White man shoots innocent black teen....

[bigrebnc1775]

THEY WERE JUST 2 WHITE PEOPLE ( NOT NEWS WORTHY ) + DIDN`T LOOK LIKE OBAMAS SON MIGHT HAVE

James Kouzaris and James Cooper's friends criticise Obama for lack of compassion | Mail Online

No they were the little boy walking his dog was black and only the police and the report know the race of John the person who did not want to be shown on TV. But he did sound like he was white.

 

[Emma]

EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?

There you are.

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.

 

[Emma]

Never said that.

But for someone who was "barely conscious" and couldn't remember anything past moving his head onto the grass (now isn't THAT convenient??), within the hour he was moving fluidly and steadily without any assistance out of the car and into the building. With his hands cuffed behind his back. Not to mention that the paramedics cleared him on scene, with no need for further evaluation. Don't try to tell me that EMS is going to do that with someone who had been "barely conscious", amnesiac, and moments away from a life of incontinence and total custodial care.

Hell, he was standing, coherent and cooperative and --- what luck! --- remembering everything a minute later when the first officer arrived.

George's brother is full of shit.

I've been knocked unconscious.... and I was able to walk minutes later. I also lost 4 months memory at the time. The EMTs who attended... they cleared me too.... fortunately, I had a brother who recognized the signs of concussion later.

So, yea.... EMTs may have cleared him.

Personally, I think some people are desperately flailing around looking for rope to hang Zimmerman. I prefer the due process that this country used to value..... before the days of trial by media, followed by an American Idol 'vote' guilty or innocent.

Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.

But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?

Paramedic(s) were there.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

ZIMMERMAN’S MEDICAL RECORDS.

Zimmerman’s medical records may show a broken nose but cannot show “when, where or how” he got the broken nose. He did not go into ER until the “next day” for medical attention. Any thing could have happen between the time of the incident and the time he entered ER.

“Desperate times call for desperate measures”
Sir Walter Scott,

In an interview with WOFL, the Fox station in Orlando, Zimmerman's father says the neighborhood watch volunteer deemed Martin suspicious because he was walking in the rain between townhouses, instead of on the street or the sidewalk. He adds that Zimmerman kept following Martin after the police dispatcher suggested that he stop because he wanted to get an address from one of the houses so he would know where exactly he was in the development.
Did Police and Paramedics Conspire to Invent George Zimmerman's Injuries? - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine



So, police at the scene of the murder and Sanford Fire Department Rescue 38 thought George's injuries did not require him be put in an ambulance for treatment, rather, his injuries only required first aid in the back seat of a cop car and then "cleared" him for any: concussion, swelling or bleeding of the brain, whiplash, broken nose and no bandage to cover alleged open head wound.
Daily Kos: Zimmerman Received First Aid in the Back Seat of a Police Car & Not Ambulance - that makes no sense

I don't think they could have 'cleared' a broken nose. That would have to be determined by xray. When I read 'cleared', I took it to mean that either the injuries were not deemed severe enough to warrant an ED evaluation OR Zimmerman refused treatment --- although Bigreb indicated that the officers would have taken him in if the paramedics said to.

As far as him being in the police car, that isn't an issue IMO ... they don't need to be in the ambulance to treat him. There was only one ambulance on scene and I would suspect Martin had already been placed there.

I do think it's interesting that Zimmerman's father first told the media George didn't follow ... now he's saying his son DID follow Martin.

Maddening.

Well allow me to make a clarification. Here in North Carolina if you are taken into custody and require medical attention even if you say I don't need medical attention you will be taken to the hospital. Florida might be different but I can't see that happening because of liability issues. But I was surprised to find out EMT's could declare a person dead.

 

[Emma]

Interestingly enough, there were no EMT's, and Zimmerman was treated by the police in the back of the car.

But..........if Zimmerman was beaten as badly as claimed, why weren't EMTs called to the scene?

That's simply not true. Zimmerman was treated by SFD in the back of the police car.

That is according to the report by Ofc. Timothy Smith and others of the SPD.

There's a lot of things in that report that are being seriously questioned, especially in light of seeing the tape of Zimmerman in the station, as well as now we're being shown the area where Zimmerman shot Martin.

By the way, did you notice any blood on his LIGHT GREY ALMOST WHITE T SHIRT? There was also no noticeable blood on his jacket, nor were there grass stains on the back of his jacket.

Me personally? I think they took Zimmerman to the station, he called his father the retired judge, and they concocted a story that they thought would hold up.

Even other cops who have been interviewed about their police work said it was shoddy.

