Which is more important, freedom of religion or freedom of equality?

[Two Thumbs]

So, if equality and religion come head to head, which one should win? This is America, we shouldn't force our views on each other

We've had cases of bakers saying they shouldn't serve gay people because it goes against their religion, but what of the freedom of equality for those gay people? this is where leftist show their ignorance. It's not just religion, is also property rights. No shirt, shoes, no service. That property is open to the public, but it's still their private property.

Here's another case with a reverse twist.

Usually what you see is if the religion is Christianity then the people who are going for freedom of equality are considered to be wrong by a large section of Christians.
However this is Islam. Will those who defended Christianity now be defending Islam? (I doubt it). christians won't saw off your head and post it on youtube either, but facts are ignored by morons

Swiss boys' refusals to shake female teacher's hand prompt $5,000 fine good thing we don't live there

"
After two Syrian boys in Switzerland asked to be excused from shaking a female teacher's hand because they said it violated their faith, their canton announced Wednesday that families of children who refuse to participate in the tradition that starts and ends the school day will be fined.

The fine will be up to $5,000, the Swiss canton said in a statement Wednesday.

"The public interest with respect to equality between men and women and the integration of foreigners significantly outweigh the freedom of conscience (freedom of religion) of the students," reads a translation of the statement, according to The Washington Post. "This differs from the wearing of a headscarf or absence of swimming lessons…. [T]he social gesture of the handshake is important for the employability of students later in their professional lives.""


leftist confuse equality with tyranny. They demand everyone accept everything everywhere.

I don't want you naked in my house, you better get dressed or get out.

In my current abode, you better bring a good guy with a machete(hope not!) Or accept no surrender.

so you have naked guys with machetes sitting around your house?

do they at least bring beer?

Geez. I'm survivalist. Im in a "Fastness".

and that is?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I think that this question as a whole has come from a misunderstanding. I'll go ahead and break it down to make it easier to address your points.

So, if equality and religion come head to head, which one should win?

We've had cases of bakers saying they shouldn't serve gay people because it goes against their religion, but what of the freedom of equality for those gay people?

Firstly, any and all businesses are allowed to deny service to anyone for any reason. Most don't, as if they turn down service, that customer will go to their competitor. I see no problem here.

Here's another case with a reverse twist.

Usually what you see is if the religion is Christianity then the people who are going for freedom of equality are considered to be wrong by a large section of Christians.
However this is Islam. Will those who defended Christianity now be defending Islam? (I doubt it).

Swiss boys' refusals to shake female teacher's hand prompt $5,000 fine

"
After two Syrian boys in Switzerland asked to be excused from shaking a female teacher's hand because they said it violated their faith, their canton announced Wednesday that families of children who refuse to participate in the tradition that starts and ends the school day will be fined.

The fine will be up to $5,000, the Swiss canton said in a statement Wednesday.

Christianity is often misunderstood. There is nothing in the Bible that tells you to treat certain people differently from others, in fact, it tells you to love your neighbor, and then tells you everyone is your neighbor. However, our freedoms allow us to treat other people however we like, so long as we are not harming them or their property. The way I often explain this to people is that we have a freedom to be a bad person, and if the government attempts to stop that, we are having our freedoms taken away, and at that point, they are deciding which of even the most mundane actions are right or wrong, and forcing us to act as they think we should.

"The public interest with respect to equality between men and women and the integration of foreigners significantly outweigh the freedom of conscience (freedom of religion) of the students," reads a translation of the statement, according to The Washington Post. "This differs from the wearing of a headscarf or absence of swimming lessons…. [T]he social gesture of the handshake is important for the employability of students later in their professional lives.""

This isn't equality here. People are allowed to choose not to shake the hands of others. This is another case of even the most mundane actions being dictated by the government, and that's taking power too far. It's stomping all over freedom, and a step towards treating citizens as property, as the Soviet Union had. There is no point at which this is okay, and no excuse for it. Furthermore, if you're favoring the woman having her hand shaken, rather than their right to refuse, you're favoring one person's rights over another, which by definition is not equality.

