Why an atheist

[Fort Fun Indiana]

the hell is better secular morality?

Morality derived from facts and reason, as opposed to dictated by a book of iron age mythology cobbled together by terrified, superstitious, ignorant, illiterate people.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Morality derived from facts and reason, as opposed to dictated by a book of iron age mythology cobbled together by terrified, superstitious, ignorant, illiterate people.

You really think humans in power worry about facts and reason? And you want the politicians to have even more power........at what point do you try to be serious? It's hilarious when you try to characterize christians like that.......christians who believ in things like reason and science......unlike lefties that politicize everything and force people to take a vax or be fired.....Talk about superstitious and ignorant, looke at people like Chomsky.......you are hilarious.......and don't even know what you're talking about.....
But I still don't see how reasoned people like Stalin killed millions for politics.......or Mao........great guys and not christians.......

 

[BreezeWood]

What the hell is better secular morality? Again, if you trust humans to make the right decisions, you're an idiot. Without God, there is no mercy, there is no right and wrong, it's just whatever you want, it's hedonism.......it's not a good thing.
Humans have made lots of killing legal, less than 100 years ago we had Nazis killing jews, gypsies, and the people that helped them. Commies were intentionally starving people to death......all based on politics.........and I didn't see The people doing it get arrested or even condemned by their leaders.......hmmmmmm..........why would that be?

... to even the score with the tyrannical desert religions.

 

[buckeye45_73]

... to even the score with the tyrannical desert religions.

LOL, that may be true, but Mr Atheist is telling me humans are good and can be trusted to be moral.......it's pretty funny how naieve some people are.

 

[BreezeWood]

Morality derived from facts and reason, as opposed to dictated by a book of iron age mythology cobbled together by terrified, superstitious, ignorant, illiterate people.

what book of mythology is that ff a work of mythological polytheism drugged by sin worship - prove your point. or maybe you are referring to the crucifiers and their 4th century c bible -

what makes you think you have described those people by your claim either, common thugs and murderers.

 

[BreezeWood]

LOL, that may be true, but Mr Atheist is telling me humans are good and can be trusted to be moral.......it's pretty funny how naieve some people are.

not sure he's saying that for either the religious or secular the difference being a goal for admission to the Everlasting for who triumphs in purity, good vs evil to set free their spirit to live into the next level.

 

[buckeye45_73]

not sure he's saying that for either the religious or secular the difference being a goal for admission to the Everlasting for who triumphs in purity, good vs evil to set free their spirit to live into the next level.

No we were having a conversation on morality. I said without God, who determines morality, he said people can......and I'm like uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......have you seen people and what they have done to others.........
LEfties think people can just make things better.....it doesnt work that way. It's why republicans, who hate government to the core, understand you NEED it.....becasue humans can not be moral......they need help.......the problem is without God then you can make things like killing or slavery legal......and while believers did try to use the Bible to justify some of those things, it was also beleivers that ended them. Believers ended slavery (Abolitionists were big time christians) and they ended things like human sacrifice (we had Jesus, no need for that)

 

[Grumblenuts]

LEfties think

Fine admission.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You really think humans in power worry about facts and reason?

Non sequitur. I never stated or implied anything like that.

It's our entire society, and the codes we make. Yes, they are far superior to the primitive attempts that relied on our first and worst attempts at ethics and morality that are the iron age mythologies.

 

[Michelle420]

The unforgivable sin

 

[BreezeWood]

Non sequitur. I never stated or implied anything like that.

It's our entire society, and the codes we make. Yes, they are far superior to the primitive attempts that relied on our first and worst attempts at ethics and morality that are the iron age mythologies.

the desert religions are not mythological you should learn to speak for yourself.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Non sequitur. I never stated or implied anything like that.

It's our entire society, and the codes we make. Yes, they are far superior to the primitive attempts that relied on our first and worst attempts at ethics and morality that are the iron age mythologies.

