Zone1 What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

[Clyde 154]

the sin is yours clyde, no one that has an inkling for the events of the 1st century, liberation theology, self determination the cause jesus lived and died for would be so confused as to believe what was written about them by the crucifiers as having any merit whatsoever - the state religion of the roman empire. than to placate their own crimes and misbehavior.

as before - provide the tablets claimed by the desert religions to have been etched in the heavens w/ 10 commandments or remove the errant assertion from their documents and all other forgeries and fallacies strewn throughout their scripts residing on nearly every page of their various publications.

More Ad Hominem BS? You have me confused with the Catholics false doctrines that are propagated by men, not scripture. Sola Scriptura.......look it up.

The Bible provides the Prima Facie evidence of the 10 commandments. What evidence do you have the Stones did not exist? None. This is same ole story........you attempt to have the mule push the plow. You accuse but have no evidence to prosecute. Find the book, chapter and verse that identifies the Roman Church. There is but ONE CHURCH and ONE identity of that ONE CHURCH (Eph. 4:4-6, Romans 10:17).......its located in the Holy Scriptures.

True Christian doctrine does not exist outside the content of the Holy Scriptures. Anyone that tells you they are speaking to God and God hears them and speaks back..... are either mentally unstable or lying. The age of miracles ceased when the last Apostle breathed his last breath (1 Cor. 13)

Hear that whistling sound? That's just the wind passing between your ears, it amounts to all the evidence you have produced.

 

[toobfreak]

What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

He meant for his Father to forgive humanity, for they know not what they do, and only know the material body and do not understand the spirit.

 

[norwegen]

Jesus had a lot of followers who believed that he was going to begin an uprising against Roman occupation of Israel.

The Romans believed he was doing that as well. In fact that is why the Romans persecuted christians for so long after Jesus Christian because they believed that the Christian religion was a disguised rebellion.

Usually Romans allowed you to worship whatever gods you want it and they just adopted your gods into their religion. Christians were specifically persecuted for their religious beliefs Because they believed it was not a religion at all but a rebellion started by Jesus.

When Jesus was hanging on the tree, none of this was happening. Can you find anything in the New Testament to substantiate this?

The only ones who saw Jesus as a threat were the Jews.

 

[nomadic5]

He meant for his Father to forgive humanity, for they know not what they do, and only know the material body and do not understand the spirit.

or maybe the understand all too well one spirit, the spirit of Satan. We all seem to get that one. It comes naturally. That's why Jesus had to do such an extreme-looking thing to save us. I guess some call it the human condition. Whatever it is, it's butt ugly

 

[ding]

or maybe the understand all too well one spirit, the spirit of Satan. We all seem to get that one. It comes naturally. That's why Jesus had to do such an extreme-looking thing to save us. I guess some call it the human condition. Whatever it is, it's butt ugly

I've yet to see anyone do evil for the sake of evil. People do evil for the sake of their own good. Evil isn't extant. Evil only exists as the negation of good. It's like darkness and cold, they don't exist either; only light and heat exist. Everything God made is good.

 

[toobfreak]

or maybe the understand all too well one spirit

There is only one spirit. Spirit is Spirit. The Spirit is God to which we are all part and parcel to. The Spirit is even in Satan, remember he was once an Angel, but fell out of God's graces by allowing his desire for the flesh to take control of him over his Inner Pilot.

 

[dudmuck]

More Ad Hominem BS? You have me confused with the Catholics false doctrines that are propagated by men, not scripture. Sola Scriptura.......look it up.

The Bible provides the Prima Facie evidence of the 10 commandments. What evidence do you have the Stones did not exist? None. This is same ole story........you attempt to have the mule push the plow. You accuse but have no evidence to prosecute. Find the book, chapter and verse that identifies the Roman Church. There is but ONE CHURCH and ONE identity of that ONE CHURCH (Eph. 4:4-6, Romans 10:17).......its located in the Holy Scriptures.

True Christian doctrine does not exist outside the content of the Holy Scriptures. Anyone that tells you they are speaking to God and God hears them and speaks back..... are either mentally unstable or lying. The age of miracles ceased when the last Apostle breathed his last breath (1 Cor. 13)

Hear that whistling sound? That's just the wind passing between your ears, it amounts to all the evidence you have produced.

the copyists errors make the whole bible a product of men.

 

[BreezeWood]

More Ad Hominem BS? You have me confused with the Catholics false doctrines that are propagated by men, not scripture. Sola Scriptura.......look it up.

