What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[OKTexas]

If you have a Masters in anything, then I am the Pope.

University of Rochester 1990 plus I read history all the time...

If only you could retain some of it. LOL


.

 

[protectionist]

Let's have a link 2 Hillary wanting open immigration... You believe so much crap. Typical GOP voter.

Are you for real ?

Hillary Clinton: U.S. should take 65,000 Syrian refugees

Clinton Says Taking in Refugees Is 'Who We Are as Americans'

 

[protectionist]

It is perplexing. They haven't won a popular vote since 2004 and haven't won a popular vote when they were not the incumbent since 1988. As Hispanic immigrants move from the South up into the northern reaches of the country (Where "we don't get many Hispanics" as the INS guy put it before he detained two women in Montana if memory serves), the carefully gerrymandered districts become vulnerable.

Whether the Democrats can hold on to the Hispanic vote is another question all together--nobody snatches defeat from the jaws of victory like a DEM. But the GOP is not doing itself any favors.

Trump won the AMERICAN popular vote. Illegals are going home. 2020 is >> $ MORE YEARS.

 

[protectionist]

It is reported that 1 out of 4 AMERICAN kids are Hispanic. In the future, how do you think they'll vote?

GOP

 

[protectionist]

Yes the unemployment rate continues to go down icaramba. I'm talking about 35 years of GOP give away to the rich and cuts for the rest. This is GOP rule at work.


Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105% – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 = 96%
2007 = 92%

A 13% drop since 1980

2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

An increase of 16% since Reagan.

3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

A 12.3% drop after Reagan.

4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

A 5.6 times increase.

6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 = 6%
1990 = 3%
2000 = 2%

A 10% Decrease.

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = Federated Prudent Bear Fund (A): Overview
4 = The Fed - Financial Accounts of the United States - Z.1 - Current Release
5/6 = http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts

These stats are old and don't include Trump era. Example > the Business Insider link is from 2010. Guess who was POTUS then.

Half of the links aren't functional. Others don't connect to what you wrote.

 

[francoHFW]

If you have a Masters in anything, then I am the Pope.

University of Rochester 1990 plus I read history all the time...

If only you could retain some of it. LOL


.

At the moment it comes down to knowing what facts are and which is propaganda, GOP propaganda of course. Did you notice no one in the world agrees with your BS?

 

[Slyhunter]

True asylum seeking reform is something I do support.

Why we need to limit immigration to a trickle.

Our level of living will degrade the more immigrants we allow in. Like Pouring water into a bottle of alcohol. A little doesn't hurt.

 

[francoHFW]

Yes the unemployment rate continues to go down icaramba. I'm talking about 35 years of GOP give away to the rich and cuts for the rest. This is GOP rule at work.


Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105% – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 = 96%
2007 = 92%

A 13% drop since 1980

2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

An increase of 16% since Reagan.

3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

A 12.3% drop after Reagan.

4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

A 5.6 times increase.

6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 = 6%
1990 = 3%
2000 = 2%

A 10% Decrease.

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = Federated Prudent Bear Fund (A): Overview
4 = The Fed - Financial Accounts of the United States - Z.1 - Current Release
5/6 = http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts

These stats are old and don't include Trump era. Example > the Business Insider link is from 2010. Guess who was POTUS then.

Half of the links aren't functional. Others don't connect to what you wrote.

Look at number 3 and number 4. These are facts and things just keep getting worse with GOP tax rates and policy. Trump hasn't done anything except another giveaway to the rich. Unemployment have been improving since 2010.

 

[francoHFW]

True asylum seeking reform is something I do support.

Why we need to limit immigration to a trickle.

Our level of living will degrade the more immigrants we allow in. Like Pouring water into a bottle of alcohol. A little doesn't hurt.

I agree too damn many people... GOP ideas won't work. SSID card with chip for all.

 

[francoHFW]

Let's have a link 2 Hillary wanting open immigration... You believe so much crap. Typical GOP voter.

Are you for real ?

