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I'm in agreement with John Locke's treatises on civil government:
"The labour of his body, and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his. Whatsoever then he removes out of the state that nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property. It being by him removed from the common state nature hath placed it in, it hath by this labour something annexed to it, that excludes the common right of other men: for this labour being the unquestionable property of the labourer, no man but he can have a right to what that is once joined to, at least where there is enough, and as good, left in common for others."
Thats the Lockean Proviso, but I see you failed to read further. Do you really need me to explain this or are you going to apologize for taking it out of context?
What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?
For conservatives, it’s easy. They either place their ideology on the principle of self-ownership as written by John Locke or the no harm principle as advocated by J.S. Mill. But what does the modern day liberal trace his/her ideological principles back to? What is the foundation of their thought? It can’t be the classical liberalism of the above stated philosophers (Which calles into qustion the reason they identify as "liberals"). So who/what? Is it “From each according to his ability to each according to his need”? Certainly a modern day liberal/progressive/democrat should be able to shine some light on this question.
What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?
What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?
For conservatives, its easy. They either place their ideology on the principle of self-ownership as written by John Locke or the no harm principle as advocated by J.S. Mill. But what does the modern day liberal trace his/her ideological principles back to? What is the foundation of their thought? It cant be the classical liberalism of the above stated philosophers (Which calles into qustion the reason they identify as "liberals"). So who/what? Is it From each according to his ability to each according to his need? Certainly a modern day liberal/progressive/democrat should be able to shine some light on this question.
I'm in agreement with John Locke's treatises on civil government:
"The labour of his body, and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his. Whatsoever then he removes out of the state that nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property. It being by him removed from the common state nature hath placed it in, it hath by this labour something annexed to it, that excludes the common right of other men: for this labour being the unquestionable property of the labourer, no man but he can have a right to what that is once joined to, at least where there is enough, and as good, left in common for others."
Thats the Lockean Proviso, but I see you failed to read further. Do you really need me to explain this or are you going to apologize for taking it out of context?
It is a general statement of principal
sure, he elaborates in a manner specific to his time, before the development of the self-sovereign corporation, and whatnot. But it is also worth noting that even in those days there were poor laws to occupy the indigent, or in some places even provide outdoor relief.
Needless to say, no apology is called for here.
What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?
If it feels good, do it.
Oh... and by the way... I'm broke because I don't like to work, so I'm going to need you to buy me some groceries and pay my rent for me.
Truth, Justice and the American Way......C Kent
I've been wondering the same thing myself:
Let me quote what REAL LIBERALS thought at the Founding of our Nation (Thomas Paine, Common Sense):
SOME writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.
Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer! Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.
The underlined quote refers to the story of Adam and Eve, not that I care personally, but I thought I'd make it clear for non religious readers.
What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?
For conservatives, its easy. They either place their ideology on the principle of self-ownership as written by John Locke or the no harm principle as advocated by J.S. Mill. But what does the modern day liberal trace his/her ideological principles back to? What is the foundation of their thought? It cant be the classical liberalism of the above stated philosophers (Which calles into qustion the reason they identify as "liberals"). So who/what? Is it From each according to his ability to each according to his need? Certainly a modern day liberal/progressive/democrat should be able to shine some light on this question.
Truth, Justice and the American Way......C Kent
Thats the Lockean Proviso, but I see you failed to read further. Do you really need me to explain this or are you going to apologize for taking it out of context?
It is a general statement of principal
sure, he elaborates in a manner specific to his time, before the development of the self-sovereign corporation, and whatnot. But it is also worth noting that even in those days there were poor laws to occupy the indigent, or in some places even provide outdoor relief.
Needless to say, no apology is called for here.
So you do realize that Locke said that a man may justly own more property than he can make use of in that very same chapter?
What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?
For conservatives, its easy. They either place their ideology on the principle of self-ownership as written by John Locke or the no harm principle as advocated by J.S. Mill. But what does the modern day liberal trace his/her ideological principles back to? What is the foundation of their thought? It cant be the classical liberalism of the above stated philosophers (Which calles into qustion the reason they identify as "liberals"). So who/what? Is it From each according to his ability to each according to his need? Certainly a modern day liberal/progressive/democrat should be able to shine some light on this question.
Truth, Justice and the American Way......C Kent
Define justice.
It is a general statement of principal
sure, he elaborates in a manner specific to his time, before the development of the self-sovereign corporation, and whatnot. But it is also worth noting that even in those days there were poor laws to occupy the indigent, or in some places even provide outdoor relief.
Needless to say, no apology is called for here.
So you do realize that Locke said that a man may justly own more property than he can make use of in that very same chapter?
Sure. I'm a liberal, not a communist.
What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?
