What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[JoeB131]

Yes, he's melting down because he knows it will work. He's trying to make the border wall sound like a chain link fence.

So Joe, you don't want fences around nuclear power plants either, right? I mean they don't work

NObody really wants to get into a nuclear power plant, but let's look at that.

The plant is a limited bit of real estate. you can't go two or three miles down the road to find another place to get at it. The whole permiter you are defending is only a few miles.

the Southern Border is over 2000 miles long. The Border Patrol only has 20,000 agents. That's 10 agents per mile, to guard it 24/7.

They'll find ways through, just like they do now.

Now, if you REALLY wanted to stop the flow, you do what we've already done, cracked down on workplace enforcement, which is why it's gone from flood to a trickle.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you're doing this for the rich people? What a stupid ass you are to carry their water for them

not at all..

My solution to illegal aliens would be go after the places that hire them, not try to top them at the border, which is useless since they will always find another way in.

You see, what we do with the Mexicans we catch? We send them back to Mexico and they try again a few weeks later. You have to get it right every time. they just have to get it right, once.

It's the detainees and refugees from Central America that are causing the current problem with the ugly images.

The first time you enter this country illegally is a misdemeanor. The second time you get caught it's a felony.

 

[danielpalos]

So you're doing this for the rich people? What a stupid ass you are to carry their water for them

not at all..

My solution to illegal aliens would be go after the places that hire them, not try to top them at the border, which is useless since they will always find another way in.

You see, what we do with the Mexicans we catch? We send them back to Mexico and they try again a few weeks later. You have to get it right every time. they just have to get it right, once.

It's the detainees and refugees from Central America that are causing the current problem with the ugly images.

The solution, for some on the left, is to ask the right wing, if they are really really serious about their alleged, War on Terror.

The security of a free State takes Precedence over any federal immigration laws.

That means, 10USC246 has precedence over federal immigration laws.

 

[JoeB131]

That's probably because they interviewed hourly employees and not percentage employees. AIM does a lot of subcontracting. What that means is a company hires them to do their daily deliveries instead of getting their own trucks and drivers. This is also known as dedicated services. So in essence, the employees never deals with AIM. They deal with their customer whoever that may be. They are dedicated to work only for that customer and their deliveries.

You made it sound like a horrible place to work, and the employees said, "Meh, not so much."

Actually, just looked up the last three companies I've worked for over the last 16 years... and they all rate about the same, about 3 stars. Two are actually below that.

 

[Flopper]

Kinda, just as they call us "burgers". It's not a racist term.

BTW, when will you answer the freaking question?

Oh, you're leftist loser, and you don't do that.

The same time you answer the question..if “beaner” is such a term of endearment, have you belled up to a Chicano bar and called the tender a “beaner” to his face?

I asked you a question several times and you dodged every time. Then you asked me a question and demand I answer it immediately, and claimed I am dodging it.

I explained it to you, it's not how it works. Normal people live and learn. It seems you just live.

lol.... again, if you don't think "beaner" is a racial slur, would you call a white person a beaner? A black person a beaner? An Asian person a "beaner"? Of course not. Only Hispanics get called that particular racial slur.

Why you can't wrap your head around this simple fact and keep asking questions like "what race is Mexican" is just a sign of your continued and profound dishonesty and is the hallmark of all Trump supporters when you go one degree deep with them: dishonesty and "whataboutism"

/-----/ "lol.... again, if you don't think "beaner" is a racial slur, "
Ahhh shut up you Gringo

See...Cellblock gets it. Gringo is a racial slur. You wouldn't call someone who is not Anglo that word. If Cellblock gets it-- We're talking someone who is near the bottom rung of society--you should be ashamed.

If you know any mexican people then you'll know this is a non-derogatory term used to refer to US citizens. Mostly because the term "American" does not make sense to the rest of the Americans (all those people who live in the continent named "America", which is every body from Alaska to argentina), and the word "Estadounidense" (UnitedStatean)is too long.

