What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[JoeB131]

Well, be prepared for a 20% drop in GDP. The last time that happen was in the Great the Depression. Wouldn't be any need for that great beautiful wall, since nobody would be coming here.

I think there are bigger challenges than that. when you have a large portion of the population that can't work due to age and require medical attention, you actually need to bring in more people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It think 315 million people is too many already. Ever drive on the highway during the day? It's like rush hour half the time. I would like to see our population down to around 250 at most.

Well, no one is stopping you from offing yourself.

So your argument is we need to knock some people off because we didn't keep up the roads because we were too busy giving tax cuts to billionaires instead of investing in infrastructure like the rest of the world did.

Got it.

No, my point was that we have more than enough people in this country and there is no need to bring in more. In fact shut the damn border down already. We'll do just fine without people coming here, taking our jobs, ruining our neighborhoods, changing our language, and bringing their crime with them. Somehow we will survive.

 

[kaz]

I vote, government doesn't give a shit about me.

That's because you don't vote for anyone who is realistically going to be trusted with the levers of power. kind of like how we don't give 10 year olds the car keys...

Swish. No, we're the middle man. You want your salary in pay or benefits? I don't give a shit. I'm not the customer. I just pay market wages. If the workers want medical insurance rather than that amount of pay, that's fine. But it comes out of your wages. All of it, not just what you think you're paying for it. I pay market wages.

Well, actually, it all comes out of operating costs, but never mind. Bigger the company, less I have to pick up from my wages. I'm mean, I'm sure the shitball companies you ran into the ground before a mercy-buyout got the "If you lose an arm, we help you look for it" insurance. But companies I worked for offered real insurance for real professionals.

You keep calling me greedy because you're stupid and know nothing about business. Wages are set by the market, not me. You don't grasp that if I don't pay market wages, I don't have employees. I don't even have a choice. That makes me neither greedy nor generous. I pay them market wages, my customers pay market prices. If I don't match those up, I fail.

sounds like you fail a lot, given you are between businesses again... but never mind. The thing is, you pay people shitty wages and get shitty employees.

But, hey, if it weren't for shitty bosses like you, I wouldn't have a steady stream of resume customers.

Yes, you mentioned that. I don't pay market wages, my employees work for me even though they could leave for more money. And I'm a shitty boss who no one would want to work for. But my employees won't leave for more money

 

[kaz]

It think 315 million people is too many already. Ever drive on the highway during the day? It's like rush hour half the time. I would like to see our population down to around 250 at most.

Well, no one is stopping you from offing yourself.

So your argument is we need to knock some people off because we didn't keep up the roads because we were too busy giving tax cuts to billionaires instead of investing in infrastructure like the rest of the world did.

Got it.

No, my point was that we have more than enough people in this country and there is no need to bring in more. In fact shut the damn border down already. We'll do just fine without people coming here, taking our jobs, ruining our neighborhoods, changing our language, and bringing their crime with them. Somehow we will survive.

Well, I'm for shutting the border and cleaning up the mess we have. Then having controlled immigration

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It think 315 million people is too many already. Ever drive on the highway during the day? It's like rush hour half the time. I would like to see our population down to around 250 at most.

Well, no one is stopping you from offing yourself.

So your argument is we need to knock some people off because we didn't keep up the roads because we were too busy giving tax cuts to billionaires instead of investing in infrastructure like the rest of the world did.

Got it.

No, my point was that we have more than enough people in this country and there is no need to bring in more. In fact shut the damn border down already. We'll do just fine without people coming here, taking our jobs, ruining our neighborhoods, changing our language, and bringing their crime with them. Somehow we will survive.

Well, I'm for shutting the border and cleaning up the mess we have. Then having controlled immigration

I'll meet you half way on that one. But our mess is so large that it will take many years to clean it up. However if we keep letting people in while we're trying to do that is like bailing water out of the boat without fixing the hole.

 

[Coyote]

Bu

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

First let's make it crystal clear that if you are refused entry at the border or are deported, if you are found within U.S. Borders again it is a felony.