This one's a keeper. Well done.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So, I'll do this Two Thumbs style.

So, if equality and religion come head to head, which one should win?

Neither.

We've had cases of bakers saying they shouldn't serve gay people because it goes against their religion, but what of the freedom of equality for those gay people?

Neither should be forcing their views or preferences on one another. There needs to be some sort of mutual respect. However now, the law favors the marital equality of one set of people over the other's religious beliefs.

Usually what you see is if the religion is Christianity then the people who are going for freedom of equality are considered to be wrong by a large section of Christians.
However this is Islam. Will those who defended Christianity now be defending Islam? (I doubt it).

What's with the trap questions? Why were you more concerned with the "equality" of Christianity and not that of Islam? Homosexuals are treated far worse in Islam. Massacred. Too bad you're too busy condemning Christianity to care about the barbarism being perpetrated in Islam.

Hard to copy awesome, but that was a solid effort.

On the awesome scale of 1-10 you score a 4.3.

a 1 being Dark Fury and an 11 being me.

Teach me thine ways, O Master!

 

[The Great Goose]

So, if equality and religion come head to head, which one should win? This is America, we shouldn't force our views on each other

We've had cases of bakers saying they shouldn't serve gay people because it goes against their religion, but what of the freedom of equality for those gay people? this is where leftist show their ignorance. It's not just religion, is also property rights. No shirt, shoes, no service. That property is open to the public, but it's still their private property.

Here's another case with a reverse twist.

Usually what you see is if the religion is Christianity then the people who are going for freedom of equality are considered to be wrong by a large section of Christians.
However this is Islam. Will those who defended Christianity now be defending Islam? (I doubt it). christians won't saw off your head and post it on youtube either, but facts are ignored by morons

Swiss boys' refusals to shake female teacher's hand prompt $5,000 fine good thing we don't live there

"
After two Syrian boys in Switzerland asked to be excused from shaking a female teacher's hand because they said it violated their faith, their canton announced Wednesday that families of children who refuse to participate in the tradition that starts and ends the school day will be fined.

The fine will be up to $5,000, the Swiss canton said in a statement Wednesday.

"The public interest with respect to equality between men and women and the integration of foreigners significantly outweigh the freedom of conscience (freedom of religion) of the students," reads a translation of the statement, according to The Washington Post. "This differs from the wearing of a headscarf or absence of swimming lessons…. [T]he social gesture of the handshake is important for the employability of students later in their professional lives.""


leftist confuse equality with tyranny. They demand everyone accept everything everywhere.

I don't want you naked in my house, you better get dressed or get out.

In my current abode, you better bring a good guy with a machete(hope not!) Or accept no surrender.

so you have naked guys with machetes sitting around your house?

do they at least bring beer?

Geez. I'm survivalist. Im in a "Fastness".

and that is?

A defensible position.

In my English class, i also teach savage blows to the head. Wanna sign up, boy?

 

[BluesLegend]

Religion is based on faith. It quite possibly may not even be real. Gay, trans and other people are people that deserve protections under the law and are very real. You ask me.

These depraved freaks will never force society to accept them, pass all the laws you want.

Well, seeing as most people have accepted them, it would seem the depraved people are those who demand that others be treated badly simply for being born differently.

Get real most people have not accepted them, hell even uber liberal California voted to ban gay marriage. Ask your average mom if she would hire one of these freaks to baby sit her kids, well there you go.

 

[TemplarKormac]

In my English class, i also teach savage blows to the head. Wanna sign up, boy?

My head is too hard. No substance on Earth is harder than my head. You are welcome to try, though.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So, if equality and religion come head to head, which one should win? This is America, we shouldn't force our views on each other

We've had cases of bakers saying they shouldn't serve gay people because it goes against their religion, but what of the freedom of equality for those gay people? this is where leftist show their ignorance. It's not just religion, is also property rights. No shirt, shoes, no service. That property is open to the public, but it's still their private property.

Here's another case with a reverse twist.

