What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism: Open Q&A

[Red Front]

Not correct, No Dictators ever under Democratic rules.

Well of course, if we actually had democracy. We have a plutocracy in America, where big money rules. People are brainwashed in America, thinking they're living in a "democracy". The rich rule, not the working class.

 

[22lcidw]

The Communist Party USA, doesn't represent most communists in America. They believe in supporting those they feel are the "lesser evil". That doesn't imply that they believe Biden is a communist, but rather that Biden is better than Trump for the working class, according to the Communist Party USA. Grow up. Insults are often the refuge of a weak argument.

I do not discount anything. I do believe that what you support will be authoritarian. And frankly, many Americans will eventually be tired of the games and rights abused from the current growing number of authoritarians. And sorry to say, if the Communist eliminated the current ones in sufficient numbers, it may play well. We throw around the word hate and a lot of it is false. There is legitimate hate though when one feels powerless. And that can be cultivated as we see.

 

[sartre play]

Wrong

Mccarthy violated the rights of NO ONE and cost no one trheir lively hood.

yes the USSR fought hard against the nazis but this was satan fighting the devil.

Maybe you are young or have forgotten how many lives & reputations were destroyed.
possibly you could do a little research?
That was a real black mark in our history.

 

[Red Front]

I do not discount anything. I do believe that what you support will be authoritarian. And frankly, many Americans will eventually be tired of the games and rights abused from the current growing number of authoritarians. And sorry to say, if the Communist eliminated the current ones in sufficient numbers, it may play well. We throw around the word hate and a lot of it is false. There is legitimate hate though when one feels powerless. And that can be cultivated as we see.

I do not discount anything. I do believe that what you support will be authoritarian.

You're entitled to your opinion. I know I personally don't support authoritarianism. I'm for the rule of the people.

And frankly, many Americans will eventually be tired of the games and rights abused from the current growing number of authoritarians. And sorry to say, if the Communist eliminated the current ones in sufficient numbers, it may play well. We throw around the word hate and a lot of it is false. There is legitimate hate though when one feels powerless. And that can be cultivated as we see.

What "games" are you referring to and who are these "authoritarians"? Me? It's the capitalists, who are the true authoritarians. Have you ever participated in an election at your 9 to 5?

 

[Hum Dinger]

It's amazing that this thread is titled

What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism​

None of the above are American political philosophies. Neither is Fascism. All of the above are European constructs.

American political philosophies are based on principles and values, the writings of Jefferson, Madison and Paine...none of which you've mentioned.

The American political debate has become Europeanized and it seems that American values are all but forgotten.

 

[Hum Dinger]

It's amazing that this thread is titled

What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism​

None of the above are American political philosophies. Neither is Fascism. All of the above are European constructs.

American political philosophies are based on principles and values, the writings of Jefferson, Madison and Paine...none of which you've mentioned.

The American political debate has become Europeanized and it seems that American values are all but forgotten.

I should also add that another OLD WORLD political system is MONARCHY.

While Americans have been distracted by the Capitalism vs. Communism argument, a defacto neo-monarchy has become the American true political & economic system.

Perhaps we should be discussing that.

 

[sartre play]

It's amazing that this thread is titled

What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism​

None of the above are American political philosophies. Neither is Fascism. All of the above are European constructs.

American political philosophies are based on principles and values, the writings of Jefferson, Madison and Paine...none of which you've mentioned.

The American political debate has become Europeanized and it seems that American values are all but forgotten.

Thanks,
the principals that our nation was founded on have been bashed & twisted to fit political party propaganda,
based on winning control of OUR nation buy one party.
When in fact things work better when the aim is to work together, AS our founding fathers did.

 

[BlindBoo]

How so? Elaborate.



Explain. How are they "highly susceptible to authoritarians"? Is it similar to capitalism, with its authoritarian workplaces? The workplace is where people spend much of their waking hours. We're not authoritarian here in the US? We have plutocracy, not democracy or genuine control over our government. How is communism "highly susceptible to authoritarians"and supposedly, in your estimation, our capitalist-run government isn't? Maybe you can also define freedom, or the opposite of the authoritarianism that you're claiming communism is susceptible to.

Socialism, Capitalism Ratings in U.S. Unchanged

Americans' positive ratings of capitalism (60%) and socialism (38%) are unchanged over the past two years, though their ratings of big business are slightly less positive (slipping six percentage points to 46%).

news.gallup.com

38% isn't that low and as advanced automation and artificial intelligence continue to take jobs, it's inevitable that eventually, we're going to be forced by necessity to adopt a non-profit form of production, a.k.a. socialism. Socialism is the process that leads to communism. It might take a few more decades, but eventually, socialism will become the successor of capitalism, just like capitalism succeeded chattel slavery and feudalism. We're now gradually moving into a post-capitalist economy.



