What if corporations aren't evil?

[Asclepias]

Yup - The lower pesticide & herbicide use is why I have no problem with GMO crops. I am only pissed about the Romney/Monsanto dirty political business tactics fleecing citizens. Monsanto's monopoly extortion tactics is why I & many other farmers only plant Stine seeds now.

Actually GMO's foster higher pesticide and herbicide use. Its interesting to me that Monsanto also manufactures the herbicide Roundup.

Center for Food Safety | Issues | rbGH | GENETICALLY MODIFIED (GM) CROPS INCREASE PESTICIDE USE AND FAIL TO ALLEVIATE POVERTY, REVEALS NEW REPORT

Farmers have been using herbicides since they were first discovered because they discovered it is easier to spray a field to kill the weeds than to walk through it every day and pull them out by the roots.

Its obvious you are having an extremely difficult time in connecting the dots. Let me assist you. You do realize herbicides are poisonous correct? How would you like a nice healthy dose of roundup everytime you eat GM foods? Couple that with with the incentive for farmers to use monoculture which depletes the soil of nutrients in the case of some crops and we can wind up with sterile ground incapable of supporting anything other than super weeds that are increasingly immune to the herbicides. I wonder who profits from all the purchases of Roundup used to kill weeds in GM crops raping the earth of nutrients? Looks like Monsanto is getting paid twice on the deal to me.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/10/19/herbicide-resistant-super-weeds-increasingly-plaguing-farmers

When "Roundup ready" crops became popular in the mid 1990s, farmers were enamored with the genetically-modified seeds built to withstand glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup, the most popular commercial weed killer. But after years of constant exposure, certain invasive plants have also developed a resistance, leading farmers to use more of the chemical. In some cases, the weeds have grown completely tolerant to the chemical, giving farmers fits.

"I was talking to a farmer from Arkansas and he's got weeds that are now eight feet tall, they're the diameter of my wrist, and they can stop a combine in its tracks," says Gary Hirshberg, chairman of Just Label It, an organization fighting for mandatory labeling of genetically modified foods. "The only way they can stop them is to go in there with machetes and hack them out."

 

[Pogo]

Okay, y'all have convinced me. Corporations are evil. I need the government to protect me from them.

Not only do we already have that but the really good news is they work hand in glove; when you've put some time in with Monsanto you can come run the Ag Department that regulates your former employer. Then you can go back and hook up your old friends with your new ones.

One stop shopping. Ain't it grand?

(Note: above is sarcasm)

Why do some of y'all continue to pretend this is not the way it works?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually GMO's foster higher pesticide and herbicide use. Its interesting to me that Monsanto also manufactures the herbicide Roundup.

Center for Food Safety | Issues | rbGH | GENETICALLY MODIFIED (GM) CROPS INCREASE PESTICIDE USE AND FAIL TO ALLEVIATE POVERTY, REVEALS NEW REPORT

Farmers have been using herbicides since they were first discovered because they discovered it is easier to spray a field to kill the weeds than to walk through it every day and pull them out by the roots.

Its obvious you are having an extremely difficult time in connecting the dots. Let me assist you. You do realize herbicides are poisonous correct? How would you like a nice healthy dose of roundup everytime you eat GM foods? Couple that with with the incentive for farmers to use monoculture which depletes the soil of nutrients in the case of some crops and we can wind up with sterile ground incapable of supporting anything other than super weeds that are increasingly immune to the herbicides. I wonder who profits from all the purchases of Roundup used to kill weeds in GM crops raping the earth of nutrients? Looks like Monsanto is getting paid twice on the deal to me.

Herbicide-Resistant 'Super Weeds' Increasingly Plaguing Farmers - US News

When "Roundup ready" crops became popular in the mid 1990s, farmers were enamored with the genetically-modified seeds built to withstand glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup, the most popular commercial weed killer. But after years of constant exposure, certain invasive plants have also developed a resistance, leading farmers to use more of the chemical. In some cases, the weeds have grown completely tolerant to the chemical, giving farmers fits.

"I was talking to a farmer from Arkansas and he's got weeds that are now eight feet tall, they're the diameter of my wrist, and they can stop a combine in its tracks," says Gary Hirshberg, chairman of Just Label It, an organization fighting for mandatory labeling of genetically modified foods. "The only way they can stop them is to go in there with machetes and hack them out."

Herbicide are poisons? Really? Do yourself a favor, wen you read the next chapter of that book and discover that pesticides are also poisons remember that I have known that for longer than you have been alive.

