What Is Wrong With America ?

[Uncensored2008]

yes, the 2 party system enables corruption

Thus you push for one party rule?

Would you outlaw any opposition to or questioning of the democratic party?

 

[Contumacious]

What Is Wrong With America ?

The Federal Reserve

Too many government regulations

Redistributation of wealth

Obama and Obamacare

 

[protectionist]

What does it say about you and your unhinged ideology that you consider reacting to reality to be "fearful reactionaryism"? What does it say that you consider $17 trillion in unsustainable debt to be "sound" economic policy?

Oh - and by the way - the Constitution leaves no room for any "social" policy. You would know that if you actually took the time to read the Constitution.

Returning to Constitutional government is the entire platform of the Tea Party and will solve all problems the U.S. currently faces. I guess like all liberals the fear of losing your gravy train simply wields too much power over you?

The problem outlined in Posts # 1291, 1306, 1307, and 1308 could be the biggest problem America has ever faced. Since you said returning to Constitutional government "will solve all problems the U.S. currently faces", that would include the vulnerability of the electric power grid. How will returning to Constitutional government solve this problem ?

Well, it depends which "vulnerability" of our power grid you are referring to.

If you're referring to China having code on our grid which would allow them to shut down the grid at any time they want, that is a national security issue. And since defense is the Constitutional responsibility of the federal government, then returning to Constitutional government would clearly solve this issue. Lowering taxes because we don't have to pay for unconstitutional shit will put more people back to work - giving the federal government a larger base to draw taxes from. At the same time, we can divert a portion of those unconstitutional funds (the parts not eliminated by lowering taxes) to defense.

Now, if you're referring to your stuff about San Jose, returning to Constitutional government will resolve that by placing responsibility back where it belongs - to the local municipalities and to the people. For example - I'm not the least bit concerned about the power grid getting knocked out. You know why? Because I have a full-home generator. Everything in my home - from dire necessities (such as heating) to frivolous luxuries (such as A/C) run flawlessly when power is out. My employer? Nearly every facility they have also has a backup generator.

Furthermore, as outlined above, eliminating the crushing taxes for unconstitutional socialism will put people back to work and thus create a larger base from which to draw taxes from for the local municipalities. This means more funds for security, redundancy, etc.

Next?

You're not ready for next. There is still your responses I shall now address.

1. Yes China has infiltrated our grid, and so has Russia. These need to be dealt with as a severe national security issue. It could also be noted though that the likelihood of our grid being wrecked by these countries, is lessened by both military and economic factors. There is still the nuclear war mutual deterrent. In the case of China especially, while its common to hear how dominant they are economically, they are dependent upon America for our massive MARKET. Pat Buchanan once said "If we had a trade war with China, we'd eat their lunch." In general though, I'd agree with you on this point..

2. There a number of ways of looking at the issue of lowering taxes. One is the scenario you present, which I (and most Americans) reject as Reaganist, trickle-down poppycock. You're entitled to that opinion, in any case.
Another, is one which I must have posted 100 times in this forum. That is by RAISING taxes (greatly) upon the richest individuals, we can put people back to work, paying them from these added funds. They can be hired to work directly on our most dangerous infrastructure problems (the electric grid, Wolf Creek Dam, California delta levees) keeping these secure. Many more can be hired as ICE agents, CBP officers, building the Mexican border double fence, shoring up airport and port security, and creating more immigration courts and jails. This could facilitate a mass deportation program similar to Eisenhower's 1954 Operation Wetback, which would save hundreds of billions in welfare payouts to illegal alien families, and open up the working illegals' jobs to Americans, who would then pay more tax $ (due to their higher wages) and save the US economy tens of Billions$$ per year in lost remittances, as the replacement Americans will not wire $40 Billion/yr out of the country, but instead will go out and spend in their US stores (AKA the economy)