One needs thick skin to be an American communist.

"Recent Gallup research found that Americans, particularly Democrats, are most likely to think of socialism in terms of equality and government provision of benefits and services. When Gallup polled Americans on the meaning of socialism in 1949, the largest proportion described it in the traditional sense as government ownership of the means of economic production. Thus, the meaning of the term to Americans is evolving",

Furthermore from that poll, the only thing Americans hate more than Socialism is the Federal government. So that 38% favorability has a lot of Democrats who believe Social Security, Medicare is socialism.

Most socialist movements will be taken over by Authoritarians. Just my opinion. Power corrupts.

 

[Red Front]

It's amazing that this thread is titled

What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism​

None of the above are American political philosophies. Neither is Fascism. All of the above are European constructs.

American political philosophies are based on principles and values, the writings of Jefferson, Madison and Paine...none of which you've mentioned.

The American political debate has become Europeanized and it seems that American values are all but forgotten.

While it's true that our founding fathers laid the groundwork for our nation, it's important to remember that they were not a monolithic group with a single, unified political philosophy. They had diverse views and engaged in vigorous debates about the best way to govern the new nation. Some were slave owners, a fact that we must grapple with as we consider their legacy.

Moreover, the founding fathers were wise enough to understand that their vision of governance might need to evolve over time. That's why they made provisions for amending the Constitution. They recognized that future generations might face new challenges and opportunities that would require them to adapt and innovate, just as the founders themselves had done.

American political thought has always been a rich tapestry of ideas, and socialism, communism, and Marxism are threads in that tapestry. American socialists and communists have made significant contributions to our nation, particularly in the realm of labor rights. The 40-hour work week, the 8-hour work day, overtime pay, minimum wage, unemployment insurance, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid - these are all the fruits of labor activism, much of which was led by American socialists.

To suggest that one must adhere to a particular political philosophy to be a "true" American is to misunderstand the very essence of America. Our nation was founded on the principles of freedom and democracy, which include the freedom to hold and express diverse political views and to participate in democratic debate about the best way forward for our nation.

​

The rise of advanced automation technology and artificial intelligence is a challenge that requires us to adapt, adopting new modes of thinking and enabling us to continue producing the goods and services that we rely on. These technologies have the potential to displace tens of millions of jobs, leading to extremely high unemployment. This is not a challenge that can be effectively addressed within the confines of a purely capitalist system.

In conclusion, being a good American is not about adhering to a particular political philosophy. It's about contributing to the betterment of our nation, standing up for justice and equality, and engaging in thoughtful, respectful debate about the best way forward. That's what American socialists and communists are doing, and that's what makes us true American patriots.

 

[Red Front]

"Recent Gallup research found that Americans, particularly Democrats, are most likely to think of socialism in terms of equality and government provision of benefits and services. When Gallup polled Americans on the meaning of socialism in 1949, the largest proportion described it in the traditional sense as government ownership of the means of economic production. Thus, the meaning of the term to Americans is evolving",

Furthermore from that poll, the only thing Americans hate more than Socialism is the Federal government. So that 38% favorability has a lot of Democrats who believe Social Security, Medicare is socialism.

Most socialist movements will be taken over by Authoritarians. Just my opinion. Power corrupts.

You can believe that, but we're committed to democracy. The working class should rule, one man/woman, one vote.

 

[Red Front]

I should also add that another OLD WORLD political system is MONARCHY.

While Americans have been distracted by the Capitalism vs. Communism argument, a defacto neo-monarchy has become the American true political & economic system.

Perhaps we should be discussing that.

Your assertion that socialism, communism, and Marxism are inherently un-American because they originated in Europe seems to overlook the fact that many of the principles that underpin our current capitalist system also have European roots. Adam Smith, the father of modern capitalism was a Scot. The last time I checked, Scotland was in Europe.

For instance, the Austrian School of Economics, which has significantly influenced modern economic thought in the United States, was founded by Carl Menger in Vienna during the late 19th century. Later luminaries of this school, such as Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek, also hailed from Europe. Their work laid the groundwork for many of the free-market principles that are often associated with American capitalism today.

Similarly, the Chicago School, led by figures such as Milton Friedman and George Stigler, while based in the United States, drew heavily on the ideas of these European predecessors. The term "libertarianism" as it is commonly understood in the U.S. today, refers to a political philosophy that emphasizes laissez-faire capitalism and minimal government intervention also has its roots in European thought, despite the term originally being associated with European democratic socialism.

