What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Cosmos]

The problem is they think they're free because living under government control is all many of them know. Work 20 hours a week or less, have four or five kids that you can't afford to have, get a HUD house in the suburbs and ruin the neighborhood, eat like a pig so you're too fat to do anything with your life even if you wanted to. That's freedom to some people.

What government gives, government can take away. And they want a government which is petty and spiteful. They can lose control of that just like they're losing control of the supreme court

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Really?

I've worked at two companies that knew damned well that the "day laborers" the temp company sent over weren't here legally. And both cases,the bosses were right wing assholes.

Temp agencies are supposed to check out their own workers--not their customers.

True. One of the benefits you pay for when using an employment/temp agency is having them do the work of screening prospective employees for you. And if I'm not mistaken, the contract you sign with them does specify that the agency bears the responsibility for the outcome of that screening.

Several of our customers use temp agencies. One of my friends works for a company that does the same thing. Years ago even I signed up with several temp agencies during the Reagan recession. Unlike the Obama recession, there wasn't even a McDonald's job around. Only one called me for work, but after the first job, they got such a positive evaluation from their customer they had me working every day somewhere. They even asked me to work two shifts. I stayed with them for about six or eight months.

So I know how they work. No matter where they sent me, I had to stop by the Manpower office every Friday to pickup my paycheck. Even though it wasn't much, they gave me a great reference when I applied for full-time work at other companies.

Thankfully, most of them have direct deposit now.

I did the temp-to-hire thing when I moved to Phoenix, because I didn't know the employers and the job market well, and it was a good way to get working quickly.

I've been doing contract work since I sold my businesses. The money is still good and wow, my quality of life is so much better. I was home at 5pm today. I wasn't home at 5pm regularly my whole career to this point

I really love my job. I'm debating hard whether or not I want to go through with my plan to take a four-month course to get my certification as a medical coder. On the one hand, it would increase my income by at least $5 an hour, which is inarguable. On the other hand, I hate the whole idea of leaving a place and job and group of people I really like to go work somewhere I will probably hate everything but the paycheck.

But there are worse problems to have than too many opportunities, right?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Lots of things are "illegal" and Americans do them every day...

We are Americans doing illegal things in America. And when Americans get caught doing these illegal things, they pay the penalty for them.

Go to Mexico and so something illegal. When you get caught, tell the police that Mexicans do the same thing all the time.

The problem with our immigration system is that it is DESIGNED to encourage undocumented immigration, to provide the One Percent with a pool of labor with no rights.

No, the system isn't--the Democrats are.

It's Democrats who fight for illegals to be here.
It's Democrats who fight to keep their sanctuary cities and now states.
It's Democrats who are fighting against the wall.
It's Democrats who allow them to have drivers licenses in their states so they can get to the jobs they're not supposed to have.

The system isn't the problem. Democrats are the problem.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard yet. Birds don't have that kind of memory, and their food gathering abilities are largely instinct, not learned.

Yes it is, and when their instinct tells them to go to the feeder to eat, that's what they do. Yes, birds do learn things. I've had several canaries and several tropical parrots.

If we had a financial collapse, we'd probably finally redistribute the 87% of the wealth held by the top 20% to make sure the 40% on the bottom that have less than 1% get their fair share. It's why the rich never let big recessions go too far. The absolute last thing they want is another FDR giving working people another "New Deal". It took them 70 years to undo the last "New Deal".

The problem isn't a lack of wealth, it's the distribution of it.

What a Nazi you are. You're talking about stealing the property of citizens using government siege for mistakes the government made in the past. Then you people wonder why we want to keep our guns? But even if we could do that, it won't cover 1/100th of what we owe to others. You really think that rich people have all the money in the world, don't you?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The problem is they think they're free because living under government control is all many of them know. Work 20 hours a week or less, have four or five kids that you can't afford to have, get a HUD house in the suburbs and ruin the neighborhood, eat like a pig so you're too fat to do anything with your life even if you wanted to. That's freedom to some people.

