirror and see that their hero is just as much of a welfare queen as the food stamp surfer they like to point to and say ALL food stamps participants are like that.

Honestly most just wanted an excuse to use their big guns to have some significance in their lives. I mean you see those videos of those militias men and they just wanted a fight. They are so pissed off that life sucks and they want to kill people legally. Even though killing government agents is not legal at all and even if they wanted to plead self defense, no one would believe them because they wanted a fight and came with guns to have that fight.

I have a question. If this was a black inner city man who had a bunch of black militia members defying a court order saying it was their property and not the federal government's property with guns, would you say they are patriots or criminal thugs? I know what the true answer is but I would love to see the honesty from conservatives.

Another thing angry conservatives (is that a redundancy?) don't want to look in the mirror about is who signed... Executive Order 12548 -- Grazing Fees

February 14, 1986

​

.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Progs are upset that a few hundred people came out to push back against a tyrannical government.

LOL

"When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Hammond, 1821. ME 15:332

Glad you brought up Thomas Jefferson.

As you know, this range war has less to do with a criminal cowboy than it does about what's behind Bundy and the AFP funded rabble-rousers. If Bundy is allowed to win this battle, America's pollution will compete with Beijing's and-----and the Koch brothers stand to be the big winners in this range war but more importantly-----more importantly the American people will be the big losers.

Thomas Jefferson warned us about stacking to much wealth in to few hands...

"It should seem then that it must be because of the enormous wealth, which places them above attention to the increase of their revenues, that I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable, but [that] the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." ~ Thomas Jefferson
.

(Emphasis added)

Seriously, you believe 700- 900 cows will put the US on par with Beijing when it comes to pollution? Where did you read that, I'm curious.

What of the bears ( yes, bears in the scrub) deer, rams, wild horses, deer mule, coyote, antelope, squirrel, bob cats, etc, etc which roam the area? Are they affecting the turtles and the scrub-grouse (which is allowed to be hunted by humans) ? Are those thousands of indigenous animals upping our pollution to make it on par with Beijing?

Nevada Department of Wildlife

 

[ABikerSailor]

That was their concept of land use.. And environmental stewardship.. Probably CONTRIBUTED to the demise of any desert tortoises for DECADES...

And by the way, the nuclear testing was done in New Mexico, not Nevada.

Surely you're joking right? The original couple of experimental tests were at the NM site. But the bulk of the 1000 nuclear explosions were in the Nevada Test site within earshot of Las Vegas and not far at all from where this latest news is playing out.. Howard Hughes used to go nuts everytime he felt the ground shake on the LV Strip..

Ground Zero for the home of the "threatened" Desert Tortoises...

Got any links that prove that the bulk of 1,000 nuclear explosions were in the Nevada test site?

I don't think that the U.S. has detonated 1,000 nuclear explosions.

I call bullshit unless you can provide a link to prove it.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Angry conservatives don't want to look in the mirror and see that their hero is just as much of a welfare queen as the food stamp surfer they like to point to and say ALL food stamps participants are like that.

Honestly most just wanted an excuse to use their big guns to have some significance in their lives. I mean you see those videos of those militias men and they just wanted a fight. They are so pissed off that life sucks and they want to kill people legally. Even though killing government agents is not legal at all and even if they wanted to plead self defense, no one would believe them because they wanted a fight and came with guns to have that fight.

I have a question. If this was a black inner city man who had a bunch of black militia members defying a court order saying it was their property and not the federal government's property with guns, would you say they are patriots or criminal thugs? I know what the true answer is but I would love to see the honesty from conservatives.

Another thing angry conservatives (is that a redundancy?) don't want to look in the mirror about is who signed... Executive Order 12548 -- Grazing Fees

February 14, 1986

​

.

Um, yes he signed that to make the existing law better than it was.

Carter ( and presidents before him) signed grazing fees before Reagan did:

Public Ranchlands Improvement Act 1978

(

3) charge a fee for public grazing use which is equitable and reflects the concerns addressed in paragraph (a)(5) above;

http://www.publiclandscouncil.org/C... Rangelands Improvement Act (PRIA) - 1978.pdf


Did you know that Reagan called himself a "sagebrush rebel" to let those ranchers during the Sagebrush Rebellion in the 70s and 80s know he supported them? And he did so with many laws.

Sagebrush Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reagan sent the ranchers of the Sagebrush Rebellion a personal telegram, from his 700 acre ranch in California, it said in part:

Ronald Reagan sent a telegram to the "Sagebrush Convention" in Salt Lake City.

In the telegram President-elect Reagan sent "best wishes to all my fellow 'Sagebrush Rebels'" and gave the conventioneers some hope for a successful campaign to turn federal land over to more local control. Reagan wrote, "I renew my pledge to work toward a 'sagebrush solution.' My administration will work to ensure that states have an equitable share of public lands and their natural resources. To all, good luck and thanks for your support."

Just because there is a Internet "meme" as you found above, it must come with context, instead of jumping to conclusions.

 

[CaféAuLait]

And by the way, the nuclear testing was done in New Mexico, not Nevada.

Surely you're joking right? The original couple of experimental tests were at the NM site. But the bulk of the 1000 nuclear explosions were in the Nevada Test site within earshot of Las Vegas and not far at all from where this latest news is playing out.. Howard Hughes used to go nuts everytime he felt the ground shake on the LV Strip..