Moreover, the very concept of capitalism as we understand it today was born in Europe, with the Industrial Revolution beginning in Britain. Even the political philosophy of republicanism, which is so integral to our American identity, was born out of European Enlightenment thought and the struggles between republicans and monarchists on the continent.

Therefore, to dismiss socialism and communism as un-American because they originated in Europe seems inconsistent. Ideas, like goods in a market, are not confined by national borders. They are shared, adapted, and evolved as they move across time and space. The strength of an idea lies not in its geographical origin, but in its ability to address the challenges we face and to improve the human condition.

In conclusion, the exchange and adaptation of ideas across borders is a fundamental aspect of human progress. It's not about borrowing too much or too little from Europe or any other place. It's about learning from the collective wisdom of humanity and applying those lessons to our unique context to create a more just, prosperous, and sustainable society.

Note: Many Americans worship Jesus as their God. Jesus came from the Middle East, not from America. Does one become un-American if their religion originated in the Middle East? Religions, including political thought, aren't constrained or bound by physical, national boundaries. Food for thought.

 

[Natural Citizen]

For instance, the Austrian School of Economics, which has significantly influenced modern economic thought in the United States, was founded by Carl Menger in Vienna during the late 19th century. Later luminaries of this school, such as Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek, also hailed from Europe. Their work laid the groundwork for many of the free-market principles that are often associated with American capitalism today.

The purveyors of modern economic theory completely disregard the fundamental principles of these folks.

As has been said. We're Keynesians now.

It will fail. it must by default. And it is, if we're paying attention. It's socialism.

Keyensianism is antithetical to free-market capitalism. It is the foundation to the stepping stones that lead to full blown socialism and ultimately to communism.

I don't even like the term ''capitalism.'' It's the wrong term to be debating because it's almost always invoked and debated in a way that is completely detached from the kinds of policies we actually have. Again...we're Keynesians.

 

[Red Front]

The purveyors of modern economic theory completely disregard the fundamental principles of these folks.

As has been said. We're Keynesians now.

It will fail. it must by default. And it is, if we're paying attention. It's socialism.

Keyensianism is antithetical to free-market capitalism. It is the the foundation of the stepping stones that lead to full blown socialism and ultimately to communism.

So-called "free market", laissez-faire capitalism has never worked. You can't even start a market without some type of legal authority, legal tender/money.

​

 

[Natural Citizen]

So-called "free market", laissez-faire capitalism has never worked. You can't even start a market without some type of legal authority, legal tender/money.

​

That's debatable, but I was just saying that the economic principles of those Austrian economists you referenced are completely disregarded by the modern, Keyensian system.

You can't invoke blame them for the failure of Keynesian policy. Austrian economics is antithetical to Keyensian economics.

I mean, I suppose you can invoke it. But getting away with it just depends on who happens to be flipping through the threads. I'll always bang on something like that. Every single time. Respectfully speaking.

Keynesianism is designed to fail. And, as I said ,serve as the foundation for the stepping stones to full blown socialism and eventually communism.

 

[Hum Dinger]

While it's true that our founding fathers laid the groundwork for our nation, it's important to remember that they were not a monolithic group with a single, unified political philosophy. They had diverse views and engaged in vigorous debates about the best way to govern the new nation. Some were slave owners, a fact that we must grapple with as we consider their legacy.

Moreover, the founding fathers were wise enough to understand that their vision of governance might need to evolve over time. That's why they made provisions for amending the Constitution. They recognized that future generations might face new challenges and opportunities that would require them to adapt and innovate, just as the founders themselves had done.

American political thought has always been a rich tapestry of ideas, and socialism, communism, and Marxism are threads in that tapestry. American socialists and communists have made significant contributions to our nation, particularly in the realm of labor rights. The 40-hour work week, the 8-hour work day, overtime pay, minimum wage, unemployment insurance, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid - these are all the fruits of labor activism, much of which was led by American socialists.

To suggest that one must adhere to a particular political philosophy to be a "true" American is to misunderstand the very essence of America. Our nation was founded on the principles of freedom and democracy, which include the freedom to hold and express diverse political views and to participate in democratic debate about the best way forward for our nation.

​

The rise of advanced automation technology and artificial intelligence is a challenge that requires us to adapt, adopting new modes of thinking and enabling us to continue producing the goods and services that we rely on. These technologies have the potential to displace tens of millions of jobs, leading to extremely high unemployment. This is not a challenge that can be effectively addressed within the confines of a purely capitalist system.

