What Offense Did the Ukrainian People Commit That Caused Them to Be Bombed into Oblivion by The Russian Military at the Command of Putin?

[AntonToo]

Russia is not benevolent. Ukraine was a highly corrupt country with Russian influence keeping it that way.

The Yanukovich was elected but was also highly corrupt and voted out of office by the parliament.

Yanukovich was not voted out of office by the parlament, he remained an absent president (hiding out in Russia) until a new president was elected.

 

[AntonToo]

Russia was responsible for the corruption in Ukraine? Wow, that's rich. Is Ukraine now a paragon of democracy and good governance? You're so out of touch with reality.

Russia is responsible for using every lever of influence it had, which eventually became full on millitary invasion, to subvert establishment of open, transparent, politically competetive democratic governing in Ukraine.

Yes Ukraine had much work to do after spending 70 years in USSR gulag, but there is no doubt Kremlin has been doing everything it could under Putin to hold them back because thats the only way he could ever keep some control.

 

[Marener]

Russia was responsible for the corruption in Ukraine? Wow, that's rich. Is Ukraine now a paragon of democracy and good governance? You're so out of touch with reality.

The claim that Ukraine's parliament legitimately voted Viktor Yanukovych out of power in 2014 doesn't hold up when you dig into the details. Here's why this claim falls apart:

1. Constitutional Violations: According to the Ukrainian Constitution, a sitting president can only be removed through impeachment, which requires a clear, legal process involving the Constitutional Court and a full parliamentary investigation. None of this happened in Yanukovych’s case. The impeachment procedures were bypassed, which makes the vote to remove him constitutionally questionable at best, and outright illegal at worst.
2. Parliamentary Voting Irregularities: The vote to oust Yanukovych required a supermajority of 338 votes in the 450-member Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian parliament). However, only 328 members were present for the vote, meaning the decision didn't meet the constitutional threshold. In any legitimate democracy, the lack of the required majority would nullify such a critical decision, but in Ukraine, it was pushed through without following legal protocol. This shows that the parliamentary vote was more of a political maneuver rather than a lawful removal.
3. Absence of the President: Yanukovych was still the sitting president when this vote took place, but he had fled the capital amid rising violence and threats to his life. He didn’t resign, and there were no formal impeachment proceedings against him. His absence was due to safety concerns, not an admission of guilt or failure to fulfill his duties. Essentially, the parliament took advantage of his absence to illegally remove him from power, all while he was still the recognized president by constitutional law.
4. Western Influence: The reality is that Western countries, particularly the U.S. and the EU, were heavily involved in the events leading up to Yanukovych’s ousting. Senior American officials, such as Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, were caught on tape discussing who should lead Ukraine after Yanukovych was removed, clearly showing that the West was orchestrating a regime change behind the scenes. This is hardly the hallmark of a democratic process.

In sum, the claim that Yanukovych was "voted out" by the parliament as a result of a legitimate process is pure fiction.

Considering Ukraine was controlled by Russia for decades leading up to the Maiden protests, who else would be responsible for their corruption?

Russia itself is a heavily corrupt county and pretending they’re at all committed to democracy is absurd.

 

[AntonToo]

Just answer the simple question. What exactly are you referring to when you say Russia or its leader is repressive? In what way is it repressive?

I've just listed it to you. What don't you get?

Russia is repressive state with no independent courts, no free media, no freedom of protest, no freedom to organize competetive political opposition.

Putin is a defacto Czar who has consolidated all power under his own ass by subversion of media, 24/7 propaganda, intimidation, jailing and killing his opposition. There are no true choices in Russia's so called "elections" and in fact Russian people have NEVER ONCE IN THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY voted in a change in power.

 

[AntonToo]

The mostly Russian people in Donbas voted OVERWHELMINGLY to rejoin Russia

Dupe, did Putin tell you that? Because international law makes very clear that holding lawless refferendums at a barel of a gun is illegal.

Hitler also conducted so called "referendums" in Austria, where 99% of people supposedly supported becoming Germany. Organizers of those fake refferendums were tried in Nuremberg trials after the war.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dupe, did Putin tell you that? Because international law makes very clear that holding lawless refferendums at a barel of a gun is illegal.

Hitler also conducted so called "referendums" in Austria, where 99% of people supposedly supported it becoming Germany. Organizers of those fake refferendums were tried in Nuremberg trials after the war.