For the record, every single time you bite into a raw vegetable or fruit that has not been properly washed you are taking a bit of poison into your system, it is inevitable. Even if you eat organic grown food you will end up eating poisons.

Apples top list for pesticide contamination in 2014 - Health - CBC News

Are you going to argue that government mandated spraying is part a Monsanto plot to take over the apple industry?

 

[Asclepias]

Farmers have been using herbicides since they were first discovered because they discovered it is easier to spray a field to kill the weeds than to walk through it every day and pull them out by the roots.

Its obvious you are having an extremely difficult time in connecting the dots. Let me assist you. You do realize herbicides are poisonous correct? How would you like a nice healthy dose of roundup everytime you eat GM foods? Couple that with with the incentive for farmers to use monoculture which depletes the soil of nutrients in the case of some crops and we can wind up with sterile ground incapable of supporting anything other than super weeds that are increasingly immune to the herbicides. I wonder who profits from all the purchases of Roundup used to kill weeds in GM crops raping the earth of nutrients? Looks like Monsanto is getting paid twice on the deal to me.

Herbicide-Resistant 'Super Weeds' Increasingly Plaguing Farmers - US News

When "Roundup ready" crops became popular in the mid 1990s, farmers were enamored with the genetically-modified seeds built to withstand glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup, the most popular commercial weed killer. But after years of constant exposure, certain invasive plants have also developed a resistance, leading farmers to use more of the chemical. In some cases, the weeds have grown completely tolerant to the chemical, giving farmers fits.

"I was talking to a farmer from Arkansas and he's got weeds that are now eight feet tall, they're the diameter of my wrist, and they can stop a combine in its tracks," says Gary Hirshberg, chairman of Just Label It, an organization fighting for mandatory labeling of genetically modified foods. "The only way they can stop them is to go in there with machetes and hack them out."

Herbicide are poisons? Really? Do yourself a favor, wen you read the next chapter of that book and discover that pesticides are also poisons remember that I have known that for longer than you have been alive.

For the record, every single time you bite into a raw vegetable or fruit that has not been properly washed you are taking a bit of poison into your system, it is inevitable. Even if you eat organic grown food you will end up eating poisons.

Apples top list for pesticide contamination in 2014 - Health - CBC News

Are you going to argue that government mandated spraying is part a Monsanto plot to take over the apple industry?

Who said pesticides were not poisons? I know I didn't. I grow my own vegetables so I dont worry about that stuff.

My point was that companies unchecked do all sorts of things to make the almighty dollar. In this case Monsanto is creating 2 income streams at your expense. I would not be surprised if they also have some ownership in a company that provides some kind of medication for whatever their practices may give you.

Your massive deflection was very amusing though.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Its obvious you are having an extremely difficult time in connecting the dots. Let me assist you. You do realize herbicides are poisonous correct? How would you like a nice healthy dose of roundup everytime you eat GM foods? Couple that with with the incentive for farmers to use monoculture which depletes the soil of nutrients in the case of some crops and we can wind up with sterile ground incapable of supporting anything other than super weeds that are increasingly immune to the herbicides. I wonder who profits from all the purchases of Roundup used to kill weeds in GM crops raping the earth of nutrients? Looks like Monsanto is getting paid twice on the deal to me.

Herbicide-Resistant 'Super Weeds' Increasingly Plaguing Farmers - US News

Herbicide are poisons? Really? Do yourself a favor, wen you read the next chapter of that book and discover that pesticides are also poisons remember that I have known that for longer than you have been alive.

For the record, every single time you bite into a raw vegetable or fruit that has not been properly washed you are taking a bit of poison into your system, it is inevitable. Even if you eat organic grown food you will end up eating poisons.

Apples top list for pesticide contamination in 2014 - Health - CBC News

Are you going to argue that government mandated spraying is part a Monsanto plot to take over the apple industry?

Who said pesticides were not poisons? I know I didn't. I grow my own vegetables so I dont worry about that stuff.

My point was that companies unchecked do all sorts of things to make the almighty dollar. In this case Monsanto is creating 2 income streams at your expense. I would not be surprised if they also have some ownership in a company that provides some kind of medication for whatever their practices may give you.

Your massive deflection was very amusing though.

Your point was you didn't read the OP?

In an age when we are trying to get corporations to become better corporate citizens it seems attacking one that is at least making an attempt to not be completely evil is counterproductive.

