What is peace worth ?

[Boston1]

OK so I came in and started a number of threads designed to show that there really isn't an argument based on logic. That palestine was divided into two states. Jordan and Israel. The two state solution. Even if the timeline of the suggestion of the two state solution, as suggested by the remaining Arab beligerants in Israel is dissonant with the actual implementation of that two state solution by the British. IE, what the Arabs now want is a three or four state "solution".

But what is peace really worth. SOME of the Arabs have stated that there will only be peace when Israel is wiped off the face of the map, but look at the cost, the damage, the unfairness of the situation. About 99% of N Africa is held by Arab Muslims many of which are not indigenous tribes or peoples. The Judaic people are asking for less than 1% in the exact area of their cultural and national heritage. Their homeland.

How many years of bloodshed really need to go buy before both sides realize that bloodshed isn't the answer. Oh you can kill the man, but you can't kill the idea. Something else you can't kill is the racism.

I've kept it pretty impersonal so far other than to mention my native american background, yeah, I'm 50% Iroquois, but I'm also 25% Jewish. Just found out a few years ago. Last year I dated a Muslim from Kazakstan on my summer stay in Yellowstone. Oh she was kinda a pain in the ass but her devout practice of Islam wasn't the issue. Actually she kinda liked that I encouraged her to stay strong and keep to her faith even in the face of some local bigotry. For my part I'm an animist, but I'm not here to discuss faith. I just want to make it clear that there's no reason we all can't just STOP FIGHTING.

A great woman once said, and I'm sorry if it sounds one sided, peace will be had when the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews. ( Golda Mier )

Trying to address the complaints by the Arabs I am forced however to agree with her. The facts on the ground now are clear. The Israeli's will not relent. They will hold their 25% of palestine and make peace with anyone who is willing to allow them their one small slice of the pie.

Some of the Judaic people have been expelled from Arab lands ( might be more accurate to say most but, yeah ) and some of the Arab people have been expelled from Israel ( might be more accurate to say most again ) but whats done is done. Israel is today and will be into eternity. If it hasn't become obvious that no amount of violence is going to dislodge her then someones just not paying attention.

The point is how much is enough. How much blood does it take to realize that blood isn't the answer ?

Martyrs cannot be silenced, on either side. We all have our hero's. But how much blood does it take, to erase the hatred and begin the healing.

What will my ancestors say of me, if I don't rise above it all and make every attempt to live in peace, when faced with overwhelming odds.

So the question becomes

How much pride is living in peace worth ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is Israel's war. It can stop it any time it wants.

 

[emilynghiem]

OK so I came in and started a number of threads designed to show that there really isn't an argument based on logic. That palestine was divided into two states. Jordan and Israel. The two state solution. Even if the timeline of the suggestion of the two state solution, as suggested by the remaining Arab beligerants in Israel is dissonant with the actual implementation of that two state solution by the British. IE, what the Arabs now want is a three or four state "solution".

But what is peace really worth. SOME of the Arabs have stated that there will only be peace when Israel is wiped off the face of the map, but look at the cost, the damage, the unfairness of the situation. About 99% of N Africa is held by Arab Muslims many of which are not indigenous tribes or peoples. The Judaic people are asking for less than 1% in the exact area of their cultural and national heritage. Their homeland.

How many years of bloodshed really need to go buy before both sides realize that bloodshed isn't the answer. Oh you can kill the man, but you can't kill the idea. Something else you can't kill is the racism.

I've kept it pretty impersonal so far other than to mention my native american background, yeah, I'm 50% Iroquois, but I'm also 25% Jewish. Just found out a few years ago. Last year I dated a Muslim from Kazakstan on my summer stay in Yellowstone. Oh she was kinda a pain in the ass but her devout practice of Islam wasn't the issue. Actually she kinda liked that I encouraged her to stay strong and keep to her faith even in the face of some local bigotry. For my part I'm an animist, but I'm not here to discuss faith. I just want to make it clear that there's no reason we all can't just STOP FIGHTING.

