What was a reason for God to sacrifice His Son?

[ding]

Religion is the realm of teaching men how to live and how not to live.

Partly, yes!
Even more more crucial is learning to know God and realizing He is in our midst, that He is with us.

I agree, it is all part and parcel of how to live life and how not to live life; in the present. Walking in God's ways is how to live life; in the present. Having a relationship with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, alters the fabric of our identity so that we do walk in his ways; in the present. Too often we focus on the destination when it is the journey that counts. The Spirit of God is within us; in the present. We experience God in the present. We live life in the present.

Everyone is being pruned by God; in the present. He is constantly giving us feedback on how to live life. Those that see how he works in their life will have peace through the storm. We are all being pruned, tested and purified in the crucible of life. God's purpose isn't to achieve a certain outcome per se, it is to achieve a certain outcome under certain conditions. There is no virtue in being forced to be virtuous. We have to choose it freely for no other reason than it is the right thing to do despite the consequences to ourselves.

 

[Taz]

Can you prove that hell actually exists?

Remember, religion is in the realm of philosophy and the spiritual--beyond the physical world and beyond scientific proofs. The Talmud teaches the very evil of all nations go to hell, while the righteous of all nations will be with God. Near death experiences were known throughout the ancient world and throughout history into modern times. While no one has brought back a piece of hell, those who write of their experiences of hell did change how they lived their lives from then on. These anecdotal experiences from ancient times most likely is the basis for the philosophies of heaven and hell.

So you can't prove squat. Got it.

 

[Taz]

No, my position would be that the whole thing is TOTALLY LUDICROUS. lol.

But just in case, I'll probably repent on my dying day too.

And yet you believe in fairness; common decency. Where ever did you get such a foolish idea?

The nothing fair or decent in the bible, it's a book full of hate, killings and threats.

It's a book about humanity. How do you talk about humanity WITHOUT talking about hatred and killing?

There's a difference between "threats" and "warnings". If I tell you that jaywalking on the freeway will get you hit by a car, am I threatening to hit you with a car myself, or am I simply warning you about the consequences of a bad choice?

We're not talking about humanity but about god, who kills and threatens.

If I don't do certain things, I'm threatened with roasting. To turn around and say that I have a free choice or not to roast is hardly a choice, it's another threat disguised as a choice.

You don't believe in God. So you don't believe you will be threatened with roasting, now do you?

You conflate the question of does God exist with who is God. You argue that since God can't be who Judaeo-Christianity reveals him to be then he can't possibly exist. That's disingenuous. They are two separate questions and logically cannot be evaluated out of sequence.

Furthermore, you reveal your intentions when you habitually misrepresent the beliefs of Judaeo-Christianity.

I say god has not been proven to exist, and has not be proven to not be possible to exist. You stand corrected.

So only those who believe in god can get roasted?

 

[Taz]

You don't know God's mind. No one does. You should leave the judging to him.

You keep telling me what god is going to do to me because I'm not a believer, so you're admitting that you don't actually know what god wants?

Since he is going to grant you YOUR wish, it is you doing it to yourself.

But again you are missing the point of it all. It is about living, not dying. You want to focus on the destination, when it is the journey that is important.

But I never start a journey without knowing what the destination is, that's called roaming around aimlessly.

 

[Taz]

You'll have to prove that.

No. I don't. I'm happy enough for you to find out on your own.

As usual, you have no proof. Must be nice to live in a fantasy world.

The proof is everywhere. I've gone over it many times with you.

The proof for the god of the bible doesn't exist. You're right, we have gone over this many times.

Of course proof exists. Creation and everything which has happened since Creation is all the proof you need.

For starters all you need to do is look inside yourself.

"Now the position would be quite hopeless but for this. There is one thing, and only one, in the whole universe which we know more about than we could learn from external observation. That one thing is Man. We do not merely observe men, we are men. In this case we have, so to speak, inside information; we are in the know. And because of that, we know that men find themselves under a moral law, which they did not make, and cannot quite forget even when they try, and which they know they ought to obey. Notice the following point. Anyone studying Man from the outside as we study electricity or cabbages, not knowing our language and consequently not able to get any inside knowledge from us, but merely observing what we did, would never get the slightest evidence that we had this moral law. How could he? for his observations would only show what we did, and the moral law is about what we ought to do. In the same way, if there were anything above or behind the observed facts in the case of stones or the weather, we, by studying them from outside, could never hope to discover it.

