When did Zionism have anything to do with religion?

[Phoenall]

I am sorry you have not educated yourself. The Bible is not a work of fiction. Not in its entirety. Many of the historical parts of it have been proven archeologically.

Erm...no.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
  
• did not wander in the desert,
  
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

Biblical Archaeologists, on the other hand, are only interested in finding evidence to support Bible/Torah stories, their objectivity is questionable.

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

Quite right, you are finally getting the point, basing your whole argument on one book, the Bible/Torah, shows that you don't have an argument.

Well done, now off you go and read those expansive books you mention; then come back and prove how wrong Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University, is.

Only one problem I don't base my whole argument on the Bible, I base it on non religious sources from many different places. So why do you LIE when you are backed into a corner.

 

[Humanity]

Erm...no.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
  
• did not wander in the desert,
  
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

Biblical Archaeologists, on the other hand, are only interested in finding evidence to support Bible/Torah stories, their objectivity is questionable.

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That has got to be the post of the year so far Phoney!

Zionists basing their whole argument on one book shows that they too don't have an argument?

Oh no, sorry, correction....

One book and the great Sky Wizard!

What a dumbsass!

Only you mentioned the great sky wizard, I base my whole argument on many books and no great sky wizard and I am still a Zionist.

seems that you cant read and understand English all that well, could it be that it is not your first language

Oh goodness Phoney, if you get any dumber you won't be able to turn your computer on and post shite!

We can only hope!

Tell, me which OTHER book says that the Sky Wizard gave Israel to the Jews?

 

[Phoenall]

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That has got to be the post of the year so far Phoney!

Zionists basing their whole argument on one book shows that they too don't have an argument?

Oh no, sorry, correction....

One book and the great Sky Wizard!

What a dumbsass!

Only you mentioned the great sky wizard, I base my whole argument on many books and no great sky wizard and I am still a Zionist.

seems that you cant read and understand English all that well, could it be that it is not your first language

Oh goodness Phoney, if you get any dumber you won't be able to turn your computer on and post shite!

We can only hope!

Tell, me which OTHER book says that the Sky Wizard gave Israel to the Jews?

Why don't you tell me as I have never said that have I, I have said that the LoN gave the 22% of Palestine remaining after trans Jordan as the national home for the Jews. The arab muslims got theirs with Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi and Egypt

 

[Challenger]

Erm...no.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
  
• did not wander in the desert,
  
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

Biblical Archaeologists, on the other hand, are only interested in finding evidence to support Bible/Torah stories, their objectivity is questionable.

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

Quite right, you are finally getting the point, basing your whole argument on one book, the Bible/Torah, shows that you don't have an argument.

Well done, now off you go and read those expansive books you mention; then come back and prove how wrong Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University, is.

Only one problem I don't base my whole argument on the Bible, I base it on non religious sources from many different places. So why do you LIE when you are backed into a corner.

That's true, since you can't produce any argument at all, you make up a fantasy fiction in your head that you have produced an argument and then accuse other people of lying (that's rich coming from the second biggest liar on the forum (Rude-eee takes top spot there). Stop trolling the forum and get a life, or better yet, show me evidence of a genuine scholarly argument that counters this.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
• did not wander in the desert,
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

I won't hold my breath.

 

[Challenger]

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That has got to be the post of the year so far Phoney!

Zionists basing their whole argument on one book shows that they too don't have an argument?

Oh no, sorry, correction....

One book and the great Sky Wizard!

What a dumbsass!

Only you mentioned the great sky wizard, I base my whole argument on many books and no great sky wizard and I am still a Zionist.

seems that you cant read and understand English all that well, could it be that it is not your first language

Oh goodness Phoney, if you get any dumber you won't be able to turn your computer on and post shite!

We can only hope!

Tell, me which OTHER book says that the Sky Wizard gave Israel to the Jews?

Why don't you tell me as I have never said that have I, I have said that the LoN gave the 22% of Palestine remaining after trans Jordan as the national home for the Jews. The arab muslims got theirs with Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi and Egypt

No they didn't.

 

[Phoenall]

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

Quite right, you are finally getting the point, basing your whole argument on one book, the Bible/Torah, shows that you don't have an argument.

Well done, now off you go and read those expansive books you mention; then come back and prove how wrong Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University, is.

Only one problem I don't base my whole argument on the Bible, I base it on non religious sources from many different places. So why do you LIE when you are backed into a corner.

That's true, since you can't produce any argument at all, you make up a fantasy fiction in your head that you have produced an argument and then accuse other people of lying (that's rich coming from the second biggest liar on the forum (Rude-eee takes top spot there). Stop trolling the forum and get a life, or better yet, show me evidence of a genuine scholarly argument that counters this.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
• did not wander in the desert,
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

I won't hold my breath.

Because one person says so you accept his word because in meets with your POV, and all other studies are just Zionist propaganda.

