What is the cause of kids commiting mass shootings in school ?

[Marion Morrison]

ding is a sociopathic derp, and his sig is too long, but whatcha gonna do?

 

[Flopper]

FF - I think you'll appreciate this piece:

What I Learned in the Peace Corps in Africa: Trump Is Right

Yes. A provocative piece and thank you. All too familiar with me as I know many who have worked among the world's poorest people. Some who still do. Where Christianity and sometimes the better side of Buddhism has taken hold, it is better. Still abject poverty but conscience and respect for life are present and that makes all the difference. It isn't America. But it is better.

What I see happening is the removal of conscience and respect for the individual being systematically destroyed in our American culture. As expression of religious faith and individual identity is more and more suppressed, those aspects of nihilism and moral relativism you cited early are becoming more and more obvious in all aspects of our culture that makes America the great nation that it is.

And that in turn I believe is a huge factor in what is providing incentive and is provoking the criminally inclined to do these horrendous bad acts.

Well said.

Western Civilization, based on Judeo-Christian-Greek philosophical roots, has been the most successful at liberating individuals, improving their material conditions, and increasing longevity. These are not coincidences. Throughout much of history, the status of the vast majority of people was slave, serf or indentured servant. Those who are trying to destroy Western Civ are intent on returning us to the state of slavery.

And they probably are less upset at the school shootings than they are eager to capitalize on them to hurry up that process. Of course the number one goal is to disarm us as that will make us much more unlikely to protest once their ambitions become obvious to all.

You responded before I edited to add the last line in my previous post:
"We sure don't want to import or encourage more people who will accelerate that trend regardless of who calls us 'racist' if we don't."

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

 

[boedicca]

Yes. A provocative piece and thank you. All too familiar with me as I know many who have worked among the world's poorest people. Some who still do. Where Christianity and sometimes the better side of Buddhism has taken hold, it is better. Still abject poverty but conscience and respect for life are present and that makes all the difference. It isn't America. But it is better.

What I see happening is the removal of conscience and respect for the individual being systematically destroyed in our American culture. As expression of religious faith and individual identity is more and more suppressed, those aspects of nihilism and moral relativism you cited early are becoming more and more obvious in all aspects of our culture that makes America the great nation that it is.

And that in turn I believe is a huge factor in what is providing incentive and is provoking the criminally inclined to do these horrendous bad acts.

Well said.

Western Civilization, based on Judeo-Christian-Greek philosophical roots, has been the most successful at liberating individuals, improving their material conditions, and increasing longevity. These are not coincidences. Throughout much of history, the status of the vast majority of people was slave, serf or indentured servant. Those who are trying to destroy Western Civ are intent on returning us to the state of slavery.

And they probably are less upset at the school shootings than they are eager to capitalize on them to hurry up that process. Of course the number one goal is to disarm us as that will make us much more unlikely to protest once their ambitions become obvious to all.

You responded before I edited to add the last line in my previous post:
"We sure don't want to import or encourage more people who will accelerate that trend regardless of who calls us 'racist' if we don't."

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

That's covered in the 2nd Amendment, bub.

 

[Flopper]

Well said.

Western Civilization, based on Judeo-Christian-Greek philosophical roots, has been the most successful at liberating individuals, improving their material conditions, and increasing longevity. These are not coincidences. Throughout much of history, the status of the vast majority of people was slave, serf or indentured servant. Those who are trying to destroy Western Civ are intent on returning us to the state of slavery.

And they probably are less upset at the school shootings than they are eager to capitalize on them to hurry up that process. Of course the number one goal is to disarm us as that will make us much more unlikely to protest once their ambitions become obvious to all.

You responded before I edited to add the last line in my previous post:
"We sure don't want to import or encourage more people who will accelerate that trend regardless of who calls us 'racist' if we don't."

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

That's covered in the 2nd Amendment, bub.

So the local militias will march on the US Capital with gun and pitchfork in hand to overthrow the government. I think I heard that one before.