^ Supports the Ukrainian "democracy" which canceled elections, canceled religion, jails and killed reporters and eliminated the political opposition

 

[AntonToo]

^ Supports the Ukrainian "democracy" which canceled elections, canceled religion, jails and killed reporters and eliminated the political opposition

You keep confusing cause and effect, up from down.


Before full scale invasion Ukrainian people regularly voted in new presidents and true change in power.

Before full scale invasion Ukraine had an actual party called "Putin's Party", it wasn't popular but no one stopped it from operating.

Before full scale Russian invasion Russian Orthodox church, which reports to ex-KGB agent who names himself Kirill was allowed to operate in Ukraine. Russian Orthodox church is little beyond Kremlin's propaganda arm and fully supports invasion of Ukraine

AFTER the full scale war began elections were suspended as per existing war time law and OF COURSE blatant enemy subversion operations became illegal.

 

[theHawk]

The Yanukovich was elected but was also highly corrupt and voted out of office by the parliament

They left before Yanukovich was voted out

Nice revisionist history. He wasn’t “voted out”, he was removed from office by force, by an insurrection.

Parliament tried to then impeach him after the fact, and that failed since they didn’t have the votes. So then they had a sham trial where they charged him with lesser crimes, but he had already been removed from office by the coup. So no, he wasn’t “voted out”. That is a total lie.

 

[TruthNotBS]

No we don't. After WW2 civilized world said - NEVER AGAIN and signed international treaties that reject annexations to ensure lasting peace. America has been upholding those norms.

Russia broke those agreements and conventions, along with border and nuclear non-proliferation agreements with Ukraine when it wrote in recognized Ukranian territories into it's constitution.




That is just fucking idiotic. America is a dominant and influencial player in global economy because people want to live, govern, entertain and use technologies like Americans do. The reason Russia can't do the same is because they don't produce much of anything people actually want beyond what they can pull out of the ground.

The U.S. doesn’t need to wave flags anymore; it runs its empire through economic dominance and military muscle. With control over the world’s reserve currency and the global banking system, the U.S. has all the tools to economically strangle any country that doesn’t play along. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, the DPRK, and Nicaragua—all victims of U.S. economic warfare.

​

These aren't just "sanctions", they're WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, designed to starve nations into submission and force regime changes. The American hegemon and bully empire has 700+ military bases sprinkled across the globe. Think Germany or Japan really have a say in hosting U.S. troops on their soil? Don't be so naive.

As far as NATO, It’s nothing more than an American tool, designed to encircle Russia and extend U.S. control over Europe. The so-called defensive alliance didn’t stop expanding eastward even after the Cold War ended. And now Ukraine is just another pawn in the game, pushed deeper into the NATO orbit while Zelensky acts as a mouthpiece puppet and asset for Western powers. Let’s stop pretending this is about protecting democracy, this is about U.S. hegemony, plain and simple. The US isn't a democracy, we're a plutocracy, a plutocratic oligarchy run by multibillion-dollar corporations.

Now, let’s get into the U.S.’s greatest hits: Pinochet in Chile, the Contras in Nicaragua, Mobutu in Congo, Suharto in Indonesia, the Shah of Iran, Saddam Hussein (yes, the U.S. backed him in the ‘80s), death squads in El Salvador, military dictatorships in Brazil and Honduras, and Diem in South Vietnam. The list goes on and on. The U.S. has been behind coups, wars, and chaos in Guatemala, Argentina, Libya, Syria, and many others, all to secure resources and protect Wall Street’s interests. But sure, let’s keep pretending it’s all about “freedom.”

 

[AntonToo]

The U.S. doesn’t need to wave flags anymore; it runs its empire through economic dominance and military muscle

Russia DOES NOT. It runs it's empire by millitary invasions and annexations that directly violate international law.

 

[theHawk]

he remained an absent president (hiding out in Russia) until a new president was elected

And why was he “hiding” in Russia? Because otherwise he would had been murdered by the insurrectionists in Ukraine.


Nice to know you believe insurrections are a vital part of democracy.

 

[AntonToo]

And why was he “hiding” in Russia? Because otherwise he would had been murdered by the insurrectionists in Ukraine.

That is bullshit. None of Yanukovich's cabinet, allies and party members were subject to any violance.

His exit out of Ukraine was under escort of Russian special forces and it's not clear if it was done by his own will. His son was belived to have been killed by Russian FSB, though again facts are murky.

