When a deep red town’s only grocery closed, city hall opened its own store. Socialism?

[iamwhatiseem]

Interesting--a city-owned supermarket...designed to break even..for the good of its residents--but City run private enterprise..is NOT capitalism--It just struck me..that the 'socialism' word gets tossed around a lot..mostly by those who have little or no idea of what is actually means---this..is what it means, at the grass-roots:

When a deep red town’s only grocery closed, city hall opened its own store. Just don’t call it ‘socialism.’

"When Sean Lynch ran for mayor, he never anticipated that the job would involve hiring a butcher and tracking the sale of collard greens. Baldwin, Fla., is surrounded by farm country, and in late October, local green beans, tomatoes, peanuts, cabbage and milk filled the shelves of the Baldwin Market, which the town owns.

Notably, these experiments in communal ownership are taking place in deep-red parts of the country where the word “socialism” is anathema. “You expect to hear about this in a place like the People’s Republic of Massachusetts,” jokes Brian Lang, the director of the National Campaign for Healthy Food Access at The Food Trust.

But in many rural, conservative communities struggling to hang on to their remaining residents, ideological arguments about the role of government tend to be cast aside as grocery stores shutter due to population decline and competition from superstores.

“Fundamentally, what you have is people that have lived in these rural communities all their lives, and they want these rural communities to survive,” Procter said. “And they realize that without access to food, they’re not going to survive.”

By definition, a collectively owned, government-run enterprise like the Baldwin Market is inherently socialist. But Lynch, who has a nonpartisan position but governs a town where 68 percent of residents voted for Donald Trump in 2016, doesn’t see it that way. From his point of view, the town is just doing what it’s supposed to do: Providing services to residents who already pay enough in taxes.

. At the Baldwin Market, which opened its doors on Sept. 20, all of the employees are on the municipal payroll, from the butcher to the cashiers. Workers from the town’s maintenance department take breaks from cutting grass to help unload deliveries, and residents flag down the mayor when they want to request a specific type of milk.

“We're not trying to make a profit,” Lynch told The Washington Post in a recent interview. “We're trying to cover our expenses, and keep the store running. Any money that's made after that will go into the town in some way.”"

Interesting, so are you advocating for the government to take over all private business, or just trolling?

 

[flack]

It isn't socialism, I know you need it to be but it is not. They are not keeping competition out, they are simply filling a void that exists. If another store opens, then the city store would shut down. Nice try though.

The state has stepped in because capitalism has failed these people. Happens everywhere. Its socialism,its good.

Government is not controlling the production of goods and services, it is a distribution point. Also, the citizens of the community still have private property. Sorry but this does not fit the description, unless you want to flat out lie and distort what socialism actually means.

Socialism is a bad idea, it stops innovation, gives government all the power and ruins the creative entrepreneurial spirit. You wouldn't understand concepts of personal responsibility, innovation and creativity.

You have a bizarre understanding of socialism. It isn't communism. I'm a socialist and own my own place and I also own shares in several companies. During the cold war, you could still buy pineapples in Moscow. Were those stores commie or capitalist ?
The state owns the shop which they have to because capitalism has failed this community. The state provides my healthcare because the capitalist system failed to do so. Likewise, education, policing, housing, sanitation, water. Socialism is a reaction to the failures of capitalism.It provides a safety net for people that capitalism leaves behind or has no use for.

Definition of socialism
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


Public works is not socialism, public works is in every form of government and has been since the beginning. Try a different angle because so far you are failing. In a totally socialist society, production would be under the state.

So a store that shut down because the did not get the revenue is what capitalism is, it isn't a failure, it is a success. A local store could not succeed because the local people did not support it. Capitalism doesn't mean every business is successful, it means that you have an opportunity to risk and fail or succeed. As far as you owning stocks? If you were living in a real socialistic government, there would be none because government would own the business and production.

So under your shaky definitions the NHS is not a socialist entity, just public works. I think you want to tag all bad things as socialism and anything good cant be socialism.
Deep down you still live under the reds under the bed scares of the 50s,your thinking hasnt evolved since Macarthy.

I should also point out that capitalism failed these folks because it did not provide them with what they needed. The state stepped in and used public money to make the difference. It usually does so. You might not like that but there you go.

Unfortunately he was right.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

A strong central government—the state—controls all aspects of economic production

By contrast, under socialism, individuals can still own property. But industrial production, or the chief means of generating wealth, is communally owned and managed by a democratically elected government.

Long one...., i'm gong out on a limb and ask , what if corporations control the state cloaked in the guise of democratic process generate and control wealth'

???

~S~

That's known as business as usual!

you don't read worrisome parallels it that Evil one?

Corporate influence profiting from our foreign and domestic policies ....etc etc

~S~

That ship sailed a long time ago. "The business of America is business."

We can leaven our Capitalism with a dash of social responsibility...but it is the Capitalism that provides the power that allows luxuries such as a social safety net. Cut the people in for too big a slice of the pie...and the pie goes away.

Ike warned us..but it was already too late.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Interesting--a city-owned supermarket...designed to break even..for the good of its residents--but City run private enterprise..is NOT capitalism--It just struck me..that the 'socialism' word gets tossed around a lot..mostly by those who have little or no idea of what is actually means---this..is what it means, at the grass-roots:

When a deep red town’s only grocery closed, city hall opened its own store. Just don’t call it ‘socialism.’

"When Sean Lynch ran for mayor, he never anticipated that the job would involve hiring a butcher and tracking the sale of collard greens. Baldwin, Fla., is surrounded by farm country, and in late October, local green beans, tomatoes, peanuts, cabbage and milk filled the shelves of the Baldwin Market, which the town owns.