Now let's talk about parenting.
I have always considered teaching right and wrong to a child is one of the main responsibilities of being a parent. If you are showing disdain for laws. Right or wrong only applies to others by your actions you are not much of a parent.
Some of these parents are traveling many miles with small children in dangerous conditions. Then they get to the desert southwest and attempt a crossing that kills on average 400 people a year. Does not say much for compassion of the parent. There are better ways then putting a child in such dangers.

There are people who kidnap a child to be sold, I would rather hundreds be inconvenienced then allow one child to spend their life in abuse.

Where was your voice when the last administration was doing the same thing? Where was your voice when Clinton signed the law that made this fiasco?

In short your faux outrage and pretend caring is reprehensible.

Many parents in this group of migrants are fleeing horrendous violence in Central America. But you seem to consider it child abuse for them to try and protect their children by fleeing with them. What good parent would leave their children at the mercy of those gangs? We are far too comfortable, seated in our overstuffed recliners, flipping the remote and passing judgement on people experiencing things that will never touch most of us.

But but but Clinton....but but Obama....”this fiasco” is the responsibility of one person, Trump, who CHOSE to innact a NEW zero tolerance policy, with zero prep, zero coordination, zero plans to track kids, zero plans to reunite them and vastly insufficient places to warehouse kids.

Agents have always separated kids when there is suspicion of trafficking, they aren’t stupid, they are trained to figure this out. No one has a problem with that. But you and I both know that this is not being done for that reason (direct from the mouths of Trump, Kelly and Sessions).

So forceably separating a child from his or her mother for months is now just an “inconvenience”....interesting take on the trauma it causes these children.

No...what is reprehensible is your cavelier attitude towards something you would never tolerate should it happen to your family.

Bu but nothing. Yes they may be fleeing bad conditions but that does not excuse anyone from doing it legally. Are you trying to say that you would be perfectly alright if they came here and started murdering just because of where they came from? No that is just backwards.

Let me see which would be better for a child? To stop at the border crossing station and ask for asylum or drag them across a desert for hundreds of miles? I would say that dragging them across a desert would be along the lines of child abuse. Unless you think torturing a child with bad weather, no water, and little or no food is acceptable. I would not put that past you.

I have no doubt that you would not mind a child suffering a life of abuse and neglect if you got your way with open borders.

As far as what I would tolerate. I would try to make things better. If that did not work I would attempt to make plans with a consulate to immigrate legally. If I could not do that I would stop at a border crossing station and cross there.
I fully believe that a country has a right to expect those entering their country to uphold their laws.

Put you don't want laws. Funny how people like you are confronted with facts they have no reply to always resort to but but to try and deflect.

Just once try using you mind instead of feelings.

I have no desire for open borders. Are you capable of engaging in a discussion without making stiff up about your opponent?

Has it occurred to you that those who are paid to smuggle them across the border don’t tend to drop them off at legal check points?

 

[JoeB131]

No, my point was that we have more than enough people in this country and there is no need to bring in more. In fact shut the damn border down already. We'll do just fine without people coming here, taking our jobs, ruining our neighborhoods, changing our language, and bringing their crime with them. Somehow we will survive.

But that's not what you just... oh, never mind.

Kaz, can you add some stupid to this conversation?

Yes, you mentioned that. I don't pay market wages, my employees work for me even though they could leave for more money. And I'm a shitty boss who no one would want to work for. But my employees won't leave for more money

Again, I suspect your employees are bottom feeders who can't wait to get away from you...

Nobody but a pathetic loser works without health insurance.

 

[Maxdeath]

Bu

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

First let's make it crystal clear that if you are refused entry at the border or are deported, if you are found within U.S. Borders again it is a felony.

Now let's talk about parenting.
I have always considered teaching right and wrong to a child is one of the main responsibilities of being a parent. If you are showing disdain for laws. Right or wrong only applies to others by your actions you are not much of a parent.
Some of these parents are traveling many miles with small children in dangerous conditions. Then they get to the desert southwest and attempt a crossing that kills on average 400 people a year. Does not say much for compassion of the parent. There are better ways then putting a child in such dangers.

There are people who kidnap a child to be sold, I would rather hundreds be inconvenienced then allow one child to spend their life in abuse.

