Who is opposed to a border fence and why?

[debbiedowner]

Setting aside the disingenuous arguments about its cost and effectiveness, why are you opposed to a physical barrier to illegal immigration across our southern border? Please spare me the histrionics and tell me why we should not maintain our territorial integrity (like every other country in the world).

Where there's a will there's a way. It won't matter the ones that want to come will get here. Take some of the money and put into more drones and border patrol. The initial cost is one thing, the cost to maintain over the years will far exceed the cost to build. I don't see it as a detriment. Plus a good majority of undocumented aliens are here that have over stayed their visas and now lost in they system.

 

[debbiedowner]

Setting aside the disingenuous arguments about its cost and effectiveness, why are you opposed to a physical barrier to illegal immigration across our southern border? Please spare me the histrionics and tell me why we should not maintain our territorial integrity (like every other country in the world).

Because the bulk of illegal immigrants are people who overstayed their visas. Visas like the ones Trump uses to import foreign workers to work at his domestic resorts. A wall won't stop that. It's just a waste of time, money, and resources. Illegal border crossing apprehensions have dropped to a 17-year low, even as we've added 10,000 more Border Patrol Agents over the last few years.

How about instead of spending $20B to build a stupid wall, we take that $20B and instead spend it on health care for people who actually need it?

False. Under the purple lipped jug head, who told the BP to stand down, they came across the border like flies.

If you know that is 100% correct where I can I find that info?

 

[miketx]

Setting aside the disingenuous arguments about its cost and effectiveness, why are you opposed to a physical barrier to illegal immigration across our southern border? Please spare me the histrionics and tell me why we should not maintain our territorial integrity (like every other country in the world).

Because the bulk of illegal immigrants are people who overstayed their visas. Visas like the ones Trump uses to import foreign workers to work at his domestic resorts. A wall won't stop that. It's just a waste of time, money, and resources. Illegal border crossing apprehensions have dropped to a 17-year low, even as we've added 10,000 more Border Patrol Agents over the last few years.

How about instead of spending $20B to build a stupid wall, we take that $20B and instead spend it on health care for people who actually need it?

False. Under the purple lipped jug head, who told the BP to stand down, they came across the border like flies.

If you know that is 100% correct where I can I find that info?

Beats me. I rarely post any links because it's a waste of time trying to prove anything to liberal traitors.

 

[The Derp]

#1 - Never said it was the reason "most" illegal aliens come here. But it is a factor, and then their is the tourism citizenship trade where well to do foreign nationals come to the US for a "vacation" and stay through a birth.

So what's the problem with that? If someone is born here to illegal immigrants, they are still a citizen. They are still in the system. They are still paying taxes. I don't understand what the problem with this is. The only thing I keep coming back to is that some folks don't want babies of color born in this country because they think it will somehow dilute their white identity. Let me be the first to tell you; there is no such thing as white identity. It doesn't matter what color you are, you're still an American. So this anti-birthright thing is being motivated not by justice, but by racial resentment.

#2 - Employers (whether companies or individuals hiring nannies or gardeners) are a huge part of the problem. People come here to seek a better life, part of the is the idea of finding a job.

Right, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people like Trump who import foreign workers simply because they don't want to pay them as well or treat them as well as American workers. There's no other reason. And if people are risking life and limb in order to get here, what does that say about their ethics? I'd say they're pretty strong, wouldn't you?

#3 - I agree that children are victims, their parents shouldn't have brought them here to begin with. They should return home with the parents and let their country of origin pay for schooling. If a child is a citizen of the US (see #1) the parents have a choice (a) take the child with them, (b) turn the child over to responsible relatives to remain, (c) give up the child for adoption.

Ugh...so, this is in contrast to what you just said above about how "[P]eople come here to seek a better life". Would that not extend to seeking a better life for their kids too? So these people make the thousands-of-miles journey through the worst of Central America all to make sure their children have better lives. So why do you want to punish the children for their parents' determination to make their lives better? I don't get it. It just seems like posturing. And it doesn't fucking work. Think about from where these people are coming...El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, even Mexico...these are not nations known for stability and opportunity. And your penalty for those parents is cruelty and nothing more. I mean one of your solutions is to literally break apart a family. What does that accomplish, exactly?

#4 - Significantly reduces the burden on the US taxpayer.

Well, you could cut spending anywhere and it would have the same effect. Cut military spending, and you significantly reduce the burden on the US taxpayer. The thing you've made clear is that you don't prioritize life above stupid things like walls. That is an indictment of you, not of illegal immigrants. So don't pretend as if cancelling benefits to illegal immigrants will somehow reduce a burden on you as a taxpayer. It won't. It never has.