 

[boedicca]

And they probably are less upset at the school shootings than they are eager to capitalize on them to hurry up that process. Of course the number one goal is to disarm us as that will make us much more unlikely to protest once their ambitions become obvious to all.

You responded before I edited to add the last line in my previous post:
"We sure don't want to import or encourage more people who will accelerate that trend regardless of who calls us 'racist' if we don't."

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

That's covered in the 2nd Amendment, bub.

So the local militias will march on the US Capital with gun and pitchfork in hand to overthrow the government. I think I heard that one before.

Here's what silly wabbits like you always forget: the Progs aren't the ones volunteering for the Armed Forces these days. If there is ever a need for the general population to take arms against our tyrannical government, most of the Armed Forces will take the side of The People.

 

[Flopper]

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

That's covered in the 2nd Amendment, bub.

So the local militias will march on the US Capital with gun and pitchfork in hand to overthrow the government. I think I heard that one before.

Here's what silly wabbits like you always forget: the Progs aren't the ones volunteering for the Armed Forces these days. If there is ever a need for the general population to take arms against our tyrannical government, most of the Armed Forces will take the side of The People.

In an insurrection, the military follows the brass.

The US is deeply and near equally divided. A minority on both sides say they would hypothetically support a coup. Of course the two sides violently disagree on what a new government would like. Add to that a large number of armed civilians on the streets and you have a bloody revolution that would end with a real tyrannical government far worse than what we have today. China or Russian would be the only winner.

 

[ding]

Yes. A provocative piece and thank you. All too familiar with me as I know many who have worked among the world's poorest people. Some who still do. Where Christianity and sometimes the better side of Buddhism has taken hold, it is better. Still abject poverty but conscience and respect for life are present and that makes all the difference. It isn't America. But it is better.

What I see happening is the removal of conscience and respect for the individual being systematically destroyed in our American culture. As expression of religious faith and individual identity is more and more suppressed, those aspects of nihilism and moral relativism you cited early are becoming more and more obvious in all aspects of our culture that makes America the great nation that it is.

And that in turn I believe is a huge factor in what is providing incentive and is provoking the criminally inclined to do these horrendous bad acts.

Well said.

Western Civilization, based on Judeo-Christian-Greek philosophical roots, has been the most successful at liberating individuals, improving their material conditions, and increasing longevity. These are not coincidences. Throughout much of history, the status of the vast majority of people was slave, serf or indentured servant. Those who are trying to destroy Western Civ are intent on returning us to the state of slavery.

And they probably are less upset at the school shootings than they are eager to capitalize on them to hurry up that process. Of course the number one goal is to disarm us as that will make us much more unlikely to protest once their ambitions become obvious to all.

You responded before I edited to add the last line in my previous post:
"We sure don't want to import or encourage more people who will accelerate that trend regardless of who calls us 'racist' if we don't."

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

Superior numbers.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

 

[ding]

And they probably are less upset at the school shootings than they are eager to capitalize on them to hurry up that process. Of course the number one goal is to disarm us as that will make us much more unlikely to protest once their ambitions become obvious to all.

You responded before I edited to add the last line in my previous post:
"We sure don't want to import or encourage more people who will accelerate that trend regardless of who calls us 'racist' if we don't."

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

That's covered in the 2nd Amendment, bub.

So the local militias will march on the US Capital with gun and pitchfork in hand to overthrow the government. I think I heard that one before.

No. They don't need to. They just need to stop THEM from enforcing unjust laws.

 

[boedicca]

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

That's covered in the 2nd Amendment, bub.

So the local militias will march on the US Capital with gun and pitchfork in hand to overthrow the government. I think I heard that one before.

Here's what silly wabbits like you always forget: the Progs aren't the ones volunteering for the Armed Forces these days. If there is ever a need for the general population to take arms against our tyrannical government, most of the Armed Forces will take the side of The People.

In an insurrection, the military follows the brass.