View attachment 197277

Hillary Clinton: U.S. should take 65,000 Syrian refugees

Clinton Says Taking in Refugees Is 'Who We Are as Americans'

Your boy bush caused the wreck of the Middle East. Refugees are as scary as kittens. Europe took 5 million and no problem. They just want to go back to Syria. Great job GOP. The World depression of 2008 was great too. Republicans suck. Brainwashed.

 

[protectionist]

Look at number 3 and number 4. These are facts and things just keep getting worse with GOP tax rates and policy. Trump hasn't done anything except another giveaway to the rich. Unemployment have been improving since 2010.

Look at them, why ? They are all old, from past decades of globalist GOP. The GOP is not that anymore. It is NATIONALIST now - a completely different thing.

And Trump DID do something, he's has brought the economy back from a downslide of Obama's last year. Even Democrats admit the economy has been booming, and Republicans have the momentum going into the 2018 elections.

There has been a dramatic change in the generic polling for Congress. Republicans now lead Democrats by 1 point, according to Reuters. Moreover, there has been a dramatic improvement in President Trump’s approval rating, with the Real Clear Average now up to 44 percent.

 

[francoHFW]

Look at number 3 and number 4. These are facts and things just keep getting worse with GOP tax rates and policy. Trump hasn't done anything except another giveaway to the rich. Unemployment have been improving since 2010.

Look at them, why ? They are all old, from past decades of globalist GOP. The GOP is not that anymore. It is NATIONALIST now - a completely different thing.

And Trump DID do something, he's has brought the economy back from a downslide of Obama's last year. Even Democrats admit the economy has been booming, and Republicans have the momentum going into the 2018 elections.

There has been a dramatic change in the generic polling for Congress. Republicans now lead Democrats by 1 point, according to Reuters. Moreover, there has been a dramatic improvement in President Trump’s approval rating, with the Real Clear Average now up to 44 percent.

I hope you're right... We shall see... But so far no change from George bush in results. Globalism is not a conspiracy, it's just natural. But we need investment in training and education and our people to get the good jobs Germany Etc now are. Just more dumb GOP stuff LOL...

 

[francoHFW]

The GOP doesn't give a damn except around elections and during one of their corrupt economic meltdowns. The Democrats want a solution. 2010 immigration bill with good SSID card ends this crap. Nothing else does. You brainwashed morons think the Democrats want open borders. Incredible idiocy. Hillary was talking about trade only someday. Typical of how you know absolutely nothing.

I challenge you to show how a Social Security card (probably easily falsified) does ANYTHING. (other than allow illegals to stay here and VOTE for Democrats)

Also, you really think anybody is going to think that Democrats don't want open borders, when they vote 99% for sanctuary cities ? Is there a doctor in the house ?

The problem can be solved with computer chips. Sanctuary cities mean that illegal people report crimes, get car insurance and licenses d u h. We have to explain everything to you dupes... Change Channel

 

[protectionist]

The problem can be solved with computer chips. Sanctuary cities mean that illegal people report crimes, get car insurance and licenses d u h. We have to explain everything to you dupes... Change Channel

You're not "explaining", you're bullshitting, to a high degree. A computer chip doesn't show that somebody is eligible to vote, I've already explained to you what does do that.

Sanctuary cities protect illegal aliens from deortation so they can remain here and VOTE for Democrats. Duh!

 

[protectionist]

I hope you're right... We shall see... But so far no change from George bush in results. Globalism is not a conspiracy, it's just natural. But we need investment in training and education and our people to get the good jobs Germany Etc now are. Just more dumb GOP stuff LOL...

whocares about George Bush.? I hathim. he'sn immirationist, a Muslim ass-kisser, and a globalist fool.

 

[protectionist]

Your boy bush caused the wreck of the Middle East. Refugees are as scary as kittens. Europe took 5 million and no problem. They just want to go back to Syria. Great job GOP. The World depression of 2008 was great too. Republicans suck. Brainwashed.

