Who was the worst traitor in U.S. history?

[TheIceMan]

That and they didn't want to pay White, who in Texas V White 1868 wanted US dollars for his Confederate ones.

 

[Unkotare]

They justified their actions by law. Nothing you've got can argue with that.

History argues with that, actual written law argues with that, and the US Supreme Court argues with that. Go find another windmill, Quixote.

Incorrect. As previously pointed out, only an after the fact Supreme Court ruling made secession illegal to cover their butts. Then they backdated it.

Up to that point, no legal wording made secession illegal, and in fact, the CSA were not the first to threaten it. They were the first to try an carry it out.

In both cases, the military victors decided who was "right" and who was "wrong". Had nothing to do with actually being in the right.

Seems you missed a few posts. Go back and read again. Your little attempt at revisionism is falling apart on you.

 

[Unkotare]

History argues with that, actual written law argues with that, and the US Supreme Court argues with that. Go find another windmill, Quixote.

Incorrect. As previously pointed out, only an after the fact Supreme Court ruling made secession illegal to cover their butts. Then they backdated it.

Up to that point, no legal wording made secession illegal, and in fact, the CSA were not the first to threaten it. They were the first to try an carry it out.

In both cases, the military victors decided who was "right" and who was "wrong". Had nothing to do with actually being in the right.

The SC was packed with a majority of Radical Republican appointees. The decision was guaranteed before it ever reached the court.

It's funniest when the wannabe rebs' argument falls apart and they start dancing and spinning faster and faster to try and hold it together. It's like they are trying oh-so-hard to hold water in their bitter little hands.

 

[TheIceMan]

History argues with that, actual written law argues with that, and the US Supreme Court argues with that. Go find another windmill, Quixote.

Incorrect. As previously pointed out, only an after the fact Supreme Court ruling made secession illegal to cover their butts. Then they backdated it.

Up to that point, no legal wording made secession illegal, and in fact, the CSA were not the first to threaten it. They were the first to try an carry it out.

In both cases, the military victors decided who was "right" and who was "wrong". Had nothing to do with actually being in the right.

Seems you missed a few posts. Go back and read again. Your little attempt at revisionism is falling apart on you.

I'm revising nothing. Neither am I going to continue to pursue a circular argument. I am as historically correct as you believe you are. We aren't getting past that.

Enjoy.

 

[Indofred]

A traitor, in this case, would be some who betrayed America, thus its people.
One has to consider pointless wars that have killed a lot of Americans for stupid political ideals or gain by oil and arms companies.
If a president causing the deaths of thousands of his own people is the act of a traitor, you have a few people to think about.
Bush has to be well up the list, who else?

 

[Unkotare]

I am as historically correct as you believe you are. We aren't getting past that.

Enjoy.

You are not correct, you are merely (for whatever strange reason) emotionally vested in defending those who, in the name of perpetuating evil, wrought much death and destruction on our country. Fortunately, the traitors lost and the Union prevailed. You should be very grateful.

 

[TheIceMan]

I am as historically correct as you believe you are. We aren't getting past that.

Enjoy.

You are not correct, you are merely (for whatever strange reason) emotionally vested in defending those who, in the name of perpetuating evil, wrought much death and destruction on our country. Fortunately, the traitors lost and the Union prevailed. You should be very grateful.

Who's emotionally invested? Seems to me you're the one that's all giddy that the Union won and I should be happy.

Try addressing the topic. The Founding Father's committed treason against their King. The CSA legally left a union they voluntarily joined.

Going off on a tangent into left field does not an argument make.

So, I bid you adieu. Feel free to live in your own little fantasy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Who was the worst traitor in history: was it Bowe Bergdahl?

 

[S.J.]

Who was the worst traitor in history: was it Bowe Bergdahl?

No, it's the Kenyan bastard that released 5 terrorists to get him back.

 

[Crystalclear]

Who was the worst traitor in history: was it Bowe Bergdahl?

No, it's the Kenyan bastard that released 5 terrorists to get him back.

