What Liberals Believe...

[cheetah440]

Great post from the OP. Reminds me of the liberal in MA, our esteemed AG who is quoted as saying "We try and discourage people from self help ".

Just think about that statement. What a truly frightening thing to say. She should be run out of office for saying such a thing, instead, she'' have a government hack job for life.

It's the liberal way.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh, wait.

The book, "From Opportunity to Entitlement" was published in 1996.

Is this the one you mean?

The review says, "Davies traces in telling detail the process by which American liberals in the 1960s moved to the left in their thinking about approaches to dealing with poverty."

So, let's see.....

It is 2012.

The book was written sixteen years ago...

about what happened 52 years ago.

Oh, good reference.

OK...who did the math for you?

1. Are you now satisfied that the sources quoted are legitimate liberal sources?

2. And you now realize that he was a devotee of FDR, and was disappointed in the course liberals have taken since the New Deal?

And do you know that FDR would endorse my OP?

Here, let me prove it:
"Of course we will provide useful work for the needy unemployed; we prefer useful work to the pauperism of a dole."
FDRSpeech at Madison Square Garden (October 31, 1936)
Speech at Madison Square Garden (October 31, 1936)

3. A little logic here: Glad you looked Davis....now, what is the significance of '1996," since the current President is still behaving just as he indicated?


4."It is 2012."
Brilliant! Gold star for you!

Now, a bit of history. Do you realize that 2012 is the centennial for Progressives?
From Woodrow Wilson to Barack Obama....November will be the end of an error.

The default position of America is the belief that the average American is competent to navigate his own life; that parents are capable of raising their own children; that most Americans are fully able to pursue happiness with only an occasional helping hand.

For example, the GI Bill was underpinned by the well-founded assumption that given a chance at a college education, the Greatest Generation would be able to ake advantage of the opportunity…and it was!

I look forward to the day when those who believe the opposite are out of power in this nation.

How about you?

 

[itfitzme]

From a review of "A Nation of Moochers."

Book Review: A Nation of Moochers - WSJ.com

"From banks to GM to underwater mortgage holders, a surprising number of us have our eyes on the public purse."

Just to be clear, that we are talking about Mr. Sykes view, "according to Mr. Sykes, "perfectly captures the new culture of bailouts and irresponsible grasping."

or "Mr. Sykes rightly reminds readers of the many not-so-destitute folks who benefit from government largess or loophole-favors: GE paying minimal taxes despite a global profit measuring in the billions; Archer Daniels Midland making sure we keep subsidizing ethanol; Goldman Sachs using its clout to avoid taking a haircut on its AIG positions. And let's not forget the coastal vacation properties in Hilton Head Island or Florida covered by the National Flood Insurance Program—"the taxpayer's gift to improvident beach dwellers," as Mr. Sykes puts it. Heaven forbid that someone wealthy enough to afford a beach house should pay market rates to insure it."

Yep, there is a great reference to support the premise "What Liberals Believe"..

 

[koshergrl]

You're an idiot.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well, what a load of crap.

I see material in quotes that is someone saying what they claim someone else believes.

Oh, I love this quote, "He said 'Is this or is this not a clear case of blaming the victim?'"

What? That is evidence of what this imaginary group of "liberals" believes?

Or this one, "Imagine the Ryan response..." Yes, let's all imagine.

Good god, you couldn't even make up your own bs, you had to quote some one elses bs. Like that makes it more credible.

You are an idiot, unable to tell the difference between reality and your fantasies.

You remind me of Ann Coulter. She sticks in references, that don't support her claims, often being entirely contrary to them.

Oh, that's right, Ann Coulter is your hero. Figures.

You poor thing, living under the constant duress of trying to keep up with intellectual superiors, and trying to deal with a world you aren't capable of understanding....


1. Were you actually literate, and able to engage in the kind of study in which educated folks engage, the names mentioned would carry some weight with you.
But such is the state of education of folks like you....

2. Suspecting that many of the liberal persuasion would be in your situation, I provided a clue as to the accuracy of the OP....
...of course, being as perceptive as you are, you missed it.

So, a bit of spoon feeding, it seems, is necessary: reality is defined by actions, rather than by words. Notice that the Obama administration has purposely loosened the requirements for various welfare programs in order to carry out the Cloward and Piven plan, i.e., to enroll more and more in welfare programs.

3. So...let's review.
Whether or not you are familiar with any of the Liberal intellectual elite noted in the OP....you are probably familiar with Barack Obama.
True?

The OP shows that he behaves in accordance with with the Liberal doctrine, aimed at reducing Americans' sense of responsibility.


Was that still over your head?

If so, it serves as proof that you attended a government school.

None of which changes the fact that your diatribe is all based on "imagine the response..." Yes, let's all imagine that the "Liberal intellectual elite" said....

1. Now, now...no fibbing.

You know very well that the OP is neither a diatribe (bitter verbal attack....'polemic' would have been closer) nor is it untrue.

2. "all based on "imagine the respons..."
Really?
Go to the sources and note that I have relayed just what folks said, either as a paraphrase or a direct quote.

