what so bad about socialism

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Tax supported state welfare benefits are in fact extorted charity enforced by the power of the state.

Contradiction. Extortion is by definition, not charity. Charity involves a choice.

Otherwise, you can just claim every mugger and burglar, is just engaging in direct charity.

Welfare is legalized theft, pure and simple. Nothing more, and nothing less. Charity is not part of the dynamic in any fashion.

If the state says this is your tax bill and if you refuse to pay it, you will be imprisoned. As justification the state says part of the tax will be used donate living expenses to the citizens who do not support themselves the so called safety net is charity no matter what it is called.
Demanding taxes at the threat of imprisonment is extortion. Government has been in the extortion business since its' inception.

Yes, liberals have no regard for freedom, they don't mind holding a gun on you to make you pay because they are sure they are morally superior to you and doing God's work.

I have one question for all of those who complain about “dependency” and government assistance programs: The question is: Do you believe in capitalism?

Before that question can be answered, I think that we must answer this question: What is the purpose, and what is the effect of public assistance in the context of our political and economic system? Let me try to answer it.

It is well established- although there are those who will not admit it-that poverty, unemployment, and underemployment are built into the capitalist system. Even in a regulated economy, the need for labor expands and contracts as the result of a multitude of factors at home and around the world. When the economy shrinks, excess workers are sidelined. At the same time, the workforce expands and contracts, also as the result of factors t that we can’t control. There is also the issue of matching skills to the available jobs geographically and generally. Rarely is there a perfect match between those seeking jobs and the needs of business and there is usually excess labor.

Yet many believe, or pretend to believe that anyone can go out and get job- a job that pays a living wage anytime they wish if only they were not so lazy and content to be on the dole. They call people who are just trying to survive in a cruel economic environment leaches and parasites. They complain that 47% of people pay no federal income tax but fail to acknowledge that the majority are working but too poor to have an income tax liability, in part due to the earned income tax credit and child care credit supported by Republicans. They also fail to acknowledge that these same people pay other federal taxes, as well as state and local taxes which are highly regressive. In addition you fail to grasp the fact that not only does a free market necessitate a welfare state, but the social safety nets of that welfare state are good for capitalism. When the economy shrinks as it always will from time to time, programs are needed to keep those who are displaced from the workforce from becoming too much of a problem while out of work, and staying healthy enough to be ready to work when the system needs them again to make more profits for the capitalists. In their book “Regulating the Poor: The Function of Public Welfare”, Francis Fox Piven and Richard A. Cloward make this argument, and go on to say that relief efforts not only maintain social order, but also reinforce the work ethic by ensuring that people are only given enough to subsist without being to comfortable.

I will submit to you that the only way to eliminate the much maligned dependency is to regulate business to the extent where they must put people before profits and provide a good job for all regardless of the bottom line. I know, most are not going for that one….that would be SOCIALISM. So, to answer the OP question what do we do? I say that we keep people afloat in hard times, not just at a bare subsistence level, but in a way that allows them to maintain their dignity and health, and to keep their homes, knowing that they will again be productive citizens. Indeed, they are more likely to do so. However, we are by no means doing that. We cannot cut back on assistance while singing the praises of the fee market. We have to recognize and deal with the downside of capitalism. Yet so many staunch supporters of lais-sez faire are the same people who decry the cost of assistance for the less fortunate.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

This is a good example of the irrational fear of "Socialism"-born of ignorance and right wing propaganda that is infecting the political discourse :

Rand Paul Warns Sanders Presidency Could Lead To 'Mass Genocide' Submitted by Miranda Blue on Friday, 10/16/2015 11:52 am

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., joined South Carolina radio host Vince Coakley yesterday to discuss the first Democratic presidential debate, where he said the candidates were “all trying to outdo each other in their disdain for the economic system of capitalism that made us great.” The Republican presidential candidate linked Sen. Bernie Sanders, a self-proclaimed democratic socialist in the mold of Northern European countries, to the murderous communist regimes of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, saying that “most of the times when socialism has been tried” there “has been mass genocide of people or any of those who object to it.” - See more at: Rand Paul Warns Sanders Presidency Could Lead To 'Mass Genocide'

Equating Sanders to Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot? Seriously?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Bill Maher and Bernie Sanders spar over teaching Americans not to fear the word ‘Socialist’ Bill Maher and Bernie Sanders spar over teaching Americans not to fear the word ‘Socialist’

 

[danielpalos]

The right still doesn't understand that socialism starts with a social Contract like a Constitution.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yet so many staunch supporters of lais-sez faire are the same people who decry the cost of assistance for the less fortunate.

dear, bailing out failed banks and failed human beings creates moral hazard. Do you have the IQ to understand?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The right still doesn't understand that socialism starts with a social Contract like a Constitution.

ok stupid so there is some socialism in the Constitution. And????????????

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Yet so many staunch supporters of lais-sez faire are the same people who decry the cost of assistance for the less fortunate.

dear, bailing out failed banks and failed human beings creates moral hazard. Do you have the IQ to understand?

So that's it? That is your entire response to my post about capitalism and social welfare programs? Do you not have the IQ to do better? Or, is it just intellectual laziness?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yet so many staunch supporters of lais-sez faire are the same people who decry the cost of assistance for the less fortunate.

dear, bailing out failed banks and failed human beings creates moral hazard. Do you have the IQ to understand?

