ding
Confront reality
- Oct 25, 2016
- 120,092
- 21,292
Integral to the conversation is the Jewish perception of Satan. The Jews don’t believe Satan is a fallen angel. They believe that Satan is an angel who works for God whose job it is to test us; to tempt us.And yet they did believe that there would be a reward and punishment at death. The rest is semantics.There is no basis to believe that Jesus' contemporaries believed in hell. None. Not a single one. Jesus was Jewish. Sheol in the jewish tradition is a place of non-existence outside of God's presence, and predates Christianity by centuries.But not the only one. And given the weight of all of them, it’s pretty clear early Christians did not believe as you say. Being canonical or not is irrelevant.The sources are what they are; representative of early Christian beliefs. They are not authoritative of what hell actually is.
Early Christians did not believe as you said they did.
You can always provide your non-authoritative sources. Because my sources are from early Christians who were discussing their beliefs about hell.
No your source specifically says their writings "are neither canonical nor authoritative". I already referred you to the Apocalypse of Peter which is believed to have been written before all your source's non-authoritative sources except perhaps one.
c. 100-125 B.C. "The Apocalypse of Peter is the earliest Christian reference to the afterlife, describing in vivid detail the paradise of Heaven and the torments of Hell. The work is quite early, for it was referenced by Clement and likely used by the author of the Apocalypse of Paul; It may even predate the canonical Apocalypse (Revelation) of John. The book was included in the Muratorian Canon (c.200 C.E.) as well as the Codex Claramontanus. It is difficult to speculate why it fell out of favor in the orthodox church, except perhaps that it was often associated with the heretical Gospel of Peter. " The Apocalypse Of Peter
You keep saying that they are not authoritative like we shouldn’t weigh them. As near as I can tell your only measure for authoritative is canonical which means nothing.
No it isn't semantics as they believed the punishment was to not be in God's presence which is far cry different than and eternity of being conscious and tortured in fire and brimstone for all of eternity.
So the Jews must believe in at least two different outcomes from the test. You can call them whatever you like.
But it is torture to exist when God removes his spirit from us. So one of the two outcomes is not pleasant.