3. While you and your employer may have your immediate electrical devices covered, there are outer social ramifications that would hit all of us in the event of a large power grid breakdown. Water and fuel, which depend on electric pumps, would stop flowing in most cities within hours, modern communications would end, and mechanized transport would stall. Your TV might operate, but there might not be anything transmitting to it. Traffic lights would konk out, as would street lamppost lights, and driving would be chaos and dangerous. Hospital machinery, dependent on power, could stop, killing many patients. Manufacture of thousands of products (including food) could halt. What food does get made, could be halted by the stoppage of transportation. Computers everywhere could shut down, causing a massive cascading collapse of secondary users. Backup generators for hospitals, the military, and other critical facilities would be vulnerable if they depended on diesel or natural gas, which also rely on pipelines for resupply.

Then there's the question of How will you transport yourself if a) your vehicle doesn’t run because the computers are fried or b) it runs but you can’t get gas because the pumps at the station run on electricity? How will you get food if the grocery stores are closed ? (when they can't get any food shipped in)

 

[Contumacious]

[

Then there's the question of How will you transport yourself if a) your vehicle doesn’t run because the computers are fried or b) it runs but you can’t get gas because the pumps at the station run on electricity? How will you get food if the grocery stores are closed ? (since they can't get any food shipped in)

Yet you are still clamoring for more welfare/warfare , elitism. parastism , stazi police state policies , economic interventionism which are the root causes of the problems you described.

 

[protectionist]

[

Then there's the question of How will you transport yourself if a) your vehicle doesn’t run because the computers are fried or b) it runs but you can’t get gas because the pumps at the station run on electricity? How will you get food if the grocery stores are closed ? (since they can't get any food shipped in)

Yet you are still clamoring for more welfare/warfare , elitism. parastism , stazi police state policies , economic interventionism which are the root causes of the problems you described.

This is one of those posts where initially all I can do is sit here stunned, and say "HUH ??"

1. When did I ever say we should have "more welfare" ? I fact, I've repeatedly suggested ways to massively REDUCE it (one example is in the post immediately before yours - # 1343, paragraph # 2)

2. "Elitism" ?? You've got me there.

3. "Parasitism". Again > see Post # 1343, (Paragraph # 2)

4. "stazi police state policies" - totally

5. Without economic interventionism (which every national security leader advocates in this issue) nothing could be done to avert power grid failure. In fact, it is the LACK of economic interventionism that has caused this problem to manifest (by NERC not enforcing its rules to power companies, and the govt not chipping in either)

 

[protectionist]

well then they hide their INCOME also, and I give ways to get at that.

The truly wealthy have no wage income.

I would agree with those on the left that want a tax on stocks which would get at the wealth of the rich also.

And would cause our economy to implode.

Most of US tax revenue is from individual taxes. There is almost 5 times as much brought in from individual income tax as from corporation income tax. These individual taxes could be raised on the super wage income rich, with almost no effect to the economy. In fact, it could help the economy immensely by providing jobs to end illegal immigration, and stop the remittance drain from the US economy ($40 Billion/yr, $25 Billion to Mexico alone) + it would end the huge welfare drain to illegal alien families, using false documentation and the anchor baby racket.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205

 

[protectionist]

Guy, here's the thing. Besides your questionable claims about "working 18 hours a day for months". When I was in college, I worked two minimum wage jobs and was in the National Guard. And I did this to get the good college degree job after college. And for a while that worked just fine.

Then you got a government job and never worked another day in your life.

Firefighters and the troops in Afghanistan are government jobs, and nobody works harder than them (especially considering the risks)

 

[RKMBrown]

well then they hide their INCOME also, and I give ways to get at that.

The truly wealthy have no wage income.

I would agree with those on the left that want a tax on stocks which would get at the wealth of the rich also.

And would cause our economy to implode.