Folklore says it was generated when the US invaded mexico, wearing green uniforms, and the people shouted at them "Green Go Home".

With time it lost all derogatory status and was turned into the most common word to refer to any US citizen.
Urban Dictionary: gringo

 

[JoeB131]

The first time you enter this country illegally is a misdemeanor. The second time you get caught it's a felony.

Okay... and you do a short jail stint, and they send you back.

Remember, this was your big whine with the guy who accidentally shot the Steinele woman. He was caught five times entering the country illegally. And this guy just couldn't keep out of trouble.

 

[Dragonlady]

We desperately need more legal immigrants...

Incorrect. We are a nation of 330,000,000 - one third of a billion - we already have the intellect and the warm bodies to produce whatever we need.

Our birth rate is much too low. It just reached a 30 year low and if the trend continues as is likely, our birth rate will be less than the death rate within 10 to 15 years. We also have 10,000 people a day going into retirement and we are generating 150,000 to 250,000 jobs a month. If we going to continue to grow, we are going to need a lot more people in the 21 century.

/——/ Time to cut back on abortions and rebuild the population.

80% of women having abortions can’t afford to raise the children. If you turn women into breeding cattle, you’ll be added one million babies per year who are poor, and who require substantial income supports to raise them. Since health care, education and nutrition for the poor is well below standard, these kids are likely to remain a drain on the public purse throughout their lives.

/——/ turn women into breeding cattle? What a ridiculous, idiotic Strawman argument. Do you think women have no say in having sex? Do you still believe they are slaves to a man’s whim? Come up with a reasonable argument and you just might win someone over.

Your post is idiocy at its best. I point out that forcing poor women to have babies they can’t afford is going to make poverty worse in the US and blather on about women having sex.

Scratch an anti-abortionist and you get a right winger who wants to punish women for having sex. Every. Single. Time.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Incorrect. We are a nation of 330,000,000 - one third of a billion - we already have the intellect and the warm bodies to produce whatever we need.

Our birth rate is much too low. It just reached a 30 year low and if the trend continues as is likely, our birth rate will be less than the death rate within 10 to 15 years. We also have 10,000 people a day going into retirement and we are generating 150,000 to 250,000 jobs a month. If we going to continue to grow, we are going to need a lot more people in the 21 century.

/——/ Time to cut back on abortions and rebuild the population.

80% of women having abortions can’t afford to raise the children. If you turn women into breeding cattle, you’ll be added one million babies per year who are poor, and who require substantial income supports to raise them. Since health care, education and nutrition for the poor is well below standard, these kids are likely to remain a drain on the public purse throughout their lives.

/——/ turn women into breeding cattle? What a ridiculous, idiotic Strawman argument. Do you think women have no say in having sex? Do you still believe they are slaves to a man’s whim? Come up with a reasonable argument and you just might win someone over.

Your post is idiocy at its best. I point out that forcing poor women to have babies they can’t afford is going to make poverty worse in the US and blather on about women having sex.

Scratch an anti-abortionist and you get a right winger who wants to punish women for having sex. Every. Single. Time.

/——-/ Deflecting from your Strawman argument I see.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm not pissy. I didn't want to have this big discussion about it. I just made a passing comment. No offense intended.

Now would everyone get off my case?

Not you, dear. Happy.

At some point bripat should have asked himself, WTF, I'm arguing on HappyJoy's side, obviously I'm completely lost. But he didn't, he continued to be HJ's nut sack

I have plenty problems with Bripat, but I have to give him credit, he's more knowledgeable than you and like it or not Bripat I want to say thank you.

Kaz, may you shut the fuck up for a change, be humble and learn something:]

sic definition - Google Search

sic
sik/
adverb

1. used in brackets after a copied or quoted word that appears odd or erroneous to show that the word is quoted exactly as it stands in the original, as in a story must hold a child's interest and “enrich his [sic ] life.”.

