Welfare Cowboy

[flacaltenn]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

 

[ABikerSailor]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

Hey stupid........................when was the last time that the U.S. exploded a nuclear weapon?

For that matter, do you know how much land is REALLY used for military purposes in NV? Got news for you, it's not that much.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yes relevance. At what point did any of the ranchers own the property? If you are trying to tie the other ranchers case in with Bundys then you are confusing the issue. If I hire a new property management company to oversee my properties my tenants don't have my permission to not pay the rent because they don't like them. Bundy is wrong. He had his more reasoned and civil discussion. He even had his day in court 2 times. At what point do I stop having to beg you to get off my property and send the sheriffs to forcefully remove you?

He HAS been removed.. Officially anyways.. Along with the ENTIRE COMMUNITIES in that area.. Just give me your take on the WISDOM on that move.. To shut down 16 100yr old cattle ranches and the community associated with them? Was there a cause? What was it?

The other ranchers ARE INTIMATELY tied to this case. They were just stupid enough to pay the entity that now wants to shut down their 100 yrs of operation.. You are understanding that BLM wants that land VACANT AND UNUSED.. By ANYONE.. As far as we know. Because there are rumors that this is a first step to Harry Reid paying off some political debts.

I dont know the whole story on the reason why. To me thats not an issue. The ranchers are not entitled to graze on that land if they no longer have the grazing rights. Have you ever considered Bundy actually caused all of this by not paying his fees? All it takes is one bad apple to screw it up for everyone else.

Rumors about politics are behind most things like this. It may or may not be true but the point is that they simply do not have a legal right to continue grazing the land. If this land was owned by the ranchers then I would be concerned. As it is they don't have a leg to stand on. The ones that paid used the land so that was fair exchange. The free loader got off from paying but not for long.

Nice try Pappy.. Smooth move.. Suggesting that ONLY IF Bundy had written those checks, the Feds would have had the money to keep that area open to ranching operations.. That money went to pay for wars in Afghan/Iraq and Viagra for Fed employees. Just like the proceeds from the National Parks who have to BEG for funds even tho they are one of the few PROFITABLE operations of the Federal Govt.. (or could be).

 

[Asclepias]

Sedition:

"opposing or resisting any law of the United States"

Civil disobedience:

Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government.

Its funny when left-wingers protest it is Civil disobedience when right-wingers protest its sedition. Left-wingers who blew up the Pentagon and Capitol and half a city block are remembered as 'revolutionaries' while Bundy is an asshole seditionist.

Occupy cost taxpayers tens of millions, this man owes 1.1 million. Occupy is getting settlements from local and state governments for books and other items left on federal and public property after they were told to vacate. Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Why should taxpayers pay for their items? What is the difference between Bundy's cows or their trash left behind after being told to leave? Nothing if you care about public lands being used without permission and trashed.

Civil disobedience is non violent refusal to comply with certain laws/rules.

Sedition typically is violent and is conduct or language intended to incite rebellion against a lawful government.

Kinda like the guy who blew up the Pentagon, Capitol and half a NY city block, killing three? Yet, he is highly regarded and in fact applauded on occasion by the left and in fact was a Key Note speaker at the Occupy protests.

Seriously, I see a lot of disconnect when it comes to those who are looked to as revolutionaries or radicals by the left, like Bill Ayers. Even murderers like Kathy Boudin are respected professors teaching our children and being awarded prestigious titles etc.

I think its BS to be quite honest, if one is going to rant against Bundy then they need to rant against Occupy as well. And, if one is going to rant against Occupy they can't state they are in support of Bundy but opposed to Occupy. That too would be hypocritical as well.

You have nut cases on the extreme left and the extreme right. All of them are simply nutcases or dedicated to their cause. Thats the whole point of being extreme. If someone actually told me Kathy Boudin was involved in "civil disobedience" prior to being imprisoned I would laugh at them. She did her time though and someone hired her after she got out. You cant dictate what and who people respect unless you control the media.

 

[flacaltenn]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

Hey stupid........................when was the last time that the U.S. exploded a nuclear weapon?

