Whatever Happened to Electric Cars?

[Flopper]

Still too expensive when compared to gas vehicles, and 2017 is too far away.

The ultimate test will be how many they sell in comparison to hybrid cars, but I doubt they will out sell them or change the market.

The EV market will continue to grow. Generating electricity will also grow. The renewable generation of electricity has come a long way, and will continue to do so.

As the need grows, so will the need for nuclear power plants. Properly run they are our best option right now.

yeah it is a good thing however windmills and solar panels do not do much

for demand times

we need many more nuke plants but good luck getting that through

However, the market is barely keeping pace with current projected electricity needs, any increased use is bad for the environment and will make it difficult to meet 'green energy' targets. What electric cars will lead to, is more non-renewable power and coal or gas plants.

Your post brings up the question of co2 emissions due to fossil fuel electric power generation to power an electric vehicle versus emissions from fossil fuel used to power a gas vehicle. Would there be more or less co2 emission from a gasoline vehicle driving say a hundred miles or from the fossil needed to generate the electricity to power an electric vehicle driving that distance?

Posted an RT video on that earlier, if an electric car gets energy generation from coal (or other non-renewable source) then it produces more carbon emissions/pollution into the atmosphere than a fossil fuel vehicle. Most countries use non-renewables, so it would be a stretch to suggest that electric cars would be 'better for the environment', as even many European countries can't reach current electricity demands without fossil fuel generation.

But another point to be made is how would electricity companies possibly build the required capacity to keep up with out of control energy demands, as in this hypothetical near future (where every car is standard electric and not hydrogen fuel cell). The answer is four options:
A) Increase electricity prices to pay for the new infrastructure, possibly by 100% or more given the massive energy demands.
B) Only add infrastructure as required or when new plants can be budgeted, resulting in big power outages only usually seen in third world countries.
C) Heavily subsidize electricity companies, out of the taxpayers pocket in state and federal taxes. Expect everyone's taxes to increase by 20% or more. This would create an oversupply, but high power bills would be paid in taxes.
D) A combination of all three.

The article I read, says that CO2 emission of electric and fossil fuel cars are neck and neck. However, the article did not take into account several important factors. 30% of electric power generation in the US is from non-fossil fuels, primarily, nuclear and hydroelectric which have essential zero emissions. Secondly,the emissions due to transportation of the fuel to power plants is much less than the transportation to service stations, particular transportation of natural gas.

If we were faced with electric cars claiming a large portion of the market in the near future, generating capacity would be a big problem but that's not the case. Using current sales figures, in 20 years, electric cars would account for only a half of one percent of the cars on the road. That is certainly not going to create a power shortage. Lastly, new power plants coming on line are more efficient at generating power and reducing emissions.

http://evtc.fsec.ucf.edu/reports/EVTC-RR-01-14.pdf
Do electric cars really produce fewer emissions Leo Hickman Environment The Guardian

 

[Flopper]

Those who seem so opposed to the EVs have yet to actually do anything to provide an alternative. If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them? The chief complaint I have seen is that there is no infrastructure in place for refueling. The same could have been said for the Tesla. But they went out and worked on solving the problem.

It always amazes me that so many conservatives seem adamantly against the success of teh Tesla and other EVs.

Tesla was started by entrepreneurs with an idea. Yes, they borrowed to start the production. But manufacturing cars is not like making wicker baskets. There must be a considerable investment to start up. Their first car rolled off the production lines in 2008. The same year the economy crashed in the worst way since the Great Depression. And STILL Tesla managed to survive and repay the debt.

The complain about EVs was that they were limited in range. They fixed that partly with ingenuity in the technology, and partly buy building a network of charging stations nation wide, as they were still building their original business.

Isn't all of that the sort of business that conservatives WANT to see??

The biggest barrier in regard to infrastructure is most Americans can't easily charge their vehicles at home because they either live in apartments, condominiums, or older homes without electric capacity or garages. Since charging a vehicle can take 10 to 20 hours or at a 240 volt charging station, 4 hours, charging the car at home is a big plus. I have a friend who has a Volt and lives in a condo. He drives his car to a park and ride 5 miles from his home to charge it and it takes about 6 hours.