As opposed to the Racist from Cleveland, who lives in the same slum, spends half his day on USMB complaining about poor people while his boss cheats him out of insurance..

And never looks for a better job.

Yes, because in the makeup world of Joe, Democrats are not responsible for my insurance coverage today. Democrats are not responsible for putting their lowlifes in otherwise fantastic neighborhoods to ruin them in the name of social justice.

It's never a Democrats fault, is it Joe?

I bet when you were a kid and threw a rock through your neighbors window, you blamed your neighbor for not having thick enough glass.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The real problem is, you keep taking it up the butt from the One Percent and asking if you can have another.

And you keep avoiding getting psychological help for that OCD of yours. How many times have you brought up my insurance Joe? Like over 200 times already? You don't think you have a serious problem?????

 

[Flopper]

And that's what leftists don't have which is why they'd rather get a cell upgrade from government instead of living the life of a free man like you and me

The problem is they think they're free because living under government control is all many of them know. Work 20 hours a week or less, have four or five kids that you can't afford to have, get a HUD house in the suburbs and ruin the neighborhood, eat like a pig so you're too fat to do anything with your life even if you wanted to. That's freedom to some people.

What government gives, government can take away. And they want a government which is petty and spiteful. They can lose control of that just like they're losing control of the supreme court

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

They know quite well what it takes to immigrate to the US. $312 for themselves and each of their children and a 10 to 15 year wait provided they have a sponsor in the US. If not, they are wasting their time and money as they will never get in legally. For most of these people the chance of getting in legally doesn't exist, there is little reason not try to petitioning for asylum or coming in illegally.

 

[Flopper]

What government gives, government can take away. And they want a government which is petty and spiteful. They can lose control of that just like they're losing control of the supreme court

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

The US is the biggest market for illegal drugs in the world. Expecting countries with a small fraction of the wealth of the US to control the cartels is down right stupid. We must stop the demand and that begins with curtailing American's insatiable demand for illegal drugs.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

The US is the biggest market for illegal drugs in the world. Expecting countries with a small fraction of the wealth of the US to control the cartels is down right stupid. We must stop the demand and that begins with curtailing American's insatiable demand for illegal drugs.

Okay, and we do that how?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The problem is they think they're free because living under government control is all many of them know. Work 20 hours a week or less, have four or five kids that you can't afford to have, get a HUD house in the suburbs and ruin the neighborhood, eat like a pig so you're too fat to do anything with your life even if you wanted to. That's freedom to some people.

What government gives, government can take away. And they want a government which is petty and spiteful. They can lose control of that just like they're losing control of the supreme court

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

They know quite well what it takes to immigrate to the US. $312 for themselves and each of their children and a 10 to 15 year wait provided they have a sponsor in the US. If not, they are wasting their time and money as they will never get in legally. For most of these people the chance of getting in legally doesn't exist, there is little reason not try to petitioning for asylum or coming in illegally.

Correct, because there isn't enough deterrent. Now Americans are fighting each other over the separation of foreign families which the left seems to feel they have an AMERICAN RIGHT to challenge. Some stupid bitch from the Congo; a woman who came to this country almost 25 years ago and can barely be understood, put our law enforcement at risk to get her off the Statue of Liberty. She cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars, risked rescue teams lives, and stopped real Americans from a one-time experience of the statue on our Independence day.

Hell of a way to say thanks for letting her into this country. Close the border to everybody.

 

[Flopper]

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

The US is the biggest market for illegal drugs in the world. Expecting countries with a small fraction of the wealth of the US to control the cartels is down right stupid. We must stop the demand and that begins with curtailing American's insatiable demand for illegal drugs.

Okay, and we do that how?

Well sort of. Heroin users have tripped since 2003. Positive drug tests have increased 47% between 2011 and 2014. We need to increase the outreach programs aimed at young people about 500% for starters. Media campaigns work. We have seen it work with smoking and alcohol and it will work with drugs. Lastly, we need to rework our drug addition programs.