Well OUR codes are based on what you call a primitive religion. And many of the horrors of society are also gone becasue of it. The Spanish didn't look in horror at Aztec human sacrifice because of the enlightenment (which was very religious in nature ironically), but because of their religious values.
So yeah and 400-500 years later, you had Nazis and Commies committing the worst atrocities known to man.........with all their enlightenment and knowledge.......why is that?

 

[Grumblenuts]

What the hell is better secular morality? Again, if you trust humans to make the right decisions, you're an idiot. Without God, there is no mercy, there is no right and wrong, it's just whatever you want, it's hedonism.......it's not a good thing.

So you never trust anyone, eh? Administrators, doctors, professors, plumbers.. until they pass a religious test? Oh, sure sure.. Like it or not, we mere "humans" have decided everything we've been dealing with our entire lives. Who else has really been around to make "the right decisions" for us? Gee, let's look.. Is He hiding under the table? Nope, no weapons of mass delusion there!

We have to rely upon each other while appreciating that there are no guarantees in life other than death and taxes. That's why we're vastly built to do just that as adults. Retain a healthy mix of empathy and caution. Trust but verify. Life's constant struggle. In reality, there's never been any alternative. "Sociopath" is the term for those truly believing otherwise.

 

[buckeye45_73]

So you never trust anyone, eh? Administrators, doctors, professors, plumbers.. until they pass a religious test? Oh, sure sure.. Like it or not, we mere "humans" have decided everything we've been dealing with our entire lives. Who else has really been around to make "the right decisions" for us? Gee, let's look.. Is He hiding under the table? Nope, no weapons of mass delusion there!

We have to rely upon each other while appreciating that there are no guarantees in life other than death and taxes. That's why we're vastly built to do just that as adults. Retain a healthy mix of empathy and caution. Trust but verify. Life's constant struggle. In reality, there's never been any alternative. "Sociopath" is the term for those truly believing otherwise.

What? That has nothing to do with our discussion. Sure you trust people, but that's not the same as letting people decided ultimate morality. You have right now people advocating killing or letting unvaccinated people die, for the crime of not taking a vaccine for a disease that has a 99% survival rate, that is the way people work. Its also the reason you need a government, the police and courts are the number one reason a government exists....to stop people from killing, raping and hurting others....it has not nor will it ever change.

 

[Meriweather]

Sure you trust people

Absolutely. However, the reason not to rely on people centers on people can be bought off. Especially people in government. God is the ideal, and God (or the ideal if a non-believer) cannot be bought off. People, on the other hand, often settle for good enough. As one of my favorite sayings points out, "Good enough never is." Yet that is what people/government do. We settle, even search, for what is good enough, when we are capable of reaching for--and attaining--much more.

 

[Grumblenuts]

What? That has nothing to do with our discussion. Sure you trust people, but that's not the same as letting people decided ultimate morality.

Whoa, "ultimate" reality!

God is the ideal, and God (or the ideal if a non-believer) cannot be bought off.

Ah, so "God" is superfluous. Really "has nothing to do with our discussion."

We hold these truths to be self-evident, {..blah, blah, blah..} Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Whoa, "ultimate" reality!

Ah, so "God" is superfluous. Really "has nothing to do with our discussion."

No, trusting a doctor has nothing to do with God. I can't wait for your take on how it does.......

 

[Grumblenuts]

trusting a doctor has

everything to do with

Again, if you trust humans to make the right decisions, you're an idiot.

bucko!

 

[Meriweather]

Ah, so "God" is superfluous. Really "has nothing to do with our discussion."

Many atheists in my family, and to them, God is superfluous. They, however, are not and neither are you, especially in this discussion. For some 'God' is a distraction in any discussion; some are carrying too much baggage when it comes to God. Another quote: Cannot see the forest for the trees--i.e., cannot see the main issue (God) for the baggage being carried around when it comes to God.

The many who have experienced God know exactly what I am saying. Those who have not experienced God need another reference to follow the discussion and what we are saying. And that's fine, too. No big deal.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Many atheists in my family, and to them, God is superfluous. They, however, are not and neither are you, especially in this discussion.

Geez, I thought the topic was "Why an atheist" -- "I can't wait for your take on" what you think it really is..?