What should the end goal of our gun policy be?

[Fair&Balanced]

You are apparently trying as hard as you can to ignore what I already wrote on this subject.
Is there any reason I shouldn't ignore what you say, too?
So, you are not interested in discussing the subject?

It's 37 pages

It's two pages ago. And it was posted AFTER you posted several posts of drivel, just a few minutes ago.

So either you saw it and deliberately ignored it, or you didn't even bother checking what people are replying to you.

So, you are not interested in discussing the subject?

and you kinda came at me for something I said to M14,

It's called "joining the debate". You have some objection to that?

If you want to talk only to M14, take it to private messages.

so yes I may have missed your point,

Not "may".

as you may have missed mine.

I read your point, replied to it, and refuted it.

I don't buy into "gun control" I do buy into having to prove you have a right to exercise a particular right.

And if I don't prove to you that I have a right to exercise my rights, you will impose gun control?

Do you have any idea how self-contradictory and silly you sound?

I don't support magazine limits, I don't support any sort of database, I don't support extra taxes on gun sales, or any of othe other bullshit that stupid liberals support

Except for the liberal bullshit you just told me you DO support.

I support providing ID for gun purchases. that is it. The rest is just crap you attribute to me.

And what's more it's the law of the land and yoiu'll just have to deal with it.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

I don't buy into "gun control" I do buy into having to prove you have a right to exercise a particular right

In keeping with interpreting the 2nd with the exact same parameters as we interpret the 1st....
Do you knot understand this is a form of prior restraint and violates the constitution under virtually every circumstance?

To me, proving you are eligible to buy a gun is exactly no different than proving you are eligible to vote.

Non sequitur.
Voter verification protects the rights of those who seek to exercise their right to vote.

Nope. Every argument in favor of Voter ID has been about preventing fraud. It has not been about protecting those who are eligible to vote.

How would keeping those ineligible to vote from voting protect a voter's rights? LOL these people......

 

[M14 Shooter]

I don't buy into "gun control" I do buy into having to prove you have a right to exercise a particular right

In keeping with interpreting the 2nd with the exact same parameters as we interpret the 1st....
Do you knot understand this is a form of prior restraint and violates the constitution under virtually every circumstance?

To me, proving you are eligible to buy a gun is exactly no different than proving you are eligible to vote.

Non sequitur.
Voter verification protects the rights of those who seek to exercise their right to vote.
Background checks do not protect the rights of those who seek to exercise their right to arms.
Thus, the former does not constitutionally justify the latter.

You're an idiot, and I'm moving on.

Don't' blame me for your inability to understand the subject matter.

 

[M14 Shooter]

How would keeping those ineligible to vote from voting protect a voter's rights? LOL these people......

You have to have this explained to you?

 

[g5000]

Voter ID and background checks have the exact identical intent. To prevent the wrong people from voting or buying a gun.

 

[M14 Shooter]

[
I support providing ID for gun purchases. that is it.

That, in and of itself, is fine.
Tying that to proving you are eligible to exercise the right to arms before being allowed to do so is prior restraint.
Why do you not understand this?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Voter ID and background checks have the exact identical intent. To prevent the wrong people from voting or buying a gun.

That seems so obvious , doesn't it?

 

[g5000]

[
I support providing ID for gun purchases. that is it.

That, in and of itself, is fine.
Tying that to proving you are eligible to exercise the right to arms before being allowed to do so is prior restraint.
Why do you not understand this?

You are a fool.

If that is "prior restraint", then so is registering to vote. Because you have to prove you are eligible to vote when you register.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

[
I support providing ID for gun purchases. that is it.

That, in and of itself, is fine.
Tying that to proving you are eligible to exercise the right to arms before being allowed to do so is prior restraint.
Why do you not understand this?

You are a fool.

If that is "prior restraint", then so is registering to vote. Because you have to prove you are eligible to vote when you register.

LOL cracks me up " You MUST prove you have the right to exercise that right, but don't ask me to prove I have a right to exercise my right"


Stupid partisan hacks

 

[g5000]

Registering to vote or performing a background check have fuck-all to do with the legal principle of prior restraint. M14 is talking out of his ass.