A great woman once said, and I'm sorry if it sounds one sided, peace will be had when the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews. ( Golda Mier )

Trying to address the complaints by the Arabs I am forced however to agree with her. The facts on the ground now are clear. The Israeli's will not relent. They will hold their 25% of palestine and make peace with anyone who is willing to allow them their one small slice of the pie.

Some of the Judaic people have been expelled from Arab lands ( might be more accurate to say most but, yeah ) and some of the Arab people have been expelled from Israel ( might be more accurate to say most again ) but whats done is done. Israel is today and will be into eternity. If it hasn't become obvious that no amount of violence is going to dislodge her then someones just not paying attention.

The point is how much is enough. How much blood does it take to realize that blood isn't the answer ?

Martyrs cannot be silenced, on either side. We all have our hero's. But how much blood does it take, to erase the hatred and begin the healing.

What will my ancestors say of me, if I don't rise above it all and make every attempt to live in peace, when faced with overwhelming odds.

So the question becomes

How much pride is living in peace worth ?

Let the people who believe in living in peace live there, where Jews Christians and Muslims all share faith in Jerusalem and Israel as Holy Land.

Anyone who wants to exclude others will themselves be excluded to the same degree.

Anyone who kills for land will cause their side to lose houses and land to the side they oppose.
So nobody will claim such people as residents, if it means losing land and houses for each person killed or each crime committed to try to wipe out another group.

The price for peace is justice. No justice, no peace.

If you want the right to residency there, the price is peaceful coexistence. The Christians are called to forgive first and rebuke second to restore good faith relations with neighbors.
Either follow Mohammad's teaching on acceptance of differences, and the Christian scriptures on reconciling by agreement in Christ as neighbors -- or residents will be treated as they would others,
and get kicked out if that's their philosophy and standard they live by. It's called the Golden Rule.

So only citizens who agree to live in peace, respect civil laws of equal protections and due process,
will afford the rights and privileges to live there.

 

[Hollie]

It is Israel's war. It can stop it any time it wants.

Not true. You should read the Hamas Charter for an instructive lesson on why Islamic terrorism continues.

 

[Boston1]

I'm just curious as to who many Arab Muslims are going to throw away their lives on this before they try peace.

Its really not that hard, you shake hands and take a step forward.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Since there has really never been peace no one can know what it's worth

 

[Humanity]

I'm just curious as to who many Arab Muslims are going to throw away their lives on this before they try peace.

Its really not that hard, you shake hands and take a step forward.

Peace is not on the Israeli government's agenda...

Peace for Israel involves losing face to some degree so that will never happen.

Also, peace does not work for Israel in their 'Greater Israel' plans!

Sad but, IMHO, true...

 

[Hollie]

I'm just curious as to who many Arab Muslims are going to throw away their lives on this before they try peace.

Its really not that hard, you shake hands and take a step forward.

Peace is not on the Israeli government's agenda...

Peace for Israel involves losing face to some degree so that will never happen.

Also, peace does not work for Israel in their 'Greater Israel' plans!

Sad but, IMHO, true...

Is it ignorance or fraud that causes you to make such a demonstrably false comment?

Israel has a demonstrated history of returning land in exchange for peace.The State of Israel has returned and withdrawn from captured territory greater than the size of Israel itself--Sinai, Egyptian land west of the Nile, land east of the Golan, southern Lebanon, Gaza, etc.

 

[MJB12741]

I'm just curious as to who many Arab Muslims are going to throw away their lives on this before they try peace.

Its really not that hard, you shake hands and take a step forward.

Peace is not on the Israeli government's agenda...

Peace for Israel involves losing face to some degree so that will never happen.

Also, peace does not work for Israel in their 'Greater Israel' plans!

Sad but, IMHO, true...

Is it ignorance or fraud that causes you to make such a demonstrably false comment?

Israel has a demonstrated history of returning land in exchange for peace.The State of Israel has returned and withdrawn from captured territory greater than the size of Israel itself--Sinai, Egyptian land west of the Nile, land east of the Golan, southern Lebanon, Gaza, etc.

How unfortunate for the Palestinians that Jordan refused Israel's offer to return the entire West Bank for nothing in return so Jordan could sacrifice this piece of land to dump their Palestinians on Israel to deal with. Truly, Jordan is the smartest player in this Middle East conflict.