If he ramianed in Ukraine Yanukovich would more then likely stand trial for his abuse of office and violent suppression of free speech and protest.

 

[theHawk]

If he ramianed in Ukraine Yanukovich would more then likely stand trial for his abuse of office and violent suppression of free speech and protest.

^^this is laughable considering how Zelensky silenced his opposition.


You guys don’t mind tyranny, just as long as it is your side that is doing the silencing.

 

[AntonToo]

^^this is laughable considering how Zelensky silenced his opposition.

Zelensky didn't get into office untill 2019, 5 years after these events.

How did he get into office? He WAS the opposition and won the election by running on anti-corruption platform.

How many times are you useful idiots going to mess up on even basic timeline?

 

[TruthNotBS]

I've just listed it to you. What don't you get?

Russia is repressive state with no independent courts, no free media, no freedom of protest, no freedom to organize competetive political opposition.

Putin is a defacto Czar who has consolidated all power under his own ass by subversion of media, 24/7 propaganda, intimidation, jailing and killing his opposition. There are no true choices in Russia's so called "elections" and in fact Russian people have NEVER ONCE IN THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY voted in a change in power.

Let’s not pretend the U.S empire. has any moral high ground here. You want to rant about Putin and Russia being “repressive,” but the U.S. is perfectly happy to support Saudi Arabia, a country that beheads people for witchcraft. And what about Israhell? The U.S. has no problem giving billions of dollars in military aid to what amounts to a racist apartheid state that engages in genocide against the Palestinian people. But when it comes to Russia, suddenly it’s all about “freedom” and “democracy”? You're full of shit.

The U.S. backs Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE, and countless other authoritarian regimes that brutally repress their own people. Why? Because they serve U.S. interests, plain and simple. So let’s not pretend like the U.S. cares about dictatorships, it cares about who is willing to play by its rules. Period.

And about Putin being a dictator, are we really pretending that’s the issue here? The U.S. has no problem with dictatorships as long as they’re on Washington’s payroll. What makes Putin a “deal-breaker” is that Russia refuses to be a puppet for American economic and military interests. That’s the real problem. Putin isn’t beheading people in the public square for witchcraft or building settlements on occupied land. But as soon as Russia stands up for its own sovereignty and rejects Western military expansionism and bullying, suddenly it’s the villain.

You want to talk about Russia’s elections? Sure, they’re different from the West’s, but so what? Is China a democracy? Is Saudi Arabia a democracy? Are you really going to defend the “democracy” of Israel while it bulldozes Palestinian homes and dehumanizes, and slaughters Palestinians? The double standard is glaring, and we all see it. The U.S. doesn't care about dictators, it cares about control. If you fall in line, you get a pass. If you don’t, you’re the enemy and the American military-industrial complex has another boogieman to capitalize on, scaring the American public into spending more billions on weapons, expanding the nation's defense (warmongering) budget.

 

[theHawk]

Zelensky didn't get into office untill 2019, 5 years after these events.

How many times are you useful idiots going to mess up on even basic timeline?

I didn’t claim otherwise.

I just pointed out you fully support silencing opposition.

 

[AntonToo]

I didn’t claim otherwise.

I just pointed out you fully support silencing opposition.

He WAS THE OPPOSITION dum dum.

Zelensky won the elections against a sitting president who then transfered power to new administration.

2019 Ukrainian presidential election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CowboyTed]

Considering Ukraine was controlled by Russia for decades leading up to the Maiden protests, who else would be responsible for their corruption?

Russia itself is a heavily corrupt county and pretending they’re at all committed to democracy is absurd.

The big problem Ukraine had after the Maiden Revolution was the legislator...

Effectively they have Russian appointed Judges and prosecutors. These were highly corrupt and Russian business oligarchs were up for a bit of asset stripping....

This has been the corner stone of Ukraine corruption...

 

[AntonToo]

Let’s not pretend the U.S empire. has any moral high ground here.

America OF COURSE has high moral ground.

We are dedicated to open democtratic governing, we uphold international law and don't annex other people's lands. Duh

 

[AntonToo]

You want to rant about Putin and Russia being “repressive,” but the U.S. is perfectly happy to support

Russia is in fact a repressive autocracy and U.S. is a on open democracy.

Your continous denials of such simple contrasts makes you look like a useful idiot.