Most of US tax revenue is from individual taxes. There is almost 5 times as much brought in from individual income tax as from corporation income tax. These individual taxes could be raised on the super wage income rich, with almost no effect to the economy. In fact, it could help the economy immensely by providing jobs to end illegal immigration, and stop the remittance drain from the US economy ($40 Billion/yr, $25 Billion to Mexico alone) + it would end the huge welfare drain to illegal alien families, using false documentation and the anchor baby racket.

Historical Source of Revenue as Share of GDP

Yeah and we could take 100% of YOUR assets and YOUR ss checks and YOUR pension and put you in debtors prison where we whip you and force you to work for us till you die, and no one would give a shit about you. But it would help the economy as right now you are nothing but an anchor. In fact, it would help the economy immensely by providing entertainment for everyone and setting an example of what will happen to others like you if they keep pushing for government to make slaves of us. I mean cmon let's make a real example out of YOU!

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, here's the thing. Besides your questionable claims about "working 18 hours a day for months". When I was in college, I worked two minimum wage jobs and was in the National Guard. And I did this to get the good college degree job after college. And for a while that worked just fine.

Then you got a government job and never worked another day in your life.

Firefighters and the troops in Afghanistan are government jobs, and nobody works harder than them (especially considering the risks)

Which is pretty much the only government job I ever had, was in the military...

 

[P@triot]

The problem outlined in Posts # 1291, 1306, 1307, and 1308 could be the biggest problem America has ever faced. Since you said returning to Constitutional government "will solve all problems the U.S. currently faces", that would include the vulnerability of the electric power grid. How will returning to Constitutional government solve this problem ?

Well, it depends which "vulnerability" of our power grid you are referring to.

If you're referring to China having code on our grid which would allow them to shut down the grid at any time they want, that is a national security issue. And since defense is the Constitutional responsibility of the federal government, then returning to Constitutional government would clearly solve this issue. Lowering taxes because we don't have to pay for unconstitutional shit will put more people back to work - giving the federal government a larger base to draw taxes from. At the same time, we can divert a portion of those unconstitutional funds (the parts not eliminated by lowering taxes) to defense.

Now, if you're referring to your stuff about San Jose, returning to Constitutional government will resolve that by placing responsibility back where it belongs - to the local municipalities and to the people. For example - I'm not the least bit concerned about the power grid getting knocked out. You know why? Because I have a full-home generator. Everything in my home - from dire necessities (such as heating) to frivolous luxuries (such as A/C) run flawlessly when power is out. My employer? Nearly every facility they have also has a backup generator.

Furthermore, as outlined above, eliminating the crushing taxes for unconstitutional socialism will put people back to work and thus create a larger base from which to draw taxes from for the local municipalities. This means more funds for security, redundancy, etc.

Next?

You're not ready for next. There is still your responses I shall now address.

1. Yes China has infiltrated our grid, and so has Russia. These need to be dealt with as a severe national security issue. It could also be noted though that the likelihood of our grid being wrecked by these countries, is lessened by both military and economic factors. There is still the nuclear war mutual deterrent. In the case of China especially, while its common to hear how dominant they are economically, they are dependent upon America for our massive MARKET. Pat Buchanan once said "If we had a trade war with China, we'd eat their lunch." In general though, I'd agree with you on this point..

2. There a number of ways of looking at the issue of lowering taxes. One is the scenario you present, which I (and most Americans) reject as Reaganist, trickle-down poppycock. You're entitled to that opinion, in any case.
Another, is one which I must have posted 100 times in this forum. That is by RAISING taxes (greatly) upon the richest individuals, we can put people back to work, paying them from these added funds. They can be hired to work directly on our most dangerous infrastructure problems (the electric grid, Wolf Creek Dam, California delta levees) keeping these secure. Many more can be hired as ICE agents, CBP officers, building the Mexican border double fence, shoring up airport and port security, and creating more immigration courts and jails. This could facilitate a mass deportation program similar to Eisenhower's 1954 Operation Wetback, which would save hundreds of billions in welfare payouts to illegal alien families, and open up the working illegals' jobs to Americans, who would then pay more tax $ (due to their higher wages) and save the US economy tens of Billions$$ per year in lost remittances, as the replacement Americans will not wire $40 Billion/yr out of the country, but instead will go out and spend in their US stores (AKA the economy)