#5 - If they have been granted asylum then they are not here illegally.

First of all, there's a long process in place before anyone is granted amnesty. So people who come here seeking amnesty come here illegally. They turn themselves into BP, then wind their way through the amnesty process and the courts. So they are not defacto legal migrants seeking asylum. They start off in the system as criminals, then it's on them to prove they're not. Isn't that backwards? Shouldn't our judicial system work the opposite way?

#5 applies if they entered the country illegally. If of course they are in custody, then medical treatment should be denied.

So someone who came here illegally, seeking asylum should be denied health care? Why? That makes no sense.

 

[debbiedowner]

Fence? I don't want no stinkin fence. I want a wall. A big beautiful wall. And tall. I want a 30 foot tall wall. Not just that but a smart wall too. Smart enough to know when those drug smuggling criminal Mexicans come sneaking up with a 31 foot ladder it will grow another foot or two. But mostly I want a wall we don't have to pay for. Fence indeed.

I think Trump thinks this is the kind of wall that will stop illegal immigrants...even though it didn't even work for Westeros. And the illegal immigrants (White Walkers) are probably just going to walk around that shit anyway once they freeze the water by Eastwatch:

That's why I want a smart mote before and after the wall.

Hell, you wouldn't need the wall with a moat stocked with gators. Probably cheaper all the way around.

 

[debbiedowner]

The border fence will pay for itself and turn a huge profit within 10 years, while raising wages for the poor, lowering unemployment, lowering welfare costs to the state. Yes it will destroy the Democratic party so there will be some fall out.

What? They gona charge a toll for that wall? Who gets to divided the profits?

 

[The Derp]

Because, if they make it across the border, they go to CHICAGO, LA, or another big liberal city that is SANCTUARY. The libs then claim they won't turn them in, so they collect benefits at the least.......or send their kids to school draining out education system that the left claims needs more money.

What do you fucking care since those cities are the ones who pay for it anyway? You're not paying for it. In fact, if you live in a red state, chances are your state is a TAKER state, TAKING revenues from those MAKER blue states and cities. So if we are all done paying for welfare for people who don't deserve it, then let's cut off the gravy train to red states that TAKE more than they CONTRIBUTE. Those TAKER states subsidize their low tax rates with the revenue they get from those MAKER states and cities. Not the other way around.

 

[The Derp]

Beats me. I rarely post any links because it's a waste of time trying to prove anything to liberal traitors.

You just made that shit up, didn't you? Be honest.

 

[miketx]

Beats me. I rarely post any links because it's a waste of time trying to prove anything to liberal traitors.

You just made that shit up, didn't you? Be honest.

You saying I'm a liberal?

 

[debbiedowner]

Setting aside the disingenuous arguments about its cost and effectiveness, why are you opposed to a physical barrier to illegal immigration across our southern border? Please spare me the histrionics and tell me why we should not maintain our territorial integrity (like every other country in the world).

Because the bulk of illegal immigrants are people who overstayed their visas. Visas like the ones Trump uses to import foreign workers to work at his domestic resorts. A wall won't stop that. It's just a waste of time, money, and resources. Illegal border crossing apprehensions have dropped to a 17-year low, even as we've added 10,000 more Border Patrol Agents over the last few years.

How about instead of spending $20B to build a stupid wall, we take that $20B and instead spend it on health care for people who actually need it?

False. Under the purple lipped jug head, who told the BP to stand down, they came across the border like flies.

If you know that is 100% correct where I can I find that info?

Beats me. I rarely post any links because it's a waste of time trying to prove anything to liberal traitors.

Then you should not make a blanket statement unless you can prove it or even participate in life for that matter.

 

[debbiedowner]

Beats me. I rarely post any links because it's a waste of time trying to prove anything to liberal traitors.

You just made that shit up, didn't you? Be honest.

You saying I'm a liberal?

Must be, you say libs can't prove anything and apparently you can't either.

 

[The Derp]

Illegals are at an all time low due to the threat of consequences.

Well that's strange because all I hear from Conservatives is that illegal immigration is so bad, we have to literally build a fucking wall.

So which is it? Is illegal immigration a major problem that requires a $20B wall and 5,000 more BP agents, or is it at an all time low rendering the $20B wall and 5,000 BP agents moot?

Choose a position, please.