When you consider the charging time, 4hrs versus 2 mins to fill a tank, the lack of hauling capacity, the cost, and the lack of charging stations, EV's are going to remain a second car for most people who purchase them for a long time.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Those who seem so opposed to the EVs have yet to actually do anything to provide an alternative. If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them? The chief complaint I have seen is that there is no infrastructure in place for refueling. The same could have been said for the Tesla. But they went out and worked on solving the problem.

It always amazes me that so many conservatives seem adamantly against the success of teh Tesla and other EVs.

Tesla was started by entrepreneurs with an idea. Yes, they borrowed to start the production. But manufacturing cars is not like making wicker baskets. There must be a considerable investment to start up. Their first car rolled off the production lines in 2008. The same year the economy crashed in the worst way since the Great Depression. And STILL Tesla managed to survive and repay the debt.

The complain about EVs was that they were limited in range. They fixed that partly with ingenuity in the technology, and partly buy building a network of charging stations nation wide, as they were still building their original business.

Isn't all of that the sort of business that conservatives WANT to see??

If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them?

that actually is in the process

this is but just one

2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell Hydrogen-Powered Vehicle Hyundai

 

[namvet]

guess it didn't work out eh nanna???

 

[hipeter924]

Those who seem so opposed to the EVs have yet to actually do anything to provide an alternative. If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them? The chief complaint I have seen is that there is no infrastructure in place for refueling. The same could have been said for the Tesla. But they went out and worked on solving the problem.

It always amazes me that so many conservatives seem adamantly against the success of teh Tesla and other EVs.

Tesla was started by entrepreneurs with an idea. Yes, they borrowed to start the production. But manufacturing cars is not like making wicker baskets. There must be a considerable investment to start up. Their first car rolled off the production lines in 2008. The same year the economy crashed in the worst way since the Great Depression. And STILL Tesla managed to survive and repay the debt.

The complain about EVs was that they were limited in range. They fixed that partly with ingenuity in the technology, and partly buy building a network of charging stations nation wide, as they were still building their original business.

Isn't all of that the sort of business that conservatives WANT to see??

If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them?

that actually is in the process

this is but just one

2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell Hydrogen-Powered Vehicle Hyundai

Japan plans to have 6000 Honda/Toyota Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars and to build 32 stations in Tokyo, in time for the 2020 olympics: Toyota Honda in talks to put 6 000 fuel cell cars on road in Tokyo by 2020 Olympics

 

[Wyatt earp]

If anyone believed that electric cars would overtake gas powered cars in less than a decade, I have a bridge I would love to sell you.

But there have been advances. And there are over 100,000 production electric vehicles on the road now. Not bad considering the entire industry is just a few years old.

A few years old? Lmao, you ignorant fool electric cars are as old as gasoline ones

 

[hipeter924]

The EV market will continue to grow. Generating electricity will also grow. The renewable generation of electricity has come a long way, and will continue to do so.

As the need grows, so will the need for nuclear power plants. Properly run they are our best option right now.

yeah it is a good thing however windmills and solar panels do not do much

for demand times

we need many more nuke plants but good luck getting that through

However, the market is barely keeping pace with current projected electricity needs, any increased use is bad for the environment and will make it difficult to meet 'green energy' targets. What electric cars will lead to, is more non-renewable power and coal or gas plants.

Your post brings up the question of co2 emissions due to fossil fuel electric power generation to power an electric vehicle versus emissions from fossil fuel used to power a gas vehicle. Would there be more or less co2 emission from a gasoline vehicle driving say a hundred miles or from the fossil needed to generate the electricity to power an electric vehicle driving that distance?

Posted an RT video on that earlier, if an electric car gets energy generation from coal (or other non-renewable source) then it produces more carbon emissions/pollution into the atmosphere than a fossil fuel vehicle. Most countries use non-renewables, so it would be a stretch to suggest that electric cars would be 'better for the environment', as even many European countries can't reach current electricity demands without fossil fuel generation.

But another point to be made is how would electricity companies possibly build the required capacity to keep up with out of control energy demands, as in this hypothetical near future (where every car is standard electric and not hydrogen fuel cell). The answer is four options:
A) Increase electricity prices to pay for the new infrastructure, possibly by 100% or more given the massive energy demands.
B) Only add infrastructure as required or when new plants can be budgeted, resulting in big power outages only usually seen in third world countries.
C) Heavily subsidize electricity companies, out of the taxpayers pocket in state and federal taxes. Expect everyone's taxes to increase by 20% or more. This would create an oversupply, but high power bills would be paid in taxes.
D) A combination of all three.