 

[montelatici]

OK so I came in and started a number of threads designed to show that there really isn't an argument based on logic. That palestine was divided into two states. Jordan and Israel. The two state solution. Even if the timeline of the suggestion of the two state solution, as suggested by the remaining Arab beligerants in Israel is dissonant with the actual implementation of that two state solution by the British. IE, what the Arabs now want is a three or four state "solution".

But what is peace really worth. SOME of the Arabs have stated that there will only be peace when Israel is wiped off the face of the map, but look at the cost, the damage, the unfairness of the situation. About 99% of N Africa is held by Arab Muslims many of which are not indigenous tribes or peoples. The Judaic people are asking for less than 1% in the exact area of their cultural and national heritage. Their homeland.

How many years of bloodshed really need to go buy before both sides realize that bloodshed isn't the answer. Oh you can kill the man, but you can't kill the idea. Something else you can't kill is the racism.

I've kept it pretty impersonal so far other than to mention my native american background, yeah, I'm 50% Iroquois, but I'm also 25% Jewish. Just found out a few years ago. Last year I dated a Muslim from Kazakstan on my summer stay in Yellowstone. Oh she was kinda a pain in the ass but her devout practice of Islam wasn't the issue. Actually she kinda liked that I encouraged her to stay strong and keep to her faith even in the face of some local bigotry. For my part I'm an animist, but I'm not here to discuss faith. I just want to make it clear that there's no reason we all can't just STOP FIGHTING.

A great woman once said, and I'm sorry if it sounds one sided, peace will be had when the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews. ( Golda Mier )

Trying to address the complaints by the Arabs I am forced however to agree with her. The facts on the ground now are clear. The Israeli's will not relent. They will hold their 25% of palestine and make peace with anyone who is willing to allow them their one small slice of the pie.

Some of the Judaic people have been expelled from Arab lands ( might be more accurate to say most but, yeah ) and some of the Arab people have been expelled from Israel ( might be more accurate to say most again ) but whats done is done. Israel is today and will be into eternity. If it hasn't become obvious that no amount of violence is going to dislodge her then someones just not paying attention.

The point is how much is enough. How much blood does it take to realize that blood isn't the answer ?

Martyrs cannot be silenced, on either side. We all have our hero's. But how much blood does it take, to erase the hatred and begin the healing.

What will my ancestors say of me, if I don't rise above it all and make every attempt to live in peace, when faced with overwhelming odds.

So the question becomes

How much pride is living in peace worth ?

Palestine was not divided into two states. Palestine and Trans-Jordania were two separate territories included in the Mandate. A Mandate is a legal instrument, not a land area.

 

[Humanity]

demonstrably false

Go for it Holly.... Demonstrate that my opinion is false...

Whilst you are wracking your brain cell for more utter BS....

Peace is not on the Israeli government's agenda...

Remember Nut&yahoo's comment... "Not on my watch"?

Peace for Israel involves losing face to some degree so that will never happen.

You think that Israel 'evacuating' occupied territory will not be Israel "losing face"?

Also, peace does not work for Israel in their 'Greater Israel' plans!

You are aware of the 'Greater Israel' plans? A peace solution will NOT achieve that!

 

[Hollie]

demonstrably false

Go for it Holly.... Demonstrate that my opinion is false...

Whilst you are wracking your brain cell for more utter BS....

Peace is not on the Israeli government's agenda...

Remember Nut&yahoo's comment... "Not on my watch"?

Peace for Israel involves losing face to some degree so that will never happen.

You think that Israel 'evacuating' occupied territory will not be Israel "losing face"?

Also, peace does not work for Israel in their 'Greater Israel' plans!

You are aware of the 'Greater Israel' plans? A peace solution will NOT achieve that!

Israel has already demonstrated your opinion is false.

You confirmed your own falsehood with a rather pathetic move the goal posts and then drop ten and punt.

 

[Boston1]

Exactly Hollie, Israel is more than willing to make peace, but the Arab Muslim colonists seem happy to throw their lives away on a cause lost decades ago. I'm always surprised that palestinians parents will cheer on their own children as they die at ratios approaching 100 to 1 if not more, depends on how much they piss off the Israeli's.

