CDZ Why are anti gunners so open all of a sudden about banning guns?

[JoeB131]

so then why did you not say the same thing for the 1st half?...or maybe the 2nd part doesnt read the way you want it to...

The thing is, I don't really care how the gun nuts have interpretted the second part...

For most of our history, it's been accepted that the first part gave government the right to regulate guns. Until the Gun Industry decided that common sense gun laws were impeding on their ability to profit off of death and misery.

The idea that crazy person has a right to a gun as clear as his right to believe in an imaginary sky being is plain nuts...

 

[2aguy]

I grew up with rifles and pistols. Obviously I am not "anti-gun." The question is why anyone wants an automatic weapon and who do they intend to point it at. Those who insist on wanting to own them do not explain these things. Absent any cogent explanation for wanting to inflict these weapons on general society, we must assume that they have an evil motivation that society must protect itself against.

It's really difficult to get an automatic weapon.

I hope that it is. I am flummoxed as to why anyone in the U.S. wants one and what for. We are pretty safe here. I can't see where an invading army, if there was one, could in modern times get to a nation that spans an entire continent and produce a hand-to-hand combat situation that would mandate the use of these weapons. The British invasion of 1812 seems to have been the last time that there was such a possibility of this.

Keep in mind this.....in Mexico...the Mexican government is not attacking it's people in an organized way....but elements of the police and the military are working with the drug cartels and murdering 10s of thousands of Mexican citizens every single year......people the Mexican government disarmed and cannot, or will not protect.....

The drug cartels are not using AR-15 civilian rifles....they are using fully automatic military rifles that they get from Europe and China or from the Mexican military.....

That is why we need the same weapons as the police and military soldier.......when the police and military have better rifles than the civilians, you get that sort of behavior in places the government can't or won't protect....

 

[2aguy]

so then why did you not say the same thing for the 1st half?...or maybe the 2nd part doesnt read the way you want it to...

The thing is, I don't really care how the gun nuts have interpretted the second part...

For most of our history, it's been accepted that the first part gave government the right to regulate guns. Until the Gun Industry decided that common sense gun laws were impeding on their ability to profit off of death and misery.

The idea that crazy person has a right to a gun as clear as his right to believe in an imaginary sky being is plain nuts...

No..not even close...I know you haven't read Heller, where that idea was shown to be stupid....as Scalia went through our entire history......you don't know what you are talking about, it has always been an individual Right.

 

[Harry Dresden]

so then why did you not say the same thing for the 1st half?...or maybe the 2nd part doesnt read the way you want it to...

The thing is, I don't really care how the gun nuts have interpretted the second part...

For most of our history, it's been accepted that the first part gave government the right to regulate guns. Until the Gun Industry decided that common sense gun laws were impeding on their ability to profit off of death and misery.

The idea that crazy person has a right to a gun as clear as his right to believe in an imaginary sky being is plain nuts...

nice dance joe......like i asked....who are the people mentioned and what does shall not infringe mean?...you can avoid answering joe but thats the way the thing is written and its pretty clear what it means,if you and you other anti-gun nutters dont like it,get it changed.....until then it means guns are going to be around...

 

[JoeB131]

No..not even close...I know you haven't read Heller, where that idea was shown to be stupid....as Scalia went through our entire history......you don't know what you are talking about, it has always been an individual Right.

Heller was an awful decision, and Scalia was a hack...

but the simple way to resolve all this is to pass an amendment allowing gun regulation.

Easy-peasy. Then we don't have to have this silly argument about what a slave owner thought was an appropriate weapon.

 

[JoeB131]

nice dance joe......like i asked....who are the people mentioned and what does shall not infringe mean?...you can avoid answering joe but thats the way the thing is written and its pretty clear what it means,if you and you other anti-gun nutters dont like it,get it changed.....until then it means guns are going to be around...

Um, no, actually, I think we are going to have common sense gun control a lot sooner than you guys think.