"no problem" ? Whaaaaat ??? Europe is a trn wreck from those goofball Mslims they took. Oh that;s right - you watch CNN, I forgot.

And Bush can kiss my ass.

 

[Coyote]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

This post is idiotic...not sure where to start. Obama policies in place? Safety of children from human sex traffickers? Drugs?

The policy in question here: 100% seperation of children at the border.

What Obama did is irrelevant, that wasn’t the Administration policy then, it is new. Strike one.

Human trafficking is a valid concern and agents have always been able to seperate children if they suspect it. No argument from me there. However, that is not the reason they are in acting this policy. Kelly directly stated it was to be a deterrent. John Kelly: It's not 'cruel' to separate families at the border — children will be 'put into foster care or whatever'
Strike 2.

Drugs....not sure how that is relevant unless the individuals are carrying caught carrying drugs, then of it isn’t just illegal immigration, it is drug trafficking, which again does not require removing children of all. Strike 3.

 

[Coyote]

Hillary Advocates Wide Open Borders – Says World has a “RIGHT” to Immigrate to the USA
Breaking News By TruthFeedNews September 23, 2016

"Shortly after Trump’s speech, the Clinton campaign in Ohio tweeted out the story of a Libyan who came to the Unites States on a student visa in 1994, was not able to renew it, and simply stayed in the country illegally. He didn’t exactly live in the shadows, settling in Dayton and founding the Islamic Federation of Ohio and the Islamic Center for Peace. After two decades, he received permanent residency in 2015. In the story, headlined “Donald Trump would have kicked my family out of the country,” the man’s son, whose name was given as Mohamed G., wrote, “There was no way that I could let a person that disrespects my father and other immigrants win the White House.”

On Monday, the Clinton Ohio campaign tweeted Mohamed G.’s picture with Trump’s quote, “No one has the right to immigrate to this country.” The campaign added the comment: “We disagree.”"

That isn’t calling for open borders. Talk about distortion.

 

[Kondor3]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

This post is idiotic...not sure where to start. Obama policies in place? Safety of children from human sex traffickers? Drugs?

The policy in question here: 100% seperation of children at the border.

What Obama did is irrelevant, that wasn’t the Administration policy then, it is new. Strike one.

Human trafficking is a valid concern and agents have always been able to seperate children if they suspect it. No argument from me there. However, that is not the reason they are in acting this policy. Kelly directly stated it was to be a deterrent. John Kelly: It's not 'cruel' to separate families at the border — children will be 'put into foster care or whatever'
Strike 2.

Drugs....not sure how that is relevant unless the individuals are carrying caught carrying drugs, then of it isn’t just illegal immigration, it is drug trafficking, which again does not require removing children of all. Strike 3.

The present administration's approach to separating Illegal Alien adults from children during criminal processing is both in compliance with US law and entirely correct.

Those not wishing to expose their children to such separation should not cross onto (nor overstay upon) United States soil without our express prior consent.

"...Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time... no, no... don't do it..."

 

[Coyote]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

This post is idiotic...not sure where to start. Obama policies in place? Safety of children from human sex traffickers? Drugs?

The policy in question here: 100% seperation of children at the border.

What Obama did is irrelevant, that wasn’t the Administration policy then, it is new. Strike one.

Human trafficking is a valid concern and agents have always been able to seperate children if they suspect it. No argument from me there. However, that is not the reason they are in acting this policy. Kelly directly stated it was to be a deterrent. John Kelly: It's not 'cruel' to separate families at the border — children will be 'put into foster care or whatever'
Strike 2.

Drugs....not sure how that is relevant unless the individuals are carrying caught carrying drugs, then of it isn’t just illegal immigration, it is drug trafficking, which again does not require removing children of all. Strike 3.

The present administration's approach to separating Illegal Alien adults from children during criminal processing is both in compliance with US law and entirely correct.

Those not wishing to expose their children to such separation should not cross onto (nor overstay upon) United States soil without our express prior consent.

"...Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time... no, no... don't do it..."

Agencies have always been able to exercise discretion, Trump included.