No, a president that let an American who fought for his country die abroad is a worse president.

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, a president that let an American who fought for his country die abroad is a worse president.

You're clear on the fact that Bergdahl deserted, right Comrade? We used to SHOOT people who did what Bergdahl did, not release known terrorists to bring them home...

 

[Unkotare]

So, I bid you adieu.

I don't blame you for tucking tail and running. The traitors of the confederacy eventually knew when it was time to quit as well.

 

[TheIceMan]

So, I bid you adieu.

I don't blame you for tucking tail and running. The traitors of the confederacy eventually knew when it was time to quit as well.

You are meaningless to me. So is your revisionist history. So indoctrinated the truth zooms over your head.

I'll debate with people who can think, not automatons spouting rhetoric.

I don't run from a fucking thing. Nor do I waste my time beating my head against a brick wall. Been there, done that. Doesn't work.

Maybe you'll grow up someday too.

 

[Rogue 9]

Kevin has already elaborated.

Why do you think we were named "The United States Of America?" Was it because George Washington established an empire where once colonies had stood? Trading the central authority of the British Crown for the central authority of Washington? Or was it that 13 autonomous states, each with an independent government, elected from the people therein, formed a voluntary union for common defense and to arbitrate disputes of trade?

Because, IF this were a union, than any member can leave at any time. If it is an empire, then the sovereign will bring force of arms and call the attempt of people to govern themselves "treason" and "sedition."

Its basically a fairly simple concept. And the constitution makes absolutely no provision for secession. Marty is completely correct in all of his points.

Why doesn't the 10th Amendment apply to secession?

Because it says this:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

But Article IV says this:

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States

So defining the borders of the United States is delegated to the Congress, which means the Tenth Amendment does not cover it.

No, a president that let an American who fought for his country die abroad is a worse president.

You're clear on the fact that Bergdahl deserted, right Comrade? We used to SHOOT people who did what Bergdahl did, not release known terrorists to bring them home...

You're clear on the fact that we give people trials before convicting them of crimes, right? The United States has made prisoner exchanges before for soldiers that we then tried for crimes when we got them back; you still don't abandon them to the enemy.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't run from a fucking thing.

Oh, sorry. I guess you just crawl away on your belly like a beaten dog, the way the confederate traitors finally had to. It was laudable that the average foot soldier from the South was shown respect and given a second chance. It was well-intentioned but perhaps overly magnanimous that the leaders of the traitorous rebellion for the most part did not end up with longer necks.


Keep crawling until you find someone who will buy your revisionist bullshit, wannabe-reb.

 

[Unkotare]

You're clear on the fact that we give people trials before convicting them of crimes, right?

Unless you're obama playing 'Pong' with killer drones, right?

 

[Rogue 9]

You're clear on the fact that we give people trials before convicting them of crimes, right?

Unless you're obama playing 'Pong' with killer drones, right?

Not to defend the behavior, but they weren't convicted as such. "Don't exchange for him because he's a deserter!" depends on assuming a criminal conviction - and that this conviction justifies leaving him with the Taliban rather than administering the prescribed punishment by our own hands, which is cowardly at best. Taking potshots at enemy combatants and leaders in a war zone is hardly that, though the haphazard approach is scandalous in itself - but not for the same reason.

 

[Unkotare]

Chilling legal memo from Obama DOJ justifies assassination of US citizens | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | theguardian.com

 

[TheIceMan]

Chilling legal memo from Obama DOJ justifies assassination of US citizens | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | theguardian.com

A legal memo from the Obama administration. Wow. Is this deflection supposed to support your losing history argument? A "chilling legal meom" from a proven liar.

Would you like to borrow an extra shovel and one of my apprentices to help you dig that hole, or what?

 

[Unkotare]

Chilling legal memo from Obama DOJ justifies assassination of US citizens | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | theguardian.com

A legal memo from the Obama administration. Wow. Is this deflection supposed to support your losing history argument?

You already declared surrender on that 'argument,' wannabe-reb. Crawl along now, loser.