The position of the question, then, is like this. We want to know whether the universe simply happens to be what it is for no reason or whether there is a power behind it that makes it what it is. Since that power, if it exists, would be not one of the observed facts but a reality which makes them, no mere observation of the facts can find it. There is only one case in which we can know whether there is anything more, namely our own case. And in that one case we find there is. Or put it the other way round. If there was a controlling power outside the universe, it could not show itself to us as one of the facts inside the universe—no more than the architect of a house could actually be a wall or staircase or fireplace in that house. The only way in which we could expect it to show itself would be inside ourselves as an influence or a command trying to get us to behave in a certain way. And that is just what we do find inside ourselves. Surely this ought to arouse our suspicions?" C.S. Lewis

I'm not saying that a god might not exist, but rather that the god described in the bible has not been proven. Ex: the Big Bang can't be the moment of when god said "let there be light" because light didn't come into being until hundreds of millions of years after the BB.

 

[Taz]

The Pope just said that there is no hell.

The Catholic Church teaches there is a hell (just not Dante's version of it). Unfortunately, the outlet publishing this story isn't all that credible, especially in the way it covers the Pope. Possibly, it could be Pope Francis personal belief there is no hell because he seemed to be focused on a couple of scripture passages.

The first mentions that the chaff is burned away and only what is good survives. The second is where Jesus mentions not to fear those who can only kill the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. The Pope's thinking seemed to be what others have said before him: While hell is eternal, once destroyed, the soul is gone forever. (i.e., no one spends an eternity in fire, they are completely destroyed.)

So god is going to roast me if I don't follow the church. Sheesh, next they'll want money.

No, you'll send yourself to Hell through your own choices. Don't try to fob responsibility for your life fuck-ups onto God.

Can you prove that hell actually exists?

Sure. Go lock yourself in a totally dark room for three days with no contact with anyone but yourself.

Then come back and tell me that wasn't hell.

So the hell described in the bible doesn't exist? (which is what Ceci is talking about.)

 

[Meriweather]

So you can't prove squat. Got it.

I hope so. I've explained this to you several times before. People who are at all interested in seeking God must first stop clinging to land and objects and take wing into what is beyond the five senses. I have come to realize, just like air travel, this spiritual journey is not for all. Taz, you have given all indications it is not for you. If aeronautics were not for you, I doubt you would waste your life standing in front of NASA trying to convince others it is not for them, either.

We have something you don't. We won't be giving it up, any more than a pilot or astronaut will give up what they have. Go live your life. There is no place for you here. Why not find something you are passionate about and pursue that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I know my bible, and I know who Mary is.

Then you should know that Mary is a Spiritual host in the Kingdom of Heaven within that brings forth a child who is to rule the spiritual nations created within you too, right?

What he actually should know is that that is what YOU believe. What you should know is that not everyone shares your beliefs, or even needs to.

If YOU or "he" desires to know what I believe simply ask. If anyone desire to ignore what I may share here or anywhere else feel free to do so as its on you or anyone else when they chose to do that, not me.

Yeah, who said we desired to know it? I said that's what you're telling us, completely unasked. You asserted it as an unquestionable tenet of Christian belief, but it is, in fact, merely a belief specific to some groups of Christians and not others. And it is in no way obligatory for anyone to agree with you in order to be a Christian or to go to Heaven.

Growth filled communities should explore all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth. Diversity of thought is critical to the process. Honest men and women can have honest differences of opinions without being disrespectful or fearful of expressing their thoughts.

I for one enjoy hearing the diverse beliefs of others.

I learn new ways of looking at and understanding my own beliefs by hearing those of others. My feeling is that any religion that has been around for centuries probably includes some very accurate insights into human nature and the world around us. I think this is why widely diverse religions have so many things in common.