Where was your voice when the last administration was doing the same thing? Where was your voice when Clinton signed the law that made this fiasco?

In short your faux outrage and pretend caring is reprehensible.

Many parents in this group of migrants are fleeing horrendous violence in Central America. But you seem to consider it child abuse for them to try and protect their children by fleeing with them. What good parent would leave their children at the mercy of those gangs? We are far too comfortable, seated in our overstuffed recliners, flipping the remote and passing judgement on people experiencing things that will never touch most of us.

But but but Clinton....but but Obama....”this fiasco” is the responsibility of one person, Trump, who CHOSE to innact a NEW zero tolerance policy, with zero prep, zero coordination, zero plans to track kids, zero plans to reunite them and vastly insufficient places to warehouse kids.

Agents have always separated kids when there is suspicion of trafficking, they aren’t stupid, they are trained to figure this out. No one has a problem with that. But you and I both know that this is not being done for that reason (direct from the mouths of Trump, Kelly and Sessions).

So forceably separating a child from his or her mother for months is now just an “inconvenience”....interesting take on the trauma it causes these children.

No...what is reprehensible is your cavelier attitude towards something you would never tolerate should it happen to your family.

Bu but nothing. Yes they may be fleeing bad conditions but that does not excuse anyone from doing it legally. Are you trying to say that you would be perfectly alright if they came here and started murdering just because of where they came from? No that is just backwards.

Let me see which would be better for a child? To stop at the border crossing station and ask for asylum or drag them across a desert for hundreds of miles? I would say that dragging them across a desert would be along the lines of child abuse. Unless you think torturing a child with bad weather, no water, and little or no food is acceptable. I would not put that past you.

I have no doubt that you would not mind a child suffering a life of abuse and neglect if you got your way with open borders.

As far as what I would tolerate. I would try to make things better. If that did not work I would attempt to make plans with a consulate to immigrate legally. If I could not do that I would stop at a border crossing station and cross there.
I fully believe that a country has a right to expect those entering their country to uphold their laws.

Put you don't want laws. Funny how people like you are confronted with facts they have no reply to always resort to but but to try and deflect.

Just once try using you mind instead of feelings.

I have no desire for open borders. Are you capable of engaging in a discussion without making stiff up about your opponent?

Has it occurred to you that those who are paid to smuggle them across the border don’t tend to drop them off at legal check points?

I made an assumption because first off you have an unhealthy hate of Trump and the things you post point to a feeling of open borders. If I was wrong I apologize.

Rotfl you are correct coyotes do not drop those that they smuggle across the border at check points. The reason you pay them is so that you can avoid the check points. Duh. If you want to enter illegally you pay them or you take your chances that you can find your way around border patrol. They have a very lucrative business not only leading parties but they have other ways. You can get them to give you a ride on a jet ski. For five dollars American you can rent an inner tube to float across the Rio Grand. They will even cram twenty or thirty into a tractor trailer and get you across the border. The trailer is then dropped off and at sometime someone comes along and opens the door. Hopefully those inside are still alive when the door opens. Otherwise they just kick the bodies out.

 

[MaryL]

At this point I say fuck illegals

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yeah, no but....Are you fucking kidding me?!?! The current buzzword of the day is "Machiavellian", by hook or by crook, Mexicans will exploit their children in this like human shields. Or, those quislings traitors otherwise known as "liberals" will make this seem like a humanitarian matter. But, it isn't a humanitarian disaster at all. Kids are often separated from their families every bloody day. Illegal aliens or not, put into protective custody or foster homes (because some parents are totally unfit). That is bad enough, but why all of a sudden the focus on illegals as if it's the fault of the system? People make bad choices all the time , and they often don't care about their children or the consequences.

 

[koshergrl]

No, the system isn't--the Democrats are.

It's Democrats who fight for illegals to be here.
It's Democrats who fight to keep their sanctuary cities and now states.
It's Democrats who are fighting against the wall.
It's Democrats who allow them to have drivers licenses in their states so they can get to the jobs they're not supposed to have.

The system isn't the problem. Democrats are the problem.

