Zone1 When did man start to believe he was bigger than God?

[Cougarbear]

wow... you are unbelievably brainwashed.

You're saying that just bc you can't understand 'where God came from'

HE CAME FROM A MAN!

And who created the man He came from?

geez... I feel like my brain cells are dithering trying to talk to people of certain odd religions (cults)

I answered that. Are you unable to comprehend what you read? Jesus Christ is a resurrected now glorified man. If you are a Christian, then you believe Jesus and the Father are one or the same personage. So, You then must now believe that God is a glorified man. There is no scripture that says when Jesus was resurrected and returned to sit on His throne that he took off his resurrected body. That would be impossible as we have the same promise to be risen into incorruptible resurrected bodies too and your thought of taking off bodies would make the Lord a liar. But, that cannot be. So, both the Father and Son are resurrected glorified men.

We simply do not believe the Father and Son are the same personage. That they have always been separate and distinct personages. That their "oneness" is of purpose only. It's apostate Christians that believe "one" refers to one body or personage that somehow magically can break off and shift their shapes and the Father, or the Son or the Holy Ghost. Today's mainstream Christians and the Catholics seem to love magic and priestcrafts. Must be from the middle ages.

 

[onefour1]

When did man start to believe he was bigger than God?​

I would defend Adam and Eve to those who think the fall of Adam and Eve would be a time when man thought himself bigger or better than God. Adam and Eve lived in innocence before the fall. They never knew evil and were never lied to before Satan came along. Satan lied to Eve and told here they would not die. Of course Adam and Eve never even understood what death was since they had never experienced it before. So they didn't really have a true understanding of it and didn't really fear it. Satan also mixed his lie with truth and told Eve she would become like God himself. Adam and Eve were able to see God and understood his greatness and it must have been quite a temptation to be told that they could become like him. God himself confirms that Adam and Eve did become more like God as the following verse tells us:

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

God knew that Adam and Eve would fall long before he placed them in the Garden of Eden. For this reason he called and foreordained Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the world before the foundation of the world. If God didn't want the fall to occur, then why place two innocent beings in the garden and also put Satan in their midst. Why put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden know full well that they would partake of it. Why command against eating from it knowing full well that they would partake of it after being tempted by Satan. Maybe just maybe God wanted Adam and Eve to become more like God and learn good from evil and set up the whole situation of the fall to bring about the mortality of mankind to learn and experience good and evil to learn to choose good over evil. From the time of the fall, Adam and Eve practiced repentance and followed the world of God and I believe they were saved into the kingdom of heaven.

- to be continued -

 

[onefour1]

What I believe is the first real rejection of God and the believe of man on earth to be above God would be the case of Cain and Able and then Lamech. This the story from the Book of Moses:

