What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1

[candycorn]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

This, of course, is total bulshit.

Government is the only defense a citizen has against powerful corporations which have been shown again and again to steal, cheat, and lie to the point of polluting the planet and destroying the world economy. Why? Because the government is ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

And the conservatives want to let the unelected corporations run wild....

"Corporations are people, my friend...." Willard Romney.

Shocking that this is the guy they've nominated.

 

[Listening]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

This, of course, is total bulshit.

Government is the only defense a citizen has against powerful corporations which have been shown again and again to steal, cheat, and lie to the point of polluting the planet and destroying the world economy. Why? Because the government is ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

And the conservatives want to let the unelected corporations run wild....

It would be great if we could get the sheeple to quit spouting talking points.

But that is because your government gave you NCLB and is systematically dumbing down this country.

Government isn't the solution...it's the problem.

 

[Listening]

"Corporations are people, my friend...." Willard Romney.

Shocking that this is the guy they've nominated.

He hasn't won yet....

 

[newpolitics]

conservatism is what happens when you lose all ability to look at things honestly, including oneself... that is how I feel about what I see coming from the conservatives today. Look at Newt, he is a walking conundrum: left two terminally ill women, is one of the biggers Washington insiders, yet talks like his shit smells like roses. It's insanity. None of them are any better, except good 'ol Ron!

 

[BluePhantom]

"Corporations are people, my friend...." Willard Romney.

Shocking that this is the guy they've nominated.

Do you have a 401k? Do you have any stock? A bond? If so, guess what.....you are invested in a corporation douchebag

 

[Bern80]

conservatism is what happens when you lose all ability to look at things honestly, including oneself... that is how I feel about what I see coming from the conservatives today. Look at Newt, he is a walking conundrum: left two terminally ill women, is one of the biggers Washington insiders, yet talks like his shit smells like roses. It's insanity. None of them are any better, except good 'ol Ron!

I think then you need to consider whether the problem is really with conservatism, the ideology, or people who would simply like to call themselves conservative.

 

[Cuyo]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

You're describing the liberal version of the false dilemma. Conservatives do it, too. ('Communism has never worked!' 'Why don't you move to Belgium if you want public health care?')

I don't engage in what you're describing, at least I don't think. But it's hardly a distinctly liberal phenomenon.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

This, of course, is total bulshit.

Government is the only defense a citizen has against powerful corporations which have been shown again and again to steal, cheat, and lie to the point of polluting the planet and destroying the world economy. Why? Because the government is ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

And the conservatives want to let the unelected corporations run wild....

Gets pretty scary sometimes when you get the full view of the liberal brain.

Government is the only defense a citizen has against powerful corporations?

No, a citizen can simply take his business somewhere else and the corporation loses power as it loses money. Don't like how Mcdonald's gets their meat? Go to Wendy's. Don't like how Wal Mart treats their employees? Go to Meijer.

No, we don't have to be saved by the almighty, all-knowing, all-loving Father Government.

 

[Lovebears65]

What I hate is when your debating a liberal they go straight to the personal attacks when they are losing the debate.

 

[Cuyo]

What I hate is when your debating a liberal they go straight to the personal attacks when they are losing the debate.

That's not the 'liberal' thing. That's just the fact that you're an idiot.

 

[Lovebears65]

What I hate is when your debating a liberal they go straight to the personal attacks when they are losing the debate.

That's not the 'liberal' thing. That's just the fact that you're an idiot.

You prove my point right here. I hope you have better things to do with your life then attack me on a message board.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This, of course, is total bulshit.

Government is the only defense a citizen has against powerful corporations which have been shown again and again to steal, cheat, and lie to the point of polluting the planet and destroying the world economy. Why? Because the government is ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

And the conservatives want to let the unelected corporations run wild....

I thought Pol Pot had died.


Yet, here you are...

 

[Foxfyre]

conservatism is what happens when you lose all ability to look at things honestly, including oneself... that is how I feel about what I see coming from the conservatives today. Look at Newt, he is a walking conundrum: left two terminally ill women, is one of the biggers Washington insiders, yet talks like his shit smells like roses. It's insanity. None of them are any better, except good 'ol Ron!

True conservatism however doesn't deal in red herrings, distortions, exaggerations, and hate mongering as you are doing here. As a modern American Conservative, Tea Party style, I have no problem pointing out the bad votes and destructive policiies based on what they say and actually do, and I have no problem with a virtual hanging of somebody I think has been or will be bad for America. But intellectual honesty requires me to hang them for "crimes" they actual commit and not those dishonestly manufactured and promotedf on message boards and in the media.

Conservatives can be just a guilty of buying into the dishonest stuff they read too. But I haven't seen many Conservatives repeat the offense once it is pointed oiut. I can't say that a lot of liberals care whether they get it right or not when they are attacking somebody. So they just keep repeating it over and over because they think it is effective. To me that is wrong.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You prove my point right here. I hope you have better things to do with your life then attack me on a message board.

Cuyo is a moron, which is why he's a leftist. But he's right that personal attacks are "non-denominational" so to speak. Pretty much everyone here engages in them. It's half the fun.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Corporations are people, my friend...." Willard Romney.