It's republicans who gave us SImpson-Mazoli, the law that puts verification on the employer which is like letting the Foxes watch the henhouse.
It's republicans who own the companies that hire them.
It's Republicans who oppose a national ID system.
It's Republicans who have blocked immigration reform for over a decade.

And what is immigration reform? Making laws that benefit the foreigners and a disadvantage to Americans. Of course we're against that. In other words, amnesty. It didn't work in the past and it won't work today.

It's Republicans that own companies? To my knowledge, there are just as many if not more Democrats that own companies as Republicans: Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Cosco's, Starbucks, Martha Stewart just to name a few.

National ID? We used to use drivers licenses as ID's, and then the Democrats started giving them to foreigners and we don't know who is a citizen and who is not. National ID's............from the same group of people fighting against Voter-ID claiming it won't solve any problems and it won't work?????

You are a perfect example of the Party of Excuses.

We need immigration laws that are realistic based on what the nation needs and doesn't need.

First of all we need more people, not less. As a result of improved health care, our country is getting older. Ten thousand Baby Boomers are turning 65 every day. Many of them are retiring and leaving the workforce.

There will be 35.3 million job openings by 2024 compared to 6.8 million today, mostly due to retirement. Combine that with an economy that’s expected to create 9.8 million additional job openings and a U.S. birthrate that is declining, it’s obvious that the U.S. economy will need more workers. If we don't have them, those jobs along with the economic benefits they would bring will go overseas and the US will go into economic decline.

The beliefs that more immigrants will mean more democrats, less jobs, and a shortage of workers is good for the economy is going to prevent any meaningful reform that would solve the worker shortage. In essence, the US is very likely to follow the same disastrous path Japan is following.

What we don't need is more illegal immigrants. This is one thing both republicans and democrats will be able to agree on. With less people attempting to cross the border and more security, illegal entry into the country will be a minor problem long before any wall gets build.

We're talking about illegal aliens, not immigrants, you racist, race baiting dick head. What don't you grasp about that?

You seem to have a problem understanding that our laws that regulated legal immigration are a primary cause of illegal immigration. Our immigration quotas push wait times to 10 years or more and for those that don't have a sponsor it's never. When there is no hope of legal entry, there no reason not to try illegally.

Unfortunately for you, that isn't the case in America. There's always legal entry options.

Unless you're a violent criminal, or a child sex trafficker. Or a terrorist.

 

[Coyote]

Bu

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

First let's make it crystal clear that if you are refused entry at the border or are deported, if you are found within U.S. Borders again it is a felony.

Now let's talk about parenting.
I have always considered teaching right and wrong to a child is one of the main responsibilities of being a parent. If you are showing disdain for laws. Right or wrong only applies to others by your actions you are not much of a parent.
Some of these parents are traveling many miles with small children in dangerous conditions. Then they get to the desert southwest and attempt a crossing that kills on average 400 people a year. Does not say much for compassion of the parent. There are better ways then putting a child in such dangers.

There are people who kidnap a child to be sold, I would rather hundreds be inconvenienced then allow one child to spend their life in abuse.

Where was your voice when the last administration was doing the same thing? Where was your voice when Clinton signed the law that made this fiasco?

In short your faux outrage and pretend caring is reprehensible.

Many parents in this group of migrants are fleeing horrendous violence in Central America. But you seem to consider it child abuse for them to try and protect their children by fleeing with them. What good parent would leave their children at the mercy of those gangs? We are far too comfortable, seated in our overstuffed recliners, flipping the remote and passing judgement on people experiencing things that will never touch most of us.

But but but Clinton....but but Obama....”this fiasco” is the responsibility of one person, Trump, who CHOSE to innact a NEW zero tolerance policy, with zero prep, zero coordination, zero plans to track kids, zero plans to reunite them and vastly insufficient places to warehouse kids.

Agents have always separated kids when there is suspicion of trafficking, they aren’t stupid, they are trained to figure this out. No one has a problem with that. But you and I both know that this is not being done for that reason (direct from the mouths of Trump, Kelly and Sessions).

So forceably separating a child from his or her mother for months is now just an “inconvenience”....interesting take on the trauma it causes these children.

No...what is reprehensible is your cavelier attitude towards something you would never tolerate should it happen to your family.