You'll notice that my explanation of the Crucifixion, for example, included concepts derived from Buddhism. I can't bring myself to accept a universe that is kind enough to give mulligans (reincarnation), but if you're looking for profound, nuanced philosophy, you can do a lot worse.

Also, I think if there's one thing fantasy/sci fi literature has done for us, it's to provide a framework in the imagination which can encompass speculative thoughts and ideas far more easily than our ancestors in the Biblical era. My husband and I were agreeing just the other day that we both believe there's some sort of larger end-game scenario that necessitates God's grand experiment with humans and free will that the Bible didn't even bother to try to explain to our primitive forebears, and only very vaguely hinted at in Revelation. We definitely think there's more to the prophecies of Armageddon than merely a battle with Satan and his fallen angels, because why bother if that's all it is?

 

[Taz]

So you can't prove squat. Got it.

I hope so. I've explained this to you several times before. People who are at all interested in seeking God must first stop clinging to land and objects and take wing into what is beyond the five senses. I have come to realize, just like air travel, this spiritual journey is not for all. Taz, you have given all indications it is not for you. If aeronautics were not for you, I doubt you would waste your life standing in front of NASA trying to convince others it is not for them, either.

We have something you don't. We won't be giving it up, any more than a pilot or astronaut will give up what they have. Go live your life. There is no place for you here. Why not find something you are passionate about and pursue that.

I'm passionate about finding some truth in the whole god thing. So far I've only found delusion, fantasy and wishful thing. Oh, and a whole lot of made up nonsense.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Catholic Church teaches there is a hell (just not Dante's version of it). Unfortunately, the outlet publishing this story isn't all that credible, especially in the way it covers the Pope. Possibly, it could be Pope Francis personal belief there is no hell because he seemed to be focused on a couple of scripture passages.

The first mentions that the chaff is burned away and only what is good survives. The second is where Jesus mentions not to fear those who can only kill the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. The Pope's thinking seemed to be what others have said before him: While hell is eternal, once destroyed, the soul is gone forever. (i.e., no one spends an eternity in fire, they are completely destroyed.)

So god is going to roast me if I don't follow the church. Sheesh, next they'll want money.

No, you'll send yourself to Hell through your own choices. Don't try to fob responsibility for your life fuck-ups onto God.

Can you prove that hell actually exists?

Sure. Go lock yourself in a totally dark room for three days with no contact with anyone but yourself.

Then come back and tell me that wasn't hell.

So the hell described in the bible doesn't exist? (which is what Ceci is talking about.)

Who knows? It's not like anyone who's gone has come back to give a report.

I believe there is an eternal existence as a part of "the dark side of the Force", if you will, the aspect of the universe that is not in alignment with and separated from God. Christians call that Hell; others call it other things. I believe they all come out to the same thing, ultimately.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So you can't prove squat. Got it.

I hope so. I've explained this to you several times before. People who are at all interested in seeking God must first stop clinging to land and objects and take wing into what is beyond the five senses. I have come to realize, just like air travel, this spiritual journey is not for all. Taz, you have given all indications it is not for you. If aeronautics were not for you, I doubt you would waste your life standing in front of NASA trying to convince others it is not for them, either.

We have something you don't. We won't be giving it up, any more than a pilot or astronaut will give up what they have. Go live your life. There is no place for you here. Why not find something you are passionate about and pursue that.

I'm passionate about finding some truth in the whole god thing. So far I've only found delusion, fantasy and wishful thing. Oh, and a whole lot of made up nonsense.

No, you aren't. You're passionate about hating Christianity, and about derailing and shutting down any and all discussions about it and preventing anyone from ever having a chance to consider it seriously and thoughtfully.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm passionate about finding some truth in the whole god thing. So far I've only found delusion, fantasy and wishful thing. Oh, and a whole lot of made up nonsense.

First, put away the Little Golden Book accounts and step out of the sandbox. Second, learn the differences between science and philosophy. Third, leave the farm as there is no need to build straw men.

 

[kjw47]

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Who says it's god's written word?

Much has proven true, Revelation has been occurring for over a century.