Notably, these experiments in communal ownership are taking place in deep-red parts of the country where the word “socialism” is anathema. “You expect to hear about this in a place like the People’s Republic of Massachusetts,” jokes Brian Lang, the director of the National Campaign for Healthy Food Access at The Food Trust.

But in many rural, conservative communities struggling to hang on to their remaining residents, ideological arguments about the role of government tend to be cast aside as grocery stores shutter due to population decline and competition from superstores.

“Fundamentally, what you have is people that have lived in these rural communities all their lives, and they want these rural communities to survive,” Procter said. “And they realize that without access to food, they’re not going to survive.”

By definition, a collectively owned, government-run enterprise like the Baldwin Market is inherently socialist. But Lynch, who has a nonpartisan position but governs a town where 68 percent of residents voted for Donald Trump in 2016, doesn’t see it that way. From his point of view, the town is just doing what it’s supposed to do: Providing services to residents who already pay enough in taxes.

. At the Baldwin Market, which opened its doors on Sept. 20, all of the employees are on the municipal payroll, from the butcher to the cashiers. Workers from the town’s maintenance department take breaks from cutting grass to help unload deliveries, and residents flag down the mayor when they want to request a specific type of milk.

“We're not trying to make a profit,” Lynch told The Washington Post in a recent interview. “We're trying to cover our expenses, and keep the store running. Any money that's made after that will go into the town in some way.”"

Interesting, so are you advocating for the government to take over all private business, or just trolling?

I'm not advocating jack....just tossed this out...for some discussion, we seldom use govt. in such a direct fashion..we usually go to the Co-Op model in these circumstances.

The town had a need..instead of the citizens banding together in an economic endeavor..they used the City govt. to address what is arguably a private sector job.

Govt. is not in danger of taking over business--if anything--the reverse is true.

 

[Crepitus]

The real test of whether this instance is socialism will come IF somebody makes an offer to buy the store and run it. But it it were honestly and prices set to reflect insane minimum wage rates and allow a reasonable profit margin would anyone come in the door to buy? If the community would sell then it's capitalism. If refused? Socialism. If it's refused AND the offerer is denied permission to build a competitive store? Communism.

You guys are trying too hard.

 

[Papageorgio]

Government is not controlling the production of goods and services, it is a distribution point. Also, the citizens of the community still have private property. Sorry but this does not fit the description, unless you want to flat out lie and distort what socialism actually means.

Socialism is a bad idea, it stops innovation, gives government all the power and ruins the creative entrepreneurial spirit. You wouldn't understand concepts of personal responsibility, innovation and creativity.

You have a bizarre understanding of socialism. It isn't communism. I'm a socialist and own my own place and I also own shares in several companies. During the cold war, you could still buy pineapples in Moscow. Were those stores commie or capitalist ?
The state owns the shop which they have to because capitalism has failed this community. The state provides my healthcare because the capitalist system failed to do so. Likewise, education, policing, housing, sanitation, water. Socialism is a reaction to the failures of capitalism.It provides a safety net for people that capitalism leaves behind or has no use for.

Definition of socialism
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


Public works is not socialism, public works is in every form of government and has been since the beginning. Try a different angle because so far you are failing. In a totally socialist society, production would be under the state.

So a store that shut down because the did not get the revenue is what capitalism is, it isn't a failure, it is a success. A local store could not succeed because the local people did not support it. Capitalism doesn't mean every business is successful, it means that you have an opportunity to risk and fail or succeed. As far as you owning stocks? If you were living in a real socialistic government, there would be none because government would own the business and production.

So under your shaky definitions the NHS is not a socialist entity, just public works. I think you want to tag all bad things as socialism and anything good cant be socialism.
Deep down you still live under the reds under the bed scares of the 50s,your thinking hasnt evolved since Macarthy.

I should also point out that capitalism failed these folks because it did not provide them with what they needed. The state stepped in and used public money to make the difference. It usually does so. You might not like that but there you go.

Healthcare that if it is completely run by the government would be a form of socialism. I wasn’t around for McCarthy, so that proves once again you aren’t very bright

Capitalism did not fail, there are dozens of stores about 10 miles away. I grew up living 20 miles from my nearest grocery store. I bet there are areas in rural Wales where stores are a distance away. I was in Canada and in the Yukon Territory, you can go a hundred miles without gas or food. I have driven from Lakeview, OR and went to Winnemucca, NV, not a store the entire distance. 200 miles, no store, no gas. How many stores would you put up out there? What about Canada? Greenland? Russia? Capitalism fail in all those countries?

Socialism stifles innovation, it reduces production. Entrepreneurs would be nonexistent.

Go ahead and answer with your insults, that is all you have. No facts, no logic, just insults.

NO ONE is calling for the Socialism you are arguing against and on top of that there is NO ONE arguing that people should not be able to make a living off the things they create.

Yours is a fallacious argument.

Never said anyone is calling for socialism. Tommy is calling what happened in Florida socialism and it is not. It is not capitalism failing either. You need to learn to follow a conversation before chiming in.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Most Trumpers would be totally OK with socialism if they could guarantee that those "other people" don't benefit from it.....and by other people, I mean anyone who isn't part of their tribe...

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

As far as capitalism failing......we have known for decades the evils of capitalism....and to keep those evils in check, it takes a bit of socialism in order to strike the right balance....

 

[sparky]

As far as capitalism failing......we have known for decades the evils of capitalism....and to keep those evils in check, it takes a bit of socialism in order to strike the right balance....

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FWIW, MLK was assassinated after declaring classism the root of racism

~S~