IS that because it is so much easier to jump on the anti Monsanto bandwagon than to actually do some research and provide actual fact to back up your premise? After all, that is what the CDZ is supposed to be about, isn't it? Because, frankly, herbicide resident weeds sounds like the result of misuse of herbicides by lazy farmers. Would you like me to ask a guy I know that actually farms cotton why he doesn't have those weeds all over his property, despite the fact that he lives in the area where they are running rampant?

Alternatively, you could provide evidence that Monsanto recommends over spraying with Roundup. That should be pretty easy since the label actually says that is should be sprayed only once a year.

Now, unless I missed something, your point was that you want to blame Monsanto for evolution, idiots that can't read, and your lack of willingness to read. Did I leave anything out?

 

[KissMy]

IS that because it is so much easier to jump on the anti Monsanto bandwagon than to actually do some research and provide actual fact to back up your premise? After all, that is what the CDZ is supposed to be about, isn't it? Because, frankly, herbicide resident weeds sounds like the result of misuse of herbicides by lazy farmers. Would you like me to ask a guy I know that actually farms cotton why he doesn't have those weeds all over his property, despite the fact that he lives in the area where they are running rampant?

Alternatively, you could provide evidence that Monsanto recommends over spraying with Roundup. That should be pretty easy since the label actually says that is should be sprayed only once a year.

Now, unless I missed something, your point was that you want to blame Monsanto for evolution, idiots that can't read, and your lack of willingness to read. Did I leave anything out?

It's not the farmers fault. The glyphosate used to work great at any time. Now the mutated super weeds have to be sprayed at the right growth stage at the right time of day. Toying around with small plots is nothing like spraying thousands of acres. It takes all week to spray the field, so hitting all the weeds at the right stage & time of day is nearly impossible.

 

[Asclepias]

Herbicide are poisons? Really? Do yourself a favor, wen you read the next chapter of that book and discover that pesticides are also poisons remember that I have known that for longer than you have been alive.

For the record, every single time you bite into a raw vegetable or fruit that has not been properly washed you are taking a bit of poison into your system, it is inevitable. Even if you eat organic grown food you will end up eating poisons.

Apples top list for pesticide contamination in 2014 - Health - CBC News

Are you going to argue that government mandated spraying is part a Monsanto plot to take over the apple industry?

Who said pesticides were not poisons? I know I didn't. I grow my own vegetables so I dont worry about that stuff.

My point was that companies unchecked do all sorts of things to make the almighty dollar. In this case Monsanto is creating 2 income streams at your expense. I would not be surprised if they also have some ownership in a company that provides some kind of medication for whatever their practices may give you.

Your massive deflection was very amusing though.

Your point was you didn't read the OP?

In an age when we are trying to get corporations to become better corporate citizens it seems attacking one that is at least making an attempt to not be completely evil is counterproductive.

IS that because it is so much easier to jump on the anti Monsanto bandwagon than to actually do some research and provide actual fact to back up your premise? After all, that is what the CDZ is supposed to be about, isn't it? Because, frankly, herbicide resident weeds sounds like the result of misuse of herbicides by lazy farmers. Would you like me to ask a guy I know that actually farms cotton why he doesn't have those weeds all over his property, despite the fact that he lives in the area where they are running rampant?

Alternatively, you could provide evidence that Monsanto recommends over spraying with Roundup. That should be pretty easy since the label actually says that is should be sprayed only once a year.

Now, unless I missed something, your point was that you want to blame Monsanto for evolution, idiots that can't read, and your lack of willingness to read. Did I leave anything out?

Yes you did miss something. You missed my point. I dont have to provide proof that they recommend spraying. What you want me to provide is a deflection once again from the point. They provided the GM roundup proof crop seeds. Any idiot can follow the progression from there. The farmers will spray specifically using roundup to get rid of weeds. Now that the superweeds have emerged more roundup will be used to kill the increasingly resistant weeds. No company on earth is going to tell you to keep spraying because watchdog groups will be crawling all over them. They know that you are in the habit and most likely you will use their product. Dont you know anything about product marketing and consumer psychology?

Naive people like you are their dream consumers. You have not the slightest clue what they are doing to you at all. Lets make it simple for you. You buy their seed. The cash register rings. You buy their roundup. Cha ching. The 2 are intertwined so they make money on both ends of the deal. I cant possibly make it any clearer for you.

 

[FA_Q2]

Okay, y'all have convinced me. Corporations are evil. I need the government to protect me from them.

Not only do we already have that but the really good news is they work hand in glove; when you've put some time in with Monsanto you can come run the Ag Department that regulates your former employer. Then you can go back and hook up your old friends with your new ones.

One stop shopping. Ain't it grand?