For that matter, do you know how much land is REALLY used for military purposes in NV? Got news for you, it's not that much.

That was their concept of land use.. And environmental stewardship.. Probably CONTRIBUTED to the demise of any desert tortoises for DECADES...

 

[Asclepias]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

No one cares what the ranchers are angry about. It was not their land to be angry about in the first place. Sounds like a whole lot of entitlement going on. Words like slaughtering only provoke emotional responses. Whats really going on? Are they culling to prevent the spread of disease? Who knows and frankly why is that a reason for the free loader to continue free loading? Leaving an area vacant is not the same as leaving it unproductive. It may now be unproductive to a rancher but to an environmentalist it may be the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

Hey stupid........................when was the last time that the U.S. exploded a nuclear weapon?

For that matter, do you know how much land is REALLY used for military purposes in NV? Got news for you, it's not that much.

That was their concept of land use.. And environmental stewardship.. Probably CONTRIBUTED to the demise of any desert tortoises for DECADES...

And by the way, the nuclear testing was done in New Mexico, not Nevada.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Yes relevance. At what point did any of the ranchers own the property? If you are trying to tie the other ranchers case in with Bundys then you are confusing the issue. If I hire a new property management company to oversee my properties my tenants don't have my permission to not pay the rent because they don't like them. Bundy is wrong. He had his more reasoned and civil discussion. He even had his day in court 2 times. At what point do I stop having to beg you to get off my property and send the sheriffs to forcefully remove you?

He HAS been removed.. Officially anyways.. Along with the ENTIRE COMMUNITIES in that area.. Just give me your take on the WISDOM on that move.. To shut down 16 100yr old cattle ranches and the community associated with them? Was there a cause? What was it?

The other ranchers ARE INTIMATELY tied to this case. They were just stupid enough to pay the entity that now wants to shut down their 100 yrs of operation.. You are understanding that BLM wants that land VACANT AND UNUSED.. By ANYONE.. As far as we know. Because there are rumors that this is a first step to Harry Reid paying off some political debts.

I dont know the whole story on the reason why. To me thats not an issue. The ranchers are not entitled to graze on that land if they no longer have the grazing rights. Have you ever considered Bundy actually caused all of this by not paying his fees? All it takes is one bad apple to screw it up for everyone else.

Rumors about politics are behind most things like this. It may or may not be true but the point is that they simply do not have a legal right to continue grazing the land. If this land was owned by the ranchers then I would be concerned. As it is they don't have a leg to stand on. The ones that paid used the land so that was fair exchange. The free loader got off from paying but not for long.

Perhaps its is history Asclepias and what is going on as we speak? BLM is trying to take this guys 90 acres he owns and has always paid taxes on.

Oklahoma-Texas border dispute has ranchers worried

How can BLM come in and say, "Hey, this isn't yours." Even though it’s patented from the state, you've always paid taxes on it. Our family has paid taxes for over 100 years on this place. We've got a deed to it. But yet they walked in and said it wasn't ours," said Henderson

Oklahoma-Texas border dispute has ranchers worried



And then you have this guy, a federal judge said BLM was wrong and lambasted a conspiracy by the BLM.

Wayne Hage ( same thing as Bundy but this was over a plant not a turtle) and he was awarded millions because of BLM and the Forestry service.

In 1991, Plaintiffs filed a claim against the United States alleging Constitutional,
contractual, and statutory causes of action arising from an alleged suspension and cancellation of permits to graze livestock on federal land

Thus, multiplying 17,568.1 AF by $162.50, the Court finds that Plaintiffs are entitled to the
amount of $2,854,816.20 for the value of their water rights.