The Bible provides the Prima Facie evidence of the 10 commandments. What evidence do you have the Stones did not exist? None. This is same ole story........you attempt to have the mule push the plow. You accuse but have no evidence to prosecute. Find the book, chapter and verse that identifies the Roman Church. There is but ONE CHURCH and ONE identity of that ONE CHURCH (Eph. 4:4-6, Romans 10:17).......its located in the Holy Scriptures.

True Christian doctrine does not exist outside the content of the Holy Scriptures. Anyone that tells you they are speaking to God and God hears them and speaks back..... are either mentally unstable or lying. The age of miracles ceased when the last Apostle breathed his last breath (1 Cor. 13)

Hear that whistling sound? That's just the wind passing between your ears, it amounts to all the evidence you have produced.

as before - provide the tablets claimed by the desert religions to have been etched in the heavens w/ 10 commandments or remove the errant assertion from their documents and all other forgeries and fallacies strewn throughout their scripts residing on nearly every page of their various publications.

they never existed and you either know that and are self diluting the importance for your own scurrilous reasons or are just a liar, their presence for verification what is the content of the desert documents to prove their assertion ...

they are the work of a jealous murderer who cratered when they were not the subject being worship when returning from the mountain - and have been used by crucifiers throughout the centuries to persecute and victimize the innocent - clyde.

 

[Clyde 154]

the copyists errors make the whole bible a product of men.

The Bible simply presents the Laws established by God........Laws simply identify righteousness and evil, no law can make a man act, sins are committed by Men due to free will decisions.

There is no claim that the Bible is anything other than recorded by MEN. There were at least 40 different authors who were inspired to pen the 39 books of the O.T. and 27 in the N.T. Errors are entirely due to men's mistake in transcribing. One error or errant recording produced in a single passage of scripture does not take away from the subject matter or truth when the entire content and context is maintained.

The passages of scripture that are recorded correctly actually make it easy to point out the typographical errors. Men make mistakes (God does not.....especially when they have to transcribe on cheap paper by hand and by candlelight. The Bible claims that all scripture is "INSPIRED OF GOD"......not written by God. The scriptures interpret themselves when they are allowed, just as Peter pointed out, (2 Peter 1:20)


The Bible states that "Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." -- 2 Peter 1:20-21 The Greek word for inspired literally means, "God Breathed" meaning the words recorded in the Bible were breathed by God into the minds/spirit of men who recorded the Books of the Bible.......for future generations as well as their own (2 Peter 1:15-17)

The Bible is simply a recorded history of the Judeo/Christian faith.......the entire O.T. is today used as our Schoolmaster in teaching us not to make the same mistakes historically made by the Jews who were continually sinning against God (Jer.31:31-34, Gal. 3:24, Romans 15:4). Simply because a truthful history is recorded in scripture does not mean that God condoned all that was recorded........the Bible contains a true history, the good, the bad and the ugly. Its a record of the human condition and how men sin and fall from grace and repent or turn away from their sinful nature. The Bible is full of men.......righteous men who face the same challenges we face today and have fallen into temptation and sinned. Even the Heroes of the Bible sin..........Abraham for instance........was drunk and slept with his own daughter......Moses at first refused to obey God with excuse after excuse.......David sinned, he was an adulterer.......Peter the Apostle denied the Christ 3 times before the cock crowed. So no its not all grins and giggles with a favorable history painted in shades of pastel colors. Its simply TRUTH.


And its TRUTH that sets one free......(John 8:32), Truth is the most important element to Christianity....we are commanded to worship in spirit and truth (John 4:24). When asked by Pilate, What is Truth? Jesus answered, "........for this cause I came into the world (to deliver truth from heaven), that I should bear witness to the truth, everyone that is of the truth.........Heareth My Voice." -- John 18:37-38

 

[BreezeWood]

I've yet to see anyone do evil for the sake of evil. People do evil for the sake of their own good. Evil isn't extant. Evil only exists as the negation of good. It's like darkness and cold, they don't exist either; only light and heat exist. Everything God made is good.

you're a joke, religious fanatics ...

are only to eager to have their way however that is accomplished among other types - you seriously have no idea what you are talking about - and is a poor excuse for your comments.

 

[Red Front]

Pretty obvious what it means. They were crucifying the archangel and king of Israel and didn't know that or the implications of doing that.

 

[nomadic5]

Pretty obvious what it means. They were crucifying the archangel and king of Israel and didn't know that or the implications of doing that.

just like when liberals sin by promoting baby murder. They don't know what they're doing?