The REAL owners of America, big corporations, are getting tired of your nonsense.

So, um, horray Plutocracy, I guess.

 

[Harry Dresden]

nice dance joe......like i asked....who are the people mentioned and what does shall not infringe mean?...you can avoid answering joe but thats the way the thing is written and its pretty clear what it means,if you and you other anti-gun nutters dont like it,get it changed.....until then it means guns are going to be around...

Um, no, actually, I think we are going to have common sense gun control a lot sooner than you guys think.

The REAL owners of America, big corporations, are getting tired of your nonsense.

So, um, horray Plutocracy, I guess.

they are getting tired of yours too....and im not one of "those guys" Joe,i am not scared of common sense gun control as long as its common sense agreed upon by both sides,not just one side....

 

[EGR one]

I never answer polls about guns.

doesn't matter. The numbers are pretty accurate.

Here's the thing.

At some point, we went from my dad's generation, that hunted for food, to the generation that hunted for fun, to a generation that watched Bambi too many times and realized that hunting, for the most part, is kind of sadistic.

So the gun makers, realizing that they were looking at a declining market, decided that they needed to create a new one, and the new one is scared little people.

ANd how do you keep people scared? Make it easy for people who shouldn't have guns to get them.

Except people are saying "enough".

In 1941, anyone who had the money and the desire to purchase a weapon could go down to the local drug store and purchase one. The NRA and gun manufacturers were alive and well. Obviously, we have more restrictions on who can own and carry guns than they did then,

What is also obvious is that none of the restrictions on who can own and/or carry guns has had any effect on keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have guns. Why is that? Because the idiot class keeps political attention on guns, and not the people who shouldn't have guns. Kind of like preventing drunk drivers by limiting the types of vehicles they can drive.

 

[EGR one]

I grew up with rifles and pistols. Obviously I am not "anti-gun." The question is why anyone wants an automatic weapon and who do they intend to point it at. Those who insist on wanting to own them do not explain these things. Absent any cogent explanation for wanting to inflict these weapons on general society, we must assume that they have an evil motivation that society must protect itself against.

Your assumptions are pure paranoia. Automatic weapons are, and have been, restricted from the general public for many years. Obviously, you have little to fear from anyone's desire to own one.

Semi-automatic guns have been around since before you and I were born. A whole lot of people own them, many people carry them, and they are no more a danger today, than they were when you and I grew up with rifles and pistols.

What you should concern yourself about are the evil motivations of the anti-gun crowd. Why are they so insistent that law abiding Americans give up their guns?

 

[EGR one]

so then why did you not say the same thing for the 1st half?...or maybe the 2nd part doesnt read the way you want it to...

The thing is, I don't really care how the gun nuts have interpretted the second part...

For most of our history, it's been accepted that the first part gave government the right to regulate guns. Until the Gun Industry decided that common sense gun laws were impeding on their ability to profit off of death and misery.

The idea that crazy person has a right to a gun as clear as his right to believe in an imaginary sky being is plain nuts...

We are all crazy persons, it is just that some are more crazy than others. What is crazy is to believe that all the "common sense" gun laws that have been enacted have made us safer from crazy people with guns. What is also crazy is believing that the American gun culture is some evil conspiracy concocted by gun manufactures and the NRA.

The odds of any of us being killed by a crazy with a gun are far less than the odds of us being mowed down in a crosswalk by a drunken, illegal alien in a pickup truck.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You have no clue if those numbers are accurate or not

Um, yeah, except surveys keep finding the same trends...

maybe for that militia.....so you dont comment on the second half?.... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.....who are those people?...and what does "shall not be infringed" mean?...

Honestly, don't care. I throw that in there with the third Amendment... it was something they were upset about (gun confiscation) that has no relevance to our modern age. Kind of like the third amendment and quartering troops in people's houses.

There is no good reason for an average citizen to own a gun, but if you must absolutely have one, then it should be "well-regulated".