3. While you and your employer may have your immediate electrical devices covered, there are outer social ramifications that would hit all of us in the event of a large power grid breakdown. Water and fuel, which depend on electric pumps, would stop flowing in most cities within hours, modern communications would end, and mechanized transport would stall. Your TV might operate, but there might not be anything transmitting to it. Traffic lights would konk out, as would street lamppost lights, and driving would be chaos and dangerous. Hospital machinery, dependent on power, could stop, killing many patients. Manufacture of thousands of products (including food) could halt. What food does get made, could be halted by the stoppage of transportation. Computers everywhere could shut down, causing a massive cascading collapse of secondary users. Backup generators for hospitals, the military, and other critical facilities would be vulnerable if they depended on diesel or natural gas, which also rely on pipelines for resupply.

Then there's the question of How will you transport yourself if a) your vehicle doesn’t run because the computers are fried or b) it runs but you can’t get gas because the pumps at the station run on electricity? How will you get food if the grocery stores are closed ? (when they can't get any food shipped in)

First of all, since we are the world's premier superpower and the world's premier nuclear superpower, who in the hell is going to detonate 4,000 EMP's across America? There isn't a nation-state in the world that would even think about executing something like that. They would be nuked out of existence before lunch time.

So what does that leave? Terrorist organizations without a nation to nuke. Not even Al Qaeda has the finances, resources, and most importantly - people to detonate 4,000 EMP's coast-to-coast. Basically, they would be able detonate one EMP in one city. Hardly enough to to make America blink much less "knock us back into the 19th century". Would have no more effect on our nation than 9/11.

So your literally attempting to create the most absurd and bizarre scenario to justify your unconstitutional position. Sorry, you have to do better than that.

Secondly, regarding your second point, like most unhinged and uninformed liberals, you cite local issues (damns, levees, security for both, etc.) as justification for raising taxes at the federal level. Sorry, doesn't work. Again, you have to do better than that.

If you want to raise taxes at the local level, I support you 100%. Go for it junior! Just know that your city will end up like Detroit - a bankrupt, 3rd world shit-hole. But the fact remains, federal taxes desperately need to be cut deeply.

The fact is, "trickle down" is just the libtard name for capitalism. It is a proven, flawless system. Reagan took over the second worst economy in U.S. history and created an economic tidal wave which the nation rode for about 30 years (until Clinton's ignorant socialist policies finally collapsed the tidal wave).

Poor people don't create jobs. Ever. Wealthy people do. The more you tax and punish them, the less they will have to invest in the economy. Detroit (bankrupt) proved that you're wrong and I am right. California ($70 billion in debt) proved that you're wrong and I am right. Cuba (60 years of perpetual poverty) proved that you're wrong and I am right.

 

[P@triot]

I doubt the figures you use here, the rich hide a lot of their wealth. But even if you are totally correct it does not mean we shouldn't raise those taxes to take a bite out of the fiscal mess.

I have seen historic figures that show no matter what party is in office spending stays relatively constant at say 23% of GDP (cant remember the actual number but I believe it is around there) Revenue as a % of GDP has however fallen in recent years. That indicates that at least part of the problem is too low of tax rate on the rich.

Think of the absurd "logic" behind that statement. Because both parties have turned radical liberal over the past 30 years, that means what they are doing must be right or ok?

23% of GDP is beyond outrageous. A quarter of our entire economy goes just to fund the federal government?!?! And you find that acceptable?!? Anyone who finds that total even remotely acceptable is seriously ignorant.

It's amazing how liberals can't take a whopping 8 minutes of their life to actually read the Constitution.