The US is deeply and near equally divided. A minority on both sides say they would hypothetically support a coup. Of course the two sides violently disagree on what a new government would like. Add to that a large numbers of armed civilians on the streets and you have a bloody revolution that would end with a real tyrannical government far worse than what we have today. China or Russian would the winner.

No. The military isn't obligated to follow the brass when the brass is violating The Constitution they are sworn to uphold.

I suggest you not test my theory, bub. It won't end well for the Progs.

 

[RWNJ]

Again, what decline are you referring too?

Moral standards; conduct; behaviors; values.

The problem is systemic. The signs are everywhere. All one has to do is look at the last two candidates we chose to run for the presidency.

Those are symptoms, not a cause.

No. As a society we have lowered our standards of conduct. That is the cause.

Circular nonsense. Again, lower standards are a symptom. They didn't just decline without a cause. Try identifying the root cause of The Decline.

I know it seems like a worn out argument, but I honestly believe the primary cause is an insidious progressivism that has slowly but relentless come to dominate our media, our education system, scientific institutions, and yes, our government.

Not all of it has emerged from bad intentions, but a lot of it has, namely that which seeks to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth along with an unhealthy motive to control what others are allowed to do, think, speak, believe.

And while there are always anecdotal exceptions to any trend the big picture shows results of:

Destruction or dilution of traditional values and the traditional home. An unacceptable number of children who grow up without a biological father in the home and children overall do not do as well personally, socially, academically, or economically as children from responsible traditional homes. Again a stunning fact: 26 of 27 of the most violent mass killers in American history grew up without their biological father in the home.

Increased hostility to religious faith that once tempered hatred and promoted peaceful solutions in both individuals and groups, but is now increasingly unwelcome in our institutions and in the public sphere in general.

Schools that no longer arm students with useful information and encourage critical thinking in how to use that information, but that indoctrinate with ideology as much as or more than they educate.

Scientific institutions that promote an agenda more than pure science .

A media that seeks to control what information is available to the people and no longer makes much attempt to report fairly, honestly, and with respect for their readers/viewers and that gives excessive coverage to violence and the militantly politically incorrect while giving short shrift to what is positive or constructive.

An entertainment industry--books, television, movies, video games--that promotes the anti-hero, gratuitous sex and violence, and generates sympathy for the criminal and social deviant or promotes doing socially unacceptable things for fun. At the same time it has almost eliminated the noble and normal hero and heroine or plots that emphasize traditional values and/or the best that we can be.

Government comprised of a permanent political class whose primary, perhaps sole focus is achieving and retaining ability to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and the personal wealth of those in it. It only throws enough bones to its constituencies to keep them voting and gives little more than lip service to actually solving problems.

I'm thinking the only way back to sanity is to have a second American Revolution. It's us or them. They will not go quietly. Freedom is not free. It must be paid for with the blood of Patriots. This is what's known as a truism. We will win our freedom back, or we will be ruled by despots. There is no third choice. Stand up and die for what you believe in, or become a slave.

 

[otto105]

Moral standards; conduct; behaviors; values.

The problem is systemic. The signs are everywhere. All one has to do is look at the last two candidates we chose to run for the presidency.

Those are symptoms, not a cause.

No. As a society we have lowered our standards of conduct. That is the cause.

Circular nonsense. Again, lower standards are a symptom. They didn't just decline without a cause. Try identifying the root cause of The Decline.

I know it seems like a worn out argument, but I honestly believe the primary cause is an insidious progressivism that has slowly but relentless come to dominate our media, our education system, scientific institutions, and yes, our government.

Not all of it has emerged from bad intentions, but a lot of it has, namely that which seeks to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth along with an unhealthy motive to control what others are allowed to do, think, speak, believe.

And while there are always anecdotal exceptions to any trend the big picture shows results of:

Destruction or dilution of traditional values and the traditional home. An unacceptable number of children who grow up without a biological father in the home and children overall do not do as well personally, socially, academically, or economically as children from responsible traditional homes. Again a stunning fact: 26 of 27 of the most violent mass killers in American history grew up without their biological father in the home.