Its a blood bath and these people seem to be happy to have their own kids killed in another failed PR campaign that is continually being exposed for what it is

See
Conclusive Proof Hamas Uses Palestinians as Human Shields

Quote
For example, several days ago, the Wall Street Journal published a photograph by Nick Casey of Hamas spokesman Mushir Al Masri using a local hospital as a backdrop to give interviews. The hospital and its patients served, in effect, as a shield for Masri to speak to reporters without being targeted by Israel. A few days after it was posted, the Journal had removed Casey’s photo from its website without explanation.
Meanwhile, a French journalist in Gaza, Radjaa Abu Dagga, published an article in the French newspaper Liberation, describing how when he was taken in for questioning by Hamas, the interrogators used a room in the Al Shifa hospital – proof that Hamas is using the hospital as a shield. But that article, too, was deleted from the Liberation web site after a short time.
But now the story is coming out, and there’s nothing that the Palestinian truth-deniers can do but yell “racist.”
End Quote

 

[montelatici]

Exactly Hollie, Israel is more than willing to make peace, but the Arab Muslim colonists seem happy to throw their lives away on a cause lost decades ago. I'm always surprised that palestinians parents will cheer on their own children as they die at ratios approaching 100 to 1 if not more, depends on how much they piss off the Israeli's.

Its a blood bath and these people seem to be happy to have their own kids killed in another failed PR campaign that is continually being exposed for what it is

See
Conclusive Proof Hamas Uses Palestinians as Human Shields

Quote
For example, several days ago, the Wall Street Journal published a photograph by Nick Casey of Hamas spokesman Mushir Al Masri using a local hospital as a backdrop to give interviews. The hospital and its patients served, in effect, as a shield for Masri to speak to reporters without being targeted by Israel. A few days after it was posted, the Journal had removed Casey’s photo from its website without explanation.
Meanwhile, a French journalist in Gaza, Radjaa Abu Dagga, published an article in the French newspaper Liberation, describing how when he was taken in for questioning by Hamas, the interrogators used a room in the Al Shifa hospital – proof that Hamas is using the hospital as a shield. But that article, too, was deleted from the Liberation web site after a short time.
But now the story is coming out, and there’s nothing that the Palestinian truth-deniers can do but yell “racist.”
End Quote

The only colonists are the Jews.
Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times expresses that the Zionists “will colonize Palestine.”

Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin

 

[montelatici]

Exactly Hollie, Israel is more than willing to make peace, but the Arab Muslim colonists seem happy to throw their lives away on a cause lost decades ago. I'm always surprised that palestinians parents will cheer on their own children as they die at ratios approaching 100 to 1 if not more, depends on how much they piss off the Israeli's.

Its a blood bath and these people seem to be happy to have their own kids killed in another failed PR campaign that is continually being exposed for what it is

See
Conclusive Proof Hamas Uses Palestinians as Human Shields

Quote
For example, several days ago, the Wall Street Journal published a photograph by Nick Casey of Hamas spokesman Mushir Al Masri using a local hospital as a backdrop to give interviews. The hospital and its patients served, in effect, as a shield for Masri to speak to reporters without being targeted by Israel. A few days after it was posted, the Journal had removed Casey’s photo from its website without explanation.
Meanwhile, a French journalist in Gaza, Radjaa Abu Dagga, published an article in the French newspaper Liberation, describing how when he was taken in for questioning by Hamas, the interrogators used a room in the Al Shifa hospital – proof that Hamas is using the hospital as a shield. But that article, too, was deleted from the Liberation web site after a short time.
But now the story is coming out, and there’s nothing that the Palestinian truth-deniers can do but yell “racist.”
End Quote

The co-writers of that propaganda piece are:

Moshe Phillips and Benyamin Korn are members of the board of the Religious Zionists of America.

You couldn't make this stuff up. Boston, you are great for a laugh.

 

[Boston1]

Exactly Hollie, Israel is more than willing to make peace, but the Arab Muslim colonists seem happy to throw their lives away on a cause lost decades ago. I'm always surprised that palestinians parents will cheer on their own children as they die at ratios approaching 100 to 1 if not more, depends on how much they piss off the Israeli's.