Registering someone to vote, or doing a background check, does not restrain someone who is eligible to vote or buy a gun from voting or buying a gun.

 

[Little-Acorn]

You are apparently trying as hard as you can to ignore what I already wrote on this subject.
Is there any reason I shouldn't ignore what you say, too?
So, you are not interested in discussing the subject?

It's 37 pages

It's two pages ago. And it was posted AFTER you posted several posts of drivel, just a few minutes ago.

So either you saw it and deliberately ignored it, or you didn't even bother checking what people are replying to you.

So, you are not interested in discussing the subject?

and you kinda came at me for something I said to M14,

It's called "joining the debate". You have some objection to that?

If you want to talk only to M14, take it to private messages.

so yes I may have missed your point,

Not "may".

as you may have missed mine.

I read your point, replied to it, and refuted it.

I don't buy into "gun control" I do buy into having to prove you have a right to exercise a particular right.

And if I don't prove to you that I have a right to exercise my rights, you will impose gun control?

Are you aware how self-contradictory and silly you sound?

I don't support magazine limits, I don't support any sort of database, I don't support extra taxes on gun sales, or any of othe other bullshit that stupid liberals support

Except for the liberal bullshit you just told me you DO support.

 

[M14 Shooter]

LOL cracks me up " You MUST prove you have the right to exercise that right, but don't ask me to prove I have a right to exercise my right"
Stupid partisan hacks

Says he who so very quickly backed away from hos agreement that the 2nd should be interpreted within the exact same parameters as the 1st once he realized he had no idea what any of that meant.

 

[kaz]

I have proposed a solution here a few times. Instead of registering guns and limiting magazine sizes and whatnot, we should register gun buyers.

If you apply to be a gun buyer, and pass a mental health and criminal background check, your name goes on a list. Sort of like those people who can now get pre-screened before flying.

If you wish to purchase a firearm, the retailer simply looks to see if your name is on the approved gun buyer list. If it is, you can buy as many guns and any size magazines you wish, and no record is kept of what you bought.

If you are a certified nutjob, your name does not get on the list and you cannot buy a gun.

If you are on the list, and then get convicted of whatever crime the people of your state decide warrants your removal from the list, then you are taken off the list.

If you are on the registered gun buyer list, it does not necessarily mean you have bought a gun. Nor does it indicate how many guns you own. Nor does it indicate how much ammo or magazines you own. It just indicates you are an upstanding citizen whose Second Amendment rights shall not be infringed or taken away without due process.

Isn't that a variation of "regulated?"

Yes it is, but it is time for 2nd Amendment proponents to recognize a reality here. Something has to give. We can't just have a strict reading of the 2nd and that's it. I mean if you wanted to just get right to it, in actuality the government shouldn't even be able to preclude the mentally ill from owning guns. I mean the 2n does say "NO REGULATION" , but no one that I''m aware of would support that stance.

In this digital era, it is ridiculous that we can't simply show an ID and boom know instantly that someone is okay to sell guns to.

The standard isn't "mentally ill," The standard is 'due process of law.' The mentally ill can have their rights restricted with the due process of law

And how exactly do you determine such without checking ID? Take their word for it??

I addressed the mentally ill part, not the ID part. I never said you can't check ID. I'm in favor of that. How else would you know they are 18 either?

 

[g5000]

I don't like the government knowing what guns I own. I can buy any number of consumer products without having to inform the government of my purchases.

That's why I prefer people be registered as an eligible gun buyer the exact same way we register as an eligible voter.

I prove I am eligible to vote, and the government might know I voted when I'm checked off on the list when I vote, but the government does not know for whom I voted. This privacy of the ballot box assures we are not coerced into voting for someone.

I prove I am eligible to buy guns, and the government might know I bought something when the gun retailer checks the system to see if I am on the approved list, but the government doesn't know what I bought, or how much I bought.

That is the system I would like to see.

 

[Little-Acorn]

You're an idiot, and I'm moving on.

That sound you just heard, was little F&B scurrying away from the debate at high speed, with his tail clamped firmly between his hind legs, hurling insults over his shoulder as he disappears over the horizon.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You're an idiot, and I'm moving on.