 

[WorldWatcher]

#1 - Never said it was the reason "most" illegal aliens come here. But it is a factor, and then their is the tourism citizenship trade where well to do foreign nationals come to the US for a "vacation" and stay through a birth.

So what's the problem with that? If someone is born here to illegal immigrants, they are still a citizen. They are still in the system. They are still paying taxes. I don't understand what the problem with this is. The only thing I keep coming back to is that some folks don't want babies of color born in this country because they think it will somehow dilute their white identity. Let me be the first to tell you; there is no such thing as white identity. It doesn't matter what color you are, you're still an American. So this anti-birthright thing is being motivated not by justice, but by racial resentment.

#2 - Employers (whether companies or individuals hiring nannies or gardeners) are a huge part of the problem. People come here to seek a better life, part of the is the idea of finding a job.

Right, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people like Trump who import foreign workers simply because they don't want to pay them as well or treat them as well as American workers. There's no other reason. And if people are risking life and limb in order to get here, what does that say about their ethics? I'd say they're pretty strong, wouldn't you?

#3 - I agree that children are victims, their parents shouldn't have brought them here to begin with. They should return home with the parents and let their country of origin pay for schooling. If a child is a citizen of the US (see #1) the parents have a choice (a) take the child with them, (b) turn the child over to responsible relatives to remain, (c) give up the child for adoption.

Ugh...so, this is in contrast to what you just said above about how "[P]eople come here to seek a better life". Would that not extend to seeking a better life for their kids too? So these people make the thousands-of-miles journey through the worst of Central America all to make sure their children have better lives. So why do you want to punish the children for their parents' determination to make their lives better? I don't get it. It just seems like posturing. And it doesn't fucking work. Think about from where these people are coming...El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, even Mexico...these are not nations known for stability and opportunity. And your penalty for those parents is cruelty and nothing more. I mean one of your solutions is to literally break apart a family. What does that accomplish, exactly?

#4 - Significantly reduces the burden on the US taxpayer.

Well, you could cut spending anywhere and it would have the same effect. Cut military spending, and you significantly reduce the burden on the US taxpayer. The thing you've made clear is that you don't prioritize life above stupid things like walls. That is an indictment of you, not of illegal immigrants. So don't pretend as if cancelling benefits to illegal immigrants will somehow reduce a burden on you as a taxpayer. It won't. It never has.

#5 - If they have been granted asylum then they are not here illegally.

First of all, there's a long process in place before anyone is granted amnesty. So people who come here seeking amnesty come here illegally. They turn themselves into BP, then wind their way through the amnesty process and the courts. So they are not defacto legal migrants seeking asylum. They start off in the system as criminals, then it's on them to prove they're not. Isn't that backwards? Shouldn't our judicial system work the opposite way?

#5 applies if they entered the country illegally. If of course they are in custody, then medical treatment should be denied.

So someone who came here illegally, seeking asylum should be denied health care? Why? That makes no sense.

#1 - It has nothing to do with race or "white identify", it's removing birthright citizenship if you are here illegally. It doesn't do anything to those that are already citizens.

#2 - It is what I'm talking about.

#3 - If they bring their kids with them sure. But entering the country illegally to obtain citizenship by giving birth here should be allowed. If you are here legally? Sure. If you are here illegally children should be citizens of the country of their parents.

#4 - Go back and try again, I don't support building a 25 BILLION dollar wall and then spending millions every year after that to patrol and maintain it. Some walls near highly populated areas? Sure. But the biggest impact on reducing illegal alien presence in this country will occur by removing the motivations for them to come to begin with.

#5 - Nope that is not what I said. I said if they were in custody they would get health care while being processed. Anyone in custody should be treated if they have a medical condition and are being held by the government. If they sought asylum and came here legally, they would be in the same boat as everyone else.


>>>>

 

[The Derp]

#1 - It has nothing to do with race or "white identify", it's removing birthright citizenship if you are here illegally. It doesn't do anything to those that are already citizens.

Of course it has to do with race! That's the basis of all opposition to any kind of immigration. Those who oppose immigrants do so out of identity politics and bigotry. They perceive immigrants as "less than"...so add supremacy to white racial resentment.

#3 - If they bring their kids with them sure. But entering the country illegally to obtain citizenship by giving birth here should be allowed. If you are here legally? Sure. If you are here illegally children should be citizens of the country of their parents.

Well, that's unconstitutional. So maybe think of a different solution that doesn't violate the 14th Amendment? What about making them citizens instead? That way, they are on the books, they pay taxes, and they have an incentive to contribute to American society. By keeping them in the shadows and posturing toughness, you're not solving any issue. You're just making it worse.