Bu but nothing. Yes they may be fleeing bad conditions but that does not excuse anyone from doing it legally. Are you trying to say that you would be perfectly alright if they came here and started murdering just because of where they came from? No that is just backwards.

Let me see which would be better for a child? To stop at the border crossing station and ask for asylum or drag them across a desert for hundreds of miles? I would say that dragging them across a desert would be along the lines of child abuse. Unless you think torturing a child with bad weather, no water, and little or no food is acceptable. I would not put that past you.

I have no doubt that you would not mind a child suffering a life of abuse and neglect if you got your way with open borders.

As far as what I would tolerate. I would try to make things better. If that did not work I would attempt to make plans with a consulate to immigrate legally. If I could not do that I would stop at a border crossing station and cross there.
I fully believe that a country has a right to expect those entering their country to uphold their laws.

Put you don't want laws. Funny how people like you are confronted with facts they have no reply to always resort to but but to try and deflect.

Just once try using you mind instead of feelings.

I have no desire for open borders. Are you capable of engaging in a discussion without making stiff up about your opponent?

Has it occurred to you that those who are paid to smuggle them across the border don’t tend to drop them off at legal check points?

I made an assumption because first off you have an unhealthy hate of Trump and the things you post point to a feeling of open borders. If I was wrong I apologize.

Rotfl you are correct coyotes do not drop those that they smuggle across the border at check points. The reason you pay them is so that you can avoid the check points. Duh. If you want to enter illegally you pay them or you take your chances that you can find your way around border patrol. They have a very lucrative business not only leading parties but they have other ways. You can get them to give you a ride on a jet ski. For five dollars American you can rent an inner tube to float across the Rio Grand. They will even cram twenty or thirty into a tractor trailer and get you across the border. The trailer is then dropped off and at sometime someone comes along and opens the door. Hopefully those inside are still alive when the door opens. Otherwise they just kick the bodies out.

Then you really haven’t read my posts. I support good border control. I support legal immigration and the right to seek asylum. I support expedited de portion of those convicted of serious crimes as well as for traffickers. There are many ways to get there without resorting to extreme and inhumane policies. My feelings about Trump are irrelevant because I made this thread about a specific policy, newly innacted that in my view goes to far and is unnecessary to the goal of reducing illegal immigration.

 

[koshergrl]

Bu

First let's make it crystal clear that if you are refused entry at the border or are deported, if you are found within U.S. Borders again it is a felony.

Now let's talk about parenting.
I have always considered teaching right and wrong to a child is one of the main responsibilities of being a parent. If you are showing disdain for laws. Right or wrong only applies to others by your actions you are not much of a parent.
Some of these parents are traveling many miles with small children in dangerous conditions. Then they get to the desert southwest and attempt a crossing that kills on average 400 people a year. Does not say much for compassion of the parent. There are better ways then putting a child in such dangers.

There are people who kidnap a child to be sold, I would rather hundreds be inconvenienced then allow one child to spend their life in abuse.

Where was your voice when the last administration was doing the same thing? Where was your voice when Clinton signed the law that made this fiasco?

In short your faux outrage and pretend caring is reprehensible.

Many parents in this group of migrants are fleeing horrendous violence in Central America. But you seem to consider it child abuse for them to try and protect their children by fleeing with them. What good parent would leave their children at the mercy of those gangs? We are far too comfortable, seated in our overstuffed recliners, flipping the remote and passing judgement on people experiencing things that will never touch most of us.

But but but Clinton....but but Obama....”this fiasco” is the responsibility of one person, Trump, who CHOSE to innact a NEW zero tolerance policy, with zero prep, zero coordination, zero plans to track kids, zero plans to reunite them and vastly insufficient places to warehouse kids.

Agents have always separated kids when there is suspicion of trafficking, they aren’t stupid, they are trained to figure this out. No one has a problem with that. But you and I both know that this is not being done for that reason (direct from the mouths of Trump, Kelly and Sessions).

So forceably separating a child from his or her mother for months is now just an “inconvenience”....interesting take on the trauma it causes these children.

No...what is reprehensible is your cavelier attitude towards something you would never tolerate should it happen to your family.

