Well are you?

[francoHFW]

I'll make the argument:

For one, a huge minimum wage increase would have a domino effect across the country. All wages would increase which means labor in the US would be much more expensive and cause more businesses to move overseas or make investments in automation to replace human beings. Because of the huge price increases, it would make online shopping more inviting which has an impact on mom and pop shops.

Next of course is it wouldn't solve anything. Only about 4% of our working population makes minimum wage. Therefore the only people we would most help are teenagers, college kids, and senior citizens who are just looking to keep busy during their retirement years.

Then there is the question if it would even help them. That's because even though they get a wage increase, everything they buy would be much more expensive as well. If I get a wage increase and now bring home $200.00 a month more than I did before, but my shopping bill for the month went up $200.00 a month more, how am I ahead?

I'm glad you are interested enough to discuss but disappointed in your lack of basic education on the topic.

A "huge" minimum wage increase can certainly have a domino effect on the country. Fortunately, nobody here is arguing for a "huge" minimum wage increase. My argument, from the beginning, has been an increase in minimum wage coupled with a reduction in welfare benefits. While this may end up increasing purchasing power for the impoverished slightly (which does have inflationary pressures on the economy), as the increase is more targeted to give them the ability to buy items for themselves rather than have the population at large buy them, the real goal is to only minimally increase their purchasing power, but make them more responsible for their purchases rather than having society at large responsible for a noted percent of their purchases. So, your first point is a straw man argument. That wasn't my argument. You actually never addressed my argument and then ran into a slippery slope about outsourcing.

Only 4% of the population makes minimum wage. I'm not sure about that number, but I won't argue it either. However, if you consider the population working low-wage, which is anybody making $7.26 up through a reasonable new floor for minimum wage (which you can argue about, which is why my numbers here vary so drastically), then the % of the population that that effect can be anything from 12%-26%. Also, you make a claim about a demographic based upon a simple percentage...there is no logical linkage between a number and a demographic. I'll help you however. According to the BLS in 2014, only ~5.4% of the minimum wage workers were 16-19, only ~4.3% were 65 or older. that means that (slightly) over 90% are...college kids...according to you. However, even that argument fails when you consider that ~18.4% HAVE A BACHELOR'S (or higher).

Finally, you question whether or not the wage increase would help them. Again, you need to actually READ the argument that you are countering. My contention was, is, and will be to help YOURSELF. As it stands these workers rely on varying degrees (for actual minimum wage workers, usually heavily) on government support. My point that we should increase minimum wages WHILE decreasing welfare benefits is not to aim a a large net "helping" for these workers...it is simply to place more of the burden of their living on their own back rather then mine...or yours.

Again, I'm simply shocked that anybody really has an issue with an increase in minimum wages coupled by a decrease in welfare benefits. It literally makes everybody happier and more well off (except maybe the corporations).

Why would corporations care? When you add financial burden to the companies, they just pass that burden onto us.

If you reduce government dependency, people will find a way to make more money. How many people do you know that work minimum wage and work over 40 hours a week? Not many.

As I pointed out earlier, take a look at what Maine did by creating requirements to get food stamps. Most of the people on the program dropped out! If they needed food stamps so badly, and decided they weren't going to work for them, how are they eating now????

But let me add a few things here I didn't have time to put in my other post: Minimum wage encourages people to better themselves. That's it in a nutshell.

For instance, I had a tenant that just moved out. She and her BF have been here six years. Both work fast food places. They always paid rent although late all the time, but they paid.

So why didn't they try to better themselves? Because they both smoke pot, and better paying jobs usually require drug testing.

It has always been my hope for them that they will see the errors of their ways, quit smoking dope, and try to advance themselves in life realizing low wage work just to smoke pot is not worth it.

So along comes some politicians and increase minimum wage. Such an increase would retard or hinder her decision to better herself as it would millions of people. This couple is in their mid 20's now, but it won't be long until they are in their mid 30's, then 40's. By the time they realize what a huge mistake they've made, it will be too late to get ahead in the game.

Glad your nemesis couple moved out. Maybe you can cut the hate and try real solutions now....Jeeebus were you ever young lol?