Its a blood bath and these people seem to be happy to have their own kids killed in another failed PR campaign that is continually being exposed for what it is

See
Conclusive Proof Hamas Uses Palestinians as Human Shields

Quote
For example, several days ago, the Wall Street Journal published a photograph by Nick Casey of Hamas spokesman Mushir Al Masri using a local hospital as a backdrop to give interviews. The hospital and its patients served, in effect, as a shield for Masri to speak to reporters without being targeted by Israel. A few days after it was posted, the Journal had removed Casey’s photo from its website without explanation.
Meanwhile, a French journalist in Gaza, Radjaa Abu Dagga, published an article in the French newspaper Liberation, describing how when he was taken in for questioning by Hamas, the interrogators used a room in the Al Shifa hospital – proof that Hamas is using the hospital as a shield. But that article, too, was deleted from the Liberation web site after a short time.
But now the story is coming out, and there’s nothing that the Palestinian truth-deniers can do but yell “racist.”
End Quote

The co-writers of that propaganda piece are:

Moshe Phillips and Benyamin Korn are members of the board of the Religious Zionists of America.

You couldn't make this stuff up. Boston, you are great for a laugh.

So what, your an avid racist and bigot but you expect people to listen to your views.

and big deal if a zionist ( an idealist who supports the creation and protection of Israel ) Writes a piece exposing threats to Israel.


If you are really all that happy with the 100 to 1 kill ratio of Arab Muslim colonists to Israelis then fine, let the blood bath continue. Its your choice. In the end it only takes one to start a fight and sometimes that one insists on total defeat.

Israel will just fence the Arab Muslim colonialists in and wait them out. Which is a far cry better than how the Arab Muslim colonists have treated the Israeli's

 

[Hollie]

Exactly Hollie, Israel is more than willing to make peace, but the Arab Muslim colonists seem happy to throw their lives away on a cause lost decades ago. I'm always surprised that palestinians parents will cheer on their own children as they die at ratios approaching 100 to 1 if not more, depends on how much they piss off the Israeli's.

Its a blood bath and these people seem to be happy to have their own kids killed in another failed PR campaign that is continually being exposed for what it is

See
Conclusive Proof Hamas Uses Palestinians as Human Shields

Quote
For example, several days ago, the Wall Street Journal published a photograph by Nick Casey of Hamas spokesman Mushir Al Masri using a local hospital as a backdrop to give interviews. The hospital and its patients served, in effect, as a shield for Masri to speak to reporters without being targeted by Israel. A few days after it was posted, the Journal had removed Casey’s photo from its website without explanation.
Meanwhile, a French journalist in Gaza, Radjaa Abu Dagga, published an article in the French newspaper Liberation, describing how when he was taken in for questioning by Hamas, the interrogators used a room in the Al Shifa hospital – proof that Hamas is using the hospital as a shield. But that article, too, was deleted from the Liberation web site after a short time.
But now the story is coming out, and there’s nothing that the Palestinian truth-deniers can do but yell “racist.”
End Quote

The co-writers of that propaganda piece are:

Moshe Phillips and Benyamin Korn are members of the board of the Religious Zionists of America.

You couldn't make this stuff up. Boston, you are great for a laugh.

In typical fashion, you have no credible rebuttal which leaves you to spam the thread with the same cut and paste you have used to spam multiple threads on multiple occasions.

How sad for you that Islamist terrorists can only be defended with your spam.

 

[fanger]

I'm just curious as to who many Arab Muslims are going to throw away their lives on this before they try peace.

Its really not that hard, you shake hands and take a step forward.

Peace is not on the Israeli government's agenda...

Peace for Israel involves losing face to some degree so that will never happen.

Also, peace does not work for Israel in their 'Greater Israel' plans!

Sad but, IMHO, true...

The descendants of Jewish terrorist´s run the Government of israel and they rule by fear, it serves their book to have most Male and also Females Adopt a militarized mentality via compulsory Military service

 

[fanger]

Exactly Hollie, Israel is more than willing to make peace, but the Arab Muslim colonists seem happy to throw their lives away on a cause lost decades ago. I'm always surprised that palestinians parents will cheer on their own children as they die at ratios approaching 100 to 1 if not more, depends on how much they piss off the Israeli's.