So that's it? That is your entire response to my post about capitalism and social welfare programs? Do you not have the IQ to do better? Or, is it just intellectual laziness?

dear if you have no fear of moral hazard please say exactly why or admit as a typical liberal that you lack the IQ to be here!! Thanks

 

[Indeependent]

Yet so many staunch supporters of lais-sez faire are the same people who decry the cost of assistance for the less fortunate.

dear, bailing out failed banks and failed human beings creates moral hazard. Do you have the IQ to understand?

So that's it? That is your entire response to my post about capitalism and social welfare programs? Do you not have the IQ to do better? Or, is it just intellectual laziness?

Chill, EB is all ad hominems and FoxNews sound bites.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Yet so many staunch supporters of lais-sez faire are the same people who decry the cost of assistance for the less fortunate.

dear, bailing out failed banks and failed human beings creates moral hazard. Do you have the IQ to understand?

So that's it? That is your entire response to my post about capitalism and social welfare programs? Do you not have the IQ to do better? Or, is it just intellectual laziness?

dear if you have no fear of moral hazard please say exactly why or admit as a typical liberal that you lack the IQ to be here!! Thanks

Dear, You are making a damned fool of yourself by continuing to attack me and question my intellect instead od providing a meaningful and thoughtful rebuttal to my post. What the fuck is this "moral hazard"? Try making some sense.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. What the fuck is this "moral hazard"?.

dear typical illiterate liberal, when we bailed out Wall Street many millions objected on grounds of "moral hazard", i.e., when you provide welfare you worsen the situation so that Wall Street, or people, have less incentive to work and more incentive to leech off of other people and engage in immoral, hazardous behavior.

Now do you understand?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If Socialism is so great, why aren't our Progressives hopping an inner tube to Fidel and his Progressive Mecca of no WiFi, no jobs, no running water?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If Socialism is so great, why aren't our Progressives hopping an inner tube to Fidel and his Progressive Mecca of no WiFi, no jobs, no running water?

Sadly, it may be because they want to recreate the Cuban economy here.

 

[danielpalos]

If Socialism is so great, why aren't our Progressives hopping an inner tube to Fidel and his Progressive Mecca of no WiFi, no jobs, no running water?

because our form of socialism is the best in the world; and, the right proves it every time they complain about the least wealthy buying steak and lobster on their EBT cards.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

. What the fuck is this "moral hazard"?.

dear typical illiterate liberal, when we bailed out Wall Street many millions objected on grounds of "moral hazard", i.e., when you provide welfare you worsen the situation so that Wall Street, or people, have less incentive to work and more incentive to leech off of other people and engage in immoral, hazardous behavior.

Now do you understand?

What I understand is that you fail to distinguish between corporate welfare and social safety net programs that are needed to insulate workers from the negative effects of capitalism.

I understand that you paint "socialism" -either out of ignorance or dishonesty -with a broad brush as though there was no difference between the programs and policies here that could arguably be "socialistic" and the disaster that is Cuba.

I understand that you have such a cynical view of human nature that you think that the incentive to work and to be self sufficient is easily destroyed by a little help in hard times.

Finally, I understand that it is-for the most part- the same people who rail against the bailouts who are opposed to tighter regulations to prevent corporate misbehavior that eventually drags us all down into financial crisis. You can't have it both ways.

 

[danielpalos]

. What the fuck is this "moral hazard"?.

dear typical illiterate liberal, when we bailed out Wall Street many millions objected on grounds of "moral hazard", i.e., when you provide welfare you worsen the situation so that Wall Street, or people, have less incentive to work and more incentive to leech off of other people and engage in immoral, hazardous behavior.

Now do you understand?

dear, only the right is that silly regarding a slippery slope and Individual Liberty.

some on the left objected because Socialism is always used to bailout the wealthiest capitalists and then let it trickle down.

 

[Freiheit]

Socialism is government ownership of the means of production and distribution. Twentieth century experience with socialism was failure. Twenty first century experience has been no different ie Venezuela. I am amazed that so many who espouse socialism have no idea what they are espousing.

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism is government ownership of the means of production and distribution. Twentieth century experience with socialism was failure. Twenty first century experience has been no different ie Venezuela. I am amazed that so many who espouse socialism have no idea what they are espousing.

nope; just political-science jargon for the clueless and the Causeless. Socialism starts with a social Contract and Constitution for the Body politic.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If Socialism is so great, why aren't our Progressives hopping an inner tube to Fidel and his Progressive Mecca of no WiFi, no jobs, no running water?

because our form of socialism is the best in the world; and, the right proves it every time they complain about the least wealthy buying steak and lobster on their EBT cards.

You're buying steak and lobster while the working Middle class can't, that's called "unsustainable"

It's never worked once any place it's been tried and ALWAYS lead to poverty and in the end mass murder

 

[danielpalos]

If Socialism is so great, why aren't our Progressives hopping an inner tube to Fidel and his Progressive Mecca of no WiFi, no jobs, no running water?

because our form of socialism is the best in the world; and, the right proves it every time they complain about the least wealthy buying steak and lobster on their EBT cards.

You're buying steak and lobster while the working Middle class can't, that's called "unsustainable"

It's never worked once any place it's been tried and ALWAYS lead to poverty and in the end mass murder

we have the largest economy in the world to prove it; can the right explain why we are spending social money on bailing out the wealthiest?