152.
Following this spirit, as well as the law and the evidence, the Court hereby finds that the
Government’s actions amount to a taking of Plaintiffs’ property with respect to their surface water rights and their 1866 Act ditches. The Court further finds that the Government dedicated Plaintiffs’ historical grazing lands to “another public purpose” for the purposes of 43 U.S.C. § 1752(g). Thus, Plaintiffs are hereby14 When the government takes an individual’s property, the owner “is entitled to interestthereon sufficient to insure that he is placed in as good of a position pecuniarily as he wouldhave occupied if the payment had coincided with the appropriation.” Kirby Forest Indus. Inc. v.United States, 467 U.S. 1, 10 (1984); see CCA Associates v. United States, 75 Fed. Cl. 170, 204(2007).18AWARDED $2,854,816,20 for the value of their water rights plus $1,365,615 for the value of their improvements, for a total award of $ 4,220,431.20, plus interest from the date of the taking14 and attorney’s fees and costs under the Uniform Relocation Act, 42 U.S.C. § 4654(c).

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/fedclaim/2008/911470lp.pdf

Perhaps Bundy sees this and knows of the above ruling and that is what is he acting on as well? IDK.

But as you see above BLM is trying to take lands owned and paid taxes on.

 

[OnePercenter]

Progs are upset that a few hundred people came out to push back against a tyrannical government.

Rational people are upset because another OnePercenter is a taker, and laugh at the mindless twits (like you) that enable him.

 

[Asclepias]

He HAS been removed.. Officially anyways.. Along with the ENTIRE COMMUNITIES in that area.. Just give me your take on the WISDOM on that move.. To shut down 16 100yr old cattle ranches and the community associated with them? Was there a cause? What was it?

The other ranchers ARE INTIMATELY tied to this case. They were just stupid enough to pay the entity that now wants to shut down their 100 yrs of operation.. You are understanding that BLM wants that land VACANT AND UNUSED.. By ANYONE.. As far as we know. Because there are rumors that this is a first step to Harry Reid paying off some political debts.

I dont know the whole story on the reason why. To me thats not an issue. The ranchers are not entitled to graze on that land if they no longer have the grazing rights. Have you ever considered Bundy actually caused all of this by not paying his fees? All it takes is one bad apple to screw it up for everyone else.

Rumors about politics are behind most things like this. It may or may not be true but the point is that they simply do not have a legal right to continue grazing the land. If this land was owned by the ranchers then I would be concerned. As it is they don't have a leg to stand on. The ones that paid used the land so that was fair exchange. The free loader got off from paying but not for long.

Nice try Pappy.. Smooth move.. Suggesting that ONLY IF Bundy had written those checks, the Feds would have had the money to keep that area open to ranching operations.. That money went to pay for wars in Afghan/Iraq and Viagra for Fed employees. Just like the proceeds from the National Parks who have to BEG for funds even tho they are one of the few PROFITABLE operations of the Federal Govt.. (or could be).

So you dont think someone said even once "Hey this Bundy dude might convince the other ranchers to stop paying."?

 

[Asclepias]

He HAS been removed.. Officially anyways.. Along with the ENTIRE COMMUNITIES in that area.. Just give me your take on the WISDOM on that move.. To shut down 16 100yr old cattle ranches and the community associated with them? Was there a cause? What was it?

The other ranchers ARE INTIMATELY tied to this case. They were just stupid enough to pay the entity that now wants to shut down their 100 yrs of operation.. You are understanding that BLM wants that land VACANT AND UNUSED.. By ANYONE.. As far as we know. Because there are rumors that this is a first step to Harry Reid paying off some political debts.

I dont know the whole story on the reason why. To me thats not an issue. The ranchers are not entitled to graze on that land if they no longer have the grazing rights. Have you ever considered Bundy actually caused all of this by not paying his fees? All it takes is one bad apple to screw it up for everyone else.

Rumors about politics are behind most things like this. It may or may not be true but the point is that they simply do not have a legal right to continue grazing the land. If this land was owned by the ranchers then I would be concerned. As it is they don't have a leg to stand on. The ones that paid used the land so that was fair exchange. The free loader got off from paying but not for long.

Perhaps its is history Asclepias and what is going on as we speak? BLM is trying to take this guys 90 acres he owns and has always paid taxes on.