Increased hostility to religious faith that once tempered hatred and promoted peaceful solutions in both individuals and groups, but is now increasingly unwelcome in our institutions and in the public sphere in general.

Schools that no longer arm students with useful information and encourage critical thinking in how to use that information, but that indoctrinate with ideology as much as or more than they educate.

Scientific institutions that promote an agenda more than pure science .

A media that seeks to control what information is available to the people and no longer makes much attempt to report fairly, honestly, and with respect for their readers/viewers and that gives excessive coverage to violence and the militantly politically incorrect while giving short shrift to what is positive or constructive.

An entertainment industry--books, television, movies, video games--that promotes the anti-hero, gratuitous sex and violence, and generates sympathy for the criminal and social deviant or promotes doing socially unacceptable things for fun. At the same time it has almost eliminated the noble and normal hero and heroine or plots that emphasize traditional values and/or the best that we can be.

Government comprised of a permanent political class whose primary, perhaps sole focus is achieving and retaining ability to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and the personal wealth of those in it. It only throws enough bones to its constituencies to keep them voting and gives little more than lip service to actually solving problems.

I'm thinking the only way back to sanity is to have a second American Revolution. It's us or them. They will not go quietly. Freedom is not free. It must be paid for with the blood of Patriots. This is what's known as a truism. We will win our freedom back, or we will be ruled by despots. There is no third choice. Stand up and die for what you believe in, or become a slave.

Whose "us" and "them"?

 

[boedicca]

Moral standards; conduct; behaviors; values.

The problem is systemic. The signs are everywhere. All one has to do is look at the last two candidates we chose to run for the presidency.

Those are symptoms, not a cause.

No. As a society we have lowered our standards of conduct. That is the cause.

Circular nonsense. Again, lower standards are a symptom. They didn't just decline without a cause. Try identifying the root cause of The Decline.

I know it seems like a worn out argument, but I honestly believe the primary cause is an insidious progressivism that has slowly but relentless come to dominate our media, our education system, scientific institutions, and yes, our government.

Not all of it has emerged from bad intentions, but a lot of it has, namely that which seeks to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth along with an unhealthy motive to control what others are allowed to do, think, speak, believe.

And while there are always anecdotal exceptions to any trend the big picture shows results of:

Destruction or dilution of traditional values and the traditional home. An unacceptable number of children who grow up without a biological father in the home and children overall do not do as well personally, socially, academically, or economically as children from responsible traditional homes. Again a stunning fact: 26 of 27 of the most violent mass killers in American history grew up without their biological father in the home.

Increased hostility to religious faith that once tempered hatred and promoted peaceful solutions in both individuals and groups, but is now increasingly unwelcome in our institutions and in the public sphere in general.

Schools that no longer arm students with useful information and encourage critical thinking in how to use that information, but that indoctrinate with ideology as much as or more than they educate.

Scientific institutions that promote an agenda more than pure science .

A media that seeks to control what information is available to the people and no longer makes much attempt to report fairly, honestly, and with respect for their readers/viewers and that gives excessive coverage to violence and the militantly politically incorrect while giving short shrift to what is positive or constructive.

An entertainment industry--books, television, movies, video games--that promotes the anti-hero, gratuitous sex and violence, and generates sympathy for the criminal and social deviant or promotes doing socially unacceptable things for fun. At the same time it has almost eliminated the noble and normal hero and heroine or plots that emphasize traditional values and/or the best that we can be.

Government comprised of a permanent political class whose primary, perhaps sole focus is achieving and retaining ability to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and the personal wealth of those in it. It only throws enough bones to its constituencies to keep them voting and gives little more than lip service to actually solving problems.

I'm thinking the only way back to sanity is to have a second American Revolution. It's us or them. They will not go quietly. Freedom is not free. It must be paid for with the blood of Patriots. This is what's known as a truism. We will win our freedom back, or we will be ruled by despots. There is no third choice. Stand up and die for what you believe in, or become a slave.