(Note: above is sarcasm)

Why do some of y'all continue to pretend this is not the way it works?

Who pretends that? You and those that think like you are the ones always demand ting that grater and grater government control is not only necessary but so much better than the alternative. now, here you are, admitting that it is not.

Precisely because that is the way that it works is the underlying problem with so much government involvement into the commercial sector. All it does is empower the big over the small with regulations that they can afford to weather or buy their way out of where the competition cannot.

Its not that the company is 'evil.' Rather it is the fact that the government power ultimately corrupts those that gain it and that is exactly what the companies are trying to do. After all, we have created a system where the ONLY way to be profitable is with government collusion.

 

[FA_Q2]

You keep missing the point that the government can be voted out. Inherently its more trustworthy than an entity you have no control over. The fact that the government can be voted out should tell you the point is you trust no entity you lack any control over.

The interesting point that YOU miss is the fact that you have COMPLETE control over a corporation where you have far less power over the government. you seem to think that the ability to vote again 4 years after the last election somehow confers this awesome oversight of the government but that the simple fact that you can stop purchasing a product right now and the corporation ceases to exist confers no power to you at all.

That is completely asinine.

We have ultimate control over companies at all times. not only can we obliterate them by simply not purchasing their products but we may also get that exact same service or product from their competitor. What about the government? Just try and stop paying them and see what happens.

This idea that companies have some major power over us all is the most convoluted and confusing sentiment that people hold these days. YOU have the money and that means YOU have the power.

Sorry FQ but those things in bold are laughably insane. Corporations exist at the pleasure of the people in theory only. In practice, you go organize a boycott because you don't like Coca-Cola. Rotsa ruck. Corporatia controls the government and will use it as its tool to thrive up to and including its military. Unless we somehow gain mind control over millions of consumers we have zero power over it. We have created an oligarchy instead of a royalty but the effect is the same. And that oligarchy has plenty of loyalists, which are as impenetrable as that boycott.

Government? A puppet show. We can play with the voting machine toy and pretend we're electing a puppet who, this time for sure, is gonna go clean the place up -- but it's still a puppet, and to believe that its wearing of a red or blue costume is going to make a damn bit of difference is as illusory as the illusion that we have "control" over Corporatia.

Sorry but your bold above strikes me as acutely naïve.

Of course it does. Why bother voting then Pogo? It seems that you think there is nothing that you influence at all. I guess that can serve to lessen the load on your consciousnesses when you do nothing to actually address the problems but the real tragedy here is that the only reason that we do not see real results is because of the apathy that you are displaying right here. It is a fact that as long as you demand that you cannot change anything - you simply will not.

If you think that your vote has no influence then it will not. If you don't think that your purchases do not have influence then they will not. There is little point in explaining the painfully obvious to someone that has already given up their free will. Continue on thinking that you are powerless - the millions of people that are exactly like you are the sole thing that can destroy this notion - not the corporations or the crony politicians. They only exist as an extension of the very attitude that you are projecting. It is sad that you can look at the symptoms and see the problems but completely miss the actual disease. What a tragedy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who said pesticides were not poisons? I know I didn't. I grow my own vegetables so I dont worry about that stuff.

My point was that companies unchecked do all sorts of things to make the almighty dollar. In this case Monsanto is creating 2 income streams at your expense. I would not be surprised if they also have some ownership in a company that provides some kind of medication for whatever their practices may give you.

Your massive deflection was very amusing though.

Your point was you didn't read the OP?

In an age when we are trying to get corporations to become better corporate citizens it seems attacking one that is at least making an attempt to not be completely evil is counterproductive.

IS that because it is so much easier to jump on the anti Monsanto bandwagon than to actually do some research and provide actual fact to back up your premise? After all, that is what the CDZ is supposed to be about, isn't it? Because, frankly, herbicide resident weeds sounds like the result of misuse of herbicides by lazy farmers. Would you like me to ask a guy I know that actually farms cotton why he doesn't have those weeds all over his property, despite the fact that he lives in the area where they are running rampant?

Alternatively, you could provide evidence that Monsanto recommends over spraying with Roundup. That should be pretty easy since the label actually says that is should be sprayed only once a year.

Now, unless I missed something, your point was that you want to blame Monsanto for evolution, idiots that can't read, and your lack of willingness to read. Did I leave anything out?