Moses 5

1 And it came to pass that after I, the Lord God, had driven them out, that Adam began to till the earth, and to have dominion over all the beasts of the field, and to eat his bread by the sweat of his brow, as I the Lord had commanded him. And Eve, also, his wife, did labor with him.
2 And Adam knew his wife, and she bare unto him sons and daughters, and they began to multiply and to replenish the earth.
3 And from that time forth, the sons and daughters of Adam began to divide two and two in the land, and to till the land, and to tend flocks, and they also begat sons and daughters.
4 And Adam and Eve, his wife, called upon the name of the Lord, and they heard the voice of the Lord from the way toward the Garden of Eden, speaking unto them, and they saw him not; for they were shut out from his presence.
5 And he gave unto them commandments, that they should worship the Lord their God, and should offer the firstlings of their flocks, for an offering unto the Lord. And Adam was obedient unto the commandments of the Lord.
6 And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
7 And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth.
8 Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.
9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
12 And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters.
13 And Satan came among them, saying: I am also a son of God; and he commanded them, saying: Believe it not; and they believed it not, and they loved Satan more than God. And men began from that time forth to be carnal, sensual, and devilish.
14 And the Lord God called upon men by the Holy Ghost everywhere and commanded them that they should repent;
15 And as many as believed in the Son, and repented of their sins, should be saved; and as many as believed not and repented not, should be damned; and the words went forth out of the mouth of God in a firm decree; wherefore they must be fulfilled.
16 And Adam and Eve, his wife, ceased not to call upon God. And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bare Cain, and said: I have gotten a man from the Lord; wherefore he may not reject his words. But behold, Cain hearkened not, saying: Who is the Lord that I should know him?
17 And she again conceived and bare his brother Abel. And Abel hearkened unto the voice of the Lord. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
18 And Cain loved Satan more than God. And Satan commanded him, saying: Make an offering unto the Lord.
19 And in process of time it came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
20 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock, and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel, and to his offering;
21 But unto Cain, and to his offering, he had not respect. Now Satan knew this, and it pleased him. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
22 And the Lord said unto Cain: Why art thou wroth? Why is thy countenance fallen?
23 If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him;
24 For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his lies; thou shalt be called Perdition; for thou wast also before the world.
25 And it shall be said in time to come—That these abominations were had from Cain; for he rejected the greater counsel which was had from God; and this is a cursing which I will put upon thee, except thou repent.
26 And Cain was wroth, and listened not any more to the voice of the Lord, neither to Abel, his brother, who walked in holiness before the Lord.
27 And Adam and his wife mourned before the Lord, because of Cain and his brethren.
28 And it came to pass that Cain took one of his brothers’ daughters to wife, and they loved Satan more than God.
29 And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die; and swear thy brethren by their heads, and by the living God, that they tell it not; for if they tell it, they shall surely die; and this that thy father may not know it; and this day I will deliver thy brother Abel into thine hands.
30 And Satan sware unto Cain that he would do according to his commands. And all these things were done in secret.
31 And Cain said: Truly I am Mahan, the master of this great secret, that I may murder and get gain. Wherefore Cain was called Master Mahan, and he gloried in his wickedness.
32 And Cain went into the field, and Cain talked with Abel, his brother. And it came to pass that while they were in the field, Cain rose up against Abel, his brother, and slew him.
33 And Cain gloried in that which he had done, saying: I am free; surely the flocks of my brother falleth into my hands.
34 And the Lord said unto Cain: Where is Abel, thy brother? And he said: I know not. Am I my brother’s keeper?
35 And the Lord said: What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother’s blood cries unto me from the ground.
36 And now thou shalt be cursed from the earth which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand.
37 When thou tillest the ground it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength. A fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
38 And Cain said unto the Lord: Satan tempted me because of my brother’s flocks. And I was wroth also; for his offering thou didst accept and not mine; my punishment is greater than I can bear.
39 Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the Lord, and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that he that findeth me will slay me, because of mine iniquities, for these things are not hid from the Lord.
40 And I the Lord said unto him: Whosoever slayeth thee, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And I the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
41 And Cain was shut out from the presence of the Lord, and with his wife and many of his brethren dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
42 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bare Enoch, and he also begat many sons and daughters. And he builded a city, and he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch.
43 And unto Enoch was born Irad, and other sons and daughters. And Irad begat Mahujael, and other sons and daughters. And Mahujael begat Methusael, and other sons and daughters. And Methusael begat Lamech.
44 And Lamech took unto himself two wives; the name of one being Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah.
45 And Adah bare Jabal; he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and they were keepers of cattle; and his brother’s name was Jubal, who was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
46 And Zillah, she also bare Tubal Cain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron. And the sister of Tubal Cain was called Naamah.
47 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah: Hear my voice, ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech; for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
48 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech shall be seventy and seven fold;
49 For Lamech having entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan; and Irad, the son of Enoch, having known their secret, began to reveal it unto the sons of Adam;
50 Wherefore Lamech, being angry, slew him, not like unto Cain, his brother Abel, for the sake of getting gain, but he slew him for the oath’s sake.
51 For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination, and their works were in the dark, and they knew every man his brother.
52 Wherefore the Lord cursed Lamech, and his house, and all them that had covenanted with Satan; for they kept not the commandments of God, and it displeased God, and he ministered not unto them, and their works were abominations, and began to spread among all the sons of men. And it was among the sons of men.
53 And among the daughters of men these things were not spoken, because that Lamech had spoken the secret unto his wives, and they rebelled against him, and declared these things abroad, and had not compassion;
54 Wherefore Lamech was despised, and cast out, and came not among the sons of men, lest he should die.
55 And thus the works of darkness began to prevail among all the sons of men.
56 And God cursed the earth with a sore curse, and was angry with the wicked, with all the sons of men whom he had made;
57 For they would not hearken unto his voice, nor believe on his Only Begotten Son, even him whom he declared should come in the meridian of time, who was prepared from before the foundation of the world.
58 And thus the Gospel began to be preached, from the beginning, being declared by holy angels sent forth from the presence of God, and by his own voice, and by the gift of the Holy Ghost.
59 And thus all things were confirmed unto Adam, by an holy ordinance, and the Gospel preached, and a decree sent forth, that it should be in the world, until the end thereof; and thus it was. Amen.