I have a better idea (inspired by Douglas Adams). Let's send all the Prog Elites to Mars on Elon Musk's planned space flights. Tell them we are saving them from Global Warming and setting them up in a new Utopian Paradise.

 

[otto105]

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

That's covered in the 2nd Amendment, bub.

So the local militias will march on the US Capital with gun and pitchfork in hand to overthrow the government. I think I heard that one before.

Here's what silly wabbits like you always forget: the Progs aren't the ones volunteering for the Armed Forces these days. If there is ever a need for the general population to take arms against our tyrannical government, most of the Armed Forces will take the side of The People.

In an insurrection, the military follows the brass.

The US is deeply and near equally divided. A minority on both sides say they would hypothetically support a coup. Of course the two sides violently disagree on what a new government would like. Add to that a large numbers of armed civilians on the streets and you have a bloody revolution that would end with a real tyrannical government far worse than what we have today. China or Russian would the winner.

No. The military isn't obligated to follow the brass when the brass is violating The Constitution they are sworn to uphold.

I suggest you not test my theory, bub. It won't end well for the Progs.

Sure, just look at what the last bunch of firing sticks from the south tried and achieved.

A long brown stain in their BVDs that still lasts today.

 

[otto105]

Those are symptoms, not a cause.

No. As a society we have lowered our standards of conduct. That is the cause.

Circular nonsense. Again, lower standards are a symptom. They didn't just decline without a cause. Try identifying the root cause of The Decline.

I know it seems like a worn out argument, but I honestly believe the primary cause is an insidious progressivism that has slowly but relentless come to dominate our media, our education system, scientific institutions, and yes, our government.

Not all of it has emerged from bad intentions, but a lot of it has, namely that which seeks to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth along with an unhealthy motive to control what others are allowed to do, think, speak, believe.

And while there are always anecdotal exceptions to any trend the big picture shows results of:

Destruction or dilution of traditional values and the traditional home. An unacceptable number of children who grow up without a biological father in the home and children overall do not do as well personally, socially, academically, or economically as children from responsible traditional homes. Again a stunning fact: 26 of 27 of the most violent mass killers in American history grew up without their biological father in the home.

Increased hostility to religious faith that once tempered hatred and promoted peaceful solutions in both individuals and groups, but is now increasingly unwelcome in our institutions and in the public sphere in general.

Schools that no longer arm students with useful information and encourage critical thinking in how to use that information, but that indoctrinate with ideology as much as or more than they educate.

Scientific institutions that promote an agenda more than pure science .

A media that seeks to control what information is available to the people and no longer makes much attempt to report fairly, honestly, and with respect for their readers/viewers and that gives excessive coverage to violence and the militantly politically incorrect while giving short shrift to what is positive or constructive.

An entertainment industry--books, television, movies, video games--that promotes the anti-hero, gratuitous sex and violence, and generates sympathy for the criminal and social deviant or promotes doing socially unacceptable things for fun. At the same time it has almost eliminated the noble and normal hero and heroine or plots that emphasize traditional values and/or the best that we can be.

Government comprised of a permanent political class whose primary, perhaps sole focus is achieving and retaining ability to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and the personal wealth of those in it. It only throws enough bones to its constituencies to keep them voting and gives little more than lip service to actually solving problems.

I'm thinking the only way back to sanity is to have a second American Revolution. It's us or them. They will not go quietly. Freedom is not free. It must be paid for with the blood of Patriots. This is what's known as a truism. We will win our freedom back, or we will be ruled by despots. There is no third choice. Stand up and die for what you believe in, or become a slave.

I have a better idea (inspired by Douglas Adams). Let's send all the Prog Elites to Mars on Elon Musk's planned space flights. Tell them we are saving them from Global Warming and setting them up in a new Utopian Paradise.

Sure, we can leave all your "patriots" in the path of a interstellar highway.

 

[boedicca]

No. As a society we have lowered our standards of conduct. That is the cause.

Circular nonsense. Again, lower standards are a symptom. They didn't just decline without a cause. Try identifying the root cause of The Decline.