In conclusion, being a good American is not about adhering to a particular political philosophy. It's about contributing to the betterment of our nation, standing up for justice and equality, and engaging in thoughtful, respectful debate about the best way forward. That's what American socialists and communists are doing, and that's what makes us true American patriots.

Player Piano (novel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Red Front]

Player Piano (novel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't chase links. Elaborate, explain, then maybe I will visit your link. Don't just throw links at me.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Your assertion that socialism, communism, and Marxism are inherently un-American because they originated in Europe seems to overlook the fact that many of the principles that underpin our current capitalist system also have European roots. Adam Smith, the father of modern capitalism was a Scot. The last time I checked, Scotland was in Europe.

For instance, the Austrian School of Economics, which has significantly influenced modern economic thought in the United States, was founded by Carl Menger in Vienna during the late 19th century. Later luminaries of this school, such as Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek, also hailed from Europe. Their work laid the groundwork for many of the free-market principles that are often associated with American capitalism today.

Similarly, the Chicago School, led by figures such as Milton Friedman and George Stigler, while based in the United States, drew heavily on the ideas of these European predecessors. The term "libertarianism" as it is commonly understood in the U.S. today, refers to a political philosophy that emphasizes laissez-faire capitalism and minimal government intervention also has its roots in European thought, despite the term originally being associated with European democratic socialism.

Moreover, the very concept of capitalism as we understand it today was born in Europe, with the Industrial Revolution beginning in Britain. Even the political philosophy of republicanism, which is so integral to our American identity, was born out of European Enlightenment thought and the struggles between republicans and monarchists on the continent.

Therefore, to dismiss socialism and communism as un-American because they originated in Europe seems inconsistent. Ideas, like goods in a market, are not confined by national borders. They are shared, adapted, and evolved as they move across time and space. The strength of an idea lies not in its geographical origin, but in its ability to address the challenges we face and to improve the human condition.

In conclusion, the exchange and adaptation of ideas across borders is a fundamental aspect of human progress. It's not about borrowing too much or too little from Europe or any other place. It's about learning from the collective wisdom of humanity and applying those lessons to our unique context to create a more just, prosperous, and sustainable society.

Note: Many Americans worship Jesus as their God. Jesus came from the Middle East, not from America. Does one become un-American if their religion originated in the Middle East? Religions, including political thought, aren't constrained or bound by physical, national boundaries. Food for thought.

The political dialogue in the U.S. has been high-jacked by European concepts, while American values have been ignored.

It's a matter of putting the cart before the horse. It isn't that capitalism or communist is un-American, it's that we should be determining our stance on capitalism and communism from the viewpoint of American values.

Monarchy is the one system that Americans should universally stand against as the founding fathers did.

 

[Hum Dinger]

I don't chase links. Elaborate, explain, then maybe I will visit your link. Don't just throw links at me.

A classic novel about a fully automated society. Definitely worth the read.

 

[The Duke]

The OP isn't defining what communism or socialism means in America and so it looks like another hit and run thread so far.

At least we can say that America's style of capitalism is failing and Trump has capitalized on that.

Common to all of America's working class is their anger toward the system that is cheating them out of a piece of the great American pie. If socially responsibe capitalist countries' working class have it, why can't Americans.

Also common to nearly all Americans is they hate one political party or the other.

And then there's China's success that has elevated hundreds of millions of the poor into contented working class.

Where is the communism or socialism in America?

Hey man, where that SeaMajor7 was talking about people getting communism pumped into their soft heads? You're

one of those soft-headed motherfuckers that got that done to them in Canada.

 

[The Duke]

Well we have to, due to advanced technology.

That's cold war propaganda. Full of half-truths and even complete fabrications. Hear what these former CIA officers have to say about creating false propaganda against communists:

Harpal Brar interviewed about the history of Soviet communism

Harpal Brar, chair of the Communist Party of Great Britain-ML

www.youtube.com

Death toll arguments don't work, because capitalism doesn't have the moral high ground when it comes to death and destruction.

No America does NOT and there is no "we".

McCarthy and Skousen were right.

How many of these things have come to fruition since the 1950s? Granted that some are outdated now.

"1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament (by) the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s prombe realitybe realitybe realityise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs of organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
be reality
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the grounds that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Commube realitynist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand (or treat).

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use united force to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike."

Current Communist Goals (1958) - W. Cleon Skousen

1958 Current Communist Goals, as outlined by W. Cleon Skousen. The following was entered into the Congressional record by Albert Herlong, Jr. (a Floridian

www.latterdayconservative.com

Better off dead than red.