Who supports U.S Occupation in Iraq?

Hi J

Good Answer and much to explore and think about. Thanks.

You might also want to check out the following item on BBC.

1985: Beirut car bomb kills dozens
At least 45 people have died and 175 have been injured in a car bomb explosion in Beirut, Lebanon.
The bomb went off outside a block of flats and close to a mosque as worshippers were gathering for Friday night prayers in a densely populated Shia Muslim suburb......

........Some American press reports said the CIA was behind the attack, which was meant to kill Sheikh Fadlallah. He had been accused of supporting the suicide bombers who killed hundreds of US and French troops in attacks on military headquarters in Beirut in 1983 - a charge he has always denied.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/8/newsid_2516000/2516407.stm

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If what is implied is true, how does it tie in with your view of terrorism?

Another one to consider. The issue of collateral damage.

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Coalition Strike in Afghanistan Kills 9 Children
By Carlotta Gall and John H. Cushman Jr.
New York Times

Sunday 07 December 2003

United States warplanes attacking a suspected member of the Taliban killed nine children in the southeastern province of Ghazni on Saturday, Afghan and American military officials confirmed Sunday morning. One man was also killed in the attack, they said.

In a statement issued early on Sunday from the headquarters of the American-led military forces at Bagram Air Base near Kabul, the military said ground forces searching the area after the attack found the bodies of the children as well as the body of the suspect.

"Coalition forces regret the loss of any innocent life," the statement said. It said the troops remaining in the area "will make every effort to assist the families of the innocent casualties and determine the cause of the civilian deaths."

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Is there a difference? Possibly the terrorist intent to kill and maim instead of doing it incidentally through the bombing of a civilian area in a country to which you do not belong, using a multi million dollar jet.

Incidently, I read in a subsequent article that the dead man was not the suspect.

Atticus
 
One of the greatest disservice popular culture is doing to kids is teaching them that nothing is WORTH fighting, or even dying for.

Hi D.

Absolutely agree.

But I believe you must be absolutely clear that you are fighting the right war in the right country and that you will achieve the right outcome.

Consider 1930s Germany. Did they believe they were fighting the just fight.

Debate and exploration is good.

Atticus
 
1985: Beirut car bomb kills dozens
At least 45 people have died and 175 have been injured in a car bomb explosion in Beirut, Lebanon.
The bomb went off outside a block of flats and close to a mosque as worshippers were gathering for Friday night prayers in a densely populated Shia Muslim suburb......

........Some American press reports said the CIA was behind the attack, which was meant to kill Sheikh Fadlallah. He had been accused of supporting the suicide bombers who killed hundreds of US and French troops in attacks on military headquarters in Beirut in 1983 - a charge he has always denied.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/...000/2516407.stm

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If what is implied is true, how does it tie in with your view of terrorism?

Where are these American press reports? Here is a snippet from the article you linked to:

Sheikh Fadlallah later accused Israel and its "internal allies" of being behind the explosion and he gave a warning to "all those who are playing with fire" that their hands will be "burned by the flames".

This appears to be an obvious terror attack. I see no evidence to blame anyone at this point let alone the CIA.

Another one to consider. The issue of collateral damage.

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Coalition Strike in Afghanistan Kills 9 Children
By Carlotta Gall and John H. Cushman Jr.
New York Times

Sunday 07 December 2003

United States warplanes attacking a suspected member of the Taliban killed nine children in the southeastern province of Ghazni on Saturday, Afghan and American military officials confirmed Sunday morning. One man was also killed in the attack, they said.

In a statement issued early on Sunday from the headquarters of the American-led military forces at Bagram Air Base near Kabul, the military said ground forces searching the area after the attack found the bodies of the children as well as the body of the suspect.

"Coalition forces regret the loss of any innocent life," the statement said. It said the troops remaining in the area "will make every effort to assist the families of the innocent casualties and determine the cause of the civilian deaths."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there a difference? Possibly the terrorist intent to kill and maim instead of doing it incidentally through the bombing of a civilian area in a country to which you do not belong, using a multi million dollar jet.