Well, maybe Jesus wasn't talking to people who know what they are doing and do it anyway. I'd say God doesn't look too kindly on that (to say the least)

 

[nomadic5]

you're a joke, religious fanatics ...

View attachment 761938

are only to eager to have their way however that is accomplished among other types - you seriously have no idea what you are talking about - and is a poor excuse for your comments.

You are incredibly ignorant

I can tell by your posts. I am starting to not bother reading them. It's a waste of time. You have been lied to about Catholics and you have chosen to believe the lies and have closed your ears to the truth.

I can't help someone like that.

 

[nomadic5]

There is only one spirit. Spirit is Spirit. The Spirit is God to which we are all part and parcel to. The Spirit is even in Satan, remember he was once an Angel, but fell out of God's graces by allowing his desire for the flesh to take control of him over his Inner Pilot.

I don't think the Spirit of God is in Satan! I could be wrong. Who knows about this besides God himself?

Satan is spirit because he has no body.

I often wonder why God allows Satan to do (whatever). I mean, it looks like God agrees with some of the nonsense that comes from him. (??)

 

[Clyde 154]

Pretty obvious what it means. They were crucifying the archangel and king of Israel and didn't know that or the implications of doing that.

Jesus is no archangel He is the only Begotten Son of the Father (John 3:16)....even the angels were created though Him.

"For by Him (Jesus) were all things created, that are IN HEAVEN, and that are IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE; whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities or powers; all things were created by Him and for Him." -- Col. 1:16

Angels are spirit beings. "Who maketh His angels SPIRITS; His ministers a flaming fire." -- Ps 104:4 Spirits do not have flesh and bones -- Luke 24:39

Jesus is the equal to God because He is the Son of God. "Who being in the form of God, did not think it robbery to be equal with God." -- Phil. 2:6

Such is confirmed in scripture when the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were present in the same instant. God was speaking from Heaven, the Holy Spirit, like a dove descended upon Jesus, while Jesus was being baptized. "This is My beloved Son......." -- Matthew 3:16-17.

Jesus confirmed the only method to be conveyed into the KINGDOM....i.e., the Church of Christ Jesus, is to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. -- Matthew 28:18-20. Jesus was given all authority in Heaven and in Earth.

The Spirits of Men are conveyed into the Kingdom through Jesus the Christ. -- Col. 1:13:14 There is no FLESHLY KINGDOM......the kingdom that Jesus was given is a Spiritual Kingdom and it arrived with power in the 1st century A.D. (Luke 17:20-22, Mark 9:1)......Jesus stated "My kingdom is not of this world......" -- John 18:36 Jesus was given this Kingdom and appointed by the Father as Lord and Christ and now sets on the right hand of the Father in Heaven on the Throne of David....residing over His spiritual kingdom....i.e., Spiritual Jerusalem. (Acts 2, Gal. 4). Once death has been defeated and Hades gives up its dead (Rev. 20:13) at the return of the Christ with judgment upon the quick (living) and the dead (those residing in Hades awaiting the final judgment (2 Tim. 4:1)........then and only then will the Kingdom be given back to the Father. -- 1 Cor. 5:24

 

[toobfreak]

I don't think the Spirit of God is in Satan!

Of course it is. How do you think he once served as an angel? The Spirit of God is in all living things. Satan just became a bad egg, turned his back on God and became consumed by the pleasures of the flesh.

Satan is spirit because he has no body.

Of course he has a body, just not like yours or mine.

I often wonder why God allows Satan to do (whatever).

Because it all comes down to free will. We are all part and parcel to God meaning that while a part of Him, he also endows us with free will just as all leaves are part of the tree yet each leaf has free will to fall off when it chooses. All living things begin as part of God's domain, but many fall down through forgetfulness of God, bodily identification (ego) or sin to the many lower spheres of existence below him. Every living thing you know here on Earth is in the process of either falling lower, remaining the same or moving back up to be with God again according to their actions in each subsequent life.

 

[ding]

just like when liberals sin by promoting baby murder. They don't know what they're doing?

Well, maybe Jesus wasn't talking to people who know what they are doing and do it anyway. I'd say God doesn't look too kindly on that (to say the least)

So Jesus didn't suffer death for the sins of everyone? Just the ones you approve of? If I were you I would be careful speaking for God.

 

[ding]

I often wonder why God allows Satan to do (whatever). I mean, it looks like God agrees with some of the nonsense that comes from him. (??)

Hence my question to you in the other thread. How can an all good and all powerful God allow evil to exist? How can an all good and all powerful God allow suffering to exist? How can an all good and all powerful God allow bad things to happen to good people?