Bu but nothing. Yes they may be fleeing bad conditions but that does not excuse anyone from doing it legally. Are you trying to say that you would be perfectly alright if they came here and started murdering just because of where they came from? No that is just backwards.

Let me see which would be better for a child? To stop at the border crossing station and ask for asylum or drag them across a desert for hundreds of miles? I would say that dragging them across a desert would be along the lines of child abuse. Unless you think torturing a child with bad weather, no water, and little or no food is acceptable. I would not put that past you.

I have no doubt that you would not mind a child suffering a life of abuse and neglect if you got your way with open borders.

As far as what I would tolerate. I would try to make things better. If that did not work I would attempt to make plans with a consulate to immigrate legally. If I could not do that I would stop at a border crossing station and cross there.
I fully believe that a country has a right to expect those entering their country to uphold their laws.

Put you don't want laws. Funny how people like you are confronted with facts they have no reply to always resort to but but to try and deflect.

Just once try using you mind instead of feelings.

I have no desire for open borders. Are you capable of engaging in a discussion without making stiff up about your opponent?

Has it occurred to you that those who are paid to smuggle them across the border don’t tend to drop them off at legal check points?

I made an assumption because first off you have an unhealthy hate of Trump and the things you post point to a feeling of open borders. If I was wrong I apologize.

Rotfl you are correct coyotes do not drop those that they smuggle across the border at check points. The reason you pay them is so that you can avoid the check points. Duh. If you want to enter illegally you pay them or you take your chances that you can find your way around border patrol. They have a very lucrative business not only leading parties but they have other ways. You can get them to give you a ride on a jet ski. For five dollars American you can rent an inner tube to float across the Rio Grand. They will even cram twenty or thirty into a tractor trailer and get you across the border. The trailer is then dropped off and at sometime someone comes along and opens the door. Hopefully those inside are still alive when the door opens. Otherwise they just kick the bodies out.

Then you really haven’t read my posts. I support good border control. I support legal immigration and the right to seek asylum. I support expedited de portion of those convicted of serious crimes as well as for traffickers. There are many ways to get there without resorting to extreme and inhumane policies. My feelings about Trump are irrelevant because I made this thread about a specific policy, newly innacted that in my view goes to far and is unnecessary to the goal of reducing illegal immigration.

It isn't extreme and inhumane to remove at risk children from abusers and sex traffickers. What about that do you not get? Do you object when child welfare lodges kids they separate from sex offenders or drunk drivers?

I'm sure you don't. Because you know it isn't inhumane. You just want child traffickers to continue unmolested.

 

[Maxdeath]

And my origanal post asking where was your voice when the law that made this necessary still stands. Where was your voice when the last administration was doing this. If you did not call out either of them, if you did not consider them to be inhuman, then you are letting your emotions about Trump cloud your judgement. You are using your hate to try and make a case.

So let us take a look at a family whose parents were drug dealers. Do you make claims that the family should be kept together if the parents are sent to prison for years? That would be not only stupid but inhuman.

Look at the so called family not so long ago from California that locked their children to beds, seldom allowed them to bath, kept them in the house except for small excursions. Did you believe that the parents should have been allowed to remain with their children?

If someone kidnaps a child should the kidnapper and child be held together until after the kidknappers trial? Perhaps allow them to stay together for ever? These people that are sneaking into our country are not bringing paperwork that shows that these are their children, that if they are a single parent that they have the legal right to leave the country with the child. So you advocate just allow them to go on their merry way. The picture of the little girl that was photoshopped in front of Trump was not separated from her mother because they came in at a border checkpoint. Still the father said he had no idea where they were.

Now explain something to me if you will. Why do people that think that pay for jobs is so bad, think that allowing more people that are more then willing to work for lower wages into the U.S. is a good idea? If a person can pay less and get the same job done why would they not only choose to hire someone they have to pay more for but that same person will be after them for higher wages yet?

 

[JoeB131]

It isn't extreme and inhumane to remove at risk children from abusers and sex traffickers. What about that do you not get? Do you object when child welfare lodges kids they separate from sex offenders or drunk drivers?