For conservatives, its easy. They either place their ideology on the principle of self-ownership as written by John Locke or the no harm principle as advocated by J.S. Mill. But what does the modern day liberal trace his/her ideological principles back to? What is the foundation of their thought? It cant be the classical liberalism of the above stated philosophers (Which calles into qustion the reason they identify as "liberals"). So who/what? Is it From each according to his ability to each according to his need? Certainly a modern day liberal/progressive/democrat should be able to shine some light on this question.
My position is that for someone who believes in the principle of self-ownership, or the no harm principle, it is an ideological contradiction to say at one end that I am the owner of myself, and at the other, a mob has the right to determine where the fruits of myself ownership goes. Indeed, if a mob can take away your property for anything other than to maintain the right of self-ownership, then slavery becomes a viable option. The only question then becomes to what extent is slavery implemented?
Do you follow or is this over your head?
So your clarification is that the government formed by a more perfect union of We the People is a mob? Does this mean that Constitution does not give We the People the right to impose taxes and tariffs? How about the right to regulating commerce, enacting laws and defending the nation? Are those also nothing more than mob rule too?
No one said anything about the Constitution. That is a separate argument that I would be happy to address in another thread, particularly James Madisons federalist no. 41 (Last 4 paragraphs). Yet even the founding fathers recognized that there are some things that shall not be legislated on. My point is simple. No one has the right to impede the right of self-ownership for anything other than the right of self-ownership. You disagree? Good, you just made slavery a viable option. The idea that a group of people has the right to legislate one class of citizens into any service other than to the preservation of self-ownership is indeed, a very modern liberal stance. In many cases, a conservative one as well, but not to such an extent. In any case, your assertion that the mob is right in anything they wish to do because of a preamble of which grants no power to any branch of government as noted by the Supreme Court only shows that this subject is beyond your comprehension. The government has the right to tax but for what purpose? "The General Welfare." Not "Specific Welfare." This utilitarian phrase couldn't be clearer. But nonetheless, you have in no way shape or form addressed the question posed in the op.
Truth, Justice and the American Way......C Kent
Define justice.
Truth, Justice and the American Way......C Kent
Define justice.
I wonder if he'll copy and paste from Plato's Republic?
Truth, Justice and the American Way......C Kent
Define justice.
As C Kent said.........Liberals defend justice for all. regardless of social standing, race, religion or relative super powers
So your clarification is that the government formed by a more perfect union of We the People is a mob? Does this mean that Constitution does not give We the People the right to impose taxes and tariffs? How about the right to regulating commerce, enacting laws and defending the nation? Are those also nothing more than mob rule too?
No one said anything about the Constitution. That is a separate argument that I would be happy to address in another thread, particularly James Madison’s federalist no. 41 (Last 4 paragraphs). Yet even the founding fathers recognized that there are some things that shall not be legislated on. My point is simple. No one has the right to impede the right of self-ownership for anything other than the right of self-ownership. You disagree? Good, you just made slavery a viable option. The idea that a group of people has the right to legislate one class of citizens into any service other than to the preservation of self-ownership is indeed, a very “modern liberal” stance. In many cases, a conservative one as well, but not to such an extent. In any case, your assertion that the mob is right in anything they wish to do because of a preamble of which grants no power to any branch of government as noted by the Supreme Court only shows that this subject is beyond your comprehension. The government has the right to tax but for what purpose? "The General Welfare." Not "Specific Welfare." This utilitarian phrase couldn't be clearer. But nonetheless, you have in no way shape or form addressed the question posed in the op.
The purpose of my questions is to solicit information surrounding your position. So far all that you have provided is little more than a selfish attitude where you are opposed to providing anything that contributes to the general welfare of the society that provides you one of the highest living standards in the history of the world. You are certainly entitled to hold that position but you don't seem to have any rational basis to support it. Instead everything that you posted is self serving. A society where everyone believed as you do would not function and would certainly be incapable of providing you with the standard of living to which you have become accustomed. Your feudal mindset seems based upon some primitive belief that you are an island and that you depend upon no one else for your welfare. Feel free to point out where this impression is wrong and how you are a good upstanding contributing member of this society. How you don't begrudge paying your taxes and support the constitution and the duly elected government of the people. I am looking forward to how you explain the cognitive dissonance between your mindset and your actions.
What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?
If it feels good, do it.
Oh... and by the way... I'm broke because I don't like to work, so I'm going to need you to buy me some groceries and pay my rent for me.
There are many liberals who could pose a proper response to the op, I am sure. However, they do not exist in this forum. In that case, why do we post here at all? I thought they would know where I was coming from by pointing to Locke and J.S. Mill but they have no clue who they were! AMAZING!
Truth, Justice and the American Way......C Kent
Define justice.
As C Kent said.........Liberals defend justice for all. regardless of social standing, race, religion or relative super powers
Define justice.
As C Kent said.........Liberals defend justice for all. regardless of social standing, race, religion or relative super powers
Unless they are rich, white or Christian, but at least the liberals are consistent.