 

[Phoenall]

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That has got to be the post of the year so far Phoney!

Zionists basing their whole argument on one book shows that they too don't have an argument?

Oh no, sorry, correction....

One book and the great Sky Wizard!

What a dumbsass!

Only you mentioned the great sky wizard, I base my whole argument on many books and no great sky wizard and I am still a Zionist.

seems that you cant read and understand English all that well, could it be that it is not your first language

Oh goodness Phoney, if you get any dumber you won't be able to turn your computer on and post shite!

We can only hope!

Tell, me which OTHER book says that the Sky Wizard gave Israel to the Jews?

Why don't you tell me as I have never said that have I, I have said that the LoN gave the 22% of Palestine remaining after trans Jordan as the national home for the Jews. The arab muslims got theirs with Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi and Egypt

No they didn't.

LINK ?

 

[Challenger]

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

Quite right, you are finally getting the point, basing your whole argument on one book, the Bible/Torah, shows that you don't have an argument.

Well done, now off you go and read those expansive books you mention; then come back and prove how wrong Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University, is.

Only one problem I don't base my whole argument on the Bible, I base it on non religious sources from many different places. So why do you LIE when you are backed into a corner.

That's true, since you can't produce any argument at all, you make up a fantasy fiction in your head that you have produced an argument and then accuse other people of lying (that's rich coming from the second biggest liar on the forum (Rude-eee takes top spot there). Stop trolling the forum and get a life, or better yet, show me evidence of a genuine scholarly argument that counters this.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
• did not wander in the desert,
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

I won't hold my breath.

Because one person says so you accept his word because in meets with your POV, and all other studies are just Zionist propaganda.

Trying to deflect like the lunatic you are, still not holding my breath.

 

[Challenger]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That has got to be the post of the year so far Phoney!

Zionists basing their whole argument on one book shows that they too don't have an argument?

Oh no, sorry, correction....

One book and the great Sky Wizard!

What a dumbsass!

Only you mentioned the great sky wizard, I base my whole argument on many books and no great sky wizard and I am still a Zionist.

seems that you cant read and understand English all that well, could it be that it is not your first language

Oh goodness Phoney, if you get any dumber you won't be able to turn your computer on and post shite!

We can only hope!

Tell, me which OTHER book says that the Sky Wizard gave Israel to the Jews?

Why don't you tell me as I have never said that have I, I have said that the LoN gave the 22% of Palestine remaining after trans Jordan as the national home for the Jews. The arab muslims got theirs with Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi and Egypt

No they didn't.

LINK ?

 

[Challenger]

*sigh* Oh, all right then, one more time

The Balfour Declaration The Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict Amazon.co.uk Jonathan Schneer 9781408809709 Books

A Line in the Sand Britain France and the Struggle That Shaped the Middle East Amazon.co.uk James Barr 9781847394576 Books

The War for Palestine Rewriting the History of 1948 Cambridge Middle East Studies Amazon.co.uk Eugene L. Rogan Avi Shlaim 9780521699341 Books

Peacemakers Six Months that Changed The World The Paris Peace Conference of 1919 and Its Attempt to End War Amazon.co.uk Margaret MacMillan 9780719562372 Books

One Palestine Complete Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate Amazon.co.uk Tom Segev 9780349112862 Books

 

[Roudy]

Following on from a recent comment by a British Zionist I thought I would ask this question of peoples views/understanding of Zionism....

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel

I am all for the establishment of homelands for displaced peoples... The Kurds for example....

However, as far as I am aware, The Kurds are not looking for a homeland that is exclusively Kurdish! They live where they have ALWAYS lived, but have been oppressed/persecuted through the millennia.

There are a great many tribes around the world who wish for a homeland, for nationalist and political reasons, NOT for religious reasons!

Two other prominent examples, Tamil and Sawaari, have also been fighting for decades for a homeland...

All are tribes, not religions!

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!

Actually by your comparison, the land belongs to the Jews.

There are Kurds all over the world today, born and raised in Europe, U.S., etc. If tomorrow an independent state of Kurdistan comes into existence, and these Kurds who are being oppressed and killed by Islamic savages decide to go back and join their brethren in their ancient homeland, are these migrating Kurds now colonists and invaders in the land of their ancestors?

And what if there are a bunch of Arab Muslim asshole invaders already there, who disagree with this state...do they then get to kill Kurds as they please and in the name of Allah, as they are today?

Like the Kurds all that the Jews did was join their brethren who have kept a presence in that land for thousands of years.

Game set match.

So you say Give the Kurds their own country YET deny the Palestinians......there is something fcuked in your logic....Roudy..........Did you know that when the Kurds in Iraq were Gassed by Sadam......it was given approval by the US,moreover the poison-gas was supplied by the USA..............so who are the real Savages Roudy..............You,that's WHO.

steve the all knowing theliq....ever living,ever faithful and always Sure.