Its a blood bath and these people seem to be happy to have their own kids killed in another failed PR campaign that is continually being exposed for what it is

See
Conclusive Proof Hamas Uses Palestinians as Human Shields

Quote
For example, several days ago, the Wall Street Journal published a photograph by Nick Casey of Hamas spokesman Mushir Al Masri using a local hospital as a backdrop to give interviews. The hospital and its patients served, in effect, as a shield for Masri to speak to reporters without being targeted by Israel. A few days after it was posted, the Journal had removed Casey’s photo from its website without explanation.
Meanwhile, a French journalist in Gaza, Radjaa Abu Dagga, published an article in the French newspaper Liberation, describing how when he was taken in for questioning by Hamas, the interrogators used a room in the Al Shifa hospital – proof that Hamas is using the hospital as a shield. But that article, too, was deleted from the Liberation web site after a short time.
But now the story is coming out, and there’s nothing that the Palestinian truth-deniers can do but yell “racist.”
End Quote

The co-writers of that propaganda piece are:

Moshe Phillips and Benyamin Korn are members of the board of the Religious Zionists of America.

You couldn't make this stuff up. Boston, you are great for a laugh.

In typical fashion, you have no credible rebuttal which leaves you to spam the thread with the same cut and paste you have used to spam multiple threads on multiple occasions.

How sad for you that Islamist terrorists can only be defended with your spam.

You always say that, but never bring any content, are you just a spam bot?

 

[montelatici]

Exactly Hollie, Israel is more than willing to make peace, but the Arab Muslim colonists seem happy to throw their lives away on a cause lost decades ago. I'm always surprised that palestinians parents will cheer on their own children as they die at ratios approaching 100 to 1 if not more, depends on how much they piss off the Israeli's.

Its a blood bath and these people seem to be happy to have their own kids killed in another failed PR campaign that is continually being exposed for what it is

See
Conclusive Proof Hamas Uses Palestinians as Human Shields

Quote
For example, several days ago, the Wall Street Journal published a photograph by Nick Casey of Hamas spokesman Mushir Al Masri using a local hospital as a backdrop to give interviews. The hospital and its patients served, in effect, as a shield for Masri to speak to reporters without being targeted by Israel. A few days after it was posted, the Journal had removed Casey’s photo from its website without explanation.
Meanwhile, a French journalist in Gaza, Radjaa Abu Dagga, published an article in the French newspaper Liberation, describing how when he was taken in for questioning by Hamas, the interrogators used a room in the Al Shifa hospital – proof that Hamas is using the hospital as a shield. But that article, too, was deleted from the Liberation web site after a short time.
But now the story is coming out, and there’s nothing that the Palestinian truth-deniers can do but yell “racist.”
End Quote

The co-writers of that propaganda piece are:

Moshe Phillips and Benyamin Korn are members of the board of the Religious Zionists of America.

You couldn't make this stuff up. Boston, you are great for a laugh.

So what, your an avid racist and bigot but you expect people to listen to your views.

and big deal if a zionist ( an idealist who supports the creation and protection of Israel ) Writes a piece exposing threats to Israel.


If you are really all that happy with the 100 to 1 kill ratio of Arab Muslim colonists to Israelis then fine, let the blood bath continue. Its your choice. In the end it only takes one to start a fight and sometimes that one insists on total defeat.

Israel will just fence the Arab Muslim colonialists in and wait them out. Which is a far cry better than how the Arab Muslim colonists have treated the Israeli's

The only colonists in Palestine are the Jews.

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ

July 25, 1926​

London (Jul. 23)
(Jewish Telegraphic Agency)
Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered.

“Due to the success of our colonization work in Palestine proper, it is possible that eventually our colonization work will be extended beyond the frontiers of Transjordania. It is true that the Palestine government has not taken a clear stand in regard to its economic policy, but well founded demands have every prospect of being agreed to. A great deal has been achieved during the last months,” Dr. Weizmann said."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