Incidently, I read in a subsequent article that the dead man was not the suspect.

Unfortunately, innocent people will die in war. These children were obviously not the targets. Comparing incidental death to terrorism is ridiculous. Maybe if these scumbags didn't purposely use civilians as shields a lot of this could have been avoided. Terrorists are cowards. Terrorists deserve to be hunted down and shot in the forehead. End of story.
 
Yo buss dis. This wuz de right war. See what I'm sayin? It wuz in de right country, an shit. Sheeit!
 
Originally posted by Atticus
But I believe you must be absolutely clear that you are fighting the right war in the right country and that you will achieve the right outcome.

Consider 1930s Germany. Did they believe they were fighting the just fight.

Debate and exploration is good.

Atticus

Like I stated earlier, the USA is CRYSTAL CLEAR that we are fighting the right war. There is nothing unclear about wanting to rid the world of terrorists and terrorist regimes.
 
Originally posted by dmp
Okay...last time...

Freedom Fighter =

rd010.JPG




so, palestinians who bomb israeli military targets (soldiers at checkpoints) are freedom fighters trying to protect palestine, right?
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
so, palestinians who bomb israeli military targets (soldiers at checkpoints) are freedom fighters trying to protect palestine, right?


Yeah - They are fighting for a stupid cause...those who bomb CIVILIAN targets, however, are terrorists.
 
Well I am on a different time zone and must go.

It has been an interesting insight into the USA perspective and has provided food for thought although at times a little scary.

I will leave you with this thought.

My father was killed in a terrorist attack in the 70's in Northern Ireland. I spent much of my life closely watching the situation there and trying to understand why terrorism existed.

There are many and complex reasons for terrorism and when I see USA and UK acting as they are doing, based on everything I observed over thirty studied years, these actions are guaranteed to increase the numbers of terrorists and thus the threat.

As an example the Iraqi army. One of the largest armies in the middle east now unemployed with weapons and military training and a hatred of western society. Regretably todays sad news again confirms this.

They say the devil makes work for idle hands. What happens when you add high explosives and training.

You cannot put this fire out with gasoline.

Kind Regards.

Goodbye.

Oh and have you tried anger management?

Atticus
 
Originally posted by Atticus
Well I am on a different time zone and must go.

It has been an interesting insight into the USA perspective and has provided food for thought although at times a little scary.

I will leave you with this thought.

My father was killed in a terrorist attack in the 70's in Northern Ireland. I spent much of my life closely watching the situation there and trying to understand why terrorism existed.

There are many and complex reasons for terrorism and when I see USA and UK acting as they are doing, based on everything I observed over thirty studied years, these actions are guaranteed to increase the numbers of terrorists and thus the threat.

As an example the Iraqi army. One of the largest armies in the middle east now unemployed with weapons and military training and a hatred of western society. Regretably todays sad news again confirms this.

They say the devil makes work for idle hands. What happens when you add high explosives and training.

You cannot put this fire out with gasoline.

Kind Regards.

Goodbye.

Oh and have you tried anger management?

Atticus

Atticus, by your own understanding of terrorism and how these actions need to be encouraged or condemned, how do you view the American Revolutionary War?
 
There are many and complex reasons for terrorism and when I see USA and UK acting as they are doing, based on everything I observed over thirty studied years, these actions are guaranteed to increase the numbers of terrorists and thus the threat.

Can you explain to me how you came up with this "guarantee"?

As an example the Iraqi army. One of the largest armies in the middle east now unemployed with weapons and military training and a hatred of western society. Regretably todays sad news again confirms this.

If you read the news you would know that many of these soldiers are now employed as Iraqi police. Can you cite anything to show regular soldiers from the Iraqi army now want to go after western interests?

Oh and have you tried anger management?

Yes! Everytime I hear about another terrorist dying I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. The US military is my anger management! :D
 
I never understood the concept of NOT attacking one's enemies for fear of them attacking back.

(shrug).
 
