CDZ What do American Muslims want?

[Pogo]

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. (United States ).
France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — Muslim 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago — Muslim 5.8%

The Imaginarium is a fertile field, but I lived in one of these countries (France) and saw any of this happen exactly Zero times.

And I was hanging out with Muslims the entire time -- that is, I was hanging out with citizens of Algeria and Egypt and Sudan and Morocco and Tunisia and occasionally Guinea, Tanzania, Nigeria etc etc, so presumably they would have been predominantly Muslim. Nobody ever really brought up religion, but they did teach me some Arabic, which was fun.

But again, I'm speaking from real world experience, not the Imaginarium.

Imagine that --- people, like anyone else. Who knew.

Yanno what --- I already laid this out, and it made zero impact on those committed to the religion of

 

[Syriusly]

The points I'd like to look at are:

What do Muslims in AMERICA want?
Are they any different than other religious groups in America?
What does this say about Muslim immigration in America vs other countries?

1. Geography is not germane. Muslims in America want the same thing as Muslims elsewhere want. They read the same Quran. They want slow painful deaths to infidels.

Apparently you didn't bother to read what Coyote posted- geography is germane. Muslims in America don't want the same thing as Muslims elsewhere want.

I have never- EVER- met a Muslim American who wants 'slow painful deaths to infidels'.

But I have heard a lot of crap from scared American bigots who spew crap on the internet.

 

[Syriusly]

. A few will give the appearance and temperance of fitting in. A few million tell you where you fit in with their plan for peace and how it is to be achieved.

Yeah- no more than the same kind of crap bigots used to say about the Chinese and the Jews and Catholics and Italians.

Just more bigoted crap- just a different target group.

 

[saveliberty]

Not sure of the relevance here?

Me either, but you were very intent on using percentages, so I thought, let's at least use the right ones.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Really. Imagine if you will, an America without nearly 1 terror attack per year because we refuse to give the enemy the opportunity. It's easy to make light of the frequency of the attacks on us, if you have not been one of the ones burying their loved ones after an attack.

One attack is too many for me. Imagine an America with NO muslim invasion:

 

[saveliberty]

So...if we are going by percentages of religious good. What percentage of religious based terrorists attacks are Muslim?

Percentage wise, they seem more interested in one more than the other,

Well, first of all you are looking at a very rare incident to begin with (in the US) - so "percentages", taken out of that context, would be misleading wouldn't it?

But let's look at it...according to this source (I don't much like Newsmax, but for the sake of an example it will do) - there have been 13 Islamic terror attacks on US soil since 9/11 - that is 13 in 15 years, or less then 1 per year.

There is no conceivable way to research or even figure out a way to meaningfully measure all the charitable activities of Islamic groups, Mosques and individuals but I imagine it is far far greater than one event a year.

Do you really think, percentagewise, American Muslims are more interested in one than in the other? Really?

So you failed in using percentages to make a case, so now we switch to actual incidents? My case was unstated but straightforward. What are Muslims here for? Well, we have a greater percentage of terrorist attacks per religious group than percent of charitable work. Percentages are handy it maximize or minimize a particular view point. As such they are meaningless in many situations. Perhaps you wish to withdraw those posts?

 

[The Irish Ram]

. A few will give the appearance and temperance of fitting in. A few million tell you where you fit in with their plan for peace and how it is to be achieved.

Yeah- no more than the same kind of crap bigots used to say about the Chinese and the Jews and Catholics and Italians.

Just more bigoted crap- just a different target group.

That's just more crap period. Show me the carnage of the the Italians, Jews, Catholics, and Chinese immigrants upon arriving here.....

Here is the difference. Those immigrants couldn't wait to become Americans, not bombers in America.

 

[pillars]

What do muslims in America want?

Muslims in America: In their own words

Interviews are interesting, as well.

This Is Our Islam: To Be Young, Devout And Muslim In America Today - also interesting.