 

[Clyde 154]

Hence my question to you in the other thread. How can an all good and all powerful God allow evil to exist? How can an all good and all powerful God allow suffering to exist? How can an all good and all powerful God allow bad things to happen to good people?

Your problem? You have nothing to compare evil against. You just admitted that evil does exist in this reality......yet Darwin insists the is no moral compass that defines evil and good, its survival of the fittest. Indeed the Bible defines God as omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.....all loving as well as all powerful. Another problem you have.........this is not heaven....its reality existing on a physical plane with existing laws of physics that regulate that existence, everything dies naturally. Guess what? Satan is the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4)

This is confirmed in Scripture (1 John 4:8, Genesis 17:1, Job 42:2, and Matt. 19:26). Yet you just admitted that evil exists in the world. The atheist declares that God cannot be omnipotent...all powerful as the Bible claims, that He is not perfect in goodness/love since as you stated, "He allows evil to exist", He is not omnipotent since He cannot stop evil from existing.....His loving goodness would require Him to stop evil from existing. Since those of Christian Faith declare all 3 are true characteristics of God.....Christians are guilty of promoting a logical fallacy. That about sums up the Atheist argument in a nutshell.

However there is a flaw in this logic or rather lack thereof. The existence of Evil is more of a problem for the atheist than the Christian. Why? Define EVIL without referencing a single line from the Holy Scriptures. There is no logical or rational method for the atheist to define evil. That is if you accept the concept of Evolution as defined by Darwin.

Darwin concludes within his theory of evolution that (1.) No Gods worth having exist. (2.) No life after death exists. (3.) Therefore, there is no foundation for an ethical code to exist in nature, there is no morality found in nature. (4.) There is no ultimate meaning to life.....you are created through nature, you live, you die....its survival of the fittest to continue the bloodline. (5.) Darwin and most atheists deny that human free will exists.

If there is no foundation for an ethical code to exist in nature. How Does the atheist declare what's evil and what's not? You would have to declare that the gift of life is evil for bringing us into the world in the first place.............but even Darwin realized that DEATH is a natural thing, as natural as breathing............who would get to decide who gets a miracle and who does not? Choosing one person, one child, one woman, one man over another would make God a liar. God has no respect of person.....God respects only Truth (Romans 2:11). We are commanded to worship in Spirit and Truth (John 4:24)

God creates and then allows the laws of Physics that He also created to regulate that which is natural.......each natural thing will reproduce each after its own kind (Genesis 1:24-25)..........mankind has been endowed with the gift of Reason, an ability so great and not held by any other species on earth to rationalize his/her own mortality by making free will decisions that effect that mortality every day........thus the person and sometimes others.....those around he or she......are effected by another's decisions, judgments. Some people just continually concentrate on evil always, just as God stated and that made Him repentant (Sorry) that He had ever made man on the earth (Genesis 6:5-6) If man had not been created with the capacity of FREE WILL ..............God could not have been sorry that He created man.....demonstrating that God can't control the thoughts of man who were created in His Image, especially after man disobeyed and gained the knowledge of Sin, man had become as ONE OF US (the Godhead--Genesis 3:22) to know good from evil.........God banned man from the Garden before they could eat from the Tree of Life and live forever.

Death is not Evil..........Accidents are not Evil, Poor decision making is not evil if its based upon ignorance........weather events are not evil. People die every day, people are killed in accidents every day, people die due to weather events or some other natural events....flooding, snow, storms....etc., Yes.......even Children die every day......its natural.......its not evil or the gift of life itself would be logically EVIL.

The Christian is not promised anything extra in this reality..........the race is run to receive the reward after the race of life is over. EVERYONE DIES, EVERYONE GETS SICK..........even the atheist. God demonstrates His love by allowing us to come to the knowledge of the Truth and save our eternal soul (1 Tim. 2:3-4) God tells us not to be concerned with the Flesh........all things physical were created to decay........but be concerned with He that can destroy the soul.

 

[ding]

You have nothing to compare evil against. You just admitted that evil does exist in this reality

That's not accurate. Good exists. The absence of good (or evil) is compared to good. Goodness is the extant reality that exists. The negation of goodness isn't an extant reality. It's a negation of the extant reality. So when I say evil doesn't exist that doesn't mean that goodness isn't negated. It is. From a convention standpoint that's what we call evil. The importance of which is to properly frame the true nature of existence. The true nature of existence is good. That was the point made in the creation account. Everything God created is good. It's non-negotiable to me.