I know it seems like a worn out argument, but I honestly believe the primary cause is an insidious progressivism that has slowly but relentless come to dominate our media, our education system, scientific institutions, and yes, our government.

Not all of it has emerged from bad intentions, but a lot of it has, namely that which seeks to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth along with an unhealthy motive to control what others are allowed to do, think, speak, believe.

And while there are always anecdotal exceptions to any trend the big picture shows results of:

Destruction or dilution of traditional values and the traditional home. An unacceptable number of children who grow up without a biological father in the home and children overall do not do as well personally, socially, academically, or economically as children from responsible traditional homes. Again a stunning fact: 26 of 27 of the most violent mass killers in American history grew up without their biological father in the home.

Increased hostility to religious faith that once tempered hatred and promoted peaceful solutions in both individuals and groups, but is now increasingly unwelcome in our institutions and in the public sphere in general.

Schools that no longer arm students with useful information and encourage critical thinking in how to use that information, but that indoctrinate with ideology as much as or more than they educate.

Scientific institutions that promote an agenda more than pure science .

A media that seeks to control what information is available to the people and no longer makes much attempt to report fairly, honestly, and with respect for their readers/viewers and that gives excessive coverage to violence and the militantly politically incorrect while giving short shrift to what is positive or constructive.

An entertainment industry--books, television, movies, video games--that promotes the anti-hero, gratuitous sex and violence, and generates sympathy for the criminal and social deviant or promotes doing socially unacceptable things for fun. At the same time it has almost eliminated the noble and normal hero and heroine or plots that emphasize traditional values and/or the best that we can be.

Government comprised of a permanent political class whose primary, perhaps sole focus is achieving and retaining ability to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and the personal wealth of those in it. It only throws enough bones to its constituencies to keep them voting and gives little more than lip service to actually solving problems.

I'm thinking the only way back to sanity is to have a second American Revolution. It's us or them. They will not go quietly. Freedom is not free. It must be paid for with the blood of Patriots. This is what's known as a truism. We will win our freedom back, or we will be ruled by despots. There is no third choice. Stand up and die for what you believe in, or become a slave.

I have a better idea (inspired by Douglas Adams). Let's send all the Prog Elites to Mars on Elon Musk's planned space flights. Tell them we are saving them from Global Warming and setting them up in a new Utopian Paradise.

Sure, we can leave all your "patriots" in the path of a interstellar highway.

As if. But you can listen to the Vogon poetry while in transit, bub.

 

[Flopper]

Well said.

Western Civilization, based on Judeo-Christian-Greek philosophical roots, has been the most successful at liberating individuals, improving their material conditions, and increasing longevity. These are not coincidences. Throughout much of history, the status of the vast majority of people was slave, serf or indentured servant. Those who are trying to destroy Western Civ are intent on returning us to the state of slavery.

And they probably are less upset at the school shootings than they are eager to capitalize on them to hurry up that process. Of course the number one goal is to disarm us as that will make us much more unlikely to protest once their ambitions become obvious to all.

You responded before I edited to add the last line in my previous post:
"We sure don't want to import or encourage more people who will accelerate that trend regardless of who calls us 'racist' if we don't."

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

Superior numbers.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but things have changed just a bit since 1787. 61 million people on Social Security and Medicare, 74 million receiving Medicaid, and the 21 million government workers are not likely to support a rebellion that would take down the government. 44% of Democrats and those leaning left are gun owners. Instead of an armed citizen's march on Washington to take back the country, you are much more likely to see bloody riots and heavy property damage across the country as conservatives fight liberals, blacks fight whites, and those that fight keep the government fight those who want to destroy it.

Something else that has changed since 1787 is the almost universal fear are standing armies which is why there was such wide spread support of the militias and of course the right to bear arms. Today, there is wide spread support for our military and most peoples view of view of militias is negative.

 

[ding]

Moral standards; conduct; behaviors; values.