 

[francoHFW]

Obama economy: Welfare dependency peaks as rich get richer

Obama economy my ass. This is still Reagan's economy ie tax rates and policy. It's even the GOP's health plan lol. 8 more years of Dems might turn this ship around, if Pubs allow it...

 

[froggy]

are you better off now than you were eight years ago

Absolutely yes.

The Bush years ended with the destruction of the housing and financial sectors. We saw the greatest meltdown in our lives. Obama turned it around and has brought unemployment to lowest levels since Clinton.

Bush and the Republican Congress created the Patriot Act, which erected a Soviet style bureaucracy over the nation.

Trump is right. He destroyed the middle east and the economy. He had the nerve to shine a light on what the Republican Party did to this country - this is why the establishment hates him.

Our only hope is that President Trump does not repeat the mistakes of the last 3 Republican administrations. Reagan tripled the debt of Carter with a bloated Pentagon budget written largely by weapons contractors. Bush 43 doubled the debt of Clinton. Every Republican administration complains about Democratic spending, BUT THEN they always - and I mean always - increase spending. Indeed, Bush didn't veto a single piece of Republican Pork. Nobody spends like Big Government Conservatives.

The only people who believe that the economy has gotten worse since Bush are people who live completely inside talk radio and FOX News.

(Wow, just Wow)

Yeah, Fox news. You want to know what else Fox news told us? No President spent more than your precious Socialist President.

90% of which is to bail out Main St and help the victims of your corrupt GOP world depression. STILL 3-400 billion a year. Brainwashed functional MORON.

Right. Do you know what 90% of 9 trillion dollars is??

Buy yourself a calculator there Sparky. I'm sure it comes with instructions.

8.1 trillion duh. What's your idiotic point? Missing the forest for the trees. Most of O's deficit is from fixing W's mess DUH.

Obama economy: Welfare dependency peaks as rich get richer

Obama economy my ass. This is still Reagan's economy ie tax rates and policy. It's even the GOP's health plan lol. 8 more years of Dems might turn this ship around, if Pubs allow it...

You were just bragging that it was Obama's baby

 

[froggy]

How Much Will Obamacare Cost Me? Or Families.

 

[my2¢]

Si

 

[francoHFW]

Absolutely yes.

The Bush years ended with the destruction of the housing and financial sectors. We saw the greatest meltdown in our lives. Obama turned it around and has brought unemployment to lowest levels since Clinton.

Bush and the Republican Congress created the Patriot Act, which erected a Soviet style bureaucracy over the nation.

Trump is right. He destroyed the middle east and the economy. He had the nerve to shine a light on what the Republican Party did to this country - this is why the establishment hates him.

Our only hope is that President Trump does not repeat the mistakes of the last 3 Republican administrations. Reagan tripled the debt of Carter with a bloated Pentagon budget written largely by weapons contractors. Bush 43 doubled the debt of Clinton. Every Republican administration complains about Democratic spending, BUT THEN they always - and I mean always - increase spending. Indeed, Bush didn't veto a single piece of Republican Pork. Nobody spends like Big Government Conservatives.

The only people who believe that the economy has gotten worse since Bush are people who live completely inside talk radio and FOX News.

(Wow, just Wow)

Yeah, Fox news. You want to know what else Fox news told us? No President spent more than your precious Socialist President.

90% of which is to bail out Main St and help the victims of your corrupt GOP world depression. STILL 3-400 billion a year. Brainwashed functional MORON.

Right. Do you know what 90% of 9 trillion dollars is??

Buy yourself a calculator there Sparky. I'm sure it comes with instructions.

8.1 trillion duh. What's your idiotic point? Missing the forest for the trees. Most of O's deficit is from fixing W's mess DUH.

Obama economy: Welfare dependency peaks as rich get richer

Obama economy my ass. This is still Reagan's economy ie tax rates and policy. It's even the GOP's health plan lol. 8 more years of Dems might turn this ship around, if Pubs allow it...

You were just bragging that it was Obama's baby

If he were allowed to tax the rich more like their fair share and have a infrastructure/jobs bill and training program for 3 million tech jobs and a living wage, we'd be booming. We'll be lucky if Pub obstruction doesn't send us back to recession. The rest of their world already is...great job, party first Pubs!