25% would make sense if we were in the middle of a world war and most of the money was going to the war effort. But as it stands most of our military spending is going to policing efforts around the planet, and most of our budget is for DC plutocrats who do nothing at all for us but piss our money away on extravagant conferences, and lobster dinners. I just don't see the need for us to be the worlds police force and to keep funding this aristocracy.

Actually, it's much worse than that. Most of our spending isn't even military. It's unconstitutional entitlements (over $1 trillion per year). Our defense budget is only roughly $560 billion per year.

 

[RKMBrown]

Think of the absurd "logic" behind that statement. Because both parties have turned radical liberal over the past 30 years, that means what they are doing must be right or ok?

23% of GDP is beyond outrageous. A quarter of our entire economy goes just to fund the federal government?!?! And you find that acceptable?!? Anyone who finds that total even remotely acceptable is seriously ignorant.

It's amazing how liberals can't take a whopping 8 minutes of their life to actually read the Constitution.

25% would make sense if we were in the middle of a world war and most of the money was going to the war effort. But as it stands most of our military spending is going to policing efforts around the planet, and most of our budget is for DC plutocrats who do nothing at all for us but piss our money away on extravagant conferences, and lobster dinners. I just don't see the need for us to be the worlds police force and to keep funding this aristocracy.

Actually, it's much worse than that. Most of our spending isn't even military. It's unconstitutional entitlements (over $1 trillion per year). Our defense budget is only roughly $560 billion per year.

Well... you have to separate SS & medicare from entitlements. (for now) Yeah the dems want to make it welfare but so far it's not entirely welfare.

Additionally a lot of the budget goes to federal retirees government and military.

Pretty sure after you scrape away SS, Medicare, and federal pensions.. your pretty much left with the DOD (DHS included) as the biggest expense with welfare and interest coming close behind.

 

[RKMBrown]

Look at this crap. We spend as much on the TSA as we do on immigration enforcement.

Really? WTF?

 

[P@triot]

Think of the absurd "logic" behind that statement. Because both parties have turned radical liberal over the past 30 years, that means what they are doing must be right or ok?

23% of GDP is beyond outrageous. A quarter of our entire economy goes just to fund the federal government?!?! And you find that acceptable?!? Anyone who finds that total even remotely acceptable is seriously ignorant.

It's amazing how liberals can't take a whopping 8 minutes of their life to actually read the Constitution.

Bear in mind that those are absolutely NOT my words that you quoted.

The quote you responded to Rot is actually mine.

You may think 23% is outlandish but none of your party have reduced it when they had the power. Neither party has that was a main point of the post.

And that is the problem. And no - that was not the "main point of the post". You just tried (irrationally) to use it as justification for your main point - which is that you believe we need to punish the wealthy for their success and increase taxes on them.

I think federal spending needs to be cut also, but I also think the tax rate needs to be increased, especially on the wealthy.

What does reading the Constitution have to do with this?, I dare say I've read it more than you and know it better than you.

What does the Constitution have to do with anything?

It has everything to do with everything. We didn't get $17 trillion in debt because the federal government adhered to the 18 enumerated powers delegated to them in the U.S. Constitution. We have reached $17 trillion in debt because the federal government has unconstitutionally taken control of every facet of American life (education, transportation, masturbation, arts, parks, housing, farming & food, gaming, technology, energy, communications, clothing, fire, holocaust history, science, healthcare, carpet, animals, watches, power tools, firearms, movies, and endless more).

 

[P@triot]

I say

the rich hide a lot of their wealth

, implied in that statement is that we should find it and tax it. I have said before in this forum that the tax-exemption of municipal bonds should be rescinded, that seemingly would satisfy conservatives who see the wasteful projects those bonds often fund, and "liberals" and others like you who want to get at Soros money etc. I also think capital gains should be taxed at regular income tax rates.