Or we can just get into the 21st century like the rest of the world and ban them.

So people are lying about owning guns as much as they always have

And you do not have the right to tell me what I need.

 

[JoeB131]

they are getting tired of yours too....and im not one of "those guys" Joe,i am not scared of common sense gun control as long as its common sense agreed upon by both sides,not just one side....

Yeah, here's the thing. THe gun fetishist are never going to agree to anything.

Here's what I'd consider a good compromise position.

You can own a gun if you
1) Undergo a thorough background investigation (not a check)
2) Get licensed by your state (different licenses for different types of weapons. An AR-15 license should be hard to get.)
3) Mandetory training to make sure you are proficient in the use and operation of the weapon.
4) Liability insurance.

Not unlike what we require if you own, let's say, a car.

Now, try going to someone like 2AGuy or Skull and say, "Hey, Joe's given a little, why don't you?"

Nope. You'll get a speech about how Hitler took the guns and the Founding fathers and who knows what else.

 

[JoeB131]

So people are lying about owning guns as much as they always have

And you do not have the right to tell me what I need.

When your hobby kills 33,000 of us a year, we do have a say.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So people are lying about owning guns as much as they always have

And you do not have the right to tell me what I need.

When your hobby kills 33,000 of us a year, we do have a say.

My hobby doesn't kill anyone and hasn't in the over 3 decades that I have been shooting

 

[JoeB131]

We are all crazy persons, it is just that some are more crazy than others. What is crazy is to believe that all the "common sense" gun laws that have been enacted have made us safer from crazy people with guns. What is also crazy is believing that the American gun culture is some evil conspiracy concocted by gun manufactures and the NRA.

Conspiracy would indicate that they've done it in secret. They've pretty much done it out in the open.

Common sense gun laws work just fine. Japan had 11 gun homicides in 2011, the last year we have figures for.

We had 11,000.

The odds of any of us being killed by a crazy with a gun are far less than the odds of us being mowed down in a crosswalk by a drunken, illegal alien in a pickup truck.

Um, not really.

11,000 gun homicides a year.

I'm sure people killed by undocumented workers in traffic accidents are nowhere near that.

 

[Lysistrata]

I grew up with rifles and pistols. Obviously I am not "anti-gun." The question is why anyone wants an automatic weapon and who do they intend to point it at. Those who insist on wanting to own them do not explain these things. Absent any cogent explanation for wanting to inflict these weapons on general society, we must assume that they have an evil motivation that society must protect itself against.

It's really difficult to get an automatic weapon.

I hope that it is. I am flummoxed as to why anyone in the U.S. wants one and what for. We are pretty safe here. I can't see where an invading army, if there was one, could in modern times get to a nation that spans an entire continent and produce a hand-to-hand combat situation that would mandate the use of these weapons. The British invasion of 1812 seems to have been the last time that there was such a possibility of this.

It's not so much for invading armies as it is to protect us from a tyrannical government.

What a ridiculous theory. It is inconsistent with the history of the Second Amendment at all, which obviously sought to strengthen the defenses of the new fledgling government.

The whore in the Oval Office has installed a tyrannical government here, now, present day. What are we supposed to do about it? Shoot them all and hang them upside down like Mussolini? Is this what you contend is appropriate?

 

[Harry Dresden]

they are getting tired of yours too....and im not one of "those guys" Joe,i am not scared of common sense gun control as long as its common sense agreed upon by both sides,not just one side....

Yeah, here's the thing. THe gun fetishist are never going to agree to anything.

Here's what I'd consider a good compromise position.

You can own a gun if you
1) Undergo a thorough background investigation (not a check)
2) Get licensed by your state (different licenses for different types of weapons. An AR-15 license should be hard to get.)
3) Mandetory training to make sure you are proficient in the use and operation of the weapon.
4) Liability insurance.

Not unlike what we require if you own, let's say, a car.

Now, try going to someone like 2AGuy or Skull and say, "Hey, Joe's given a little, why don't you?"