3. I notice that you seem calmer: bet it's because you realize how deleterious those liberal doctrines are.

4. And, as the OP states:

So, my "Liberal" colleagues....these are the ideas and the folks to which you are wedded.
Bet lots of you say 'I don't agree with all of that..."

You might want to rethink the marriage...

 

[PoliticalChic]

From a review of "A Nation of Moochers."

Book Review: A Nation of Moochers - WSJ.com

"From banks to GM to underwater mortgage holders, a surprising number of us have our eyes on the public purse."

Just to be clear, that we are talking about Mr. Sykes view, "according to Mr. Sykes, "perfectly captures the new culture of bailouts and irresponsible grasping."

or "Mr. Sykes rightly reminds readers of the many not-so-destitute folks who benefit from government largess or loophole-favors: GE paying minimal taxes despite a global profit measuring in the billions; Archer Daniels Midland making sure we keep subsidizing ethanol; Goldman Sachs using its clout to avoid taking a haircut on its AIG positions. And let's not forget the coastal vacation properties in Hilton Head Island or Florida covered by the National Flood Insurance Program—"the taxpayer's gift to improvident beach dwellers," as Mr. Sykes puts it. Heaven forbid that someone wealthy enough to afford a beach house should pay market rates to insure it."

Yep, there is a great reference to support the premise "What Liberals Believe"..

Not clear...are you saying that Sykes also says that liberals pay off rich folks?

Yes he does.

So?

How does that change the facts of the OP?

 

[itfitzme]

From a review of "A Nation of Moochers."

Book Review: A Nation of Moochers - WSJ.com

"From banks to GM to underwater mortgage holders, a surprising number of us have our eyes on the public purse."

Just to be clear, that we are talking about Mr. Sykes view, moochers " according to Mr. Sykes, 'perfectly captures the new culture of bailouts and irresponsible grasping.'"

or "Mr. Sykes rightly reminds readers of the many not-so-destitute folks who benefit from government largess or loophole-favors: GE paying minimal taxes despite a global profit measuring in the billions; Archer Daniels Midland making sure we keep subsidizing ethanol; Goldman Sachs using its clout to avoid taking a haircut on its AIG positions. And let's not forget the coastal vacation properties in Hilton Head Island or Florida covered by the National Flood Insurance Program—"the taxpayer's gift to improvident beach dwellers," as Mr. Sykes puts it. Heaven forbid that someone wealthy enough to afford a beach house should pay market rates to insure it."

Yep, there is a great reference to support the premise "What Liberals Believe"..

The owness to make your case is upon you.

You make a host of quotes of someone else claiming what someone else believes.

Your two main sources are a sixteen year old book about the 1906's, and a recent book that talks about everything from medicare and disability to bailouts of GM and AIG.

All this to support the premise that a recent article about current food stamp levels are part of this liberal thinking consipracy.

So let's see how this plays out. Let's assume that the quotes of someone else saying what someone else believes are accurate.

The progression of "liberal" thinking in the 1960's leads to this current culture of corporate bailouts which leads to the increase in food stamps during the largest recession in history with record long term unemployment.

Oh, I get it. Yep, that's a pretty strong case for "what liberals believe..."

 

[itfitzme]

Yep, there is a great reference to support the premise "What Liberals Believe"..

Not clear...are you saying that Sykes also says that liberals pay off rich folks?

Yes he does.

So?

How does that change the facts of the OP?

I'm not saying anything about "What Liberals Believe..." or do. That is your premise.

I'm just following your reasoning, reading the quotes of what someone else claims that someone else said, and looking up your references, to see what they are about.

It's your premise.

And it seems that Sykes is talking about just about every program, including bailouts.

From the book review, "Mr. Sykes writes that 'nearly half of means-tested welfare payments go to low-income elderly in nursing homes or to the disabled. These payments are not controversial and do not fall under the rubric of 'mooching.' "

So, it seems that Mr. Sykes does support at least half of these programs, though not all.

What I don't see the review quoting Mr. Sykes as using the word "liberal". So, as a reference for what Mr. Sykes says that liberal believe, it seems a bit weak.

How does that change the facts of the OP?

What supporting facts?

Your "facts" are meaningless.

You might as well have quoted an article from NASA about the current state of the moon rover.

 

[AVG-JOE]

But you don't know PC at all. She doesn't cite things that don't support her argument. She knows 100 percent how to stage an argument, and win it.

That's 'cause all she posted was her opinion. How the fuck can you lose an argument defending nothing more than your own opinion?

In my opinion, those who deride liberalism in these "town crier announcing a disease" sort of threads don't understand the history that gave birth to 'America'.

Labeling like this is one of those things that makes us, as a species, look stupid from space. Another is campaign spending, but I digress...

History. Learn some fucking history.

Here's a link to a quote from a real history book... Fascinating stuff!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...th-conservatism-america-was-born-liberal.html​

 

[itfitzme]

You poor thing, living under the constant duress of trying to keep up with intellectual superiors, and trying to deal with a world you aren't capable of understanding....


1. Were you actually literate, and able to engage in the kind of study in which educated folks engage, the names mentioned would carry some weight with you.
But such is the state of education of folks like you....

