Who here is an atheist?

[cnm]

I was a mere tot when I decided I didn't want to just hear stories about how God entered the lives of people long ago. I wanted to find God in my own life. To my astonishment, people around me were of the mind that God didn't work like that any more--and probably never had in the lives of average, every day people. I kept in mind the instructions one had to knock, ask, seek--and to be persistent and diligent in this endeavor. This (in my experience) was not something one did steadily for days, weeks, months--but for years, even decades.

That's interesting in light of Dink's assertions of the revealed religion of an (assumed) omnipotent god.

 

[Meriweather]

That's interesting in light of Dink's assertions of the revealed religion of an (assumed) omnipotent god.

"Revealed" is a good word to describe God in Judaism and Christianity. "Observed" may be another apt description. Jesus' words to Thomas remain close to my heart: "You believe because you have seen. Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe." I no longer have that blessing--and for those who have not seen, yet believe should treasure that blessing a thousand times more greatly than they may already do.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Once you realized God did work that way in our lives, He worked that way in your life. No?

Point is: you may mold your reason to your faith, but you also mold your faith to your reason. I think religion is "in the way that you use it". But who is to say who is correct? It cannot be known. I'm glad it works for you.

Anything that can be used correctly, can be used incorrectly. Every correct answer has an incorrect one. This is not difficult to figure out.

But you can never tell which. The pitfall of magical thinking.

 

[Meriweather]

But you can never tell which. The pitfall of magical thinking.

It is philosophical thinking to those of us who take faith seriously. Your dismissing it as "magical thinking" very much reminds me of math students who argue math will never matter in their adult life. Math not mattering in some lives in very different from math not mattering. The same is true with faith. It does not matter to you individually, but that is a far different prospect from faith/religious beliefs not mattering.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But you can never tell which. The pitfall of magical thinking.

It is philosophical thinking to those of us who take faith seriously. Your dismissing it as "magical thinking" very much reminds me of math students who argue math will never matter in their adult life. Math not mattering in some lives in very different from math not mattering. The same is true with faith. It does not matter to you individually, but that is a far different prospect from faith/religious beliefs not mattering.

Faith is magical thinking. Period. You don't like my choice of words because you like faith. Period. I believe faith does not deserve respect.

 

[Meriweather]

Faith is magical thinking. Period. You don't like my choice of words because you like faith. Period. I believe faith does not deserve respect.

Along with math and science, I often teach English as well, so I tend to be precise and a bit nit-picky about use of words. I understand philosophy and its make-up. I also understand magic and its make-up. These are two different topics. When you say, "Faith does not deserve respect" am I to understand you are saying, "Magic does not deserve respect"?

Keep in mind you are giving the impression you do not understand the differences between philosophy and a magic show.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Oh, stop. Believing magical, supernatural things like gods, miracles, resurrection... this is not philosophy, it is magical thinking. And it is faith.

 

[Dr Grump]

So. Big Bang.

What caused the "Big Bang"?

Did the Big Bang bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

And what existed before God (BTW, there is no God, mine is a philosophical argument)...

 

[Meriweather]

Oh, stop. Believing magical, supernatural things like gods, miracles, resurrection... this is not philosophy, it is magical thinking. And it is faith.

Tell a magician that and learn from his response then.

 

[Meriweather]

And what existed before God (BTW, there is no God, mine is a philosophical argument)...

Religious belief is that God (as Spirit) always existed. Some propose physical matter may always have existed as well. Could this be true of both? Or, if (theoretically) it can only be true of one, which do you see as more plausible? Spirit coming from matter, or Spirit producing matter?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Oh, stop. Believing magical, supernatural things like gods, miracles, resurrection... this is not philosophy, it is magical thinking. And it is faith.

Tell a magician that and learn from his response then.

The magician would probably be more intellectually honest than you are being right now and recognize the difference between my use of the word and the illusionism he performs.

 

[Dr Grump]

And what existed before God (BTW, there is no God, mine is a philosophical argument)...