Usually what you see is if the religion is Christianity then the people who are going for freedom of equality are considered to be wrong by a large section of Christians.
However this is Islam. Will those who defended Christianity now be defending Islam? (I doubt it). christians won't saw off your head and post it on youtube either, but facts are ignored by morons

Swiss boys' refusals to shake female teacher's hand prompt $5,000 fine good thing we don't live there

"
After two Syrian boys in Switzerland asked to be excused from shaking a female teacher's hand because they said it violated their faith, their canton announced Wednesday that families of children who refuse to participate in the tradition that starts and ends the school day will be fined.

The fine will be up to $5,000, the Swiss canton said in a statement Wednesday.

"The public interest with respect to equality between men and women and the integration of foreigners significantly outweigh the freedom of conscience (freedom of religion) of the students," reads a translation of the statement, according to The Washington Post. "This differs from the wearing of a headscarf or absence of swimming lessons…. [T]he social gesture of the handshake is important for the employability of students later in their professional lives.""


leftist confuse equality with tyranny. They demand everyone accept everything everywhere.

I don't want you naked in my house, you better get dressed or get out.

In my current abode, you better bring a good guy with a machete(hope not!) Or accept no surrender.

so you have naked guys with machetes sitting around your house?

do they at least bring beer?

Geez. I'm survivalist. Im in a "Fastness".

and that is?

A defensible position.

In my English class, i also teach savage blows to the head. Wanna sign up, boy?

Last guy to punch me in the head needed to have his hand to shoulder surgically repaired.

 

[The Great Goose]

Religion is based on faith. It quite possibly may not even be real. Gay, trans and other people are people that deserve protections under the law and are very real. You ask me.

These depraved freaks will never force society to accept them, pass all the laws you want.

Well, seeing as most people have accepted them, it would seem the depraved people are those who demand that others be treated badly simply for being born differently.

Get real most people have not accepted them, hell even uber liberal California voted to ban gay marriage. Ask your average mom if she would hire one of these freaks to baby sit her kids, well there you go.

Come aound o my way of thinkin

In my current abode, you better bring a good guy with a machete(hope not!) Or accept no surrender.

so you have naked guys with machetes sitting around your house?

do they at least bring beer?

Geez. I'm survivalist. Im in a "Fastness".

and that is?

A defensible position.

In my English class, i also teach savage blows to the head. Wanna sign up, boy?

Last guy to punch me in the head needed to have his hand to shoulder surgically repaired.

Many of my bones have repaired wrongly from hitting people and vehicles too hard.

I'm rough too, so dont assume.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I think that this question as a whole has come from a misunderstanding. I'll go ahead and break it down to make it easier to address your points.

So, if equality and religion come head to head, which one should win?

We've had cases of bakers saying they shouldn't serve gay people because it goes against their religion, but what of the freedom of equality for those gay people?

Firstly, any and all businesses are allowed to deny service to anyone for any reason. Most don't, as if they turn down service, that customer will go to their competitor. I see no problem here.

Here's another case with a reverse twist.

Usually what you see is if the religion is Christianity then the people who are going for freedom of equality are considered to be wrong by a large section of Christians.
However this is Islam. Will those who defended Christianity now be defending Islam? (I doubt it).

Swiss boys' refusals to shake female teacher's hand prompt $5,000 fine

"
After two Syrian boys in Switzerland asked to be excused from shaking a female teacher's hand because they said it violated their faith, their canton announced Wednesday that families of children who refuse to participate in the tradition that starts and ends the school day will be fined.

The fine will be up to $5,000, the Swiss canton said in a statement Wednesday.

Christianity is often misunderstood. There is nothing in the Bible that tells you to treat certain people differently from others, in fact, it tells you to love your neighbor, and then tells you everyone is your neighbor. However, our freedoms allow us to treat other people however we like, so long as we are not harming them or their property. The way I often explain this to people is that we have a freedom to be a bad person, and if the government attempts to stop that, we are having our freedoms taken away, and at that point, they are deciding which of even the most mundane actions are right or wrong, and forcing us to act as they think we should.