Oklahoma-Texas border dispute has ranchers worried



Oklahoma-Texas border dispute has ranchers worried



And then you have this guy, a federal judge said BLM was wrong and lambasted a conspiracy by the BLM.

Wayne Hage ( same thing as Bundy but this was over a plant not a turtle) and he was awarded millions because of BLM and the Forestry service.

Thus, multiplying 17,568.1 AF by $162.50, the Court finds that Plaintiffs are entitled to the
amount of $2,854,816.20 for the value of their water rights.

152.
Following this spirit, as well as the law and the evidence, the Court hereby finds that the
Government’s actions amount to a taking of Plaintiffs’ property with respect to their surface water rights and their 1866 Act ditches. The Court further finds that the Government dedicated Plaintiffs’ historical grazing lands to “another public purpose” for the purposes of 43 U.S.C. § 1752(g). Thus, Plaintiffs are hereby14 When the government takes an individual’s property, the owner “is entitled to interestthereon sufficient to insure that he is placed in as good of a position pecuniarily as he wouldhave occupied if the payment had coincided with the appropriation.” Kirby Forest Indus. Inc. v.United States, 467 U.S. 1, 10 (1984); see CCA Associates v. United States, 75 Fed. Cl. 170, 204(2007).18AWARDED $2,854,816,20 for the value of their water rights plus $1,365,615 for the value of their improvements, for a total award of $ 4,220,431.20, plus interest from the date of the taking14 and attorney’s fees and costs under the Uniform Relocation Act, 42 U.S.C. § 4654(c).

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/fedclaim/2008/911470lp.pdf

Perhaps Bundy sees this and knows of the above ruling and that is what is he acting on as well? IDK.

But as you see above BLM is trying to take lands owned and paid taxes on.

Right or wrong the 5th amendment allows for the government to take your land as long as they pay fair market value. I may be mistaken but in the cases the BLM handled it wrong and did not pay did they not lose in court and have to pay?

I think that is totally different from grazing on land you do not own and just deciding you are not going to pay. Bundy may have very well used those cases to drum up support for his illegal activity. I think that makes him a fraud in addition to being a free loader.

 

[Howey]

The Feds disappointed statists as they didn't get the bloodbath statists were hoping for. They will make up for it tho' next time liberty groups rise to an occasion.

It sounds like the militia group was the ones looking for a bloodbath. They made sure to put the women and children in front (unarmed) to be used as human shields.

Matter of fact, one of them was telling a news anchor that is what they planned, because they wanted people to see pictures of women and kids getting shot.

How very al Qaeda of them!

 

[Star]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

Not to change the subject but...

Are you a reptile hater, you're certainy not the environmentalist you claimed to be in past posts or-----or maybe you're just a bird lover. If you're a bird lover how-----how can you support Bundy et al, wiping out an endangered species of bird while complaining about bird kills by windmills?
.

 

[Synthaholic]

Go ahead. Just arrest every conservative who disagrees with a liberal agenda. Knock yourself out.

How about just the ones who break the law?

That would be a start.

 

[Synthaholic]

Cliven Bundy, the rancher whose cattle were rounded up and then released by the BLM over the weekend, claims that his family has used the land in question since 1880 but the Nevada Constitution pre-dates this by 16 years. When Nevada became a state in 1864, its citizens gave up all claims to unappropriated federal land and codified this in the state’s Constitution. The Nevada Constitution states:

“Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States; …..”

If Bundy “owns the land then where is the deed? Where are the records he paid property taxes?

It’s not his land.

Cliven Bundy Has No Claim to Federal Land and Grazing | The Wildlife News

Everything you need to know about the long fight between Cliven Bundy and the federal government

So what is the Fed Govt gonna DO with 80% of the State of Nevada.. Blow off more Nuclear ordinance?

Practice drone strikes on Desert Tortoises??

Irrelevant.

 

[flacaltenn]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

No one cares what the ranchers are angry about. It was not their land to be angry about in the first place. Sounds like a whole lot of entitlement going on. Words like slaughtering only provoke emotional responses. Whats really going on? Are they culling to prevent the spread of disease? Who knows and frankly why is that a reason for the free loader to continue free loading? Leaving an area vacant is not the same as leaving it unproductive. It may now be unproductive to a rancher but to an environmentalist it may be the best thing since sliced bread.