Oh hello again dipstick. There was never a Palestine country or Palestinian people, so why should land be given to people who never had it. Palestine is a new 20th century phenomenon. The land belonged to the Ottomans for 700 years and EVEN THEY DIDN'T CALL IT "PALESTINE".

 

[teddyearp]

Erm...no.<snip>

Well I suppose I wouldn't expect any other type of response from you, don't you also deny the Holocaust?

 

[teddyearp]

I am sorry that I have not been sucked into a fictitious piece of literature...<snip>

Ahh, now I get it, you're also an atheist. That explains much.

 

[teddyearp]

More "Mufti the Bogeyman" rubbish.

What are you saying? The Mufti of Jerusalem did not exist? Or are you denying that he did the things he did. Things that are undeniable?

 

[teddyearp]

Ok, you want some reading to do? Check out these two titles:

Exodus Leon Uris 9780553258479 Amazon.com Books

That's about the birth of the nation of Israel. And for more on the Mufti, check this one out:

The Haj Leon Uris 9780553248647 Amazon.com Books


I especially like the latter as it talks about the Arabs leaving Israel. It gives another reason for them to leave. And it have nothing to do with being scared of the Israelites. It is because they are afraid to stay in case the Arab League calls them collaborators. Sound familiar?

 

[aris2chat]

Ok, you want some reading to do? Check out these two titles:

Exodus Leon Uris 9780553258479 Amazon.com Books

That's about the birth of the nation of Israel. And for more on the Mufti, check this one out:

The Haj Leon Uris 9780553248647 Amazon.com Books


I especially like the latter as it talks about the Arabs leaving Israel. It gives another reason for them to leave. And it have nothing to do with being scared of the Israelites. It is because they are afraid to stay in case the Arab League calls them collaborators. Sound familiar?

unfortunately you picked two titles that are historical novel. The events around the family are true but the family is fiction. It is a good depiction of what was happening but the main characters are fiction

How about the case for Israel by Gervasi, a lot of appendix documents, or history of Israel by Sachar, or israel a history by Gilbert

 

[Phoenall]

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

Quite right, you are finally getting the point, basing your whole argument on one book, the Bible/Torah, shows that you don't have an argument.

Well done, now off you go and read those expansive books you mention; then come back and prove how wrong Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University, is.

Only one problem I don't base my whole argument on the Bible, I base it on non religious sources from many different places. So why do you LIE when you are backed into a corner.

That's true, since you can't produce any argument at all, you make up a fantasy fiction in your head that you have produced an argument and then accuse other people of lying (that's rich coming from the second biggest liar on the forum (Rude-eee takes top spot there). Stop trolling the forum and get a life, or better yet, show me evidence of a genuine scholarly argument that counters this.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
• did not wander in the desert,
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

I won't hold my breath.

Because one person says so you accept his word because in meets with your POV, and all other studies are just Zionist propaganda.

Trying to deflect like the lunatic you are, still not holding my breath.

It is you trying to deflect away from the facts, one paltry book and you ignore the many hundreds of others that saw differently. You are a sad brainwashed loser, just like the rest of the neo marxists

 

[Phoenall]

*sigh* Oh, all right then, one more time

The Balfour Declaration The Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict Amazon.co.uk Jonathan Schneer 9781408809709 Books

A Line in the Sand Britain France and the Struggle That Shaped the Middle East Amazon.co.uk James Barr 9781847394576 Books

The War for Palestine Rewriting the History of 1948 Cambridge Middle East Studies Amazon.co.uk Eugene L. Rogan Avi Shlaim 9780521699341 Books

Peacemakers Six Months that Changed The World The Paris Peace Conference of 1919 and Its Attempt to End War Amazon.co.uk Margaret MacMillan 9780719562372 Books

One Palestine Complete Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate Amazon.co.uk Tom Segev 9780349112862 Books

So where are the extracts from the full book so that we can see your so called evidence ourselves. Or would that destroy your claims because they say the same thing as International law does.

The LoN gave 22% of Palestine to the Jews for their National home as outlined in the Mandate for Palestine 1923

 

[Humanity]

I am sorry that I have not been sucked into a fictitious piece of literature...<snip>

Ahh, now I get it, you're also an atheist. That explains much.

Nope, agnostic, thank you!

Does that explain anything to you?

 

[Linkiloo]

If so, then zionism is just fine isn't it?

It ISN'T BECAUSE THEY ARE VERMIN

Who are vermin? Are you in the habit of calling people vermin who live in their country and go about their daily business?

No, that's a Zionist trait.

" [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin,
"The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." Yitzhak Shamir
"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin.

Well since I agree that the Jews have a right to their own homeland, as do the palestinians and the Tibetans, I must be vermin.

Pity that is your viewpoint.