If you dry up the demand, supply will not be problem. In addition we will solve a major problem in countries like Mexico and also reduce illegal immigration problem.

 

[Flopper]

What government gives, government can take away. And they want a government which is petty and spiteful. They can lose control of that just like they're losing control of the supreme court

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

They know quite well what it takes to immigrate to the US. $312 for themselves and each of their children and a 10 to 15 year wait provided they have a sponsor in the US. If not, they are wasting their time and money as they will never get in legally. For most of these people the chance of getting in legally doesn't exist, there is little reason not try to petitioning for asylum or coming in illegally.

Correct, because there isn't enough deterrent. Now Americans are fighting each other over the separation of foreign families which the left seems to feel they have an AMERICAN RIGHT to challenge. Some stupid bitch from the Congo; a woman who came to this country almost 25 years ago and can barely be understood, put our law enforcement at risk to get her off the Statue of Liberty. She cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars, risked rescue teams lives, and stopped real Americans from a one-time experience of the statue on our Independence day.

Hell of a way to say thanks for letting her into this country. Close the border to everybody.

How do you create a deterrent that will dissuade families from crossing our borders when their kids are being kidnapped and murdered or families that that see their future is working endlessly at starvation wages. US detention and even prison is a far better option than what they face at home.

 

[kaz]

The problem is they think they're free because living under government control is all many of them know. Work 20 hours a week or less, have four or five kids that you can't afford to have, get a HUD house in the suburbs and ruin the neighborhood, eat like a pig so you're too fat to do anything with your life even if you wanted to. That's freedom to some people.

What government gives, government can take away. And they want a government which is petty and spiteful. They can lose control of that just like they're losing control of the supreme court

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

They know quite well what it takes to immigrate to the US. $312 for themselves and each of their children and a 10 to 15 year wait provided they have a sponsor in the US. If not, they are wasting their time and money as they will never get in legally. For most of these people the chance of getting in legally doesn't exist, there is little reason not try to petitioning for asylum or coming in illegally.

People come here legally all the time. The problem you have is that to get here legally, they need to be able to support themselves and those aren't the ones you want. The ones who support themselves aren't as certain to vote Democrat. And if we stopped line cutters, we could get the line moving more quickly.

Regardless, you didn't support the crap you made up that they only want to come here to give their children a better life. If they thought like that, they wouldn't be the poorest Mexicans. The poor live in the now. That's why they're poor

 

[kaz]

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

The US is the biggest market for illegal drugs in the world. Expecting countries with a small fraction of the wealth of the US to control the cartels is down right stupid. We must stop the demand and that begins with curtailing American's insatiable demand for illegal drugs.

"We must stop demand." That's leftist for do nothing. You're not going to stop demand, that's another moronic platitude. We need to legalize drugs. And we need to build a wall so drug dealers can't walk across the line we erroneously refer to as a "border" because it isn't.

Tough choice, huh, Flopper? We stop drugs from crossing the border so easily with a wall, and it keeps out Democrat voters too. You pass on that deal, keeping the flow of Democrat voters is more important

 

[kaz]

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

The US is the biggest market for illegal drugs in the world. Expecting countries with a small fraction of the wealth of the US to control the cartels is down right stupid. We must stop the demand and that begins with curtailing American's insatiable demand for illegal drugs.

Okay, and we do that how?

That's it, that's his plan. We need to stop the demand for illegal drugs.

Just like his plan is that we need to stop shootings and his plan is to keep guns from criminals.

There's a theme to Floppers plans ...

 

[kaz]

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

The US is the biggest market for illegal drugs in the world. Expecting countries with a small fraction of the wealth of the US to control the cartels is down right stupid. We must stop the demand and that begins with curtailing American's insatiable demand for illegal drugs.

Okay, and we do that how?

