What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[danielpalos]

tree sparrows help control insects.

 

[Clementine]

The left bitches because people who break the law are temporarily separated from their children. The children are taken care of and returned to the parents.

Here is yet another case of illegal aliens harming citizens. 4 illegal aliens kidnapped and raped two young girls. One was caught. It may be difficult to find the other 3 unless people recognize their photos. Police aren't sure if they are using their real names. This is common.

NATIONWIDE MANHUNT Underway For 3 ILLEGAL ALIENS Who KIDNAPPED And RAPED 13 and 14-Yr-Old Sisters At Days Inn [VIDEO] * 100PercentFedUp.com

Many are murdered or harmed each year by illegal aliens. What human cost is acceptable when we don't secure our borders?

While the left cries that children are separated from parents who rightfully go to jail, where is their outrage for all the victims of illegal aliens? Maybe if we had real border security, thousands of people would still be alive. But, by all mean, liberals can keep shedding fake tears for law breakers to be apart from their children for a time. They have every opportunity not to be separated. They can obey the law. Even after they caught breaking the law, most have the option of returning to the other side of the border rather than be detained. They are only separated if they have previous crimes or are suspected of human trafficking. Obama deported over 3 million illegals, separating over 800,000 children from their parents. The claim was that the focus was on deporting dangerous criminals. That is a lot of dangerous criminals coming through our border.

And the Trump administration is being asked to take everyone at their word and not separate anyone. This is so fucked up.

 

[Flopper]

Of course they can read English. We provide ballots and supporting information in the native language because the voter's comprehension is better in one's native language.

Not sure what your ballot looks like but mine always contains propositions which are discussed in detail with accompanying information.

To provide ballots in English only would accomplish nothing other than having less informed voters voting on important ballot issues such tax proposals, infrastructure and schools.

Trust me, I see voting results. No matter what language used, people don't understand important issues they are voting on.

All the state can due is provide the information in the easiest readable form. If voters ignore it, there's not much can done about it. I always tell people to ignore any proposal on the ballot that they don't understand. Unfortunately, most voters vote for people they have never heard of and proposals they don't understand.

Then maybe foreigners who do not totally understand our ballots in English should do the same: if they can't understand it, don't vote on it.

However, they are US citizens, not foreigners and voting is their responsibility and right so don't we want them to have the best understanding possible of the issues they are voting on.

Well if we're going to go down that road, what do you say about drawing big color pictures on the ballots and Big Bird videos explaining what issues actually mean to Americans who don't understand them?

If you don't understand WTF is gong on when voting, then don't vote is all. We can't pander to everybody who doesn't understand issues, taxation or policies.

If I were a Republican I would certainly be supporting ballots and ballot information in the native languages of citizens. If they don't understand the proposals, and both the pros and cons of those proposals, they will not make informed choices and that means most likely they will vote for democrat supported issues because democrats court minorities much more than republicans. If your argument is sound, then informed voters are more likely to be your allies than adversaries.

 

[WEATHER53]

we need to increase our watersheds; that means, picking beavers as winners.

Beavers already are winners
I feed birds only when snowcover

 

[danielpalos]

The left bitches because people who break the law are temporarily separated from their children. The children are taken care of and returned to the parents.

Here is yet another case of illegal aliens harming citizens. 4 illegal aliens kidnapped and raped two young girls. One was caught. It may be difficult to find the other 3 unless people recognize their photos. Police aren't sure if they are using their real names. This is common.

NATIONWIDE MANHUNT Underway For 3 ILLEGAL ALIENS Who KIDNAPPED And RAPED 13 and 14-Yr-Old Sisters At Days Inn [VIDEO] * 100PercentFedUp.com

Many are murdered or harmed each year by illegal aliens. What human cost is acceptable when we don't secure our borders?

While the left cries that children are separated from parents who rightfully go to jail, where is their outrage for all the victims of illegal aliens? Maybe if we had real border security, thousands of people would still be alive. But, by all mean, liberals can keep shedding fake tears for law breakers to be apart from their children for a time. They have every opportunity not to be separated. They can obey the law. Even after they caught breaking the law, most have the option of returning to the other side of the border rather than be detained. They are only separated if they have previous crimes or are suspected of human trafficking. Obama deported over 3 million illegals, separating over 800,000 children from their parents. The claim was that the focus was on deporting dangerous criminals. That is a lot of dangerous criminals coming through our border.