Yes you did miss something. You missed my point. I dont have to provide proof that they recommend spraying. What you want me to provide is a deflection once again from the point. They provided the GM roundup proof crop seeds. Any idiot can follow the progression from there. The farmers will spray specifically using roundup to get rid of weeds. Now that the superweeds have emerged more roundup will be used to kill the increasingly resistant weeds. No company on earth is going to tell you to keep spraying because watchdog groups will be crawling all over them. They know that you are in the habit and most likely you will use their product. Dont you know anything about product marketing and consumer psychology?

Naive people like you are their dream consumers. You have not the slightest clue what they are doing to you at all. Lets make it simple for you. You buy their seed. The cash register rings. You buy their roundup. Cha ching. The 2 are intertwined so they make money on both ends of the deal. I cant possibly make it any clearer for you.

Wrong.

What I want you to do is actually debate the topic, which is why I put this thread in the Clean Debate Zone. Making wild accusations, and then crying when the other guy asks you to defend them, is not debating it is crying. If you want to cry you have plenty of places to do so, if you want to debate, bring on some arguments and defend them with facts.

 

[Pogo]

Okay, y'all have convinced me. Corporations are evil. I need the government to protect me from them.

Not only do we already have that but the really good news is they work hand in glove; when you've put some time in with Monsanto you can come run the Ag Department that regulates your former employer. Then you can go back and hook up your old friends with your new ones.

One stop shopping. Ain't it grand?

(Note: above is sarcasm)

Why do some of y'all continue to pretend this is not the way it works?

Who pretends that? You and those that think like you are the ones always demand ting that grater and grater government control is not only necessary but so much better than the alternative. now, here you are, admitting that it is not.

Uhhhhh..... where have I ever said anything remotely like that?

Are you taking cues from QW and his fiction? Hell, I've been saying the same thing the whole time I've been here, and way before.

So back this up -- quote where I've demanded "greater and greater government control". Or admit you just brought in a strawman.

 

[Pogo]

The interesting point that YOU miss is the fact that you have COMPLETE control over a corporation where you have far less power over the government. you seem to think that the ability to vote again 4 years after the last election somehow confers this awesome oversight of the government but that the simple fact that you can stop purchasing a product right now and the corporation ceases to exist confers no power to you at all.

That is completely asinine.

We have ultimate control over companies at all times. not only can we obliterate them by simply not purchasing their products but we may also get that exact same service or product from their competitor. What about the government? Just try and stop paying them and see what happens.

This idea that companies have some major power over us all is the most convoluted and confusing sentiment that people hold these days. YOU have the money and that means YOU have the power.

Sorry FQ but those things in bold are laughably insane. Corporations exist at the pleasure of the people in theory only. In practice, you go organize a boycott because you don't like Coca-Cola. Rotsa ruck. Corporatia controls the government and will use it as its tool to thrive up to and including its military. Unless we somehow gain mind control over millions of consumers we have zero power over it. We have created an oligarchy instead of a royalty but the effect is the same. And that oligarchy has plenty of loyalists, which are as impenetrable as that boycott.

Government? A puppet show. We can play with the voting machine toy and pretend we're electing a puppet who, this time for sure, is gonna go clean the place up -- but it's still a puppet, and to believe that its wearing of a red or blue costume is going to make a damn bit of difference is as illusory as the illusion that we have "control" over Corporatia.

Sorry but your bold above strikes me as acutely naïve.

Of course it does. Why bother voting then Pogo? It seems that you think there is nothing that you influence at all. I guess that can serve to lessen the load on your consciousnesses when you do nothing to actually address the problems but the real tragedy here is that the only reason that we do not see real results is because of the apathy that you are displaying right here. It is a fact that as long as you demand that you cannot change anything - you simply will not.

If you think that your vote has no influence then it will not. If you don't think that your purchases do not have influence then they will not. There is little point in explaining the painfully obvious to someone that has already given up their free will. Continue on thinking that you are powerless - the millions of people that are exactly like you are the sole thing that can destroy this notion - not the corporations or the crony politicians. They only exist as an extension of the very attitude that you are projecting. It is sad that you can look at the symptoms and see the problems but completely miss the actual disease. What a tragedy.

Strange post dood. I'm just being realistic about the way things work. What you wrote that I responded to just sounds polyanna. The idea that we have some kind of "vote" by withholding our consumer dollars? I respect your views but you must be quite young to believe the world works that way. It'll get you nowhere.

Nothing would please me more than to be able to bring down, say, Monsanto, but I know damn well my own selections against it aren't going to amount to a grain of sand on the beach. I make those choices only for my own self-protection. Meanwhile I can protest when the USG puts a Monsanto lawyer into the Ag Department, I'll sign on the petitions and get the word out and so forth, and hurl a few more grains of sand, but as long as we have two parties indistinguishable from each other genuflecting before the Corporatia that funds their elections, we're basically fucked, because we have no representation in that collusion. That's just the reality.