Well sort of. Heroin users have tripped since 2003. Positive drug tests have increased 47% between 2011 and 2014. We need to increase the outreach programs aimed at young people about 500% for starters. Media campaigns work. We have seen it work with smoking and alcohol and it will work with drugs. Lastly, we need to rework our drug addition programs.

If you dry up the demand, supply will not be problem. In addition we will solve a major problem in countries like Mexico and also reduce illegal immigration problem.

OMG, increase outreach and take out ads. It'll work! We'll eliminate drugs and clean up Latin America!

I didn't think I could think you were any more stupid than I already thought you were. Nicely done, my friend. You proved me wrong

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

They know quite well what it takes to immigrate to the US. $312 for themselves and each of their children and a 10 to 15 year wait provided they have a sponsor in the US. If not, they are wasting their time and money as they will never get in legally. For most of these people the chance of getting in legally doesn't exist, there is little reason not try to petitioning for asylum or coming in illegally.

Correct, because there isn't enough deterrent. Now Americans are fighting each other over the separation of foreign families which the left seems to feel they have an AMERICAN RIGHT to challenge. Some stupid bitch from the Congo; a woman who came to this country almost 25 years ago and can barely be understood, put our law enforcement at risk to get her off the Statue of Liberty. She cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars, risked rescue teams lives, and stopped real Americans from a one-time experience of the statue on our Independence day.

Hell of a way to say thanks for letting her into this country. Close the border to everybody.

How do you create a deterrent that will dissuade families from crossing our borders when their kids are being kidnapped and murdered or families that that see their future is working endlessly at starvation wages. US detention and even prison is a far better option than what they face at home.

It is? Then why haven't we tried it yet? Oh, that's right, because the Democrats would never allow it because prison would work.

If it's so bad there, why did these people have kids? Why isn't everybody in each of those countries trying to get here? It seems most are staying back.

I'm not saying it isn't bad there, but no reason to lay that problem on us. If it's bad in your country, it's time to fight to straighten it out. If they don't want to fight, then they can live how they are today. After all, we have kids that die here too. Just yesterday a 16 year old took a bullet in the head and one in the chest. He was dead before the medics even got there, and that happens all the time over here. We have one of the highest murder rates in the industrialized world. You leftists are constantly reminding us of that. We have the highest percentage of our people behind bars to boot.

So why would they want to come here?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

The US is the biggest market for illegal drugs in the world. Expecting countries with a small fraction of the wealth of the US to control the cartels is down right stupid. We must stop the demand and that begins with curtailing American's insatiable demand for illegal drugs.

Okay, and we do that how?

That's it, that's his plan. We need to stop the demand for illegal drugs.

Just like his plan is that we need to stop shootings and his plan is to keep guns from criminals.

There's a theme to Floppers plans ...

Yes, there is a theme, it's called failure.

 

[kaz]

In 1980 at the age of 20, I got my first apartment in the fall. As an animal lover, I was fascinated with birds, so one of the first things I did was hang a bird feeder on my upstairs back porch. I would sit in my bedroom watching them from my window for hours.

Spring came along and I got to meet my elderly neighbor. After some small talk, he said "You know Ray, what you're doing for the birds is a nice gesture. But you may be doing them more harm than good. You see, feeding them in the winter is a good thing because food is scarce. But if you leave that feeder out year long, the birds will forget how to obtain food on their own. If you move or get bored feeding the birds, they will likely parish."

I never forgot the lesson the old man gave me; not because of the birds, but because as I grew older, I realized this is what our government does for people; leave the feeder up year long.

If we ever had a financial collapse in this country (and yes, it could happen) what would happen to all these people who depend on government when these programs have to stop? How would they feed themselves, their family?

Who says it's going to stop, feeding the birds or feeding the people but I get your point. The key is moderation. You don't want to feed the birds so much that they stop hunting or people for that matter.

However, let me remind you of the differences between people and birds. Birds have only 3 goals in life, eat, keep from being eaten, and reproduce. Humans are far more complex and have goals more complex goals than birds such as building wealth, gaining the respect of others, and providing a better life for their children for starters.