And the Trump administration is being asked to take everyone at their word and not separate anyone. This is so fucked up.

lousy policies. we create our own illegal problem. why not actually solve our problem and make money at the same time? applied capitalism too much incentive for the right wing.

 

[danielpalos]

we need to increase our watersheds; that means, picking beavers as winners.

Beavers already are winners
I feed birds only when snowcover

i help out the birds that hang out anyway. we got into some chickens and pigeons. i am trying to grow some of our own bird food.

 

[kaz]

And that's what leftists don't have which is why they'd rather get a cell upgrade from government instead of living the life of a free man like you and me

The problem is they think they're free because living under government control is all many of them know. Work 20 hours a week or less, have four or five kids that you can't afford to have, get a HUD house in the suburbs and ruin the neighborhood, eat like a pig so you're too fat to do anything with your life even if you wanted to. That's freedom to some people.

What government gives, government can take away. And they want a government which is petty and spiteful. They can lose control of that just like they're losing control of the supreme court

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trust me, I see voting results. No matter what language used, people don't understand important issues they are voting on.

All the state can due is provide the information in the easiest readable form. If voters ignore it, there's not much can done about it. I always tell people to ignore any proposal on the ballot that they don't understand. Unfortunately, most voters vote for people they have never heard of and proposals they don't understand.

Then maybe foreigners who do not totally understand our ballots in English should do the same: if they can't understand it, don't vote on it.

However, they are US citizens, not foreigners and voting is their responsibility and right so don't we want them to have the best understanding possible of the issues they are voting on.

Well if we're going to go down that road, what do you say about drawing big color pictures on the ballots and Big Bird videos explaining what issues actually mean to Americans who don't understand them?

If you don't understand WTF is gong on when voting, then don't vote is all. We can't pander to everybody who doesn't understand issues, taxation or policies.

If I were a Republican I would certainly be supporting ballots and ballot information in the native languages of citizens. If they don't understand the proposals, and both the pros and cons of those proposals, they will not make informed choices and that means most likely they will vote for democrat supported issues because democrats court minorities much more than republicans. If your argument is sound, then informed voters are more likely to be your allies than adversaries.

Flopper, WTF do you think this is all about anyway? It's all about Democrats ushering more votes from third world countries. Do you think for one minute that if Republicans stood a chance with these people, or that they were renown to vote Republican, the Democrats would not be getting rid of their sanctuary cities, support building the highest tech wall money can buy? Of course they would..

It's statistics. These people ARE going to vote Democrat no matter what, and because Democrats can't win elections fair and square, they need to find ways to cheat the system so they can win. If not for obtaining power, the Democrats would be more anti-immigrant than the Republicans.

 

[JoeB131]

Who said for no benefits? Sure, they can get government insurance cheap. That's how the Communists designed the plan. Get cheap insurance for their voters, and F the Republican voters by setting their prices too high to afford it. That's what's wrong with putting control freaks in power.

Again, I had no problem getting affordable insurance, so you are blowing smoke...

The real problem is, you keep taking it up the butt from the One Percent and asking if you can have another. ANd it makes you so angry that someone is making the system work for them.

 

[JoeB131]

The problem is they think they're free because living under government control is all many of them know. Work 20 hours a week or less, have four or five kids that you can't afford to have, get a HUD house in the suburbs and ruin the neighborhood, eat like a pig so you're too fat to do anything with your life even if you wanted to. That's freedom to some people.

As opposed to the Racist from Cleveland, who lives in the same slum, spends half his day on USMB complaining about poor people while his boss cheats him out of insurance..

And never looks for a better job.

 

[JoeB131]

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard yet. Birds don't have that kind of memory, and their food gathering abilities are largely instinct, not learned.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

If we had a financial collapse, we'd probably finally redistribute the 87% of the wealth held by the top 20% to make sure the 40% on the bottom that have less than 1% get their fair share. It's why the rich never let big recessions go too far. The absolute last thing they want is another FDR giving working people another "New Deal". It took them 70 years to undo the last "New Deal".

The problem isn't a lack of wealth, it's the distribution of it.