I'm sure you don't. Because you know it isn't inhumane. You just want child traffickers to continue unmolested.

Except, of course, you guys didn't actually check to see if those kids belonged with those parents, you just threw them into concentration camps until people screamed, and now you can't find who they actually belong to.

 

[kaz]

It think 315 million people is too many already. Ever drive on the highway during the day? It's like rush hour half the time. I would like to see our population down to around 250 at most.

Well, no one is stopping you from offing yourself.

So your argument is we need to knock some people off because we didn't keep up the roads because we were too busy giving tax cuts to billionaires instead of investing in infrastructure like the rest of the world did.

Got it.

No, my point was that we have more than enough people in this country and there is no need to bring in more. In fact shut the damn border down already. We'll do just fine without people coming here, taking our jobs, ruining our neighborhoods, changing our language, and bringing their crime with them. Somehow we will survive.

Well, I'm for shutting the border and cleaning up the mess we have. Then having controlled immigration

I'll meet you half way on that one. But our mess is so large that it will take many years to clean it up. However if we keep letting people in while we're trying to do that is like bailing water out of the boat without fixing the hole.

I definitely agree with that. The left keep offering us the deal of ramping up legal immigration to prove we would do that before doing a damned thing about illegal immigration. As if after we do that they would do a damned thing about illegal immigration.

Racist race baiters like Flopper keep offering us that deal

 

[kaz]

No, my point was that we have more than enough people in this country and there is no need to bring in more. In fact shut the damn border down already. We'll do just fine without people coming here, taking our jobs, ruining our neighborhoods, changing our language, and bringing their crime with them. Somehow we will survive.

But that's not what you just... oh, never mind.

Kaz, can you add some stupid to this conversation?

Yes, you mentioned that. I don't pay market wages, my employees work for me even though they could leave for more money. And I'm a shitty boss who no one would want to work for. But my employees won't leave for more money

Again, I suspect your employees are bottom feeders who can't wait to get away from you...

Nobody but a pathetic loser works without health insurance.

Joe: Your employees are bottom feeders. You should pay your employees more.

Why would I pay my employees more if they are as you called them "bottom feeders?"

 

[kaz]

Bu

First let's make it crystal clear that if you are refused entry at the border or are deported, if you are found within U.S. Borders again it is a felony.

Now let's talk about parenting.
I have always considered teaching right and wrong to a child is one of the main responsibilities of being a parent. If you are showing disdain for laws. Right or wrong only applies to others by your actions you are not much of a parent.
Some of these parents are traveling many miles with small children in dangerous conditions. Then they get to the desert southwest and attempt a crossing that kills on average 400 people a year. Does not say much for compassion of the parent. There are better ways then putting a child in such dangers.

There are people who kidnap a child to be sold, I would rather hundreds be inconvenienced then allow one child to spend their life in abuse.

Where was your voice when the last administration was doing the same thing? Where was your voice when Clinton signed the law that made this fiasco?

In short your faux outrage and pretend caring is reprehensible.

Many parents in this group of migrants are fleeing horrendous violence in Central America. But you seem to consider it child abuse for them to try and protect their children by fleeing with them. What good parent would leave their children at the mercy of those gangs? We are far too comfortable, seated in our overstuffed recliners, flipping the remote and passing judgement on people experiencing things that will never touch most of us.

But but but Clinton....but but Obama....”this fiasco” is the responsibility of one person, Trump, who CHOSE to innact a NEW zero tolerance policy, with zero prep, zero coordination, zero plans to track kids, zero plans to reunite them and vastly insufficient places to warehouse kids.

Agents have always separated kids when there is suspicion of trafficking, they aren’t stupid, they are trained to figure this out. No one has a problem with that. But you and I both know that this is not being done for that reason (direct from the mouths of Trump, Kelly and Sessions).

So forceably separating a child from his or her mother for months is now just an “inconvenience”....interesting take on the trauma it causes these children.

No...what is reprehensible is your cavelier attitude towards something you would never tolerate should it happen to your family.

Bu but nothing. Yes they may be fleeing bad conditions but that does not excuse anyone from doing it legally. Are you trying to say that you would be perfectly alright if they came here and started murdering just because of where they came from? No that is just backwards.