You didn't quote or copy what I had stated, illiterate prick.

Ouch, Bripat defends you and you slam him. Nice job.

Sic can be a direct quote or not. It can be used for anything that sounds awkward or not right. You are citing one use of sic. It's hilarious that you didn't get the joke. Cecile did, she kept trying to explain it to you to no avail.

How many times did they tell you this in special ed? Dude, this is't that hard? How can you possibly not get it?

HappyJoy never gets the point, no matter how many times you explain it. Pretending to be brain damaged is his favorite tactic.

I dispute the claim that he's pretending to be brain-damaged.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Your bad attitude is keeping you poor. That's why I fired you.

Guy, you couldn't afford me... I probably wouldn't have sent your chicken shit company a resume...

You're a bottom feeder who doesn't even offer health insurance.

I watch little companies like yours go out of business because of their half-assery all the time.

You already told me your max salary was $80K. Now you make less than $25K. It's not the money I can't afford, that's for sure. I wouldn't do you to my staff though.

After I had bought and merged three companies, I had picked up a lot of good employees and of course a lot of dead wood. I was working with my management team on our plan to replace the bad staff. But we didn't know how many people we would need to replace them.

After a lot of discussion, I finally decided we fire all the bad ones immediately and the same day, no dragging it out. Let's rip off the bandaid. We'll identify the gaps and be ready to replace them at once.

So that Friday, we did it. We fired 30% of the company. All of them had either personally bad attitudes or just bad attitudes about doing any work. You were a marginal worker, it was your bad attitude that got you fired.

Here's what you didn't know because you were gone. You know how many of you we had to replace? Zero. It wasn't just you I didn't replace, I didn't need to replace any of you. The place seemed so much roomier and wow, it was so much more enjoyable being there without the lazy, useless and bad attitudes. Over time we replaced you as we grew, but that Friday you all left, your pay and benefits were all just savings

Turns out, your good employees were spending a bunch of their time corrected the errors of the bad apples, I'll bet. Without the lousy co-workers, they probably had more time to be effective at their own jobs.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Except a lot of those jobs don't pay enough. Actually, we had the same issue under Obama, but back then, you didn't think less than 5% unemployment was a bad thing.

The thing is, 40% of people on SNAP have jobs. Most of the rest are retired, disabled or children.

If they are disabled, they can apply for disability. Yes, they have jobs. Some of our customers use temps. When they ask temps if they could work more hours, most of them refuse. Why? Because that would interfere with their stipend. And it's not like these places have them working 40 hours a week to start off with. The temp agencies often switch employees around during the week so they can keep their hours down by the request of the workers.

Believe me, they know how to play the game.

Actually, Maine didn't see any bit of a reduction in SNAP usage than anyone else did.

Our View: On food stamps, don’t follow Maine’s example

In this experiment, Gov. LePage took from tens of thousands of poor residents benefits from the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, more commonly known as SNAP or food stamps, under the idea that it would force those residents to find work and thus remove themselves from government dependency.

Not many got jobs they wouldn’t have eventually found otherwise, and most of those who did find work likely still qualified for assistance. Meanwhile, hunger in Maine got worse, even as it improved almost everywhere else.

This article is such a leftist piece of trash I don't know where to begin. Oh, they would have found jobs anyway? Well then why didn't they find them before the new requirements? They live in rural areas? Then move to where the work is. They are taking care of somebody at home? We have services for that. It's just an excuse to stay home. And as your article points out, they went from food stamps to food pantries and raided them instead of getting job.

This is exactly the response I would expect from the party of excuses. The truth is the requirements worked. It got a lot of people off of food stamps who shouldn't have been on them in the first place.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Your bad attitude is keeping you poor. That's why I fired you.

Guy, you couldn't afford me... I probably wouldn't have sent your chicken shit company a resume...

You're a bottom feeder who doesn't even offer health insurance.

I watch little companies like yours go out of business because of their half-assery all the time.