Ever try to spearhead a boycott--- that is, inspire an entire segment of the population to, not do something but decline to do something? Can't be done. You can inspire some of the people some of the time to take a positive action, but getting them to avoid something, first of all you have to reach all the people who ever bought that product before, PLUS all the people who might buy that product in the future, PLUS convince them all it's a bad idea. Nobody has that kind of reach unless they're a big corporation with, say, nine hundred radio stations, some TV channels and a movie production house.

 

[Darkwind]

Corporations are a necessary evil, and are only evil when you don't regulate them.

Governments are a necessary evil, are only evil when you don't restrict their power.

 

[Pogo]

Corporations are a necessary evil, and are only evil when you don't regulate them.

Governments are a necessary evil, are only evil when you don't restrict their power.

Both are true. And exponentially so when the two entities are inextricably intertwined into a single unit.

 

[Pogo]

Okay, y'all have convinced me. Corporations are evil. I need the government to protect me from them.

Not only do we already have that but the really good news is they work hand in glove; when you've put some time in with Monsanto you can come run the Ag Department that regulates your former employer. Then you can go back and hook up your old friends with your new ones.

One stop shopping. Ain't it grand?

(Note: above is sarcasm)

Why do some of y'all continue to pretend this is not the way it works?

Who pretends that? You and those that think like you are the ones always demand ting that grater and grater government control is not only necessary but so much better than the alternative. now, here you are, admitting that it is not.

A more complete response:
The poster I was replying to seems to pretend that. His premise, if I read his sarcasm correctly, is that "we", whoever we means, see government as some kind of Lord Protector over Corporatia (which you also seem to assume here). I'm saying that's not the relationship at all, that they're in collusion. If there actually is a discernible hierarchy, it sure isn't the government in the position of power. In truth the co-conspirators need each other; Corporatia depends on government to legislatively smooth its path to profits, and to do so funnels a steady stream of its own people into it -- and government depends on Corporatia's funds to keep it elected, in power, and in the case of mass media, to keep its message in the public mainstream to perpetuate exactly that status quo, keep the populace dumbed down and/or overloaded with info and swimming in mindless meaningless celebrity gossip to keep our eye off the ball.

Precisely because that is the way that it works is the underlying problem with so much government involvement into the commercial sector. All it does is empower the big over the small with regulations that they can afford to weather or buy their way out of where the competition cannot.

Its not that the company is 'evil.' Rather it is the fact that the government power ultimately corrupts those that gain it and that is exactly what the companies are trying to do. After all, we have created a system where the ONLY way to be profitable is with government collusion.

I certainly don't disagree that government has made life far easier for the larger to dominate and consume the smaller. No question there, and that's a problem, especially in my field, mass media -- which is why I keep railing against such consolidation. But again that's a collusion set up between Corporatia (the big players) and its friends in government, all at the expense of the populace.

I would submit to you that in this corruption, and corruption is an appropriate term, the victim is not the smaller segments of Corporatia, but the consumer. While government collusion may favor the bigger fish over the smaller, it undeniably favors both the bigger and smaller corporate fish over We the Plankton.

I've posted this a bunch of times but since we're on the topic of Monsanto this is a perfect example of that collusion.

 

[Asclepias]

Your point was you didn't read the OP?

IS that because it is so much easier to jump on the anti Monsanto bandwagon than to actually do some research and provide actual fact to back up your premise? After all, that is what the CDZ is supposed to be about, isn't it? Because, frankly, herbicide resident weeds sounds like the result of misuse of herbicides by lazy farmers. Would you like me to ask a guy I know that actually farms cotton why he doesn't have those weeds all over his property, despite the fact that he lives in the area where they are running rampant?

Alternatively, you could provide evidence that Monsanto recommends over spraying with Roundup. That should be pretty easy since the label actually says that is should be sprayed only once a year.

Now, unless I missed something, your point was that you want to blame Monsanto for evolution, idiots that can't read, and your lack of willingness to read. Did I leave anything out?

Yes you did miss something. You missed my point. I dont have to provide proof that they recommend spraying. What you want me to provide is a deflection once again from the point. They provided the GM roundup proof crop seeds. Any idiot can follow the progression from there. The farmers will spray specifically using roundup to get rid of weeds. Now that the superweeds have emerged more roundup will be used to kill the increasingly resistant weeds. No company on earth is going to tell you to keep spraying because watchdog groups will be crawling all over them. They know that you are in the habit and most likely you will use their product. Dont you know anything about product marketing and consumer psychology?