Nope. You'll get a speech about how Hitler took the guns and the Founding fathers and who knows what else.

THe gun fetishist are never going to agree to anything.
and neither are the anti gun fetishist....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I grew up with rifles and pistols. Obviously I am not "anti-gun." The question is why anyone wants an automatic weapon and who do they intend to point it at. Those who insist on wanting to own them do not explain these things. Absent any cogent explanation for wanting to inflict these weapons on general society, we must assume that they have an evil motivation that society must protect itself against.

It's really difficult to get an automatic weapon.

I hope that it is. I am flummoxed as to why anyone in the U.S. wants one and what for. We are pretty safe here. I can't see where an invading army, if there was one, could in modern times get to a nation that spans an entire continent and produce a hand-to-hand combat situation that would mandate the use of these weapons. The British invasion of 1812 seems to have been the last time that there was such a possibility of this.

It's not so much for invading armies as it is to protect us from a tyrannical government.

What a ridiculous theory. It is inconsistent with the history of the Second Amendment at all, which obviously sought to strengthen the defenses of the new fledgling government.

The whore in the Oval Office has installed a tyrannical government here, now, present day. What are we supposed to do about it? Shoot them all and hang them upside down like Mussolini? Is this what you contend is appropriate?

Oh bullshit.
Thats why we have the 2nd. Educate yourself.

 

[Soupnazi630]

One more time, why would any of this be a bad thing?

Do you have a better argument than "The Founding Slave Owners Said I can have any gun I want if you read it the right way"?

One more time it is not just what the founders wanted it is a horrible thing.

Tyranny happens when the government has all the power and taking away guns is strictly and absolutely a power grab designed to make people weak and then to oppress them.

It is not coincidence that the UK banned all guns and now locks people up for thought crime.

First the second amendment and the others which the second protects.

Maybe that is the dystopian world you want but most disagree.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I think that the anti gunners believe they have a shot at ending the 2nd Amendment, and that is why they feel free to be honest about what they want...banning all semi automatic guns...that would include semi automatic rifles, pistols, ( including revolvers) and shotguns.....which would end concealed and open carry as well.

Why do they think they have a shot at ending the 2nd Amendment....?

They think the democrats will get control of the House in 2018.

If that happens they will immediately impeach Trump. They also think that with their Never Trump republican allies, they can bully the cowardly moderate Rebublicans in the Senate to actually remove him from office.....and Pence, having been Trump's guy, will be powerless as he fills out Trump's last years.

That is what they hope.

At a minimum, by impeaching Trump they think they will then have the juice to block any new appointments, especially to the Supreme Court, using their Never Trump allies and bullying moderate Republican cowards to go along with it.....

That means if ginsburg and kennedy retire or die, he won't be able to put real Justices on the court, and if Justice Thomas retires or dies, he won't be able to keep the status quo on the court.....and they think they will be able to elect a democrat as President, who will then be the one shaping the court for the next 30 years....

If that happens....the 2nd Amendment will be nothing but ink on paper, just as it is in Mexico.

They will vote on the 4th Circuit Court of appeals ban on Assault weapons, which will ban all semi auto weapons, and they will use the courts to sue gun makers into submission.

That is why the democrats are openly calling for a ban on semi automatic weapons.......which is essentially almost every gun in the country....

1. House can impeach all they want but will lack the votes in the Senate to convict.

Also what will they impeach Trump for?

2. Repeal of the Second Amendment will take the Senate and again they lack the votes while also lacking the States to approval a new Amendment.

3. As for appointments to the USSC I believe Trump is smart enough to mess with Democrats and get a sleeper through on them.

So as you might believe the left has momentum I believe this wedge issue help Republicans more than Democrats in November.

Also even if Democrats are able to win the House the issue will be winning the Seante and even if possible they will have a slight majority which mean they need Red State Republicans and boy if they believe things were hostile then they are in a rude awakening!