#4 - Go back and try again, I don't support building a 25 BILLION dollar wall and then spending millions every year after that to patrol and maintain it. Some walls near highly populated areas? Sure. But the biggest impact on reducing illegal alien presence in this country will occur by removing the motivations for them to come to begin with.

WTF??? Oy vey...you said yourself the motivation was "[P]eople come here to seek a better life". So how do you remove that motivation while still maintaining our land of opportunity? You get that your argument is rife with cognitive dissonance, right?

And what does that accomplish? Nothing. It might make you feel better about yourself, but this isn't about you. Get over yourself.

#5 - Nope that is not what I said. I said if they were in custody they would get health care while being processed. Anyone in custody should be treated if they have a medical condition and are being held by the government. If they sought asylum and came here legally, they would be in the same boat as everyone else.

OK, apologies then. I misunderstood what you wrote.

 

[imawhosure]

Because, if they make it across the border, they go to CHICAGO, LA, or another big liberal city that is SANCTUARY. The libs then claim they won't turn them in, so they collect benefits at the least.......or send their kids to school draining out education system that the left claims needs more money.

What do you fucking care since those cities are the ones who pay for it anyway? You're not paying for it. In fact, if you live in a red state, chances are your state is a TAKER state, TAKING revenues from those MAKER blue states and cities. So if we are all done paying for welfare for people who don't deserve it, then let's cut off the gravy train to red states that TAKE more than they CONTRIBUTE. Those TAKER states subsidize their low tax rates with the revenue they get from those MAKER states and cities. Not the other way around.

1. You are lying through your teeth, because most of those states have large military facilities............but let us take your word as gospel, sooooooo------>

2. You would rather give your money to NON-CITIZENS? Non-Americans? You are a patriot!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! And you want us that have money to finance healthcare?

ANSWER---------> GO FU** yourself! You would rather give money to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS instead of your American bretheren, but you want Americans FORCED to give money through transfer of wealth to other Americans, AND illegals! You are a real piece of work, and are anti-American. You are a Marxist, no doubt about it!

 

[imawhosure]

Illegals are at an all time low due to the threat of consequences.

Well that's strange because all I hear from Conservatives is that illegal immigration is so bad, we have to literally build a fucking wall.

So which is it? Is illegal immigration a major problem that requires a $20B wall and 5,000 more BP agents, or is it at an all time low rendering the $20B wall and 5,000 BP agents moot?

Choose a position, please.

Hey incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial one-)

How many people were turned away from getting healthcare? Then why did we need Obamacare?

IC, IC, what you REALLY mean is--------> we all had healthcare, but what you are REALLY providing is--------> AFFORDABLE HEALTH INCURANCE.

So how do YOU provide health insurance for MORE people with the same amount of money? ANSWER---------> YOU CAN NOT! So you want US to pay for those who can't afford it.

Isn't that SOCIALISM/Communism/progressivism/ and NOT Americanism!

 

[Timmy]

Setting aside the disingenuous arguments about its cost and effectiveness, why are you opposed to a physical barrier to illegal immigration across our southern border? Please spare me the histrionics and tell me why we should not maintain our territorial integrity (like every other country in the world).

Disingenuous costs and effectiveness?? Those ARE the two biggest reasons .

This "wall " has to be manned 24:7. Plus the plan is to have drones flying over etc...

You are talking 1200 miles of border in not the most accessible land in the country .

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Illegals are at an all time low due to the threat of consequences.

Well that's strange because all I hear from Conservatives is that illegal immigration is so bad, we have to literally build a fucking wall.

So which is it? Is illegal immigration a major problem that requires a $20B wall and 5,000 more BP agents, or is it at an all time low rendering the $20B wall and 5,000 BP agents moot?

Choose a position, please.

Why do I have to choose from those two positions mate?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

It's a lot cheaper to let non-governmental organizations to shoot a few of them and the rest will quit coming here. Same goes for the invaders already here. Mexicans are cowards, as proven by their meek submission to the Aztecs, Spaniards, and others, all of whom they far outnumbered. In fact, that slavishness is the chief reason our illegitimate ruling class needs these peons to replace us.

Don't be a sissy and be tricked by the high and mighty lowlife preaching "Violence is not the answer" and "That's not the way we are." We lost our way following their way.

 

[Divine Wind]

we are going to be attacked by armor columns from mexico?

Unlikely.