Naive people like you are their dream consumers. You have not the slightest clue what they are doing to you at all. Lets make it simple for you. You buy their seed. The cash register rings. You buy their roundup. Cha ching. The 2 are intertwined so they make money on both ends of the deal. I cant possibly make it any clearer for you.

Wrong.

What I want you to do is actually debate the topic, which is why I put this thread in the Clean Debate Zone. Making wild accusations, and then crying when the other guy asks you to defend them, is not debating it is crying. If you want to cry you have plenty of places to do so, if you want to debate, bring on some arguments and defend them with facts.

Wrong.

Again you are deflecting from the point. I dont have to provide you anything. What for? I dont care if you believe it or not. You must have me mixed up with someone that thinks your opinion means something. The company is double dipping on the same process and adding more poison to the environment and our food in the process. I dont want to debate because its not a debatable issue. The company provides both products and have made it so both are intertwined. Those are facts. in regard to your OP I already said companies were not evil buts lets not pretend all companies are just and pristine either.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes you did miss something. You missed my point. I dont have to provide proof that they recommend spraying. What you want me to provide is a deflection once again from the point. They provided the GM roundup proof crop seeds. Any idiot can follow the progression from there. The farmers will spray specifically using roundup to get rid of weeds. Now that the superweeds have emerged more roundup will be used to kill the increasingly resistant weeds. No company on earth is going to tell you to keep spraying because watchdog groups will be crawling all over them. They know that you are in the habit and most likely you will use their product. Dont you know anything about product marketing and consumer psychology?

Naive people like you are their dream consumers. You have not the slightest clue what they are doing to you at all. Lets make it simple for you. You buy their seed. The cash register rings. You buy their roundup. Cha ching. The 2 are intertwined so they make money on both ends of the deal. I cant possibly make it any clearer for you.

Wrong.

What I want you to do is actually debate the topic, which is why I put this thread in the Clean Debate Zone. Making wild accusations, and then crying when the other guy asks you to defend them, is not debating it is crying. If you want to cry you have plenty of places to do so, if you want to debate, bring on some arguments and defend them with facts.

Wrong.

Again you are deflecting from the point. I dont have to provide you anything. What for? I dont care if you believe it or not. You must have me mixed up with someone that thinks your opinion means something. The company is double dipping on the same process and adding more poison to the environment and our food in the process. I dont want to debate because its not a debatable issue. The company provides both products and have made it so both are intertwined. Those are facts. in regard to your OP I already said companies were not evil buts lets not pretend all companies are just and pristine either.

The point of debate is to convince other people. If you want me to believe you, convince me. If you prefer to come across as a fundamentalist preacher, keep doing what you are doing

 

[Asclepias]

Wrong.

What I want you to do is actually debate the topic, which is why I put this thread in the Clean Debate Zone. Making wild accusations, and then crying when the other guy asks you to defend them, is not debating it is crying. If you want to cry you have plenty of places to do so, if you want to debate, bring on some arguments and defend them with facts.

Wrong.

Again you are deflecting from the point. I dont have to provide you anything. What for? I dont care if you believe it or not. You must have me mixed up with someone that thinks your opinion means something. The company is double dipping on the same process and adding more poison to the environment and our food in the process. I dont want to debate because its not a debatable issue. The company provides both products and have made it so both are intertwined. Those are facts. in regard to your OP I already said companies were not evil buts lets not pretend all companies are just and pristine either.

The point of debate is to convince other people. If you want me to believe you, convince me. If you prefer to come across as a fundamentalist preacher, keep doing what you are doing

Maybe you missed it the first time. I dont care if you believe me. You are no one to convince. You had an issue with my post. You prove your case.

 

[Bfgrn]

.

The Left doesn't like capitalism and wants to promote an authoritarian, centralized federal bureaucracy at all times.

So it's ideologically obligated to demonize "corporations" at every opportunity. Of course, a "corporation" could be a grandmother running an Ebay business from her kitchen table, so they have to keep the term nice and vague.

Effective regulation (not the same as MORE regulation) is absolutely crucial, and maybe one day we'll have it. But we can count on the Left to demonize private industry at every turn. Their adoration of, and devotion to, government requires it.

.

Total nonsense. It is this kind of post that reveals your true far right colors.

The real problem is conservatives don't understand what constitutes a true free market and what constitutes a captured market.