2. Suspecting that many of the liberal persuasion would be in your situation, I provided a clue as to the accuracy of the OP....
...of course, being as perceptive as you are, you missed it.

So, a bit of spoon feeding, it seems, is necessary: reality is defined by actions, rather than by words. Notice that the Obama administration has purposely loosened the requirements for various welfare programs in order to carry out the Cloward and Piven plan, i.e., to enroll more and more in welfare programs.

3. So...let's review.
Whether or not you are familiar with any of the Liberal intellectual elite noted in the OP....you are probably familiar with Barack Obama.
True?

The OP shows that he behaves in accordance with with the Liberal doctrine, aimed at reducing Americans' sense of responsibility.


Was that still over your head?

If so, it serves as proof that you attended a government school.

None of which changes the fact that your diatribe is all based on "imagine the response..." Yes, let's all imagine that the "Liberal intellectual elite" said....

1. Now, now...no fibbing.

You know very well that the OP is neither a diatribe (bitter verbal attack....'polemic' would have been closer) nor is it untrue.

2. "all based on "imagine the response.."
Really?
Go to the sources and note that I have relayed just what folks said, either as a paraphrase or a direct quote.

3. I notice that you seem calmer: bet it's because you realize how deleterious those liberal doctrines are.

4. And, as the OP states:

So, my "Liberal" colleagues....these are the ideas and the folks to which you are wedded.
Bet lots of you say 'I don't agree with all of that..."

You might want to rethink the marriage...

What does the physiological state of my body, as you infer it from the words that I use, have to do with "What Liberal Believe..."? What is your point, really? That if your calm, ergo your reasoning is sound?

Are you completely unable to distinguish between your objects and your perception of how other people feel? Are you really this insane?

"intellectual superiors", "educated folks"? Oh, yeah, I forgot, your education attainment is what? What was that college degree in? Private school in K-12?

" reality is defined by actions, rather than by words." and you infer from two meaningless references and one recent article on food stamp that "Liberals Believe...." what?

"The OP shows that ...." The OP is "What Liberals Believe.." you haven't even shown what liberals believe.

"Go to the sources and note that I have relayed just what folks said"

Yeah, you relayed what someone else claims someone else believes, at best. Though I am beginning to suspect the accuracy of what your have relayed about what your sources said.

Even then, it's all a nebulous connection at best.

Because, of course, the bank bailouts initiated under the Bush admin are like food stamp programs for the poor.

As such, it is clear "What Liberals Believe...."

 

[koshergrl]

You're an idiot. Really. You're what is known as a "pseudo intellectual" except I'm not even sure you reach that level...

 

[AVG-JOE]

If that was directed at me,

 

[starcraftzzz]

You're an idiot.

Why is it that all you can say is “you are an diot”
Perhaps the person who is the idiot is the person who only has the mental ability to insult others while totally added nothing tot eh discussion and never saying anything intellectual.
I await your response where you call me a retard

 

[koshergrl]

Because there's no point in engaging. You don't make sense, you appear to not understand English...let alone intellectual discussion.

Yet here you are, stuttering moronically. You started out by saying that it's dumb to use outside sources to support a point of view, then you pretended that her sources proved the OPPOSITE of what she said, and now you are rambling on about ... I dunno, the copyright date on one of the sources, as if that makes it untenable...without providing anything of substance, yourself.

PC is just using you as target practice, and you aren't even sharp enough to realize it.

 

[rdean]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U]Craig T. Nelson on Government Aid - YouTube[/ame]

Conservatives never get help from government. Too independent and hard working. They never take food stamps and welfare. Oh, wait. Nevermind.

 

[koshergrl]

I like macaroni!

 

[starcraftzzz]

Because there's no point in engaging. You don't make sense, you appear to not understand English...let alone intellectual discussion.

I see the reason you never say anything intelligent is because you a re too stupid to understand logic

Yet here you are, stuttering moronically.

Yes you never saying anything intelligent means others stutter moronically. Project much?

You started out by saying that it's dumb to use outside sources to support a point of view,

Yes pointing out that using outside sourcse that contain no facts but simply the recantation of what you are saying is stupid is dumb how?
I imagine instead of answering the question you will call be stupid because all you can do is insult people you can’t think or anything else

then you pretended that her sources proved the OPPOSITE of what she said, and now you are rambling on about ... I dunno, the copyright date on one of the sources, as if that makes it untenable...without providing anything of substance, yourself.

Since I have never even uttered the word corpyright on this thread its clear that you are either illiterate or have no clue what you are talking about

PC is just using you as target practice, and you aren't even sharp enough to realize it.

So PC is using me as a target by saying retarded things…
I await your response that again will contain 0 intellectual thoughts.

 

[koshergrl]

No, I know what I'm talking about.

And you still haven't offered anything of substance.

 

[starcraftzzz]

No, I know what I'm talking about.

And you still haven't offered anything of substance.

Yep stating that thinking using a source that has no facts is stupid is not substance but you calling people retards and acting like a child is substance.
Odd how I post no substance but every time I school you and you end up reverting to acting like you are a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum

 

[koshergrl]

If it were true, I suppose.