 

[Never3ndr]

Why would corporations care? When you add financial burden to the companies, they just pass that burden onto us.

If you reduce government dependency, people will find a way to make more money. How many people do you know that work minimum wage and work over 40 hours a week? Not many.

As I pointed out earlier, take a look at what Maine did by creating requirements to get food stamps. Most of the people on the program dropped out! If they needed food stamps so badly, and decided they weren't going to work for them, how are they eating now????

But let me add a few things here I didn't have time to put in my other post: Minimum wage encourages people to better themselves. That's it in a nutshell.

For instance, I had a tenant that just moved out. She and her BF have been here six years. Both work fast food places. They always paid rent although late all the time, but they paid.

So why didn't they try to better themselves? Because they both smoke pot, and better paying jobs usually require drug testing.

It has always been my hope for them that they will see the errors of their ways, quit smoking dope, and try to advance themselves in life realizing low wage work just to smoke pot is not worth it.

So along comes some politicians and increase minimum wage. Such an increase would retard or hinder her decision to better herself as it would millions of people. This couple is in their mid 20's now, but it won't be long until they are in their mid 30's, then 40's. By the time they realize what a huge mistake they've made, it will be too late to get ahead in the game.

I'm not even sure if your apply is agreeing or disagreeing with me since you begin by saying that we need to reduce government dependency, which was half of my point. Then, you tell us about people who are making minimum wage, constantly delinquent on rent, and couldn't better their wages. So, the only way to decrease governmental dependency is to...raise the minimum wages while decreasing welfare benefits. Which is my point.

You also insert something about Maine's food stamp reform. Now there is a lot of debate about a lot of the stats around this, and, leaving that aside, let us both assume that their reform DID significantly decrease usage of food stamps. Exactly how does that prove that people didn't need it in the first place though? All your point proves is that a reform designed to decrease usage decreased usage. It doesn't say anything about whether or not the individuals now ineligible or not using the program still need the benefits or have turn to more illicit means to generate the income necessary to attain basic goods to survive.

Again, not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me here. I would just ask that, if you have a point, at the very least clarify it and then back it up with some logic rather than nonsense.

 

[froggy]

Yeah, Fox news. You want to know what else Fox news told us? No President spent more than your precious Socialist President.

90% of which is to bail out Main St and help the victims of your corrupt GOP world depression. STILL 3-400 billion a year. Brainwashed functional MORON.

Right. Do you know what 90% of 9 trillion dollars is??

Buy yourself a calculator there Sparky. I'm sure it comes with instructions.

8.1 trillion duh. What's your idiotic point? Missing the forest for the trees. Most of O's deficit is from fixing W's mess DUH.

Obama economy: Welfare dependency peaks as rich get richer

Obama economy my ass. This is still Reagan's economy ie tax rates and policy. It's even the GOP's health plan lol. 8 more years of Dems might turn this ship around, if Pubs allow it...

You were just bragging that it was Obama's baby

If he were allowed to tax the rich more like their fair share and have a infrastructure/jobs bill and training program for 3 million tech jobs and a living wage, we'd be booming. We'll be lucky if Pub obstruction doesn't send us back to recession. The rest of their world already is...great job, party first Pubs!

why didn't Obama do that

 

[percysunshine]

are you better off now than you were eight years ago

.
The children are beyond diapers...so we have that going for us.

 

[francoHFW]

90% of which is to bail out Main St and help the victims of your corrupt GOP world depression. STILL 3-400 billion a year. Brainwashed functional MORON.

Right. Do you know what 90% of 9 trillion dollars is??

Buy yourself a calculator there Sparky. I'm sure it comes with instructions.

8.1 trillion duh. What's your idiotic point? Missing the forest for the trees. Most of O's deficit is from fixing W's mess DUH.

Obama economy: Welfare dependency peaks as rich get richer

Obama economy my ass. This is still Reagan's economy ie tax rates and policy. It's even the GOP's health plan lol. 8 more years of Dems might turn this ship around, if Pubs allow it...