There is nothing wrong with corporations. Corporations are a good thing. They encourage us to take risks. They maximize wealth. They create jobs. They're a great thing, but they should not be running our government. The reason for that is they don't have the same aspirations for America that you and I do. A corporation does not want democracy. It does not want free markets, it wants profits, and the best way for it to get profits is to use our campaign-finance system -- which is just a system of legalized bribery -- to get their stakes, their hooks into a public official and then use that public official to dismantle the marketplace to give them a competitive advantage and then to privatize the commons, to steal the commonwealth, to liquidate public assets for cash, to plunder, to steal from the rest of us.

And that doesn't mean corporations are a bad thing. It just means they're amoral, and we have to recognize that and not let them into the political process. Let them do their thing, but they should not be participating in our political process, because a corporation cannot do something genuinely philanthropic.

A free market is the most efficient and democratic way to distribute the goods of the land, and that the best thing that could happen to the environment is if we had true free-market capitalism in this country, because the free market promotes efficiency, and efficiency means the elimination of waste, and pollution of course is waste. The free market also would encourage us to properly value our natural resources, and it's the undervaluation of those resources that causes us to use them wastefully. But in a true free-market economy, you can't make yourself rich without making your neighbors rich and without enriching your community.

But what polluters do is they make themselves rich by making everybody else poor. They raise standards of living for themselves by lowering the quality of life for everybody else, and they do that by evading the discipline of the free market. You show me a polluter; I'll show you a subsidy. I'll show you a fat cat using political clout to escape the discipline of the free market and to force the public to pay his production costs. That's what all pollution is. It's always a subsidy. It's always a guy trying to cheat the free market.

Corporations are externalizing machines. They're constantly figuring out ways to get somebody else to pay their costs of production. That's their nature. One of the best ways to do that, and the most common way for a polluter, is through pollution.

The rule is the commons are owned by all of us. They're not owned by the governor or the legislator or the coal companies and the utility. Everybody has a right to use them. Nobody has a right to abuse them. Nobody has a right to use them in a way that will diminish or injure their use and enjoyment by others.

Our founding fathers completely understood this.

Our founding fathers did not subscribe to Adam Smith's 'invisible hand'. They believed in very heavy regulations and restrictions on corporations. They were men who held ethics as the most important attribute. They viewed being paid by the American people for their services as a privilege not a right. And they had no problem closing down any corporation that swindled the people, and holding owners and stockholder personally liable for any harm to the people they caused.

Early laws regulating corporations in America

*Corporations were required to have a clear purpose, to be fulfilled but not exceeded.

*Corporations’ licenses to do business were revocable by the state legislature if they exceeded or did not fulfill their chartered purpose(s).

*The state legislature could revoke a corporation’s charter if it misbehaved.

*The act of incorporation did not relieve corporate management or stockholders/owners of responsibility or liability for corporate acts.

*As a matter of course, corporation officers, directors, or agents couldn’t break the law and avoid punishment by claiming they were “just doing their job” when committing crimes but instead could be held criminally liable for violating the law.

*Directors of the corporation were required to come from among stockholders.

*Corporations had to have their headquarters and meetings in the state where their principal place of business was located.

*Corporation charters were granted for a specific period of time, such as twenty or thirty years (instead of being granted “in perpetuity,” as is now the practice).

*Corporations were prohibited from owning stock in other corporations, to prevent them from extending their power inappropriately.

*Corporations’ real estate holdings were limited to what was necessary to carry out their specific purpose(s).

*Corporations were prohibited from making any political contributions, direct or indirect.

*Corporations were prohibited from making charitable or civic donations outside of their specific purposes.

*State legislatures could set the rates that some monopoly corporations could charge for their products or services.

*All corporation records and documents were open to the legislature or the state attorney general.

The Early Role of Corporations in America

The Legacy of the Founding Parents


The first thing to understand is the difference between the natural person and the fictitious person called a corporation. They differ in the purpose for which they are created, in the strength which they possess, and in the restraints under which they act. Man is the handiwork of God and was placed upon earth to carry out a Divine purpose; the corporation is the handiwork of man and created to carry out a money-making policy. There is comparatively little difference in the strength of men; a corporation may be one hundred, one thousand, or even one million times stronger than the average man. Man acts under the restraints of conscience, and is influenced also by a belief in a future life. A corporation has no soul and cares nothing about the hereafter.
—William Jennings Bryan, 1912 Ohio Constitutional Convention

 

[Avatar4321]

If corporation aren't evil, then absolutely nothing changes. Because we already live in a world where they aren't evil.