Shocking that this is the guy they've nominated.

Do you have a 401k? Do you have any stock? A bond? If so, guess what.....you are invested in a corporation douchebag

I own stock. I own a lawnmower too. I don't think that makes my lawnmower a person jeezus what is wrong with you people?

 

[bripat9643]

conservatism is what happens when you lose all ability to look at things honestly, including oneself... that is how I feel about what I see coming from the conservatives today. Look at Newt, he is a walking conundrum: left two terminally ill women, is one of the biggers Washington insiders, yet talks like his shit smells like roses. It's insanity. None of them are any better, except good 'ol Ron!

Two "terminally ill" women who are still alive?

The rest of your post is equally idiotic.

 

[Foxfyre]

conservatism is what happens when you lose all ability to look at things honestly, including oneself... that is how I feel about what I see coming from the conservatives today. Look at Newt, he is a walking conundrum: left two terminally ill women, is one of the biggers Washington insiders, yet talks like his shit smells like roses. It's insanity. None of them are any better, except good 'ol Ron!

Two "terminally ill" women who are still alive?

The rest of your post is equally idiotic.

That's what I mean by the liberal brainwashed who buy into the hateful hype they read on message boards and then repeat it as truth. If I am going to say something accusatory or complimentary about a public figure, I do try to be accurate. And there are a LOT of well visited sites on the internet that I might visit for clues and tips on where to look for stuff, but that I don't trust the information posted there for a minute. And most of those I don't trust are leftwing sites just for the reasons that they promote the kind of ignorance that NP posted re Newt.

And it is frustrating to rarely be able to really get down and discuss the components of the various issues, because so many on the left so often debate via sound bite and distorted facts and/or red herring, straw man, ad hominem, personal attack, etc. and cannot or will not really consider or discuss the actual issues.

I will say that it is frustrating for me when EITHER side turns a thread into a food fight and you see post after post of members hurling insults at each other and the topic is no longer discussed. I know that is fun for a lot of you though so whatever floats your boat.

 

[bripat9643]

That's what I mean by the liberal brainwashed who buy into the hateful hype they read on message boards and then repeat it as truth. If I am going to say something accusatory or complimentary about a public figure, I do try to be accurate. And there are a LOT of well visited sites on the internet that I might visit for clues and tips on where to look for stuff, but that I don't trust the information posted there for a minute. And most of those I don't trust are leftwing sites just for the reasons that they promote the kind of ignorance that NP posted re Newt.

And it is frustrating to rarely be able to really get down and discuss the components of the various issues, because so many on the left so often debate in that manner and cannot or will notreally consider or discuss the actual issues.

Leftists lie, commit logical fallacies, obfuscate and spout stupidities. They almost never get the facts right or debate honestly. They can't because they don't know what they're talking about 95% of the time. They also are not capable of discerning violations of logic.

 

[Foxfyre]

That's what I mean by the liberal brainwashed who buy into the hateful hype they read on message boards and then repeat it as truth. If I am going to say something accusatory or complimentary about a public figure, I do try to be accurate. And there are a LOT of well visited sites on the internet that I might visit for clues and tips on where to look for stuff, but that I don't trust the information posted there for a minute. And most of those I don't trust are leftwing sites just for the reasons that they promote the kind of ignorance that NP posted re Newt.

And it is frustrating to rarely be able to really get down and discuss the components of the various issues, because so many on the left so often debate in that manner and cannot or will notreally consider or discuss the actual issues.

Leftists lie, commit logical fallacies, obfuscate and spout stupidities. They almost never get the facts right or debate honestly. They can't because they don't know what they're talking about 95% of the time. They also are not capable of discerning violations of logic.

And here I'll have to take YOU to task for a blanket condemantion of liberals in general. What you say is simply not true of all liberals. There are a number of liberals that I read regularly--Camille Paglia, Michael Kinsley, Bob Beckel et al--even Maureen Dowd has her moments, and William Raspberry was one of my most favorite liberals ever to write and I learned a lot from him. Do I agree with their perspevctives on all subjects? No I do not, but then I don't always agree with Conservatives I read either. But they have a real perspective, can articulate it, can defend it, and they make me think.

There are a few liberals here on USMB that I have a great deal of respect for and who can and do argue a case without being hateful or dishonest. EZ, Care, George Constanza come to mind immediately and there are a few others. I won't try to list them all lest I leave out somebody important, but they are here.

Those who just sling mud from either side don't make anybody think. Maybe its a way to vent, I don't know.

But it remains frustrating to me that so many liberals cannot or will not defend their point of view on any issue but rather create straw men, throw iin red herrings, or attack the person holding the opposing point of view,. Such makes interesting or useful debate almost impossible. (And yes, it makes the few Conservatives who do that just as frustrating.)

 

[Cuyo]

What I hate is when your debating a liberal they go straight to the personal attacks when they are losing the debate.

That's not the 'liberal' thing. That's just the fact that you're an idiot.

You prove my point right here. I hope you have better things to do with your life then attack me on a message board.

No, as I stated, that's really not it. Do try to keep up.

Do I call people morons just because they're Republican? Nooooo... I call morons morons.