Religious belief is that God (as Spirit) always existed. Some propose physical matter may always have existed as well. Could this be true of both? Or, if (theoretically) it can only be true of one, which do you see as more plausible? Spirit coming from matter, or Spirit producing matter?

I do have an issue that something had to come from somewhere - whether that be a god or the big bang. BOth have issues. I just believe the science over the fairytale.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And what existed before God (BTW, there is no God, mine is a philosophical argument)...

Religious belief is that God (as Spirit) always existed. Some propose physical matter may always have existed as well. Could this be true of both? Or, if (theoretically) it can only be true of one, which do you see as more plausible? Spirit coming from matter, or Spirit producing matter?

Clearly, considering determinism, it is more plausible that spirit came from matter.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

So. Big Bang.

What caused the "Big Bang"?

Did the Big Bang bring existence into existence? Or did something exist before that?

If so, how?

And what existed before God

God is the state of existence. God is the intelligent essence of eternity and creation.

Nothing happens just because. Such belief is illogical.

 

[Meriweather]

The magician would probably be more intellectually honest than you are being right now and recognize the difference between my use of the word and the illusionism he performs.

Sorry. Intellectually, the stronger position goes along with using actual definitions. Those who are ill-informed are unable to support their position intelligently and tend resort to using demeaning terminology--which is boring. So, perhaps we should each find someone more suitable with whom to discuss this topic.

 

[Meriweather]

I do have an issue that something had to come from somewhere - whether that be a god or the big bang. BOth have issues. I just believe the science over the fairytale.

I am not interested in having a discussion at the level of "fairy tales" so I will be moving on.

 

[task0778]

And what existed before God (BTW, there is no God, mine is a philosophical argument)...

Religious belief is that God (as Spirit) always existed. Some propose physical matter may always have existed as well. Could this be true of both? Or, if (theoretically) it can only be true of one, which do you see as more plausible? Spirit coming from matter, or Spirit producing matter?

It seems to me that whichever came first had to be from a supernatural force or energy of some kind that we cannot define. Ergo, spirit (that supernatural force/energy) produced matter first, who, how, or why is unknown.

 

[Meriweather]

It seems to me that whichever came first had to be from a supernatural force or energy of some kind that we cannot define. Ergo, spirit (that supernatural force/energy) produced matter first, who, how, or why is unknown.

I tend to agree with your assessment. To me it is more logical that if one or the other existed first, it is more likely spirit created matter, than matter produced spirit.

 

[sealybobo]

And what existed before God (BTW, there is no God, mine is a philosophical argument)...

Religious belief is that God (as Spirit) always existed. Some propose physical matter may always have existed as well. Could this be true of both? Or, if (theoretically) it can only be true of one, which do you see as more plausible? Spirit coming from matter, or Spirit producing matter?

It seems to me that whichever came first had to be from a supernatural force or energy of some kind that we cannot define. Ergo, spirit (that supernatural force/energy) produced matter first, who, how, or why is unknown.

Not supernatural just natural. Anything you see in the universe would seem super. And amazing and awe inspiring but natural none the less.

We will never know if there is a god or multiverse. The god hypothesis is ancient superstition. It’s an answer to whatever you don’t know. It’s wishful thinking and it’s keeping humanity down.

Think about how smart young kids are. You tell them the Big Bang started this universe because god did it. And it’s the only universe. Don’t even think about multiverse because it’s unknowable. Instead believe in god why?

 

[sealybobo]

Who here is an atheist? It seems to me my belief in god is unfounded and without proof. I know that the universe was created by the big bang and the processes of science. Why on earth do I cling to 2,000 year old sheep herders writing?

This writing promotes hatred, idiocy and backwardness. I am so very close to just saying fuck it and becoming a atheist!!!

What I've read in the bible should never be read to a child as it is fucking savage stoneaged crap. And you fuckers bitch about sex ed??? really? The bible encourages rape, murder of babies and rape of women. On and on. Incest is in the bible with lott fucking his daughters, murder of ones brother and genocide of millions of people.

I think telling our children the god hypothesis is a fact is keeping us held back. Imagine telling our children the truth we don’t know. Imagine all those young minds now instead of settling on a lie now searching for the answers.