Let me see which would be better for a child? To stop at the border crossing station and ask for asylum or drag them across a desert for hundreds of miles? I would say that dragging them across a desert would be along the lines of child abuse. Unless you think torturing a child with bad weather, no water, and little or no food is acceptable. I would not put that past you.

I have no doubt that you would not mind a child suffering a life of abuse and neglect if you got your way with open borders.

As far as what I would tolerate. I would try to make things better. If that did not work I would attempt to make plans with a consulate to immigrate legally. If I could not do that I would stop at a border crossing station and cross there.
I fully believe that a country has a right to expect those entering their country to uphold their laws.

Put you don't want laws. Funny how people like you are confronted with facts they have no reply to always resort to but but to try and deflect.

Just once try using you mind instead of feelings.

I have no desire for open borders. Are you capable of engaging in a discussion without making stiff up about your opponent?

Has it occurred to you that those who are paid to smuggle them across the border don’t tend to drop them off at legal check points?

I made an assumption because first off you have an unhealthy hate of Trump and the things you post point to a feeling of open borders. If I was wrong I apologize.

Rotfl you are correct coyotes do not drop those that they smuggle across the border at check points. The reason you pay them is so that you can avoid the check points. Duh. If you want to enter illegally you pay them or you take your chances that you can find your way around border patrol. They have a very lucrative business not only leading parties but they have other ways. You can get them to give you a ride on a jet ski. For five dollars American you can rent an inner tube to float across the Rio Grand. They will even cram twenty or thirty into a tractor trailer and get you across the border. The trailer is then dropped off and at sometime someone comes along and opens the door. Hopefully those inside are still alive when the door opens. Otherwise they just kick the bodies out.

Then you really haven’t read my posts. I support good border control. I support legal immigration and the right to seek asylum. I support expedited de portion of those convicted of serious crimes as well as for traffickers. There are many ways to get there without resorting to extreme and inhumane policies. My feelings about Trump are irrelevant because I made this thread about a specific policy, newly innacted that in my view goes to far and is unnecessary to the goal of reducing illegal immigration.

Gotcha. You fight every effort to control our border because you support good border control. You're a terrible liar

 

[OODA_Loop]

Except, of course, you guys didn't actually check to see if those kids belonged with those parents, you just threw them into concentration camps until people screamed, and now you can't find who they actually belong to.

Lacking certificates of live birth and state issued photo ID there is no practical way to check who they belong to.....at arrest or later,

 

[pismoe]

just a general comment but the talk about LEGAL or ILLEGAL is foolish . Its government and special interests that makes and spins and twists and defines the difference between legal and illegal as they push for what they want . As may have been mentioned, USA Census was 310 million persons in the USA in 2010 and that doesn't include illegals . As perspective, USA census population in 1970 was about 210 million . ------------------ i don't understand why there is a need or a wish for more people in the USA . ------------- just a comment .

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It think 315 million people is too many already. Ever drive on the highway during the day? It's like rush hour half the time. I would like to see our population down to around 250 at most.

Well, no one is stopping you from offing yourself.

So your argument is we need to knock some people off because we didn't keep up the roads because we were too busy giving tax cuts to billionaires instead of investing in infrastructure like the rest of the world did.

Got it.

No, my point was that we have more than enough people in this country and there is no need to bring in more. In fact shut the damn border down already. We'll do just fine without people coming here, taking our jobs, ruining our neighborhoods, changing our language, and bringing their crime with them. Somehow we will survive.

Well, I'm for shutting the border and cleaning up the mess we have. Then having controlled immigration

I'll meet you half way on that one. But our mess is so large that it will take many years to clean it up. However if we keep letting people in while we're trying to do that is like bailing water out of the boat without fixing the hole.

I definitely agree with that. The left keep offering us the deal of ramping up legal immigration to prove we would do that before doing a damned thing about illegal immigration. As if after we do that they would do a damned thing about illegal immigration.

Racist race baiters like Flopper keep offering us that deal

Except if the deal includes a wall, because a wall scares the hell out of the left. Hiding behind their own lie that a wall won't work (as if we tried it before) what they really fear is how good it will work.