 

[Pogo]

Really. Imagine if you will, an America without nearly 1 terror attack per year because we refuse to give the enemy the opportunity. It's easy to make light of the frequency of the attacks on us, if you have not been one of the ones burying their loved ones after an attack.

One attack is too many for me. Imagine an America with NO muslim invasion:

Wanna see how this fallacy works?

"Imagine an America with no Christian invasion"............

​

Yeah yeah yeah I know, "when we do it they're not real Christians, when they do it they are real Muslims", lather rinse repeat.

Having it both ways: Priceless.

 

[Mudda]

Maybe the reason it's so easy for everyone to confuse terrorism with Islam is that Islam is a theocratic faith. So anytime Islamic terrorists who are attempting to lead others start engaging in warfare, we blame it on the religion instead of on the politics and the leaders. Do we blame the North Korean dictator's actions on his religion? No. His religion is not in a 'ruling' position in North Korea.
What I'm trying to say is, it is the leaders and the politics that are causing the terrorism, for the exact same reasons that every group and nation has started wars--wish for resources, power, etc. It is not Islam which drives terrorism, although is is being justified as a 'holy war' by their leaders . As has been pointed out here, if you dig into the Koran, you will find places that justify violence and abhorrent practices, but the Old Testament has plenty of those, as well, if you hunt for them.

You're wrong, it's not just the leader causing terrorism, as leaders never highjack the airplane, blow up their shoes or underwear, or attack Westerners, it's the regular Muslim Joe who does that.

You don't believe those Muslim Joes are acting as soldiers for their leaders who inspired them? I do.

You can't simply order someone to blow themselves up, they really, really have to want to.

 

[jillian]

It all depends on the Muslim, some want to assimilate and others, the radical ones, want to impose their beliefs and law. Same as with any other group

Agree, all groups have their lunatic fringe.

except your lunatic fringe likes putting on belly bombs. *shrug*

no. they don't reflect the majority... but like the rabid lunatic Christian theocrat fringe, they don't much care what the vast majority of people want.

 

[Mudda]

"51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S."

51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S.

And don't forget to add all the liars to the 51%, and all the people too afraid to say it to a census person... And the question "would you mind if the US was sharia?" wasn't asked, which would have added a whole bunch of Islamists.

That's the same "poll" who's methodology has been widely descredited: Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslim immigrants is based on a very shoddy poll

Trump cites shaky survey in call to ban Muslims from entering US

That's why I tend to use Pew - they're reputable, and I haven't heard complaints from either the left or the right.

I don't know why you're trying to associate me with that lunatic, maybe because that's all you have for a comeback is a smear?
60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam, and if you add in the ones who wouldn't say so because of a job...? That makes easily 2/3 of young Muslims who prefer sharia.

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

No. She's one of those people that likes "proof" to be credible.

She has no proof.

 

[Mudda]

The OP carefully presented the facts, which are that American Muslims have different views than Muslims elsewhere. American Muslims are more similar to other Americans than different. The majority do not support principles embedded in Sharia law.
How do you continue to repeat the same hate filled propaganda with no consideration for the truth?

In that case there must be two different Qurans. One must have replaced the creed that peace is achieved by killing the infidels, with live and let live.
So where are these Muslims that want to be just like the great Satan? Why is there even a discussion of banning Sharia Law in America, since the majority don't support it, and where did you dream up this great divide between Muslims that want to remain true to their faith, and those reject it for apple pie and mom?

What does "being true to their faith" mean exactly? The Quran is full of passages that extol violence and full of passages that extol peace and tolerance. The Bible is is full of passages that extol violence and full of passages that extol peace and tolerance. Both are the religious books for a major world faith.

Given that, why is a different standard being applied to Muslims, the Quran, and Islam then is applied to Christians, the Bible, and Christianity or Jews, the OT and Judaism?

Is a Christian, that refuses to follow the biblical mandates calling for killing, stoning or exterminating unbelievers untrue to their faith?

Of course not.