The problem is systemic. The signs are everywhere. All one has to do is look at the last two candidates we chose to run for the presidency.

Those are symptoms, not a cause.

No. As a society we have lowered our standards of conduct. That is the cause.

Circular nonsense. Again, lower standards are a symptom. They didn't just decline without a cause. Try identifying the root cause of The Decline.

I know it seems like a worn out argument, but I honestly believe the primary cause is an insidious progressivism that has slowly but relentless come to dominate our media, our education system, scientific institutions, and yes, our government.

Not all of it has emerged from bad intentions, but a lot of it has, namely that which seeks to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth along with an unhealthy motive to control what others are allowed to do, think, speak, believe.

And while there are always anecdotal exceptions to any trend the big picture shows results of:

Destruction or dilution of traditional values and the traditional home. An unacceptable number of children who grow up without a biological father in the home and children overall do not do as well personally, socially, academically, or economically as children from responsible traditional homes. Again a stunning fact: 26 of 27 of the most violent mass killers in American history grew up without their biological father in the home.

Increased hostility to religious faith that once tempered hatred and promoted peaceful solutions in both individuals and groups, but is now increasingly unwelcome in our institutions and in the public sphere in general.

Schools that no longer arm students with useful information and encourage critical thinking in how to use that information, but that indoctrinate with ideology as much as or more than they educate.

Scientific institutions that promote an agenda more than pure science .

A media that seeks to control what information is available to the people and no longer makes much attempt to report fairly, honestly, and with respect for their readers/viewers and that gives excessive coverage to violence and the militantly politically incorrect while giving short shrift to what is positive or constructive.

An entertainment industry--books, television, movies, video games--that promotes the anti-hero, gratuitous sex and violence, and generates sympathy for the criminal and social deviant or promotes doing socially unacceptable things for fun. At the same time it has almost eliminated the noble and normal hero and heroine or plots that emphasize traditional values and/or the best that we can be.

Government comprised of a permanent political class whose primary, perhaps sole focus is achieving and retaining ability to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and the personal wealth of those in it. It only throws enough bones to its constituencies to keep them voting and gives little more than lip service to actually solving problems.

I'm thinking the only way back to sanity is to have a second American Revolution. It's us or them. They will not go quietly. Freedom is not free. It must be paid for with the blood of Patriots. This is what's known as a truism. We will win our freedom back, or we will be ruled by despots. There is no third choice. Stand up and die for what you believe in, or become a slave.

That doesn't make any sense.

How about a constitutional convention instead but only when the numbers are right in the states.

 

[ding]

And they probably are less upset at the school shootings than they are eager to capitalize on them to hurry up that process. Of course the number one goal is to disarm us as that will make us much more unlikely to protest once their ambitions become obvious to all.

You responded before I edited to add the last line in my previous post:
"We sure don't want to import or encourage more people who will accelerate that trend regardless of who calls us 'racist' if we don't."

So you would be less likely to protest without a gun? Liberals seem to do pretty well protesting without firearms.

I was probably too subtle in my post. My point is that once the Constitution is trashed and the people are disarmed, and a totalitarian government is in place, the people are in a much less strong position to protest anything.

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

Superior numbers.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but things have changed just a bit since 1787. 61 million people on Social Security and Medicare, 74 million receiving Medicaid, and the 21 million government workers are not likely to support a rebellion that would take down the government. 44% of Democrats and those leaning left are gun owners. Instead of an armed citizen's march on Washington to take back the country, you are much more likely to see bloody riots and heavy property damage across the country as conservatives fight liberals, blacks fight whites, and those that fight keep the government fight those who want to destroy it.

Something else that has changed since 1787 is the almost universal fear are standing armies which is why there was such wide spread support of the militias and of course the right to bear arms. Today, there is wide spread support for our military and most peoples view of view of militias is negative.

When did I say anything about a rebellion?

 

[Flopper]

How exactly is having firearms going to help?

That's covered in the 2nd Amendment, bub.