Ground Zero for the home of the "threatened" Desert Tortoises...

Got any links that prove that the bulk of 1,000 nuclear explosions were in the Nevada test site?

I don't think that the U.S. has detonated 1,000 nuclear explosions.

I call bullshit unless you can provide a link to prove it.

I'll provide one and this was just in Nevada from the years of 1951 to 1992, a total of 1,021 nuclear detonations in Nevada:

The Nevada Test Site was the primary testing location of American nuclear devices from 1951 to 1992; 928 announced nuclear tests occurred there. Of those, 828 were underground.[6] (Sixty-two of the underground tests included multiple, simultaneous nuclear detonations, adding 93 detonations and bringing the total number of NTS nuclear detonations to 1,021, of which 921 were underground.)[7] The site is covered with subsidence craters from the testing.

Nevada Test Site - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if you don't trust WIKI, here is the same info from the US Department of Energy public library:


http://www.nv.doe.gov/library/publications/historical/DOENV_209_REV15.pdf

Just one crater from just one detonation:

Crater "Sedan" nuclear test as part of Operation Plowshare. The 104 kiloton blast displaced 12 million tons of earth and created a crater 320 feet deep and 1,280 feet wide. (Look to the size of the roads in the bottom-right of the picture, and the observation deck at the lower-right edge of the crater, for a sense of scale)


Do you know what's crazy? it's 2014 and we tested less nukes at Bikini Atoll than in Nevada, 60, yes, 60 years later those islanders still can't return to their islands because of the contamination.

Bikini Atoll nuclear test: 60 years later and islands still unliveable

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/02/bikini-atoll-nuclear-test-60-years

And what's ever crazier? The Feds wanted to rescind Bundy's grazing lease in 1993, less than a year after the last nuclear test in Nevada in 1992, because they were concerned about the turtles and cows grazing in the area. GMAB! The Feds knew of the horrid conditions in Bikini Atoll and STILL kept testing in Nevada till 1992.

Bad cows!

 

[TemplarKormac]

"Welfare Cowboy"

Interesting use of terminology. I thought you wanted people to take advantage of welfare? But here you are criticizing someone who actually does it? Your logic is... odd.

 

[Old Rocks]

Is Liberal ideology closer to that of Jefferson or Stalin?

Well, let's see. Jefferson believed in the rule of law, and used government to grow the nation and improve the lot of the people. Stalin also grew the Soviet nation, at the point of a gun.

So who here is worshipping the gun, and using them to intimidate people? It ain't the liberals.

 

[Howey]

Progs are upset that a few hundred people came out to push back against a tyrannical government.

LOL

"When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Hammond, 1821. ME 15:332

Glad you brought up Thomas Jefferson.

As you know, this range war has less to do with a criminal cowboy than it does about what's behind Bundy and the AFP funded rabble-rousers. If Bundy is allowed to win this battle, America's pollution will compete with Beijing's and-----and the Koch brothers stand to be the big winners in this range war but more importantly-----more importantly the American people will be the big losers.

Thomas Jefferson warned us about stacking to much wealth in to few hands...

"It should seem then that it must be because of the enormous wealth, which places them above attention to the increase of their revenues, that I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable, but [that] the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." ~ Thomas Jefferson
.

(Emphasis added)

Seriously, you believe 700- 900 cows will put the US on par with Beijing when it comes to pollution? Where did you read that, I'm curious.

What of the bears ( yes, bears in the scrub) deer, rams, wild horses, deer mule, coyote, antelope, squirrel, bob cats, etc, etc which roam the area? Are they affecting the turtles and the scrub-grouse (which is allowed to be hunted by humans) ? Are those thousands of indigenous animals upping our pollution to make it on par with Beijing?

Nevada Department of Wildlife

I love how you guys post snippets of Jefferson quotes and either don't understand them or don't tell the whole story.

Did you know that Jefferson went on to say:

It is too soon yet in our country to say that every man who cannot find employment but who can find uncultivated land, shall be at liberty to cultivate it, paying a moderate rent.

 

[Crystalclear]

Angry conservatives don't want to look in the mirror and see that their hero is just as much of a welfare queen as the food stamp surfer they like to point to and say ALL food stamps participants are like that.

Honestly most just wanted an excuse to use their big guns to have some significance in their lives. I mean you see those videos of those militias men and they just wanted a fight. They are so pissed off that life sucks and they want to kill people legally. Even though killing government agents is not legal at all and even if they wanted to plead self defense, no one would believe them because they wanted a fight and came with guns to have that fight.

I have a question. If this was a black inner city man who had a bunch of black militia members defying a court order saying it was their property and not the federal government's property with guns, would you say they are patriots or criminal thugs? I know what the true answer is but I would love to see the honesty from conservatives.

Another thing angry conservatives (is that a redundancy?) don't want to look in the mirror about is who signed... Executive Order 12548 -- Grazing Fees

February 14, 1986

​

.

Weapons are legal for self-defense against killers. It's not legal to just kill somebody with that weapon. The latter part is what militias do, but it is not legal.

 

[Asclepias]

"Welfare Cowboy"

Interesting use of terminology. I thought you wanted people to take advantage of welfare? But here you are criticizing someone who actually does it? Your logic is... odd.

Why would you or anyone want a wealthy rancher free loading? He doesn't need welfare.