You were just bragging that it was Obama's baby

If he were allowed to tax the rich more like their fair share and have a infrastructure/jobs bill and training program for 3 million tech jobs and a living wage, we'd be booming. We'll be lucky if Pub obstruction doesn't send us back to recession. The rest of their world already is...great job, party first Pubs!

why didn't Obama do that

Total, mindless Pub obstruction- He only had control of congress for 24 working days, in the middle of a Pub depression.

 

[froggy]

Right. Do you know what 90% of 9 trillion dollars is??

Buy yourself a calculator there Sparky. I'm sure it comes with instructions.

8.1 trillion duh. What's your idiotic point? Missing the forest for the trees. Most of O's deficit is from fixing W's mess DUH.

Obama economy: Welfare dependency peaks as rich get richer

Obama economy my ass. This is still Reagan's economy ie tax rates and policy. It's even the GOP's health plan lol. 8 more years of Dems might turn this ship around, if Pubs allow it...

You were just bragging that it was Obama's baby

If he were allowed to tax the rich more like their fair share and have a infrastructure/jobs bill and training program for 3 million tech jobs and a living wage, we'd be booming. We'll be lucky if Pub obstruction doesn't send us back to recession. The rest of their world already is...great job, party first Pubs!

why didn't Obama do that

Total, mindless Pub obstruction- He only had control of congress for 24 working days, in the middle of a Pub depression.

He's like every other politician we've had. Done nothing but mess up everything he got into. Get rid of all politicians

 

[francoHFW]

8.1 trillion duh. What's your idiotic point? Missing the forest for the trees. Most of O's deficit is from fixing W's mess DUH.

Obama economy my ass. This is still Reagan's economy ie tax rates and policy. It's even the GOP's health plan lol. 8 more years of Dems might turn this ship around, if Pubs allow it...

You were just bragging that it was Obama's baby

If he were allowed to tax the rich more like their fair share and have a infrastructure/jobs bill and training program for 3 million tech jobs and a living wage, we'd be booming. We'll be lucky if Pub obstruction doesn't send us back to recession. The rest of their world already is...great job, party first Pubs!

why didn't Obama do that

Total, mindless Pub obstruction- He only had control of congress for 24 working days, in the middle of a Pub depression.

He's like every other politician we've had. Done nothing but mess up everything he got into. Get rid of all politicians

So when Pubs lie and say he had total control for 2 years while they filibustered him 200 times, that's fine? You are duped. Get rid of lying, bought off politicians. IE, Pubs.

 

[froggy]

You were just bragging that it was Obama's baby

If he were allowed to tax the rich more like their fair share and have a infrastructure/jobs bill and training program for 3 million tech jobs and a living wage, we'd be booming. We'll be lucky if Pub obstruction doesn't send us back to recession. The rest of their world already is...great job, party first Pubs!

why didn't Obama do that

Total, mindless Pub obstruction- He only had control of congress for 24 working days, in the middle of a Pub depression.

He's like every other politician we've had. Done nothing but mess up everything he got into. Get rid of all politicians

So when Pubs lie and say he had total control for 2 years while they filibustered him 200 times, that's fine? You are duped. Get rid of lying, bought off politicians. IE, Pubs.

They're all the same worthless. If Trump get and does good the day of the politicians may be numbered

 

[francoHFW]

If he were allowed to tax the rich more like their fair share and have a infrastructure/jobs bill and training program for 3 million tech jobs and a living wage, we'd be booming. We'll be lucky if Pub obstruction doesn't send us back to recession. The rest of their world already is...great job, party first Pubs!

why didn't Obama do that

Total, mindless Pub obstruction- He only had control of congress for 24 working days, in the middle of a Pub depression.

He's like every other politician we've had. Done nothing but mess up everything he got into. Get rid of all politicians

So when Pubs lie and say he had total control for 2 years while they filibustered him 200 times, that's fine? You are duped. Get rid of lying, bought off politicians. IE, Pubs.

They're all the same worthless. If Trump get and does good the day of the politicians may be numbered

I'm afraid you're misinformed. He is better than the other GOPers. Not bought or socially nuts...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

why didn't Obama do that

Total, mindless Pub obstruction- He only had control of congress for 24 working days, in the middle of a Pub depression.