This is where you miss the whole point.. By buying the govt and media spin that the anger is because of the LAST HOLD-OUT.. The issue is arrogance and incompetence of management.. And you severely underestimate the situation and the anger. Slaughtering IS the correct word to use. Because I am an environmentalists and I have had turtles in the family for decades. I've FOLLOWED the REAL story. The government simply got tired of paying to refuge the tortoises.. They were not really interested in species rehab and they KNEW they didnt' need massive breeding stock.

DESERT TORTOISE: Conservation center prepares to close

DESERT TORTOISE: Conservation center prepares to close

AUGUST 30, 2013 BY JANET ZIMMERMAN
LAS VEGAS (AP) — News that hundreds of threatened desert tortoises face euthanasia with the pending closure of a refuge near Las Vegas has generated a storm of reaction that has government officials scrambling to find alternatives and fielding offers from people wishing to adopt the reptiles or make donations.

The Associated Press reported this week that the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center, which has sheltered thousands of displaced tortoises for 23 years, is scheduled to close in 2014 as funding runs out.
Desert tortoises have made their rocky homes in Utah, California, Arizona and Nevada for 200 million years. But the prehistoric animal has some unfortunate evolutionary quirks, including a susceptibility to flu-like respiratory infections and difficulties settling in to new homes. They are also sensitive to change as the tortoises sometimes dehydrate themselves by voiding a year’s worth of stored water when handled.

These weaknesses have combined with widespread habitat destruction in the quickly developing Southwest to dramatically reduce the tortoises’ numbers.

The Bureau of Land Management has partially funded the conservation center through fees imposed on developers who disturb tortoise habitat, but when the housing bubble burst several years ago, that funding dropped far below what was needed to run the center.

Yes, some are "sick" -- that term remaining undefined. But that was the PURPOSE of listing them as a critical specie and taking so many in for care.. The PROBLEM IS -- the Feds are not concerned about the turtles --- now are they????

 

[Dot Com]

Too bad we don't have debtor's prison anymore for deadbeats like that.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey stupid........................when was the last time that the U.S. exploded a nuclear weapon?

For that matter, do you know how much land is REALLY used for military purposes in NV? Got news for you, it's not that much.

That was their concept of land use.. And environmental stewardship.. Probably CONTRIBUTED to the demise of any desert tortoises for DECADES...

And by the way, the nuclear testing was done in New Mexico, not Nevada.

Surely you're joking right? The original couple of experimental tests were at the NM site. But the bulk of the 1000 nuclear explosions were in the Nevada Test site within earshot of Las Vegas and not far at all from where this latest news is playing out.. Howard Hughes used to go nuts everytime he felt the ground shake on the LV Strip..

Ground Zero for the home of the "threatened" Desert Tortoises...

 

[Katzndogz]

The media and statists want the story to be about the scofflaw Bundy.. But the ANGER is about the Federal Management plan that sets ALL OF THAT grazing potential off-limits.. And NONE of you statists want to defend that abitrary decision or the simultaneous SLAUGHTER of the very desert tortoises that they ALLEDGEDLY are trying to protect.. It's typical government incompetence and arrogance. Any you statists are neither environmentally conscious or understanding the charter of BLM management as it was intended.

They CLOSED that area to most uses.. Leaving it vacant and unproductive. Just as much arrogance as using the rest of Nevada for bombing practice and exploding Nuclear weapons.. WHO is actually interested LAND MGT here?

Not to change the subject but...

Are you a reptile hater, you're certainy not the environmentalist you claimed to be in past posts or-----or maybe you're just a bird lover. If you're a bird lover how-----how can you support Bundy et al, wiping out an endangered species of bird while complaining about bird kills by windmills?
.

Which bird was it that Bundy wiped out?

 

[Dot Com]

He should be chipped or have an ankle bracelet attached. He's a loose cannon.