The article I read, says that CO2 emission of electric and fossil fuel cars are neck and neck. However, the article did not take into account several important factors. 30% of electric power generation in the US is from non-fossil fuels, primarily, nuclear and hydroelectric which have essential zero emissions. Secondly,the emissions due to transportation of the fuel to power plants is much less than the transportation to service stations, particular transportation of natural gas.

If we were faced with electric cars claiming a large portion of the market in the near future, generating capacity would be a big problem but that's not the case. Using current sales figures, in 20 years, electric cars would account for only a half of one percent of the cars on the road. That is certainly not going to create a power shortage. Lastly, new power plants coming on line are more efficient at generating power and reducing emissions.

http://evtc.fsec.ucf.edu/reports/EVTC-RR-01-14.pdf
Do electric cars really produce fewer emissions Leo Hickman Environment The Guardian

Only a few areas of the country can exclusively select renewable energy sources, and the electricity is naturally more expensive from those sources. Just because wind, hydro and solar is in the the power grid does not mean that non-renewable electricity isn't used by a majority of US households in addition. Nuclear power also produces radioactive waste, and so on.

 

[hipeter924]

If anyone believed that electric cars would overtake gas powered cars in less than a decade, I have a bridge I would love to sell you.

But there have been advances. And there are over 100,000 production electric vehicles on the road now. Not bad considering the entire industry is just a few years old.

A few years old? Lmao, you ignorant fool electric cars are as old as gasoline ones

Even older maybe, depending on how you define a car, and electric cars still have a long way to go.

 

[WinterBorn]

If anyone believed that electric cars would overtake gas powered cars in less than a decade, I have a bridge I would love to sell you.

But there have been advances. And there are over 100,000 production electric vehicles on the road now. Not bad considering the entire industry is just a few years old.

A few years old? Lmao, you ignorant fool electric cars are as old as gasoline ones

Really? How many production electric cars were made or sold in the US in the last 50 years?

 

[WinterBorn]

If anyone believed that electric cars would overtake gas powered cars in less than a decade, I have a bridge I would love to sell you.

But there have been advances. And there are over 100,000 production electric vehicles on the road now. Not bad considering the entire industry is just a few years old.

A few years old? Lmao, you ignorant fool electric cars are as old as gasoline ones

Even older maybe, depending on how you define a car, and electric cars still have a long way to go.

As I asked Bear, how many production EVs have been made in the last 50 years? Especially prior to 2008.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Electric cars 1900

 

[Flopper]

Those who seem so opposed to the EVs have yet to actually do anything to provide an alternative. If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them? The chief complaint I have seen is that there is no infrastructure in place for refueling. The same could have been said for the Tesla. But they went out and worked on solving the problem.

It always amazes me that so many conservatives seem adamantly against the success of teh Tesla and other EVs.

Tesla was started by entrepreneurs with an idea. Yes, they borrowed to start the production. But manufacturing cars is not like making wicker baskets. There must be a considerable investment to start up. Their first car rolled off the production lines in 2008. The same year the economy crashed in the worst way since the Great Depression. And STILL Tesla managed to survive and repay the debt.

The complain about EVs was that they were limited in range. They fixed that partly with ingenuity in the technology, and partly buy building a network of charging stations nation wide, as they were still building their original business.

Isn't all of that the sort of business that conservatives WANT to see??

If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them?

that actually is in the process

this is but just one

2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell Hydrogen-Powered Vehicle Hyundai

Japan plans to have 6000 Honda/Toyota Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars and to build 32 stations in Tokyo, in time for the 2020 olympics: Toyota Honda in talks to put 6 000 fuel cell cars on road in Tokyo by 2020 Olympics

This reminds me of the early days of automobiles, when companies were producing electric, wood and coal fired steam autos, and gasoline vehicles. The gasoline power cars prevailed. Which one of the zero emission vehicles will prevail is yet to be determined but one will eventually out pace all the rest.

 

[WinterBorn]

Electric cars 1900

Great, they were around in 1900. There was also cars that worked like watches, and you had to wind the spring. But I don't think there were any production models in the last 50 years.