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

They know quite well what it takes to immigrate to the US. $312 for themselves and each of their children and a 10 to 15 year wait provided they have a sponsor in the US. If not, they are wasting their time and money as they will never get in legally. For most of these people the chance of getting in legally doesn't exist, there is little reason not try to petitioning for asylum or coming in illegally.

Correct, because there isn't enough deterrent. Now Americans are fighting each other over the separation of foreign families which the left seems to feel they have an AMERICAN RIGHT to challenge. Some stupid bitch from the Congo; a woman who came to this country almost 25 years ago and can barely be understood, put our law enforcement at risk to get her off the Statue of Liberty. She cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars, risked rescue teams lives, and stopped real Americans from a one-time experience of the statue on our Independence day.

Hell of a way to say thanks for letting her into this country. Close the border to everybody.

How do you create a deterrent that will dissuade families from crossing our borders when their kids are being kidnapped and murdered or families that that see their future is working endlessly at starvation wages. US detention and even prison is a far better option than what they face at home.

OMG, you're a monster. That's what you think Latin American countries are and you want to do zero about it to help them. How do you live with yourself?

Again, they got out and are in Mexico. They're out of it. First of all you're a dumb ass who presents it as if that's where 100% of illegal aliens come from. Second, that they came from that and are out of it does not justify committing another crime once they are out

Flopper: The man only stole the food to feed his starving kids, that's why he took the bread and cheese ... and beer ...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You endlessly parrot that platitude. First of all, I know of no study that has demonstrated that's a major factor for the criminals breaking our laws and coming here illegally.

Even if it is, that they chose to break the law and come here as criminals is a terrible example to set for their kids. If they really cared about their kids, they would work to show they can support themselves and go to a US consulate in Mexico and find out what it takes to come here legally and ... wait their turn ...

Having children is not any justification to commit a crime even if your platitude is accepted as fact.

And remind me again how you're against illegal immigration while you fight tooth and nail to ensure we do nothing to stop them

let's end our alleged wars on drugs and terror to stop creating refugees.

Seriously? Ok. So it's our fault then, eh? In that case we need to take responsibility and fix it. The first step is to approach all these countries diplomatically and put the pressure on their governments to stop the drug trade which is supposedly generating the asylum seekers. If that doesn't work with start applying economic pressure to let them know we're serious. And if that doesn't work we execute a regime change and in the process wipe out their drug trading infrastructure since they're too incompetent or corrupt to do it themselves. Then on our end we start applying stiff prison terms in the jails of the countries we conquered to any drug users or traffickers we catch in the USA. And we force them into community service and reconstruction in the countries we've probably destroyed. I'd say something along the lines of 25-30 years before we let them back into the country. Would that do it?

The US is the biggest market for illegal drugs in the world. Expecting countries with a small fraction of the wealth of the US to control the cartels is down right stupid. We must stop the demand and that begins with curtailing American's insatiable demand for illegal drugs.

Okay, and we do that how?

Well sort of. Heroin users have tripped since 2003. Positive drug tests have increased 47% between 2011 and 2014. We need to increase the outreach programs aimed at young people about 500% for starters. Media campaigns work. We have seen it work with smoking and alcohol and it will work with drugs. Lastly, we need to rework our drug addition programs.

If you dry up the demand, supply will not be problem. In addition we will solve a major problem in countries like Mexico and also reduce illegal immigration problem.

Alcohol and tobacco usage went down because of taxation--not outreach programs. We can't tax opioids because they are illegal. It doesn't work the same way. Most people who went to rehab go right back on the stuff. I knew two guys who were dopers, both spent six years in prison. Two weeks after getting out, they were both back on dope again. One of them died in January of this year.

The bottom line is we can't stop demand because we have no control over it. But we can greatly reduce supply given anybody or their mother can just walk across our border.