"The public interest with respect to equality between men and women and the integration of foreigners significantly outweigh the freedom of conscience (freedom of religion) of the students," reads a translation of the statement, according to The Washington Post. "This differs from the wearing of a headscarf or absence of swimming lessons…. [T]he social gesture of the handshake is important for the employability of students later in their professional lives.""

This isn't equality here. People are allowed to choose not to shake the hands of others. This is another case of even the most mundane actions being dictated by the government, and that's taking power too far. It's stomping all over freedom, and a step towards treating citizens as property, as the Soviet Union had. There is no point at which this is okay, and no excuse for it. Furthermore, if you're favoring the woman having her hand shaken, rather than their right to refuse, you're favoring one person's rights over another, which by definition is not equality.

No, there's no misunderstanding on my part.

No, businesses aren't allowed to deny service for any reason. If a black person walked into my shop and I said "no, I'm not servicing you, you're black" this is wrong, just as forcing them to go to the back of the bus or use separate areas is not allowed.

Why?

Because people have decided they don't want a society where people can be treated like that.

You say "as long as we're not harming them", I believe that by denying someone a service for how they were born is harming them. Just as punching someone in the face for the way they were born is harming them too.

The Swiss have decided that equality is an important part of Switzerland and they won't tolerate it when people start acting in a manner which puts Swiss women below anyone else.

Now, you're free to think that people can mistreat each other all they like, you can even desire a caste society, but most people don't.

 

[there4eyeM]

If 'Tim's Bakery' is owned by Christians and someone wanted a cake that said, 'Tim's Bakery says Allah is God', it might be a religious question. If someone wants a wedding cake with two characters of the same gender on it, that's not religion.
What often gets everyone so tied up is misuse of language.

 

[Igrok_]

That is the question! The future of the whole countries depends on it (without a joke).

 

[emilynghiem]

which level are you talking about?
they are both important, but depending on context, one depends on the other:

* on the public level of govt equal inclusion and neutrality is more important first, so that includes all beliefs and other freedoms equally as a result underneath that establishment of equality for all the people seeking religious freedom or equal free will/consent by their creeds.
* once you are inside the private level (under the public commitment to equal protections) then freedom of religion or free will is more important for EACH PERSON so that THEIR beliefs about "what they need for equal protection" is automatically included in their beliefs and free exercise. Individual beliefs come first, in order to define what is needed to fulfill the equal protection clause already committed to on the group level.

Example: for marriage equality
A. FIRST the govt should seek neutrality and include all beliefs equally or else keep away from policies if people can't agree what is neutral and equal
so on that level equal treatment is more important to protect all beliefs (including what people believe they need for equality)
B. then SECOND, within each group with different beliefs, they can sort out what they need for equal protection and exercise of their beliefs
so their beliefs/freedom of religion are more important on this level, because it determines what they need for equality

C. then, when the beliefs are not competing in conflict, but are fully protected and represented within their respective contexts,
the people can come together and work out solutions that CAN be implemented publicly in a way that is equal.
Then where there is AGREEMENT between A and B, we can have BOTH

So, if equality and religion come head to head, which one should win?

We've had cases of bakers saying they shouldn't serve gay people because it goes against their religion, but what of the freedom of equality for those gay people?

Here's another case with a reverse twist.

Usually what you see is if the religion is Christianity then the people who are going for freedom of equality are considered to be wrong by a large section of Christians.
However this is Islam. Will those who defended Christianity now be defending Islam? (I doubt it).

Swiss boys' refusals to shake female teacher's hand prompt $5,000 fine

"
After two Syrian boys in Switzerland asked to be excused from shaking a female teacher's hand because they said it violated their faith, their canton announced Wednesday that families of children who refuse to participate in the tradition that starts and ends the school day will be fined.

The fine will be up to $5,000, the Swiss canton said in a statement Wednesday.

"The public interest with respect to equality between men and women and the integration of foreigners significantly outweigh the freedom of conscience (freedom of religion) of the students," reads a translation of the statement, according to The Washington Post. "This differs from the wearing of a headscarf or absence of swimming lessons…. [T]he social gesture of the handshake is important for the employability of students later in their professional lives.""