He's like every other politician we've had. Done nothing but mess up everything he got into. Get rid of all politicians

So when Pubs lie and say he had total control for 2 years while they filibustered him 200 times, that's fine? You are duped. Get rid of lying, bought off politicians. IE, Pubs.

They're all the same worthless. If Trump get and does good the day of the politicians may be numbered

I'm afraid you're misinformed. He is better than the other GOPers. Not bought or socially nuts...

You mean like Hillary?

 

[initforme]

Yep. I'm better off. Retired. Don't miss work one iota...did my stint in the ugly rat race. Drinking my foreign beer, travelling, but I surely don't refer to it an the american dream. America has nothing to do with it. I do.

 

[francoHFW]

Total, mindless Pub obstruction- He only had control of congress for 24 working days, in the middle of a Pub depression.

He's like every other politician we've had. Done nothing but mess up everything he got into. Get rid of all politicians

So when Pubs lie and say he had total control for 2 years while they filibustered him 200 times, that's fine? You are duped. Get rid of lying, bought off politicians. IE, Pubs.

They're all the same worthless. If Trump get and does good the day of the politicians may be numbered

I'm afraid you're misinformed. He is better than the other GOPers. Not bought or socially nuts...

You mean like Hillary?

No.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why would corporations care? When you add financial burden to the companies, they just pass that burden onto us.

If you reduce government dependency, people will find a way to make more money. How many people do you know that work minimum wage and work over 40 hours a week? Not many.

As I pointed out earlier, take a look at what Maine did by creating requirements to get food stamps. Most of the people on the program dropped out! If they needed food stamps so badly, and decided they weren't going to work for them, how are they eating now????

But let me add a few things here I didn't have time to put in my other post: Minimum wage encourages people to better themselves. That's it in a nutshell.

For instance, I had a tenant that just moved out. She and her BF have been here six years. Both work fast food places. They always paid rent although late all the time, but they paid.

So why didn't they try to better themselves? Because they both smoke pot, and better paying jobs usually require drug testing.

It has always been my hope for them that they will see the errors of their ways, quit smoking dope, and try to advance themselves in life realizing low wage work just to smoke pot is not worth it.

So along comes some politicians and increase minimum wage. Such an increase would retard or hinder her decision to better herself as it would millions of people. This couple is in their mid 20's now, but it won't be long until they are in their mid 30's, then 40's. By the time they realize what a huge mistake they've made, it will be too late to get ahead in the game.

I'm not even sure if your apply is agreeing or disagreeing with me since you begin by saying that we need to reduce government dependency, which was half of my point. Then, you tell us about people who are making minimum wage, constantly delinquent on rent, and couldn't better their wages. So, the only way to decrease governmental dependency is to...raise the minimum wages while decreasing welfare benefits. Which is my point.

You also insert something about Maine's food stamp reform. Now there is a lot of debate about a lot of the stats around this, and, leaving that aside, let us both assume that their reform DID significantly decrease usage of food stamps. Exactly how does that prove that people didn't need it in the first place though? All your point proves is that a reform designed to decrease usage decreased usage. It doesn't say anything about whether or not the individuals now ineligible or not using the program still need the benefits or have turn to more illicit means to generate the income necessary to attain basic goods to survive.

Again, not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me here. I would just ask that, if you have a point, at the very least clarify it and then back it up with some logic rather than nonsense.

I think my point is extremely clear, and I agree and disagree with you which is why it might be confusing. Perhaps I should explain who I am.

I'm a person that wants as much government out of our lives as possible. I don't believe in government micromanaging our lives and I don't believe the federal government has a role in making our lives better. I believe we as individuals should make our own lives better. Governments role is to govern--that's it.

I don't believe in robbing Peter to pay Paul. If you have that as a policy, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.

More to the point: I agree with cutting social programs to the bone. That is to say, only those that have absolutely no choice but to survive on them. I believe that anybody physically and mentally capable of working should not be living on my tax dollar or yours. If you make lower wages, then work more hours. If you don't like the wages you bring in, make yourself worth more money--minimum wage increases are not the solution.