Originally posted by dmp
I never understood the concept of NOT attacking one's enemies for fear of them attacking back.

(shrug).

I used to think that way when I was in school.

Then I got beat up a few times and realized it wasn't working.

Lack of real world experience makes utopia seem like the best way sometimes when, in fact, theory is different than reality.

Maybe the EU in general needs a whole lot more in the way of terrorism to understand reality.

-Of course they won't get to that point because some guy from Rome will come out with a peace plan for the middle east before then and cut a 7 year deal first.
 
Originally posted by NewGuy


-Of course they won't get to that point because some guy from Rome will come out with a peace plan for the middle east before then and cut a 7 year deal first.


HAH....Touche!

:)
 
Originally posted by Atticus
why do you believe the US has the moral right to invade another country

Who said anything about moral rights? We had the desire, the will, and the ability.

I am sorry have to say it Z but I can't help imagining these words coming from the mouth of a German during the 1930s rather than a US citizen at the start of 21st century.

The point is no one said we had the moral right to invade another country. Your question was a non sequitar. I then explained what we did have.

The real question is at any rate, was it the sensible thing to do?

I believe it was.
 
i didn't support it from the beginning, but now i see that we have to, in fact, BOLSTER our prescence there. any withdrawl at this point is going to bring ruin to any headway we've made so far.

in response to jim's comment about there are 'literally hundreds' of good things that have come from the iraq invasion and occupation, there are literally THOUSANDS of bad things that have come of it, and today just a few more tacked onto that.

we were seeking to achieve what? to oust saddam. we did that. i would say that in itself was a good thing.

we were also looking to stymie terrorism. we haven't even come close to succeeding on the level that brings ACTUAL, REAL SECURITY. now nobody can PROVE either way if more or less terror is going to come from what the current US admin has decided to impose on the global community by invading iraq, but my guess is that it hasn't helped anything, but in fact, generated only more animosity.

you can see from this picture, the iraqi kid isn't all that bothered about this horrific, animalistic action:

iraqis%20drag%20bodies.jpg


SICKENING. i would personally speak out against this crap if i were there, but then again, i'd probably be targeted myself! now while i'm all for rooting out terror wherever it may breed, i just don't see much of an improvement on the situation in iraq. not too many celebrations basking in the joy of liberation on it's anniversary, now was there?

the US needs a different approach on this 'war on terror'. first, there needs to be an international coalition that is dedicated- with a more balanced ratio- to stopping terrorists and work to establish trust and cohesion amongst the iraqi people. if this can't happen, then break iraq into three regions. i'm not sure how haliburton or otherwise plans to maintain their industry there, let alone international investors, but we are not getting anywhere in iraq.

even with an interin constitution, who's to say that this 'democracy' will fly? judging by the current grisly (practically everyday) indications, it's tough for me to picture.

i don't care if it were bush that made it happen, or even if we needed more of an international prescence to MAKE IT HAPPEN. we are in waist deep, and there is no turning back now. let's just hope we ALL LEARN FROM THIS, NO??!!

and while i don't agree with the way we've gone about it, i can say i share the perspective with most of the people on the board as in i would love to see it happen. i'm just not finding to many reasons to be optimistic. :( i acknowledged that our efforts to stop terror here in the US are highly comendable. and i am very thankful for that. but all i see in iraq is DEATH with no end in sight.
 
Good post, Spilly. I don't agree with every aspect but you make some fairly good points. I'm just sickened to see this kind of shit going on over there. I'm quite confident these scumbags don't represent Iraq as a whole. Regardless, I too hope they bolster our efforts over there. I can't say I have the answers because I don't. I just know Saddam was a scumbag of the worst kind and needed to go. Terrorists need to be dealt with in some fashion. The insurgents need to be kept under control. And any more of these sick bastards that even think about doing this shit to our citizens need to be shot on the spot, civilian or not. I wish I was there myself, I would have personally killed at least 20 of them lowlifes.

WIth that said, let's not forget that THERE IS some good coming out of Iraq, and plenty of it.
 

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