 

[notmyfault2020]

I answered that. Are you unable to comprehend what you read? Jesus Christ is a resurrected now glorified man. If you are a Christian, then you believe Jesus and the Father are one or the same personage. So, You then must now believe that God is a glorified man.

sorry but I feel i have to be completely DONE with you. You make absolutely NO sense.. your religion is hogwash.

But hey, maybe the novus ordo knuckleheads at the Vatican would accept you. They say all religions are equally valid..

I do not.

I cannot have a conversation w/ someone who believes such insane stuff...

 

[Cougarbear]

sorry but I feel i have to be completely DONE with you. You make absolutely NO sense.. your religion is hogwash.

But hey, maybe the novus ordo knuckleheads at the Vatican would accept you. They say all religions are equally valid..

I do not.

I cannot have a conversation w/ someone who believes such insane stuff...

Why are you so obtuse? Do you believe Jesus Christ has been resurrected? If so, since he was a man on earth, he must be a glorified resurrected man in Heaven now. Why is that so difficult for you to wrap your simpleton mind around?
And, as most Christians falsely believe, Jesus Christ and the Father are the same personage. That the Father came off his throne and came to the earth as a human man to atone for our sins and lead the way back resurrected for us to also be resurrected. So, God the Father, according to mainsceam Christianity must by your own logic be a glorified resurrected man. Instead of throwing up words, actually have the balls to use scripture and correct me if I'm wrong. Instead, you run away from this like liberals do when confronted with facts and truth.

 

[ding]

Was it the Computer Age? After we put man on the moon? After Darwin showed up with his theories?

I'm curious to know this.

No. It happened at the very beginning. We only have two choices. We can worship the created or we can worship the creator.

 

[ding]

Was it the Computer Age? After we put man on the moon? After Darwin showed up with his theories?

I'm curious to know this.

I believe the answer to the question you are asking is it began in the late 18th century when we replaced natural law (spirit of the law) with legal positivism (letter of the law).

 

[shockedcanadian]

I believe the answer to the question you are asking is it began in the late 18th century when we replaced natural law (spirit of the law) with legal positivism (letter of the law).

Until some men ignored such laws. That really is an affront to that which is good and righteous.

 

[Ringo]

Humanity will not master space until it overcomes the chaotic commodity production known as the "free market," which not only wastes the world's resources, but also brings increasingly destructive crises, wars, and disasters upon it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When the human race figured out that humans invented God.

 

[shockedcanadian]

When the human race figured out that humans invented God.

And the Big Bang Theory?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And the Big Bang Theory?

What about it?

 

[shockedcanadian]

What about it?

Is that not invented? If so, what do you believe in?

 

[BULLDOG]

Is that not invented? If so, what do you believe in?

I say the big bang is the best theory we have at present that matches what we do know. Until someone comes up with a better theory, it seems the big bang is closer than any other theory that we have.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Is that not invented? If so, what do you believe in?

No, it's discovered. That emerged from empirical evidence. I.E., the literal opposite.

The inflationary period is a fact. It doesn't matter what I believe about it.

 

[shockedcanadian]

No, it's discovered. That emerged from empirical evidence. I.E., the literal opposite.

The inflationary period is a fact. It doesn't matter what I believe about it.

I am not going to go down this rabbot hole with you again.The problem is, regardless of this debate, the emergence of ANY theory, does not preclude the potential for a God. It is the one question tha drives all deep thinkers mad "who made ______" The origin of God himself is not immune from this mind bending question.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The problem is, regardless of this debate, the emergence of ANY theory, does not preclude the potential for a God

Who is it a problem for? No rational person. Rational people understand that there can never be evidence for or against magical claims. That's what magic is.

The orign of God himself is easy: humans invented him. It's a fictional character. That's where smart money lies, anyway.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Who is it a problem for? No rational person. Rational people understand that there can never be evidence for or against magical claims. That's what magic is.

The orign of God himself is easy: humans invented him. It's a fictional character. That's where smart money lies, anyway.

Ok. You place your money on that bet and I will place my own money somewhere else.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ok. You place your money on that bet and I will place my own money somewhere else.

Yes, totally fair. Believe what you like. If it makes you happy, I am happy for you.