You say the rich hide a lot of their wealth, but wealth isn't taxed, INCOME is.

The fact that you are avoiding is that the class warfare you wage on behalf of your party is aimed purely at the middle class.

The left is waging war to eradicate the middle class. This hasn't changed since the days of Karl Marx, the left has always sought to end the middle class.

They are too dumb to realize that the ultra wealthy has the resources (attorneys, accountants, connections, global access, "tax shelters", offshore accounts, etc.) to defeat them every time. It's the middle class that the left is decimating.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Liberals

 

[thereisnospoon]

Please be brief. I will briefly state that there probably are 100 things (or more) wrong with America, but I will state just one for now >>

America is too much run by rich people. Members of Congress, the President and Vice-President, and members of the Supreme Court are generally all rich people. What do they know about middle class, lower middle class, and poor people's lives ? How can they make decisions about things they have no experience with, or have long forgotten from years past ? When have these people ever been unemployed, and out looking for a job, with a wide variety of things being used against them ? (credit reports, smear talk from former employers often untrue, etc). The last time I applied for a job I was told I would never get hired because employers require RECENT employment in that job occupation (within last 2 years). There's probably a long list of ways people can be denied a job, that shouldn't exist, and don't make sense.

Our senators and house members are career politicians rather than citizen legislators.

 

[protectionist]

Look at this crap. We spend as much on the TSA as we do on immigration enforcement.

Really? WTF?

I think you might have that wrong. Immigration enforcement isn't just ICE, it is CBP too (AKA Border Patrol). Coast Guard also participates in immigration enforcement.

 

[protectionist]

The truly wealthy have no wage income.

And would cause our economy to implode.

Most of US tax revenue is from individual taxes. There is almost 5 times as much brought in from individual income tax as from corporation income tax. These individual taxes could be raised on the super wage income rich, with almost no effect to the economy. In fact, it could help the economy immensely by providing jobs to end illegal immigration, and stop the remittance drain from the US economy ($40 Billion/yr, $25 Billion to Mexico alone) + it would end the huge welfare drain to illegal alien families, using false documentation and the anchor baby racket.

Historical Source of Revenue as Share of GDP

Yeah and we could take 100% of YOUR assets and YOUR ss checks and YOUR pension and put you in debtors prison where we whip you and force you to work for us till you die, and no one would give a shit about you. But it would help the economy as right now you are nothing but an anchor. In fact, it would help the economy immensely by providing entertainment for everyone and setting an example of what will happen to others like you if they keep pushing for government to make slaves of us. I mean cmon let's make a real example out of YOU!

So does this mean you are part of that super rich employee class ? Do you gross $100 million/year, like Johnny Depp ? Or $78 million/year like Tiger Woods ? If not, what's up with YOUR loud mouth about it ?

1. Yeah, you could take 100% of MY assets, and my ss checks, and MY pension, and put me in debtors prison where you whip me and force me to work for us till I die, except for one thing. Everybody DOES give a shit about me, and that's why we HAVE Social Security, and Veteran's pensions, and that's WHY I get them. Because unlike your deranged (or incrediblly stupid) mindset, the overwhelming majority of Americans know that I am much more than an anchor. They know that I am what supported them with my taxes paid for 50 years, when generations of them were kids, and that I served in the US military to defend them.

2. Make slaves of you ? HA HA HA HA HA HA!! This is the most HA's I've ever posted. A record 6.
EARTH TO RKM: Johnny Depp's $100 million at 70% tax, would leave him with ONLY a measly, scanty, wee, puny $30 million/year. Whatever would that poor baby do with that microscopic amount of money, after we've made a such a wretched slave of him ?

 

[protectionist]

Then you got a government job and never worked another day in your life.

Firefighters and the troops in Afghanistan are government jobs, and nobody works harder than them (especially considering the risks)

Which is pretty much the only government job I ever had, was in the military...

Me too. Thanks for your service.