What you are saying is American Muslims (only) can't possibly be true to their faith if they embrace a more peaceful understanding of it?

Muslims around the world including in the US are starting to lean more and more on the violent parts of Islam.

 

[pillars]

I think I've figured out why conservatives are so anti-Muslim: Muslims in America: voters share views on the US presidential candidates

In 2008, 89% of US Muslims voted for Democrat Barack Obama, according to a poll by the Council on American-Islamic Relations. In a 2011 survey by the Pew Research Center, some 48% of Muslims living in America said they felt the Republican party was unfriendly towards them. Just 7% said the same of the Democratic party.

 

[pillars]

She has no proof.

You made the claim, it is your responsibility to support it with proof. The "proof" you provided is clearly spurious.

 

[Mudda]

She has no proof.

You made the claim, it is your responsibility to support it with proof. The "proof" you provided is clearly spurious.

I did, she simply dismissed it out of hand for some trivial reason.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Really. Imagine if you will, an America without nearly 1 terror attack per year because we refuse to give the enemy the opportunity. It's easy to make light of the frequency of the attacks on us, if you have not been one of the ones burying their loved ones after an attack.

One attack is too many for me. Imagine an America with NO muslim invasion:

Wanna see how this fallacy works?

"Imagine an America with no Christian invasion"............

​

Yeah yeah yeah I know, "when we do it they're not real Christians, when they do it they are real Muslims", lather rinse repeat.

Having it both ways: Priceless.

If this is a war of religious attrition, the Christians will lose badly:

 

[saveliberty]

What do muslims in America want?

Muslims in America: In their own words

Interviews are interesting, as well.

This Is Our Islam: To Be Young, Devout And Muslim In America Today - also interesting.

On how ISIS thrives on ignorance and lack of critical thinking

ISIS is not doing these things just nilly-willy. They're very methodic. So as a Muslim if you go and you try to refute them, you're likely going to fail, because they'll be quoting scripture, sayings of the Prophet, historical events from early Islam. And most Muslims don't have that. They're not equipped with the proper knowledge, and so ISIS thrives on our own ignorance and our lack of critical thinking.

On the growth in both extremism and atheism

On one extreme, you have the yahoos, right? And they're going to go and be attracted by that rhetoric. Then on the other side you have the regular Muslims, and they're just, maybe they're not feeling it anymore. I mean, I know, personally, I get emails all the time, people doubting their faith. People who come to me now and say that they're atheist.

On how Muslims need to make religious literacy a top priority

I had somebody tell me they were basically going to walk out of Islam. I said, "Before you distance yourself, just give me a few weeks." Before we throw the baby out with the bathwater, I think we all need to kinda take a step back and rehash our own understanding.

I hear her saying she needs to understand her religion better. That may be a good answer for what Muslims in America want.

 

[Arianrhod]

Serious question for those who can't distinguish ISIS from Islam: What is the difference between 0.000019375 and 1?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I think I've figured out why conservatives are so anti-Muslim: Muslims in America: voters share views on the US presidential candidates

In 2008, 89% of US Muslims voted for Democrat Barack Obama, according to a poll by the Council on American-Islamic Relations. In a 2011 survey by the Pew Research Center, some 48% of Muslims living in America said they felt the Republican party was unfriendly towards them. Just 7% said the same of the Democratic party.

I am almost positive that blowing us up has a bigger impact on us than their voting booth preferences.

Do you suppose that voting is the reason that the countries in Europe have taken to the streets to stop the carnage to their countries? Are no groping signs at the kiddie pool the result of distaste for the Muslims choice of candidates? I am anti-Muslim because they slaughter children, behead people, tie them up and drop them into acid, fill pressure cookers with projectiles, fly planes into buildings, blow planes out of the sky, murder hundreds at sporting events, blow up trains, electrocute people, set them on fire, kidnap and sell children into slavery......
And no Christians are not doing the same thing worldwide, even though it is being done to them.