If you make a mistake in life such as having children before you can reasonably afford them or getting yourself into so much credit debt it seems impossible to pay back should not be my problem. You created the problem--you find the solution to your problem.

Now as for Maine: the requirements to continue on food stamps are one of three things: have a part-time job working at least 20 hours per week; be enrolled in a vocational program; or do volunteer work for 24 hours per month. That's it.

Most of the abusers of this program didn't want to do any of those things, so they opted to drop out. This is a shockwave to liberals who constantly tell us how people are starving in this country and cutting food stamps means putting more water in the soup. I call BS. I see what these SNAPs people are buying at the grocery store.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Absolutely yes.

The Bush years ended with the destruction of the housing and financial sectors. We saw the greatest meltdown in our lives. Obama turned it around and has brought unemployment to lowest levels since Clinton.

Bush and the Republican Congress created the Patriot Act, which erected a Soviet style bureaucracy over the nation.

Trump is right. He destroyed the middle east and the economy. He had the nerve to shine a light on what the Republican Party did to this country - this is why the establishment hates him.

Our only hope is that President Trump does not repeat the mistakes of the last 3 Republican administrations. Reagan tripled the debt of Carter with a bloated Pentagon budget written largely by weapons contractors. Bush 43 doubled the debt of Clinton. Every Republican administration complains about Democratic spending, BUT THEN they always - and I mean always - increase spending. Indeed, Bush didn't veto a single piece of Republican Pork. Nobody spends like Big Government Conservatives.

The only people who believe that the economy has gotten worse since Bush are people who live completely inside talk radio and FOX News.

(Wow, just Wow)

Yeah, Fox news. You want to know what else Fox news told us? No President spent more than your precious Socialist President.

90% of which is to bail out Main St and help the victims of your corrupt GOP world depression. STILL 3-400 billion a year. Brainwashed functional MORON.

Right. Do you know what 90% of 9 trillion dollars is??

Buy yourself a calculator there Sparky. I'm sure it comes with instructions.

8.1 trillion duh. What's your idiotic point? Missing the forest for the trees. Most of O's deficit is from fixing W's mess DUH.

Obama economy: Welfare dependency peaks as rich get richer

Obama economy my ass. This is still Reagan's economy ie tax rates and policy. It's even the GOP's health plan lol. 8 more years of Dems might turn this ship around, if Pubs allow it...

You were just bragging that it was Obama's baby

Correct, only when there are good things to report. When there are bad things to report, it's the Republican's fault all the way back to Reagan. See how the liberal mind works???? Neither do I.........

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

are you better off now than you were eight years ago

Absolutely yes.

The Bush years ended with the destruction of the housing and financial sectors. We saw the greatest meltdown in our lives. Obama turned it around and has brought unemployment to lowest levels since Clinton.

Bush and the Republican Congress created the Patriot Act, which erected a Soviet style bureaucracy over the nation.

Trump is right. He destroyed the middle east and the economy. He had the nerve to shine a light on what the Republican Party did to this country - this is why the establishment hates him.

Our only hope is that President Trump does not repeat the mistakes of the last 3 Republican administrations. Reagan tripled the debt of Carter with a bloated Pentagon budget written largely by weapons contractors. Bush 43 doubled the debt of Clinton. Every Republican administration complains about Democratic spending, BUT THEN they always - and I mean always - increase spending. Indeed, Bush didn't veto a single piece of Republican Pork. Nobody spends like Big Government Conservatives.

The only people who believe that the economy has gotten worse since Bush are people who live completely inside talk radio and FOX News.

(Wow, just Wow)

Yeah, Fox news. You want to know what else Fox news told us? No President spent more than your precious Socialist President.

90% of which is to bail out Main St and help the victims of your corrupt GOP world depression. STILL 3-400 billion a year. Brainwashed functional MORON.

Right. Do you know what 90% of 9 trillion dollars is??

Buy yourself a calculator there Sparky. I'm sure it comes with instructions.

8.1 trillion duh. What's your idiotic point? Missing the forest for the trees. Most of O's deficit is from fixing W's mess DUH.

Of course it is. It's never the Democrats fault. It's like I've always said, the best part of being a Democrat is never having to say you were wrong.