 

[Cosmos]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

If being in the custody of the US Government under HHS is worse than being in the custody of human sex traffickers, we got a problem. Did you support Obamacare? I believe that was also administered by HHS.

 

[JoeB131]

They lower wages so that Americans on the bottom can't afford to pay rent.
They collect welfare, through their anchor babies, costing our government money that should be reserved for Americans.
They take slots in Universities, that should be reserved to Citizens.
They use resources in Medical Centers and then don't pay their bills, sticking it to the Americans citizens to pay it for them.
Nobody gives a fuck about their race.

All these same things were said about the Poles, Germans, Irish...

Shit, I'm old enough to remember when Pollock jokes were still a thing.

My Grandfather encountered so much discrimination for his German Heritage between the World Wars that he changed the pronunciation of the family name and called himself "Louis" instead of "Ludwig".

Here's the thing about Immigrants. They come into this country, they do the jobs Americans don't really want, and they make a better life for their kids. And sometimes, those kids get it... and sometimes those kids become Americanized and miss the point.

 

[Cosmos]

Undocumented immigrants have the right to seek asylum, apply for refugee status, and remain in the country pending approval of that application.

Uh....the very fact that they are "undocumented" means they have entered the country illegally. If they were "documented" they would have had their passport stamped by US immigration at a legal port of entry.

 

[Cosmos]

They lower wages so that Americans on the bottom can't afford to pay rent.
They collect welfare, through their anchor babies, costing our government money that should be reserved for Americans.
They take slots in Universities, that should be reserved to Citizens.
They use resources in Medical Centers and then don't pay their bills, sticking it to the Americans citizens to pay it for them.
Nobody gives a fuck about their race.

All these same things were said about the Poles, Germans, Irish...

Shit, I'm old enough to remember when Pollock jokes were still a thing.

My Grandfather encountered so much discrimination for his German Heritage between the World Wars that he changed the pronunciation of the family name and called himself "Louis" instead of "Ludwig".

Here's the thing about Immigrants. They come into this country, they do the jobs Americans don't really want, and they make a better life for their kids. And sometimes, those kids get it... and sometimes those kids become Americanized and miss the point.

Amazingly, we have a legal means for people to do that. It starts by them obtaining an immigrant visa at the US Consulate in their country of origin. It's illegal to just walk into the country without permission.

 

[JoeB131]

Amazingly, we have a legal means for people to do that. It starts by them obtaining an immigrant visa at the US Consulate in their country of origin. It's illegal to just walk into the country without permission.

Lots of things are "illegal" and Americans do them every day...

I don't get worked up about that.

The problem with our immigration system is that it is DESIGNED to encourage undocumented immigration, to provide the One Percent with a pool of labor with no rights.

 

[Cosmos]

Amazingly, we have a legal means for people to do that. It starts by them obtaining an immigrant visa at the US Consulate in their country of origin. It's illegal to just walk into the country without permission.

Lots of things are "illegal" and Americans do them every day...

I don't get worked up about that.

The problem with our immigration system is that it is DESIGNED to encourage undocumented immigration, to provide the One Percent with a pool of labor with no rights.

Oh, ok. So you're advocating for people to defy our immigration system and break the law by coming here illegally. Just because "lots of things are illegal".

So why not just come out and say that in the first place? Is there some reason you want this and can you tell us why it's best for the USA to have the country flooded with undocumented aliens whose identities and backgrounds we do not know?

 

[danielpalos]

And that's what leftists don't have which is why they'd rather get a cell upgrade from government instead of living the life of a free man like you and me

The problem is they think they're free because living under government control is all many of them know. Work 20 hours a week or less, have four or five kids that you can't afford to have, get a HUD house in the suburbs and ruin the neighborhood, eat like a pig so you're too fat to do anything with your life even if you wanted to. That's freedom to some people.

What government gives, government can take away. And they want a government which is petty and spiteful. They can lose control of that just like they're losing control of the supreme court

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

 

[OODA_Loop]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard yet. Birds don't have that kind of memory, and their food gathering abilities are largely instinct, not learned.

From National Geographic

Memory Aids Birds in Migration, Study Finds

 

[OODA_Loop]

Hummingbird's huge memory lets them remember the location of every flower in their territory | Daily Mail Online