That is not what I asked you.

 

[Political Junky]

Big Oil is fighting electric vehicles, they're running scared.

 

[hipeter924]

Those who seem so opposed to the EVs have yet to actually do anything to provide an alternative. If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them? The chief complaint I have seen is that there is no infrastructure in place for refueling. The same could have been said for the Tesla. But they went out and worked on solving the problem.

It always amazes me that so many conservatives seem adamantly against the success of teh Tesla and other EVs.

Tesla was started by entrepreneurs with an idea. Yes, they borrowed to start the production. But manufacturing cars is not like making wicker baskets. There must be a considerable investment to start up. Their first car rolled off the production lines in 2008. The same year the economy crashed in the worst way since the Great Depression. And STILL Tesla managed to survive and repay the debt.

The complain about EVs was that they were limited in range. They fixed that partly with ingenuity in the technology, and partly buy building a network of charging stations nation wide, as they were still building their original business.

Isn't all of that the sort of business that conservatives WANT to see??

If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them?

that actually is in the process

this is but just one

2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell Hydrogen-Powered Vehicle Hyundai

Japan plans to have 6000 Honda/Toyota Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars and to build 32 stations in Tokyo, in time for the 2020 olympics: Toyota Honda in talks to put 6 000 fuel cell cars on road in Tokyo by 2020 Olympics

This reminds me of the early days of automobiles, when companies were producing electric, wood and coal fired steam autos, and gasoline vehicles. The gasoline power cars prevailed. Which one of the zero emission vehicles will prevail is yet to be determined but one will eventually out pace all the rest.

If automobiles even exist at all, since we are talking about the future of transportation - quite easily bicycles, walking and public transport options like trains, buses, and private aircraft, could well put an end to the automobile.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Those who seem so opposed to the EVs have yet to actually do anything to provide an alternative. If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them? The chief complaint I have seen is that there is no infrastructure in place for refueling. The same could have been said for the Tesla. But they went out and worked on solving the problem.

It always amazes me that so many conservatives seem adamantly against the success of teh Tesla and other EVs.

Tesla was started by entrepreneurs with an idea. Yes, they borrowed to start the production. But manufacturing cars is not like making wicker baskets. There must be a considerable investment to start up. Their first car rolled off the production lines in 2008. The same year the economy crashed in the worst way since the Great Depression. And STILL Tesla managed to survive and repay the debt.

The complain about EVs was that they were limited in range. They fixed that partly with ingenuity in the technology, and partly buy building a network of charging stations nation wide, as they were still building their original business.

Isn't all of that the sort of business that conservatives WANT to see??

If hydrogen is the future, then how about some enterprising American Entrepreneur come up with workable models and start selling them?

that actually is in the process

this is but just one

2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell Hydrogen-Powered Vehicle Hyundai

Japan plans to have 6000 Honda/Toyota Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars and to build 32 stations in Tokyo, in time for the 2020 olympics: Toyota Honda in talks to put 6 000 fuel cell cars on road in Tokyo by 2020 Olympics

they have been running them in southern California for over a year now

the real breakthrough with hydrogen when

the vehicle itself can efficiently extract enough hydrogen out of ordinary items like water

to operate

 

[Wyatt earp]

Sorry had to work, this is a serious question? They were mass produced before gasoline cars, starting around The 1880s So think about it in over 100 years still no great leaps and bounds in battery technology, with all the money thrown at it the tech still sucks
Electric car - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[jon_berzerk]

Sorry had to work, this is a serious question? They were mass produced before gasoline cars, starting around The 1880s So think about it in over 100 years still no great leaps and bounds in battery technology, with all the money thrown at it the tech still sucks
Electric car - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

the solution to a successful electric auto

is not in the idea of a "better battery"

that will never happen

what must happen is for a cheap and safe method

of creating electricity on the go in these autos

once that hurtle has been met

electric autos will be the wave of the future

 

[Wyatt earp]

It's the battery dude, Obama is throwing billions of dollars at it read about it a few years ago

Hydrogen is the next thing, I remember watching nova the first power plants filled an entire Ford van cargo bay, now they got so small only 3/4 th the size. Greenland with all it's thermal vents are leading the way

 

[Wyatt earp]

You could be right John I remember reading about highways built like our old AFX slot cars