You already told me your max salary was $80K. Now you make less than $25K. It's not the money I can't afford, that's for sure. I wouldn't do you to my staff though.

After I had bought and merged three companies, I had picked up a lot of good employees and of course a lot of dead wood. I was working with my management team on our plan to replace the bad staff. But we didn't know how many people we would need to replace them.

After a lot of discussion, I finally decided we fire all the bad ones immediately and the same day, no dragging it out. Let's rip off the bandaid. We'll identify the gaps and be ready to replace them at once.

So that Friday, we did it. We fired 30% of the company. All of them had either personally bad attitudes or just bad attitudes about doing any work. You were a marginal worker, it was your bad attitude that got you fired.

Here's what you didn't know because you were gone. You know how many of you we had to replace? Zero. It wasn't just you I didn't replace, I didn't need to replace any of you. The place seemed so much roomier and wow, it was so much more enjoyable being there without the lazy, useless and bad attitudes. Over time we replaced you as we grew, but that Friday you all left, your pay and benefits were all just savings

Bad actors influence others as well. One of our customers just got rid of their shipper. The guy came to work explicitly to make problems for everybody. I hated to pickup there, but it was not only me, other drivers from other companies told me how they hated dealing with this Ahole. In fact some years ago, a driver punched him out he got so pissed; probably lost his job too.

Now that he's gone there is a new spring in everybody's step. The workers are happier and work better. They are not prevented from using their ideas to better the place, and the dock has never looked better. They don't sit in the shipping office all day playing on the internet, they are always doing something. It wasn't until the company got rid of the guy his coworkers expressed how much they hated working there. Now they say it's once again enjoyable to go to work.

And I guess this applies to every business there is.

Actually, most businesses DO have someone who's a lot less pleasant than his/her co-workers. That's just the law of averages.

 

[MikeK]

And another one who thinks punishing children is a suitable response. Way to go dude.

If there are children who are dependent on you and you consciously endeavor to commit an offense which is punishable by confinement, who is responsible for harming the children? Should you be forgiven for your criminal offense and set free rather than cause discomfort to the children?

Too many border jumpers are confident that having children will insulate them from punishment if they are caught. So President Trump's aggressive action will substantially reduce illegal immigration. It is the parents who are punishing their children via their irresponsible conduct.

Simply stated, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

 

[Flopper]

There is. The body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. I don't think Trump is messing with that number. It is .2% of the population, way too small.

And we have almost 2 million illegal aliens combining border crossers with VISA overstays, WAY too large.

Once we get that under control, we can increase legal immigration.

Every action you take is about getting more Democrat votes on the voter rolls. Not one action you're taking costs the Democrats a vote. Your motive is clear

What a shocking revaluation. Democrats don't have to say or do anything to attract Hispanic voters. Donald Trump does it all. He calls them rapist and murders. Says migrants come from shit hole countries. Blames our drug problems on Mexico. Wants to make Mexico pay the cost of defending our border with a wall. Wants to make it impossible for them to bring their families to the US. And he hovers over a taco salad proclaiming, "I love Hispanics."

/——/ One has nothing to do with the other. Maybe if you loved Americans you’d support a strong border.

I believe it's our responsibility to protect our borders. Asking Mexico a country whose GDP is 5% of ours to pay for defense our border is downright embarrassing. If the mightiest nation on earth can't defend it's borders against peasants, mostly women and children, maybe it doesn't deserve those borders.

I agree on that point. We should pay for the wall. It's a pittance in our budget and a major expenditure for Mexico.

I see Trump's point that the reason he thinks they should pay for it is that they've actively shipped their poor and criminals here.

I still think we should just pay for it though.

BTW, it's also a small portion of the amount of money illegal aliens send to Mexico

I have no problem with a wall built where it is needed. There're probably some places on the border that would benefit. However, there are others where it would be a waste of money. In other words we need to put the type of security that is needed considering the terrain and other factors. Running a wall the length of the border would be a huge waste of money that would create more problems than it would solve. With the decrease in estimated illegal crossing which have fallen by 80% over the last 18 years, there are more cost effective solutions in most places.