That sound you just heard, was little F&B scurrying away from the debate at high speed, with his tail clamped firmly between his hind legs, shouting insults over his shoulder as he disappears over the horizon.

The inability to stand and deliver a consistent and intelligent argument does that to people.

 

[Contumacious]

The devices allegedly prohibited by 26 USC 5845(f) were used against the Davidians in 1993. Furthermore, if and when Americans conclude that the government has become a tyranny they may required those devices.

Landmines, grenades, lethal gases, RPG's, bombs and other dangerous and explosive devices listed you want to be made available under the colour of Amendment II? Talk about giving a boost to domestic terrorism!

Have you thought that through or do you just not give a shit?

It's not that I haven't thought about it OR that I don't give a shit! The thing is I'm not afraid of my shadow and I don't see black helicopters hovering everywhere. You can live your life in foolish, misplaced distrust of everything in this cruel, cruel world if you wish, but I'll choose freedom and reject your self imposed prison of your fears!

Again , Uncle Sam will be more that happy to use any of those devices against you. Ask the Davidians.


You don't see helicopters hovering everywhere but unfortunately the Davidians did.

Helicopters were spraying the compound from overhead. All that in order to serve a "peaceful" warrant.

It is your prerogative to be naive and gullible.

.

More importantly, it's my choice to live fully and free, unencumbered by paralyzing fears of the boogeyman under my bed! We are both free to choose for ourselves, but your quaking is the price for your choice.

We are not being governed by angels , you snooze , you lose.

.

 

[Rustic]

I don't like the government knowing what guns I own. I can buy any number of consumer products without having to inform the government of my purchases.

That's why I prefer people be registered as an eligible gun buyer the exact same way we register as an eligible voter.

I prove I am eligible to vote, and the government might know I voted when I'm checked off on the list when I vote, but the government does not know for whom I voted. This privacy of the ballot box assures we are not coerced into voting for someone.

I prove I am eligible to buy guns, and the government might know I bought something when the gun retailer checks the system to see if I am on the approved list, but the government doesn't know what I bought, or how much I bought.

That is the system I would like to see.

I would even go a step further, Every firearm should be 100% tax-deductible with no registration required...

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

The devices allegedly prohibited by 26 USC 5845(f) were used against the Davidians in 1993. Furthermore, if and when Americans conclude that the government has become a tyranny they may required those devices.

Landmines, grenades, lethal gases, RPG's, bombs and other dangerous and explosive devices listed you want to be made available under the colour of Amendment II? Talk about giving a boost to domestic terrorism!

Have you thought that through or do you just not give a shit?

It's not that I haven't thought about it OR that I don't give a shit! The thing is I'm not afraid of my shadow and I don't see black helicopters hovering everywhere. You can live your life in foolish, misplaced distrust of everything in this cruel, cruel world if you wish, but I'll choose freedom and reject your self imposed prison of your fears!

Again , Uncle Sam will be more that happy to use any of those devices against you. Ask the Davidians.


You don't see helicopters hovering everywhere but unfortunately the Davidians did.

Helicopters were spraying the compound from overhead. All that in order to serve a "peaceful" warrant.

It is your prerogative to be naive and gullible.

.

More importantly, it's my choice to live fully and free, unencumbered by paralyzing fears of the boogeyman under my bed! We are both free to choose for ourselves, but your quaking is the price for your choice.

We are not being governed by angels , you snooze , you lose.

.

Ever vigil for sure, that was never suggested or implied. Ever in fear is for timid fools and cowards. You're the one who is full of fear of the tyrant looking back at you from every facet of the jewel.

 

[Little-Acorn]

I support providing ID for gun purchases.

And if I don't provide the ID you demand, you want government to infringe my right to keep and bear arms?

that is it.

It is? So now you DON'T want me to have to provide you a reason why I should be able to exercise my right, any more? What you insisted on before, is no longer true?

You need to get your stories straight.

The rest is just crap you attribute to me.

No, it's stuff you've said yourself. I just pointed out your own words to you.

If it's "crap", whose fault is that?

And what's more it's the law of the land and yoiu'll just have to deal with it.

Were you about to point out where in the Constitution it requires us to provide ID to buy a gun?