So the local militias will march on the US Capital with gun and pitchfork in hand to overthrow the government. I think I heard that one before.

Here's what silly wabbits like you always forget: the Progs aren't the ones volunteering for the Armed Forces these days. If there is ever a need for the general population to take arms against our tyrannical government, most of the Armed Forces will take the side of The People.

In an insurrection, the military follows the brass.

The US is deeply and near equally divided. A minority on both sides say they would hypothetically support a coup. Of course the two sides violently disagree on what a new government would like. Add to that a large numbers of armed civilians on the streets and you have a bloody revolution that would end with a real tyrannical government far worse than what we have today. China or Russian would the winner.

No. The military isn't obligated to follow the brass when the brass is violating The Constitution they are sworn to uphold.

I suggest you not test my theory, bub. It won't end well for the Progs.

A peaceful uprising against blatantly unconstitutional action by the government (for instance, Congress and the Supreme Court declaring the clear loser of a presidential election to be the new president) would probably be supported by the armed forces precisely because of their oath to support the Constitution.

However, government actions such as gun control for public safety, or presidential orders overstepping authority, violent actions by a militia, or any government actions that draws legal debate on both sides would not likely draw any rebellious military intervention.

Military personnel might support an uprising but if there is little support in the leadership such as the Joint Chiefs the rebellion would be crushed. And if the rebellion failed those in military that supported it would suffer dire consequences. This is probably why there has never been large scale support for any rebellion within the US military.

 

[ChrisL]

Those are symptoms, not a cause.

No. As a society we have lowered our standards of conduct. That is the cause.

Circular nonsense. Again, lower standards are a symptom. They didn't just decline without a cause. Try identifying the root cause of The Decline.

I know it seems like a worn out argument, but I honestly believe the primary cause is an insidious progressivism that has slowly but relentless come to dominate our media, our education system, scientific institutions, and yes, our government.

Not all of it has emerged from bad intentions, but a lot of it has, namely that which seeks to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth along with an unhealthy motive to control what others are allowed to do, think, speak, believe.

And while there are always anecdotal exceptions to any trend the big picture shows results of:

Destruction or dilution of traditional values and the traditional home. An unacceptable number of children who grow up without a biological father in the home and children overall do not do as well personally, socially, academically, or economically as children from responsible traditional homes. Again a stunning fact: 26 of 27 of the most violent mass killers in American history grew up without their biological father in the home.

Increased hostility to religious faith that once tempered hatred and promoted peaceful solutions in both individuals and groups, but is now increasingly unwelcome in our institutions and in the public sphere in general.

Schools that no longer arm students with useful information and encourage critical thinking in how to use that information, but that indoctrinate with ideology as much as or more than they educate.

Scientific institutions that promote an agenda more than pure science .

A media that seeks to control what information is available to the people and no longer makes much attempt to report fairly, honestly, and with respect for their readers/viewers and that gives excessive coverage to violence and the militantly politically incorrect while giving short shrift to what is positive or constructive.

An entertainment industry--books, television, movies, video games--that promotes the anti-hero, gratuitous sex and violence, and generates sympathy for the criminal and social deviant or promotes doing socially unacceptable things for fun. At the same time it has almost eliminated the noble and normal hero and heroine or plots that emphasize traditional values and/or the best that we can be.

Government comprised of a permanent political class whose primary, perhaps sole focus is achieving and retaining ability to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and the personal wealth of those in it. It only throws enough bones to its constituencies to keep them voting and gives little more than lip service to actually solving problems.

I'm thinking the only way back to sanity is to have a second American Revolution. It's us or them. They will not go quietly. Freedom is not free. It must be paid for with the blood of Patriots. This is what's known as a truism. We will win our freedom back, or we will be ruled by despots. There is no third choice. Stand up and die for what you believe in, or become a slave.

I have a better idea (inspired by Douglas Adams). Let's send all the Prog Elites to Mars on Elon Musk's planned space flights. Tell them we are saving them from Global Warming and setting them up in a new Utopian Paradise.

Lol! If only.