Something else in that article that mentioned the time stamp ... one (or more?) witnesses said that a man in a white t shirt was on top of the other. Neither was wearing a white T shirt BUT if Zimmerman didn't have on his jacket at the time, it may have appeared he was wearing a white shirt. AND ... his gun would have been visible to Martin.

Was Zimmerman wearing his jacket during the fight? The police report says it had grass on the back, so he probably did. There is no grass on his back visible in the video, but from that distance it would be hard to say one way or the other. It might have rubbed off getting in and out of the car, and while riding.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?

There you are.

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.

My only gripe is people using evidence that was not collected or used by to police to show guilty or innocence of Zimmerman

 

[paperview]

EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?

There you are.

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.

Yup, I posted that a few days ago.

Timelines: Important.
================

There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the police to get to the station (6.2 miles) (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy, get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc:

TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm

TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ------> 7:17pm

TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ------> 7:52PM

That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean to the PD.

 

[Emma]

You think they paid the witnesses to make corroborating statements, too?

Not paid, just encouraged them along a certain line of questioning and kept the ones that supported Zimmerman while ignoring others who supported Martin.

So, this is all a grand conspiracy without any foundation to believe it is other than the fact that Zimmerman's father is a retired magistrate.

Well, even magistrate's offspring are allowed equal treatment under the law.

Conspiracy. That's a new approach. And, it's often the approach of those whose minds are convinced one way, yet the facts contradict that idea. 911ers, birthers, moon landers, etc. - all the same.

I'm not so sure his father being a retired VA magistrate is significant, other than he'd know the system and be able to advise his son. Not to offend anyone here, but magistrates here are pretty low on the judicial ladder.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yes thanks, that map is great. The notation where 2821 is (or is it 2831? I didn't want to copy the long post over) really helps, too. I had tried to find an aerial view the other day without much luck. There is a new tape out with the EMS / dispatchers talking about the location as behind that address.

The map would not be allowed in court as evidence, unless it was what was used by the police. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? You are try to show guilt or innocence of a person with evidence not used by the police. You might as well add Zimmerman had help from other people holding Trayvon down while he held the gun to Trayvons head. Might as well add that in the evidence.

There can be a "razor thin" line on STAND YOUR GROUND, it appears:

A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com

Yes I see where that is going

Partly as a result, the Martin case — involving a black teenager and man described as white or Hispanic — has unleashed a roaring national dialogue on racial profiling and prejudice. In the Seay case, the fighters were all black.

 

[Emma]

EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?

There you are.

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.

Yup, I posted that a few days ago.

Timelines: Important.
================

There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the police to get to the station (6.2 miles) (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy, get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.

TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm

TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ------> 7:17pm

TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ------> 7:52PM

That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean to the PD.

I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too.

The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were dispatched at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.

 

[Peach]

The map would not be allowed in court as evidence, unless it was what was used by the police. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? You are try to show guilt or innocence of a person with evidence not used by the police. You might as well add Zimmerman had help from other people holding Trayvon down while he held the gun to Trayvons head. Might as well add that in the evidence.

There can be a "razor thin" line on STAND YOUR GROUND, it appears:

A fine line keeps Jacksonville teen jailed despite 'Stand Your Ground' law | jacksonville.com

Yes I see where that is going

Partly as a result, the Martin case — involving a black teenager and man described as white or Hispanic — has unleashed a roaring national dialogue on racial profiling and prejudice. In the Seay case, the fighters were all black.

Seay could not use STAND YOUR GROUND though HE was attacked; why Zimmerman?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

EXACTLY. There are some taking evidence that was obtained by the police and trying to show Zimmerman is guilty. Wouldn't you agree that's bad form?

There you are.

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.

Yup, I posted that a few days ago.

Timelines: Important.
================

There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the police to get to the station (6.2 miles) (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy, get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc:

TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm

TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ------> 7:17pm

TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ------> 7:52PM

That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean to the PD.

You are using other evidence not collected by the police but an unvetted outside source.

 

[Emma]

Oh ... as far as CPR? It wasn't started until the second officer arrived. It isn't clear what time that was, but it would have to be after 1920. Martin was pronounced at 1930. He was given less than 10 minutes of CPR, and the way the report reads, the paramedic pronounced him almost immediately upon arriving on scene.

 

[paperview]

There you are.

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.

Yup, I posted that a few days ago.

Timelines: Important.
================

There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the police to get to the station (6.2 miles) (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy, get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.

TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm

TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ------> 7:17pm

TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ------> 7:52PM

That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean to the PD.

I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too.

The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were dispatched at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.

No. They were there at 7:17.

Certain.

(I'll dig up an older post of mine...)

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There you are.

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.

Yup, I posted that a few days ago.

Timelines: Important.
================

There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the police to get to the station (6.2 miles) (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy, get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.

TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm

TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ------> 7:17pm

TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ------> 7:52PM

That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean to the PD.

I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too.

The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were dispatched at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.

Let's retrace who has the link were this timeline came from? And the link better fucking be from Sanford PD.

 

[paperview]

Here Emm. I posted this a week ago:

From the moment he hung up the phone (7:14) to the time the police arrived (7:17). 3 minutes.

Zimmerman's call ended 7:14 p.m.
The first witness 911 call comes in at 7:16:11 p.m.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

Facts.
The call at 7:16:11 p.m is the one where in the background you can hear the struggle and then the sound of the pistol being fired.

At 7:17 p.m. the calls to 911 flood in with residents hearing gunshots.

"Records show Zimmerman's first call to authorities was at 7:09:34 p.m., followed by seven witness calls at 7:16:11, 7:16:41, 7:17:06, 7:17:15, 7:17:54, 7:18:00 and 704."

Lawyer: Trayvon Martin's girlfriend heard altercation | News - Home

The first Sanford police units arrive at that 7:17 mark.

Timeline. It matters.

THREE MINUTES FROM THE TIME ZIMMERMAN HUNG UP THE PHONE TO THE TIME THE POLICE ARRIVED.

 

[Emma]

Yes I see where that is going

Something I question was if Trayvon saw the gun, or felt threatened by Zimmerman's actions. If that's the case, then under that law was Martin entitled to use force? It would certainly seem so. Then once he went on the offensive hitting Zimmerman, did the law suddenly switch to cover Zimmerman's actions? That's what's so crazy about this law, IMO.

Chicken, egg ...

We're never going to know what really happened.

 

[Emma]

There you are.

You were asking about when Zimmerman arrived at the station (and in that video?)

The time stamp on the video was 1952, so within 35 minutes after police arrived on scene. I read that last night on my break ... I think that was on either the Orlando Sentinel or Miami Herald site. I'll see if I can hunt that down again.

Yup, I posted that a few days ago.

Timelines: Important.
================

There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the police to get to the station (6.2 miles) (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy, get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc:

TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm

TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ------> 7:17pm

TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ------> 7:52PM

That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean to the PD.

You are using other evidence not collected by the police but an unvetted outside source.

No she isn't, unless you consider the police tapes and report to be 'an unvetted outside source'.

 

[Emma]

Yup, I posted that a few days ago.

Timelines: Important.
================

There were only a couple minutes the EMT's could have treated him...I've done the timeline, figured out how long it would take the police to get to the station (6.2 miles) (that's about a 10, 14 min ride) ... then, approx. time for police to apprise the situation, tend to the dead boy, get Zimm's statements, handcuff Zimm, etc: Not much.

TIME THE BULLET WAS FIRED: ------> 7:16pm

TIME POLICE ARRIVED: ------> 7:17pm

TIME ZIMMERMAN ARRIVED AT POLICE STATION: ------> 7:52PM

That's just a little over a half an hour from the time the boy took his last breath to when Zimm man was carted all jauntily, bloodlessly clean to the PD.

I was surprised that they got him there that fast, too.

The one question I have is the 7:17 arrival time at the scene. The police report says they were dispatched at that time, and the log of Zimmerman's 911 calls (this one being his last) seems to indicate that Smith arrived at 1920:54.

Let's retrace who has the link were this timeline came from? And the link better fucking be from Sanford PD.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

City of Sanford Florida

Zimmerman's call history

 

[Emma]

Here Emm. I posted this a week ago:

From the moment he hung up the phone (7:14) to the time the police arrived (7:17). 3 minutes.

Zimmerman's call ended 7:14 p.m.
The first witness 911 call comes in at 7:16:11 p.m.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

Facts.
The call at 7:16:11 p.m is the one where in the background you can hear the struggle and then the sound of the pistol being fired.

At 7:17 p.m. the calls to 911 flood in with residents hearing gunshots.

"Records show Zimmerman's first call to authorities was at 7:09:34 p.m., followed by seven witness calls at 7:16:11, 7:16:41, 7:17:06, 7:17:15, 7:17:54, 7:18:00 and 704."

Lawyer: Trayvon Martin's girlfriend heard altercation | News - Home

The first Sanford police units arrive at that 7:17 mark.

Timeline. It matters.

THREE MINUTES FROM THE TIME ZIMMERMAN HUNG UP THE PHONE TO THE TIME THE POLICE ARRIVED.

Thank you so much. I was a bit confused by what he meant by 'dispatched', thinking that is when the officer received the call. This makes sense, as it was reported that police arrived within a minute or two of the shot. AND the later 911 callers were told that police were on scene. (IIRC, some said they saw the officers there)