Everything about undocumented immigrants is an estimate, the number of crossing, number living in US, the number using tax payer dollars, the amount they pay in taxes, the amount they pay in social security, the amount of money wired home, etc. Some estimates are pretty good other are little more than guesses. My point is people say things about undocumented immigrates including myself as if it were facts written in stone when it is really little more than a guess. One of the few really intelligent things I have heard Trump say is that maybe there are 30 million illegal immigrants or maybe there are 3 million. We just don't know for sure.

 

[Kondor3]

...80% of women having abortions can’t afford to raise the children. If you turn women into breeding cattle, you’ll be added one million babies per year who are poor, and who require substantial income supports to raise them. Since health care, education and nutrition for the poor is well below standard, these kids are likely to remain a drain on the public purse throughout their lives.

True. Too much of that and we'll turn into a Third World $hithole...

 

[Cellblock2429]

And we have almost 2 million illegal aliens combining border crossers with VISA overstays, WAY too large.

Once we get that under control, we can increase legal immigration.

Every action you take is about getting more Democrat votes on the voter rolls. Not one action you're taking costs the Democrats a vote. Your motive is clear

What a shocking revaluation. Democrats don't have to say or do anything to attract Hispanic voters. Donald Trump does it all. He calls them rapist and murders. Says migrants come from shit hole countries. Blames our drug problems on Mexico. Wants to make Mexico pay the cost of defending our border with a wall. Wants to make it impossible for them to bring their families to the US. And he hovers over a taco salad proclaiming, "I love Hispanics."

/——/ One has nothing to do with the other. Maybe if you loved Americans you’d support a strong border.

I believe it's our responsibility to protect our borders. Asking Mexico a country whose GDP is 5% of ours to pay for defense our border is downright embarrassing. If the mightiest nation on earth can't defend it's borders against peasants, mostly women and children, maybe it doesn't deserve those borders.

I agree on that point. We should pay for the wall. It's a pittance in our budget and a major expenditure for Mexico.

I see Trump's point that the reason he thinks they should pay for it is that they've actively shipped their poor and criminals here.

I still think we should just pay for it though.

BTW, it's also a small portion of the amount of money illegal aliens send to Mexico

I have no problem with a wall built where it is needed. There're probably some places on the border that would benefit. However, there are others where it would be a waste of money. In other words we need to put the type of security that is needed considering the terrain and other factors. Running a wall the length of the boarder would be a huge waste of money that would create more problems than it would solve. With the decrease in estimated illegal crossing which have fallen by 80% over the last 18 years, there are more cost effective solutions in most places.

Everything about undocumented immigrants is an estimate, the number of crossing, number living in US, the number using tax payer dollars, the amount they pay in taxes, the amount they pay in social security, the amount of money wired home, etc. Some estimates are pretty good other are little more than guesses. My point is people say things about undocumented immigrates as if it were fact written in stone when it is really little more than a guess.

/——/ So you agree with Trump. Nice

 

[JoeB131]

Turns out, your good employees were spending a bunch of their time corrected the errors of the bad apples, I'll bet. Without the lousy co-workers, they probably had more time to be effective at their own jobs.

Meh, what I usually find is the bad employees get promoted for ass-kissing people like Kaz, and the good employees end up doing more work.

 

[JoeB131]

If they are disabled, they can apply for disability. Yes, they have jobs. Some of our customers use temps. When they ask temps if they could work more hours, most of them refuse. Why? Because that would interfere with their stipend. And it's not like these places have them working 40 hours a week to start off with. The temp agencies often switch employees around during the week so they can keep their hours down by the request of the workers.

Believe me, they know how to play the game.

Yes, I'm sure they do. So does the construction guy who collects unemployment in the off season and does off the books work around the neighborhood.