Like what? The flood hasn’t been proven to be true. And the Big Bang wasn’t the moment light appeared.

Archeologists dug many sights mentioned in ot . They found very wicked civilizations--they commented--We don't know why God waited so long to destroy them.

 

[kjw47]

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Salvation works from the inside out. Our Spirit is born again, not our flesh. We continue to sin, but if we are really saved and keep following Jesus, we will become more like him. It's a process.

So what happens to my soul if i don't follow jesus?

The lake of fire= the 2nd death--death everlasting--not eternal suffering. Gods justice scales make that an impossible reality.

So god is going to roast me for eternity? What a nice guy!

Its impossible, I told you for eternal suffering to be a reality-- Teachers of darkness teach it.

 

[kjw47]

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Um, may I ask what is God's written word?

The 66 books of the bible.

So god wrote those?

God inspired the original writings. Once the religion that came out of Rome translated--they translated to fit in false council teachings. Every trinity translation on earth is altered and error filled.

 

[kjw47]

Its in the bible.

But some guys just made the whole thing up, like the flood. Noah couldn't have gotten kangaroos on his ark and back again, it would defy reality.

Noah had God on his side. When David as a young man confronted Goliath said--You come with Sword, Shield and Javelin, I come in the Name of YHWH(Jehovah), and killed Goliath.

So god poofed the roos over? Why not just not drown the animals?

You just assume that occurred. Don't forget God only rested creating. Who says he didn't create new species after the flood as well? They find new species today.

So after the flood, god poofed some new animals into being all over the world.

No one knows the exact happenings.

 

[kjw47]

Salvation works from the inside out. Our Spirit is born again, not our flesh. We continue to sin, but if we are really saved and keep following Jesus, we will become more like him. It's a process.

So what happens to my soul if i don't follow jesus?

Were you made aware of him?

I’ve heard the bible stories, so what? What will happen to my soul?

If you ain't right, you're gonna burn in hell, 'nuff said?

No joke and true story.

The Pope just said that there is no hell.

All who know the true God, knows eternal suffering is not a truth.

 

[Penelope]

Perhaps you can start a thread and learn who and what Mary is?

I know my bible, and I know who Mary is.

Really , so you must know the gospels were wrote after Pauls letters. Luke and ACT was wrote somewhere about 90 AD. Paul's letter were put in order by length.

Doesn't matter when the Gospels were written. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Really seems Paul had no idea about Jesus. Holy Spirit didn't come till the death of Jesus, explain this. PS: I take it you did not know this facts.

Have you ever read the book of Acts?

Which was wrote by the same pen as Luke, so the books say, somewhere about 80- 90 Ad.

 

[BS Filter]

I know my bible, and I know who Mary is.

Really , so you must know the gospels were wrote after Pauls letters. Luke and ACT was wrote somewhere about 90 AD. Paul's letter were put in order by length.

Doesn't matter when the Gospels were written. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Really seems Paul had no idea about Jesus. Holy Spirit didn't come till the death of Jesus, explain this. PS: I take it you did not know this facts.

Have you ever read the book of Acts?

Which was wrote by the same pen as Luke, so the books say, somewhere about 80- 90 Ad.

Yes, and both Luke and Acts are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Why can't you acknowledge that fact?

 

[Penelope]

Really , so you must know the gospels were wrote after Pauls letters. Luke and ACT was wrote somewhere about 90 AD. Paul's letter were put in order by length.

Doesn't matter when the Gospels were written. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Really seems Paul had no idea about Jesus. Holy Spirit didn't come till the death of Jesus, explain this. PS: I take it you did not know this facts.

Have you ever read the book of Acts?

Which was wrote by the same pen as Luke, so the books say, somewhere about 80- 90 Ad.

Yes, and both Luke and Acts are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Why can't you acknowledge that fact?

I doubt that. It was wrote my men, and Acts is historical to the point it explains about Pauls and his journeys and letters. Paul spent most of his time in now known as Turkey and Greece, and some time in Palestine, not much. Romans was probably one of his last letters and he was planning on going to Spain and trying to make money for his trip. (so it's said)