So does the retired person who still does off the books business while collecting social security.

Guess what, buddy, EVERYONE GAMES THE SYSTEM.

 

[Kondor3]

...The language, rhetoric and fear mongering Trump is using against immigrants is the same language that Hitler used against the Jews...

Maybe. Maybe not. But the language was there long before the Imperial Cheeto showed up. A wave of 11-12,000,000 Invaders upon US soil will tend to do that.

...What’s worse is that those Jews who tried to flee Nazi Germany were turned away. The US wouldn’t let them in, nor would Canada. Some fled to other European countries but were shipped to camps after Hitler conquered Europe...

Last I looked, the Mexicans and Guatamalens were not gassing Mestizos on an industrial scale. And even if they were... not our problem.

...What Trump is doing to those Central American immigrants seeking asylum is no different than what Hitler did. He divided Germany in racial groups. Aryans were superior race. Roma, Catholics, and the disabled were undesirable. First he vilified them. Called them subhuman, animals. Said they were destroying Germany. Then he built camps. And then came the Final Solution....

I did not realize that the Jews and Roma were invading Germany by the millions and were herded into concentration camps rather than simply being sent back home.

...Trump has been vilifying immigrants, Muslims, blacks and Latinos since he announced his candidacy. Now he’s jailing them, separating families...

Doesn't matter. Whatever gets the populace riled up to kick their nasty little asses out of our country and back to their own. Want to come here? You must get permission.

...Now he’s building concentration camps.

Incorrect. Temporary detention camps until they are processed. Some will stay. The vast majority will be sent home again. As it should be.

It's about goddamned time that somebody enforced US immigration law and facilitated border control and Zero Tolerance for violators and pressed charges against them.

By the way... give it up. on playing the "Asylum" card... for every legitimate asylum seeker there are a thousand just trying to sneak in for the jobs and the money.

Americans are finally "on" to your shop-worn arguments, and those tired old arguments no longer "play (well) in Peoria"... you went to that well once too often.

The long-term presence of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Alien invaders, and decades of LibProgs browbeating us that they are untouchable, will do that.

They are now "touchable", and bringing their brats with them no longer shields them from deportation.

Nobody likes to see a sucker wise-up, eh, LibProgs?

You should have made a deal while you still could.

Too late now, you silly, arrogant fools.

 

[Sahba]

Republicans tend to lack basic empathy for things they don’t directly witness. They don’t have the emotional maturity or complexity of thought for such a thing. As a result, they don’t bother thinking about the well being of kids. They just know brown people have crossed the border and their GOP masters tell them it’s a bad thing.

The parents are responsible for anything that happens to the kids, they put them in the situation.


.

Using that logic we could murder the kids in their sleep and completely escape culpability. Your argument is weak.

Many are raped, beaten and yes some killed even before they reach the border. Many are trafficked and sold once they reach the US, brought here by people they aren't even related to. That's way Sessions is insisting on DNA tests, to prove paternity. Many are given to supposed relatives who are illegal themselves, that's why they don't answer when DHS calls to check on the kids. All because the parents or who ever they are are using them hoping to get a free pass to disappear into the population. Sessions ins't giving any more free passes.


.

None of this has anything to do with a reason for separating families, if you can't defend the policy then why post at all?

You might look at my first post in this thread. I don't have to defend anything, it's the law. Don't like it, tell you congresscritters to get off their lazy asses and change it.

BTW, how do you know the people that brought the kids here are even their parents? You're just assuming they are.


.

What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

What was that 'Gun Grabber' mantra...? "if it saves even one life..." Well I don't subscribe to that as I recognize that hundreds of thousands have died in securing and maintaining our freedoms afforded us under this Constitution. If a few more have to die in carrying on the torch of freedom, and in sovernty as a Nation (as defined tangibly by our borders)... well, to that I say, there are far less noble ways to lay down ones life.